Undercarders, Jobbers & The Unused: Who deserves the push?

[Viola Moonlight]

A while back, there was a thread dedicated to the midcarders where someone posed the question: "Who deserves the push into the main event scene for a title run?" Now that the WWE have started to pay attention to the midcard area by giving us more Main Event caliber superstars vs. Midcard talent to push them into at least the uppermidcarder, this got me thinking. If there is going to be a revitalisation of talent shifting into the talent categories, the WWE is going to lack in the area of midcard talent. The WWE must use the superstar initiative & the current talent they have to be pushed into the midcard scene to cover for the losses.

From their rosters, I have compiled a list of those who fall into the "Other" category of the WWE. I have discounted the ECW roster as it comprises of veterans who are helping the new talent from the superstar initative to become future WWE superstars, so their roles are justified since everyone is basically getting TV time. These are the superstars off the top of my head that I would deem as an "Other" without any relative direction. If I have missed/placed someone who doesn't deserved to be there, I apoligise:

RAW

- Chavo Guerrero [Jobber]
- Festus [Unused]
- "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan [Unused]
- Jaime Noble [Undercard]
- Jillian Hall [Unused]
- Santino Marella [Jobber]

SmackDown!

- Chalie Haas [Undercard/Jobber]
- Finlay [Unused]
- Jimmy Wang Yang [Unused/Undercard/Jobber]
- Kung Fu Naki [Unused/Undercard/Jobber]
- Mike Knox [Unused]
- Slam Master J aka Jesse [?????]

So, my question is... out of all of the Undercarders, Unused/not properly utilised superstars & the jobbers under contract with the WWE list here, who deserves the push into the midcard the most?


My choice for the push would go to Charlie Haas. From those listed, Charlie is the most reliable. He can play both the heel & face roles at moderate performance & can be transitioned easily between the two; his name has worth & value & he is an experienced wrestler yet young enough to still be with the company for a long time. These points can be immensly argued, but the fact that Charlie Haas is not a "big man" or an "underdog/small" wrestler increases his chances of success. The WWE has too many big man roles already & another push would make the IWC diarrhoea at the mouth & pushing another small man would take a long time for him to look credible without the impressive movesets like Mysterio or Bourne. Charlie is in the middle & can easily pull off victories [& be believable by the fans in doing so] against many of the midcard & uppermidcard wrestlers due to his size alone. He also has the look of being a future midcard or tag team champion, however the top tier championships is way off for Haas.

An honourable mention would have to go to Kung Fu Naki & Jimmy Wang Yang. Can anybody say "SmackDown... number one tag team, YEEHAW"? You have the loyal veteran that has a gimmick over with the fans whilst the other guy is an underdog/small wrestler role with the movesets of Mysterio/Bourne who is a household name. Both have had success in the field of tag team wrestling as well. This team could be featured in the revival of the tag team division & give them something to do thats meaningful. I wouldn't see them as tag champions, but viable contenders.


Any thoughts on the subject?

 

[Dexter]

Maybe they ARE about to use Mike Knox, judging from Smackdown this past week. See that? They actually let him talk for... I guess the first time? At least, the first time I'd ever seen it. It was really entertaining. This giant "grizzly bear" grabs the stick and... he sounds like a really creepy little kid. The voice did NOT match the face. It was great.

So, yeah... I'll go with Mike Knox. That may be a bit of a cop out answer considering the fact that it looks like they're going somewhere with him anyway, but at the very least, I'm excited to see what they do with it. I'd never given half a damn about Knox before this Friday, but 10 seconds on the mic later, he's very much on my radar.

 

[bigp523]

I will agree with falkon that charlie haas would be good for this, but for the sake of argument i will throw anopther name out there.

I would say Finlay. He was getting a pretty good push on ECW, and had shown that he is an upper mid carder. The fans know him, and his character is somsone who likes to fight and is tough. He would be the perfect person to put people over, not to mention he is getting to that age where his career may be winding down.

