Too Much Too Soon??

[Sh0wst0pper]

I've been a WWF/WWE fan my whole life. My 1st memory of tv PERIOD was watching Andre the Giant body slam Big John Studd for $10,000 (the WWF was big spenders back then, lol!) Anyway, though the years I've watched new characters inter the WWE and pay their dues before headlining for the company. Stone Cold started out wrestling Savio Vega in leather strap matches on the 1st or 2nd match of pay-per-views during the early part of his Stone Cold run. The Rock started out slowly taking over the Nation of Domination from Farroq. These days Sheamus beats the shit out of Jamie Noble and the next thing you know he's wrestling John Cena in the main event of a TLC pay-per-view match and has the WWE title put on him with no build up, no U.S. or Intercontinental title run, no paying his dues as mid card talent.

I can understand with injuries and top stars taking time off there is a greater need for main event players but shouldn't guys like Kofi Kingston, John Morrison, Mark Henry, R-Truth and the Miz get these opportunities before the guys that come out of nowhere and get direct pushes to the main event like Sheamus and Wade Barrett? Do you guys think that the WWE is more interested in thrusting new talent into the main event picture rather than slowly building new stars and allowing them to pay their dues before getting a main event push?

 

[Tommy Rage]

Slow build is preferable, but the pushes of Sheamus and Barrett have been successful nonetheless. One thing they have over guys like Truth and Morrison (who are definitely not main event material for other reasons mind you) is size, which makes them instantly more credible than smaller guys. Sheamus destroys a few guys and looking at him, it is at least believable that he could hang with Cena. A guy like Miz or Morrison? Not so much, therefore their push needs to be more careful and controlled.

Sheamus was pushed too soon, but they made up for it after he lost the title as the HHH feud really established him. Wade is being pushed hard but the angle justifies it and I'd say it is credit to WWE that he has such an aura and credibility despite such a short time in the company, though obviously things like his height/build and his charisma/mic skills help a lot.

I'd prefer they just pushed guys more steadily though no doubt.

 

[Sh0wst0pper]

I agree. It's been said for years that "Vince loves big guys". I'm sure if Bobby Lashley hadn't had the personality of a wet fart he would be one of the top faces of the company at this point instead of working for the "Dollar Store version" of the UFC, lol!

 

[Tommy Rage]

I agree. It's been said for years that "Vince loves big guys". I'm sure if Bobby Lashley hadn't had the personality of a wet fart he would be one of the top faces of the company at this point instead of working for the "Dollar Store version" of the UFC, lol!

Yeah they tried to push Lashley big due to his look. Around the time he faced Cena for the belt I thought he was going to dominate for years, which would have been a shame since he sucked ass. The Cena match was good though (mainly thanks to Cena).

With big guys it's just easier for them to be credible.

 

[Kaneanite]

I think Tommy Rage really hit the nail on the head. The bigger guys are more believable and unique. With the smaller looking guys and the guys that really lack that charisma it takes a controlled push to get them there. I really hope one day John Morrison improves his mic/promo skills and has a WWE Title around his waist but time will tell for sure. The guy is ridiculously talented and without a doubt has "the look". As for the Miz... well... I really couldn't care less if he quit wrestling entirely and started his own fishing show on local television.

 

[Sh0wst0pper]

I couldn't agree more with Kaneanite about the Miz, lol! i think John Morrison is making great strides to becoming a main eventer. I don't know what the hell the name of the new finisher he used last week was but it was BADASS!!

 

[Jack-Hammer]

A slow build is preferable and are generally more ideal. Sheamus & Wade Barrett have been pushed pretty quickly and I see them as being two long term stars for the company. However, that doesn't mean that it'll work everytime the WWE tries to do that.

Sheamus literally came out of nowhere and him winning the WWE Championship at TLC last year was arguably the most shocking wrestling moment of 2009. The WWE definitely threw a curve and they were taking a chance quite frankly. A shitload of people among the IWC hated the guy from the start and weren't even willing to give him a chance, but Sheamus has proven himself in my opinion. Some still make all the usual jokes/comments about his skin and his hair, but they don't really have any zing to them anymore.