It seems like festus and jesse are doomed to be career jobbers. They both have dumb characters and has jesse ever had a singles match? Hacksaw, while I like him, has been a jobber for 20+ years, and thats all he is in WWE right now. Chavo has lost to a misget for the last month now, so no one cares about him now. And Jamie Noble is meant for a cruiserwight division, like the rest of the crusierweights, he gets lost in the shuffle. Same goes for Wang, and Funaki has been a WWE jobber for 10 years now.

 

[SavageTaker]

The only guy I think I think should get a push is Mike Knox. The guy is just a complete bad ass and he looks like a great monster heel. Also, don’t forget the guy is a pretty solid wrestler. As far as mic skills, he is one of the few wrestlers who I just say who gives a fuck if he isn’t the best on the mic? Simply put I don’t give a fuck. It’s not like he needs to talk on the mic. He could go the Vader route and let what he does in the ring do the talking. He is one of the few that doesn’t need talk in order to be over. Although, a manager like James Mitchell could do him and his character wonders, (we know how Vince feels about them) but he still doesn’t really need one to be honest. Other than him, I don’t think anyone deserves to be pushed.

Chavo Guerrero: Who cares about him? I know I don’t. He hasn’t been any good in I don’t know how many years. The stuff he did with Mysterio a couple of years ago was pretty good but it has still been years since he was any and has done anything good. Yes, he is a solid wrestler but there’s no reason to give him a push to be honest.

Festus: I don’t really care for him at the moment. I don’t like his gimmick and I’m glad he is off of TV as long as he remains with that stupid and horrendous gimmick. I won’t care for him and don’t think he deserves a push until the gimmick is changed. So for now, he doesn’t deserve a push.

"Hacksaw" Jim Duggan: I don’t think he is actually under a contract and was being payed per appearance. I’m not sure about that but I think I remember reading something like that. Anyways, no don’t push him. I laughed at what they did with him on Raw last week but really, why push him over some of the younger guys? There’s just no reason.

Jaime Noble: I don’t really see what they could do other than have him job. He is a solid wrestler but to be honest he just isn’t going to be pushed any time soon with all of the others guys they are trying to push. He is pretty fun and entertaining most of the times he makes an appearance but I don’t think that warrants some type of push.

Jillian Hall: Once the WWE gets rid of her current gimmick and builds her and the divas division up then we’ll talk.

Santino Marella: I like Santino and think he is pretty good at times with the comedy but until they make him a serious character then I don’t see why they should push him at all.

Chalie Haas: They guy is solid in the ring but he bores me to death. He is just boring and I don’t think he has any or little charisma. So I don’t think he deserves a push to be honest.

Finlay: He serves his purpose. He is a guy that can usually pull a good match out of anyone and make them look good even if he loses. He doesn’t need to be pushed as he is serving his purpose.

Jimmy Wang Yang: Meh…don’t really care for him to be honest. I just find the gimmick he was using to be silly and I wouldn’t be surprised if gets future endeavored.

Kung Fu Naki: I never understood why this guy has been with them for so long. I know he is well liked backstage but what does he actually do? I know he used to job but how long has it been since he has actually done something meaningful that warrants a push? I don’t remember anything. So it’s a no from me.

Slam Master J aka Jesse: Just…no…I shouldn’t even have to comment on him. The gimmick he has is just terrible. He just doesn’t need to be pushed.

 

[Blade]

Like Dexter said, it looks like Knox is gonna be doing something in the coming weeks. Hopefully it's better than the angle with Mysterio, but I'm staying optimistic.

Naturally the push should go to Finlay. Listen to the pops he gets on SD, he's over as hell. More over than many of the midcarders. Perhaps it is because of the popularity he gained with Swoggle, but they should still capitalise on that.
Finlay is a veteran, a former US champion and he can get it done in the ring. He shown that he can be a decent world title challenger and he can play both the heel and the face. So I'm thinking make Finlay be the one to take the title off Ziggler a few months after when Ziggler wins it, and see how Finlay does.

 

[CyrusTheVirus=ECW]

well i just want to start by stating that mike knox spoke when he was on ECW back in 2006 and was in the storyline with kelly kelly.