Wade Barrett's push came about as a result of NXT. After all, the first winner of NXT was touted as the WWE's next breakout star. While some do see NXT as a failure, NXT was a great platform to launch Wade Barrett. He's been the key to pulling off The Nexus angle. They haven't launched him straight into position as WWE Champion and I think that's a good move, but I've little doubt he'll be champ someday.

I think another good example is Daniel Bryan. In many ways, the first season of NXT was woven around him. His feud with The Miz, his portrayal as an underdog type of character and an "average" guy, the situation with Michael Cole all helped to get him over long before he ever set foot on Raw. He's the reigning United States Champion and the WWE has got to be happy with what they've gotten out of him thus far as just about everyone else is.

As far as a slow build goes, I don't think it can be denied that The Miz hasn't paid his dues. He's been in the WWE for quite a while now and it's really only been within the span of about a year now that The Miz has really become a force in the WWE. He's been a talented guy all along, but his winning the United States Championship around this time last year was a huge turning point in his career.

 

[MaverickAZ]

Thats the problem, you have to have it all. While Sheamus and Barrett's pushes to the top were quick. They have the size and mic skills. and decent in-ring ability, which is pretty much all you need

If Morrison had , say, Miz' mic skills, he'd easily be in the main event area.

My only problem is, with Sheamus and Barrett, what you see is what you get. Can anyone really see these guys as nothing but the bully type character? The fact they both have accents IMO, will keep them from ever being top faces at any point in their careers, more so with Barrett. WWE must find a way to get these guys to be the best heels ever, and with Sheamus, lately, they are dropping the ball. He isn't even working a program with anyone right now. A Smackdown move by Sheamus wouldnt be a bad idea

 

[The Brain]

I was always one to say someone should be built up slowly, but after thinking about it that isn't necessary with everyone. Guys jumping into the main event almost immediately is nothing new in the WWE. Steve Austin feuding with Savio Vega and The Rock's time in the Nation were examples of a slower build, but there are old school examples on the other side of the coin.

Ted Dibiase joined the WWF in the fall of 1987. Within a couple months he was responsible for ending Hogan's four year title reign and heavily involved in the highest rated wrestling show ever. He then went on to main event WrestleMania only about six months after his debut. Both The Big Bossman and Earthquake feuded with Hogan shortly after their debuts. Yokozuna is another example. He debuted in October 1992 and six months later was in the main event of mania. Let's not forget about Brock Lesnar. He wasn't even on the main roster when The Rock beat Hulk Hogan at WMX8, but he took the undisputed title from the Rock only five months later at SummerSlam. I'm sure there are more examples, but those are five right off the top of my head.

My instinct is to say a slow build is the way to go, but if done properly putting a guy in the main event right away can work out well too.

 

[Judah's Lion]

I was always one to say someone should be built up slowly, but after thinking about it that isn't necessary with everyone. Guys jumping into the main event almost immediately is nothing new in the WWE. Steve Austin feuding with Savio Vega and The Rock's time in the Nation were examples of a slower build, but there are old school examples on the other side of the coin.

Ted Dibiase joined the WWF in the fall of 1987. Within a couple months he was responsible for ending Hogan's four year title reign and heavily involved in the highest rated wrestling show ever. He then went on to main event WrestleMania only about six months after his debut. Both The Big Bossman and Earthquake feuded with Hogan shortly after their debuts. Yokozuna is another example. He debuted in October 1992 and six months later was in the main event of mania. Let's not forget about Brock Lesnar. He wasn't even on the main roster when The Rock beat Hulk Hogan at WMX8, but he took the undisputed title from the Rock only five months later at SummerSlam. I'm sure there are more examples, but those are five right off the top of my head.

My instinct is to say a slow build is the way to go, but if done properly putting a guy in the main event right away can work out well too.

besides the names listed, you can add Kurt Angle and Kevin Nash and Undertaker and Kane to those lists. all 4 of these guys got the WHC within one year of debuting inside the WWF/E. and one of them didn't even have the size and build that Vince loves so much.

if done well, a big push to the top isn't the worst thing in the world. and we also need to realize how we define "paying dues". lest we forget, Sheamus has also worked overseas and in ECW. it wasn't like the guy has only wrestled for the last 12 months of his life. so that's not fair to say that he hasn't paid his dues.