Finlay should have stayed on ECW where he could have main evented like he had. and maybe and ecw title shot. chavo is what really dissapoints me. the guy is a former ECW champions. he has defeated the likes of CM Punk. he was a great cruiserwieght champ. he even had a great feud with rey mysterio a few years ago. how the hell does he lose to hornswaggle for the last month

 

[D-Man]

I say NONE of them get used. They're all dogshit. Every one of them was given chances, gimmicks, and storylines for them to make the most out of, but they all failed. Most of them failed on more than one occasion.

The WWE needs jobbers. Without them, midcard to uppercard talent would constantly be in a state of winning and losing matches, and they would look stagnant and stale to the crowd. But, I'm sure you all know this.

I think that the best talent is being used properly right now and there is no need for change. None of the stars that you listed really deserve any money and television time being spent on them for any kind of push.

Now, you asked, out of the list you made, who deserves one the most? That's kind of like asking which one-legged man do you think would win the ass-kicking contest, but I'll answer anyway... Mike Knox. He's the only one that hasn't been given a truly decent chance, only for him to fail miserably. Ugh...

 

[angry_panda]

As has been mentioned Charlie Haas is a solid wrestler, is young enough to get a good solid push, he probably even has the wrestling skills for it, but like SavageTaker said, he is dull, he matches are flat, he has almost no charisma (in or out of the ring). I think he is a very capable athlete but unless he is in a tag team, I think he will be stuck as a jobber.

Finlay is great, I love him, but I think he is just to old for a decent push now, at 51 he is never going to make to into the main event, WWE already know what they have with Finlay, he will continue to do a good job by WWE and I'll continue to enjoy watching him, but if he gets near the upper mid card on either SD, or Raw I'll be Surprised.

Mike Knox did cut a great promo on Smackdown last week, its was very creepy, and with his voice he could pull of an awesome psycho killer gimmick (I'm hesitant to say this), but how much fun could creative have had with this in the attitude era, stupid pg....grumble.....kids.....grumble. I've still yet to see him prove he can pull it off in the ring though, I hope he will, but only time will tell.

Personally topping my list would be Santino, he has proven he can wrestle, he has done nothing but cut great promos since he moved to raw. I think WWE could do allot worse than have Santino as the USA champion. Give the belt to Masters (or any heal really, because TBH does anyone give a toss about Kofi Kingston as the US champ, I don’t even remember seeing him since he won the 6 pack challenge).

You could the have a semi comedy skit where Santino embarrasses masters in the locker room, with Masters challenging him to a non-title match to "teach him respect" but Santino (through some crazy scenario) wins. Santino can then slowly go build up a few wins against Masters building his confidence, until he gets a clean pin for the belt and is set in the mind of the fans as a legit champion. People would love him.

 

[The Todd]

None of the superstars listed deserve a push at all save for Knox. With Knox I believe he deserves more praise than he gets. His once chance he has had to shine was in the Raw Elimination Chamber at No Way Out. On the same card Vladimir Kozlov participated in the exact same kind of match. In that match Kozlov bored me, he didn't look like a badass. Maybe it was because he couldn't dominate Show but either way he was shit.

In the Raw one Knox looked brilliant until his elimination that came too early. He looked dominant and believable. Yes the workers he worked with were more suited to his style, but he delivered.

Since then he has been moved to Smackdown and not got any sort of push. his momentum has gone and needs to be rebuilt. However, he hasn't been shown to be weak. He has never been beaten easily and is still a credible threat. He can definitely be a powerhouse of a heel in the upper mid card.

Finlay doesn't need a push, he is fine where he is; helping the younger ones by roughing them up on TV. Festus could be used but only with an entirely different gimmick. The rest are being used exactly as they should.

 

[Goo Punch]

I've been a fan of Knox ever since he turned on Kelly Kelly and back then he didn't even have the awesome Zakk Wylde beard. It does look like he's finally getting a push but we've seen it before. During his feud with Mysterio on RAW, it looked like it but then they just buried him. He even had a previous feud with Finlay in ECW that really went nowhere so hopefully this time is different. Knox and Finlay both both deserve to be moved up on the totem pole. I still haven't been able to figure out what the reasoning behind splitting up Finlay and Hornswaggle was and I really think they need to get them back together.