 

[The Poodle]

I totally agree. Very few people have had successful careers after being thrust into main event scene. It depends on the feuds, and the people involved, the character, etc. I think that Barrett might work, while I really think Sheamus will flop. I could be wrong, but I just dont see it in him. Good news for him that he is HHH's boy.

Yes, there are great examples of people who immediately came into the spotlight. But Diabiase, Earthquake, Big Bossman arent them. Yes, they all had marginally successful careers, but: How many WWE Championships? None. IC titles? NONE. Yes, each of them held the tag championships (Ted 3 times) but not ONE SINGLES TITLE. And none of them were constant main event players.

I would say the biggest example of someone being pushed into the mainevent too fast has brought us one of the greatest characters, performers, accomplisments, and certainly most recognizable person still active: The Undertaker. Within a year he had locked the Ultimate Warrior in a Casket, defeated Randy Savage, and beat Hogan for the WWF title.

Look at the people over the last 20 years who have been in the main event scene (more than just a match or two)

Bret, HBK, HHH, Austin, Rock, Cena, Orton, Jeff Hardy, Edge, Bradshaw, Jericho, Angle, RVD, Rey Mysterio, Diesel, Eddie Guerrero, Benoit, Bautista, Kane, Mankind

NONE of them came in and just immediately were world title contenders. Thats why all have had long and successful careers.

Good luck Wade and Sheamus

 

[Cookie14]

Look at the people over the last 20 years who have been in the main event scene (more than just a match or two)

Bret, HBK, HHH, Austin, Rock, Cena, Orton, Jeff Hardy, Edge, Bradshaw, Jericho, Angle, RVD, Rey Mysterio, Diesel, Eddie Guerrero, Benoit, Bautista, Kane, Mankind

NONE of them came in and just immediately were world title contenders. Thats why all have had long and successful careers.

Good luck Wade and Sheamus

What about Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, Goldberg, Yokozuna, Big Show or Sgt Slaughter (granted, this was his second run in the WWF)? They all won the WHC within 12 months of their debut.

At the end of the day, it is crowd response, not time served, that decides who will become champion. That is why some people get pushed to the stars from their debuts while others have to wait a while.

Out of the people you named, Bret, HBK, Jeff, Edge, Bradshaw, Eddie, Benoit and Batista were all in tag teams/factions for a long time after their debuts. Austin (Ringmaster), Rock (Rocky Miavia), Orton (Randy News Network) were given crappy gimmicks.
Diesel spent most of his debtu year as manager/bodyguard to HBK.
Jericho (like Diesel) won a WHC within 18 months, but Jericho spent his debut year mainly fueding with the Rock.
RVD and Mysterio both debuted during the Invasion angle, and you name anyone who came across from WCW/ECW to hold a major title during that time.......
Kane and Mankind both debuted fueding against Undertaker, alongside Paul Bearer. That's why neither one was in the title picture at the time.

Any other examples you want me to rip to pieces??

 

[The Brain]

I totally agree. Very few people have had successful careers after being thrust into main event scene. It depends on the feuds, and the people involved, the character, etc. I think that Barrett might work, while I really think Sheamus will flop. I could be wrong, but I just dont see it in him. Good news for him that he is HHH's boy.

Yes, there are great examples of people who immediately came into the spotlight. But Diabiase, Earthquake, Big Bossman arent them. Yes, they all had marginally successful careers, but: How many WWE Championships? None. IC titles? NONE. Yes, each of them held the tag championships (Ted 3 times) but not ONE SINGLES TITLE. And none of them were constant main event players.

I would say the biggest example of someone being pushed into the mainevent too fast has brought us one of the greatest characters, performers, accomplisments, and certainly most recognizable person still active: The Undertaker. Within a year he had locked the Ultimate Warrior in a Casket, defeated Randy Savage, and beat Hogan for the WWF title.

Look at the people over the last 20 years who have been in the main event scene (more than just a match or two)

Bret, HBK, HHH, Austin, Rock, Cena, Orton, Jeff Hardy, Edge, Bradshaw, Jericho, Angle, RVD, Rey Mysterio, Diesel, Eddie Guerrero, Benoit, Bautista, Kane, Mankind

NONE of them came in and just immediately were world title contenders. Thats why all have had long and successful careers.