Santino also deserves a major push. He had so much momentum as a heel and then of course, WWE made their usual mistake by turning him Face and making him a comedy jobber...and and unfunny one. Santino used to be hilarious but now he's just used to help the guest host promote their shit. If they just turn him Heel again and not worry about whether he's getting cheered or not, he could be a huge star for the company.

I'm kinda liking this "Slam Master J" character and think he's playing it perfectly. He's not going so over-the-top with it that it's stupid, he's playing it pretty realistically, I know lots of people just like that. I hope they keep going with the gimmick. As for his ex-partner Festus, I have no idea why they're not using him. With his gimmick, they could hook him up with any heel who wants to use him to do his biding. Then there would be the eventual turn where he snaps out his...whatever his problem is and they can build him up as less of a comedy character.

The rest of the guys, I really don't see any potential for, especially Hass. he's been around forever and has never gotten over. His look is just too bland and he's lost too many times.

 

[Chill]

I've always been fond of Jamie Noble's work...I think he can be funny, entertaining and is a good wrestler. WWE seem to put him on TV every once in a while but he only lasts a few weeks before he ends up being jobbed off every time. The problem is on RAW there is so much talent and main event regulars that it is nearly impossible for a mid carder to shine, let alone an undercard talent like Jamie Noble. Last I heard Noble works with future up and coming talent at the TV tapings, often in dark matches or before the show begins...perhaps he is happy in that capacity but nonetheless I wouldn't complain to a small push.

On Smackdown, I would be inclined to say that Charlie Haas deserves a decent push. Again, I like Haas' work but unfortunately for him he hasn't really found his niche in WWE...he goes from Charlie Haas to Charlie the impersonator and then back to himself without explanation. If they were to allow him to work the mic and put him in a solid mid card feud then we may all be suprised with the results. Haas certainly has the in ring wrestling sussed, but much like his old partner Mr.Benjamin he's still trying to get over proper with the fans after quite a few years with WWE. Haas has talent, WWE just don't know what to do with him and that's never a good thing for the talent concerned...unless he connects with the fans his matches will only continue to play to silence (see his match with Slam Master J), which is a shame in my opinion.

 

[kidcassody55]

Yeah Jimmy Wang Yang and Kung Fu Naki would make a great team.

I also like Mike Knox i agree with Dexter Mike Knox is getting the little push right now but i wouldnt mind another mysterio fued with him so that he can capture the intercontinental title and if jeff leaves he can even become a smackdown main eventer.

As with Chavo i think having him job to Hornswoggle is a slap in the face to the Guerrero family. IDK how he goes from about i believe 2 solid fueds with Rey Mysterio (i believe he had one with Chris Benoit when he won the US Title a little after Eddie's death) to jobbing to someone who dosent belong in the wwe IDC how entertaining he is to the 5 year olds.

 

[Cebeards]

Take it how you want, but most of those guys are better than Cody Rhodes.

Santino needs a push, one of my favorite parts about raw; as long as he is used that it.

Knox, don't even really have to say it.

Haas, needs a good story/teacher/partner or something

ECW needs a cruiserweight title, this will take care of a good amount of em'

 

[Spaceman Spif]

I'm gonna say Santino I guees, granted he is being used with the guest hosts, and comdeic skits, but that's it. I love the guy, he's funny as hell, has a good look, good charisma and was on the verge of a big push that kind of got derailed. It needs to get back on track. Santino can wrestle and wrestle well. We know he's good on the mic and he's over with the fans. So give the guy his push finally. He deserves one.

 

[morty]

that slam master j character was growing on me until i saw him wrestle...ouch he didn't even look good against a jobber..and thats there job!! i wanted knox to have a push for a while part of me is still hoping for a kane/knox dominating team as i think its kane's last chance to turn heads but i feel knox's push will die soon enough and personly i think it is only a matter of time before chavo becomes a backstage agent and JWY is released...i think only way to get yang over now is have someone out completely verbally rip him to shreds say he's a joke etc etc.. come out a few weeks later as "james yang" still the texas character but in black jeans/cowboy hat and be all business start picking up the wins like that..fu naki/ duggan/ noble are going nowhere and festus is a great big man wrestler i really enjoyed his match with undertaker and the fact he wouldn't tap because he didn't understand how...shoot a few vignettes of him gettin "therapy" have the raw announcers put it over and have him turn up after a few months interupting miz or someone, come out banging a bell against his head all fired up just angry and after a couple of weeks lose the bell all togther just make him a dominent face badass

 

[morty]

oh and finlay maybe give jhim one more push as I.C champ have a programme with him and the dolph or CM punk as i'm sure he'll end up back in the I.C ranks before long ( )

but think that is as high as finlay should go at this point in his career

i am a big haas fan but the best oppurtunitie for pushing him was his original return against shleton (watch the match he looks great) since then they have spent to much time burying him unless he dissapears for a while again no1 will buy him bein pushed now

 

[HBK-aholic]

Everyone who has worked to deserve a push is receiving one. 99% of the people listed in this thread aren't being pushed for a reason - they're just not that good. There's a difference between who we like watching and who is a good wrestler. Take Benjamin for example, I'm a big fan of his, but I also know he's not good enough to be anywhere near the WWE main event. That's the key here - McMahon knows who deserves a push and what would be good for the business. If these people aren't gaining a push there's a reason for it.

 

[Goo Punch]

Everyone who has worked to deserve a push is receiving one. 99% of the people listed in this thread aren't being pushed for a reason - they're just not that good. There's a difference between who we like watching and who is a good wrestler. Take Benjamin for example, I'm a big fan of his, but I also know he's not good enough to be anywhere near the WWE main event. That's the key here - McMahon knows who deserves a push and what would be good for the business. If these people aren't gaining a push there's a reason for it.

Yes, because Vince McMahon always knows what's best. That's why the ratings are so great.

Come on. I'm probally the biggest Vince McMahon fan here, he's one of my idols but WWE is the only game in town right now and Vince isn't as on top of things as he used to be. The guy makes plently of mistakes.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Yes, because Vince McMahon always knows what's best. That's why the ratings are so great.

Come on. I'm probally the biggest Vince McMahon fan here, he's one of my idols but WWE is the only game in town right now and Vince isn't as on top of things as he used to be. The guy makes plently of mistakes.

And I'm sure you, and all the members of this forum know better than him? NO ONE has more experience or knowledge of the business than McMahon does, and I certainly don't expect a few WZ members to know something he doesn't. Sure, he'll make a mistake every now and then, because he's human, and everyone makes them. But he's the one who works for the purpose of expanding the business instead of being influenced by the personal preference most members are.

 

[SavageTaker]

Yes, because Vince McMahon always knows what's best. That's why the ratings are so great.

My guess is that you haven’t been keeping up with the ratings for Raw that last few weeks. Usually in this time of the year for past years, the ratings have a noticeable drop. This year it has been completely different, they are getting very good ratings. Just last week I believe that they got a 3.8 rating, are you going to deny that the rating is great? If you do then you obviously don’t know what you’re saying.

Come on. I'm probally the biggest Vince McMahon fan here, he's one of my idols but WWE is the only game in town right now and Vince isn't as on top of things as he used to be. The guy makes plently of mistakes.

Yeah…because you know how to run a wrestling company and know what’s good and what’s bad for it. If he was making plenty of mistakes then things wouldn’t be how they are. Now, I know some people think switching to PG (it really isn’t that noticeable, I sometimes forget about that) was bad thing and a mistake, but I don’t. Believe it or not, there is a method to Vince’s madness. That’s why his company has been able to stick around for so long now.

Ultimately, the talent listed doesn’t deserve to be pushed because they just don’t deserve it. If they were good enough, then they would be pushed. They just don’t have all of the things needed to deserve a push. For example, one of them might be a good wrestler but that doesn’t matter if they are still boring so they won’t get pushed. None of them get pushed for one reason or another that only one man knows, and that would be Vince. Like I said, there is a method to Vince’s madness.

 

[Goo Punch]

So you guys are saying you don't think anything at all could be changed for the better in WWE? Nothing? It's a successful company so it must be perfect? Wow. You guys had stock in ENRON, didn't you?

Seriously, come on. Vince is a genius but to say that absolutely nothing could be changed is absurd.

 

[dvayne]

Raw
With Santino's mic skills he's being wasted in the WWE i think if their not going to utilize him it's time to release him or give him the much deserved push. I would have him come out criticizing Raw hosts for not using him better. He has been sucking up to them and he still hasn't got anywhere. If they won't give him a match he will take matters into his own hands.

Kofi Kingston is in a match later with The Miz while Santino's is a guest commentator. Santino tells King and Cole he won the IC title on his first day in the company and he deserves a shot at the US title. After Kingston wins with trouble in paradise Santino distracts Kofi on the ring apron while Chavo and Jamie Noble run up from behind attacking Kofi.

The Next week Santino, Noble and Chavo come down and talk about how they've been held down but now they will have everyone's attention

Santino for midcard title
Noble and Chavo in the tag division

I would have them turn the stable face after a few weeks giving Raw a much needed face tag team


Smackdown

Charlie Haas is a very good technical wrestler but can't get over on his own

Mike Knox is a monster but doesn't have the mic skills to make it on his own

Turn them into a tag team under the leadership of CM Punk. Punk could get them over if they jump into gang wars against The Hardys and Morrison

For the record im not for bringing back tons of stables i just think there's some ppl that need them to make a name for themselves and without them they will never be anything but jobbers or released

 

[SavageTaker]

So you guys are saying you don't think anything at all could be changed for the better in WWE? Nothing? It's a successful company so it must be perfect? Wow. You guys had stock in ENRON, didn't you?

Who said the company is perfect? I know I didn’t. Maybe you should consider not stating things that no one has even said. WWE is not perfect however they are a very successful company. Even with the tough economy, they are still making a huge profit. If that’s not a successful company then I don’t think you know that what a successful company actually is. I don’t know how someone could deny that they are not successful. I guess making profits in a bad economy means nothing, right?

Seriously, come on. Vince is a genius but to say that absolutely nothing could be changed is absurd.

Again you go spouting things out that no one has even said. Point to me where someone said, “Absolutely nothing could be changed in the WWE,” oh wait you can’t because no one said it. Things could most definitely be changed however right now the talent they are pushing is the right talent. They shouldn’t change what they are doing with the guys that the OP listed because simply put, none of them deserve to be pushed at all (save for Knox). Most of them have been pushed in the past, and nothing came out of it because they weren’t good enough to continue getting pushed. Right now, none of the people listed deserve a push and WWE shouldn’t change that because they just don’t deserve that. I don’t know if I could make it any more clear.

 

[OIL]

Chavo Guerrero could do seriously well in a U.S Title fued. Honestly, it makes me cringe that he has to fued with HORNSWOGGLE EVERY FUCKING WEEK! Jesus Christ man, it's plain shit. I'm just sitting there thinking 'What the fuck is going on in Vince's head?!'. It's plain awful, and I'm surprised Chavo hasn't complained or quit yet, because I wouldn't stand for that shit.

Chavo isn't a bad wrestler, he's good. He can work a good match. Maybe his personality/gimmick needs a tweak, but other than that he could do really well in the US Title picture. He's getting buried for no good reason, ergh.

 

[Klown_Karnage]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, there's a way to give several of these guys a push. A new J.O.B. squad, but run it like a mafia family with Santino at the head. He'd be the best mouthpiece. Chavo would be the veteran. The guy's been around, he knows the score. He'd be equivalent to "capo" in this outfit. Jamie Noble and Jimmy Wang Yang would make a very amusing tag-team, playing up the fact that while both rednecks, Noble might have a bit of trouble justifying that with the nationality issue. These two would be the soldati.

Now, we've seen them lose so often, we're likely not going to see any belief in them winning any clean victories...so they don't. Instead, they all cheat for each other and manage to get their wins that way.

How would they form? Supposing Vince did a storyline in which he lines all four of them up for matches on an episode of Raw. If any of them lose, they're fired. They instead run an end-game around Vince and assist each other to stay in and thus the group is formed as they decide that, with each other's help, even championships are not out of their grasp.

Naturally, this would be a funny comedy thing, possibly a bit of parody directed at the Main Event Mafia on TNA, but it would still be entertaining.