Good luck Wade and Sheamus

I think I have a different definition of success than most people. In my opinion Ted Dibiase, Big Bossman, and Earthquake all had successful WWF careers. They all lasted a few years and were always relevant. They may not have always been in the main event, but they were never just lost in the shuffle. Were they as successful as Hogan, Austin, or Cena? Of course not, but those are rare characters. Remember there was only one champion back in those days and the WWF didn't pass the belt around every couple months like they do now. It's not fair to compare title reigns. I'd say those three were successful and they started at the top.

 

[The Crock]

A slow build is a very good thing, but at the end of the day... Whatever works is good by me. Some guys are just built for that big monster push, most guys can't pull it off though. A lot of the time when the WWE throws out a monster push it is because they are trying to build stars for that moment as well as the future. A slow build on the otherhand allows for a lot of character development as well as for a legitimate connection to be built with the crowd. Slow pushes are the foundation of the business, it's how most stars are made.

As for "paying their dues", I don't think a huge push effects that much. Sure, they are in the Main Event, but they're still working for the belt and they're still working to be the best they can be. Usually the guys who get a monster push are guys that have been labeled as a future star since day one, it's just the guys who are the perfect combination of talent, guys that can pull it off.

 

[Sh0wst0pper]

Thats the problem, you have to have it all. While Sheamus and Barrett's pushes to the top were quick. They have the size and mic skills. and decent in-ring ability, which is pretty much all you need

If Morrison had , say, Miz' mic skills, he'd easily be in the main event area.

My only problem is, with Sheamus and Barrett, what you see is what you get. Can anyone really see these guys as nothing but the bully type character? The fact they both have accents IMO, will keep them from ever being top faces at any point in their careers, more so with Barrett. WWE must find a way to get these guys to be the best heels ever, and with Sheamus, lately, they are dropping the ball. He isn't even working a program with anyone right now. A Smackdown move by Sheamus wouldnt be a bad idea

Yes, I agree totally. Size is the only thing stopping John Morrison AND Evan Borne for that matter from being in the main event. And I don't know if it's just me but has anyone else noticed that Barrett or Sheamu rarely wrestle?? They come out and do most of their work on the mike and in backstage promos. When's the last time Barrett was in a singles match or even a tag match with significant ring time besides a ppv? Most of their physical efforts are weak ass run-ins or 5 second signature moves or wheel kicks.

 

[mharmon99]

Slow build is preferable, but the pushes of Sheamus and Barrett have been successful nonetheless. One thing they have over guys like Truth and Morrison (who are definitely not main event material for other reasons mind you) is size, which makes them instantly more credible than smaller guys. Sheamus destroys a few guys and looking at him, it is at least believable that he could hang with Cena. A guy like Miz or Morrison? Not so much, therefore their push needs to be more careful and controlled.

Sheamus was pushed too soon, but they made up for it after he lost the title as the HHH feud really established him. Wade is being pushed hard but the angle justifies it and I'd say it is credit to WWE that he has such an aura and credibility despite such a short time in the company, though obviously things like his height/build and his charisma/mic skills help a lot.

I'd prefer they just pushed guys more steadily though no doubt.

I get what your saying but John Morrison definitely should be on top, look at the kid, he has charisma and not to mention they keep changing his finishers which by the way are all revolutionary. A corkscrew splitlegged moonsult has never been done, that move he did on tyson kid, nobody his done it more beautifully, he has all the talent to be a main event superstar, The Miz is already being pushed to main event so

 

[Tommy Rage]

Yes, I agree totally. Size is the only thing stopping John Morrison AND Evan Borne for that matter from being in the main event. And I don't know if it's just me but has anyone else noticed that Barrett or Sheamu rarely wrestle?? They come out and do most of their work on the mike and in backstage promos. When's the last time Barrett was in a singles match or even a tag match with significant ring time besides a ppv? Most of their physical efforts are weak ass run-ins or 5 second signature moves or wheel kicks.

To be fair it doesn't make sense for Barrett to wrestle every week as it would undermine his aura. He is supposed to be the mastermind of Nexus who orders others to do his dirty work. Seeing him wrestle matches every week would overexpose him and take away some of that presence that he has. I think Barrett wrestling just on PPVs, when the title is on the line (or something else big like Cena's future) is fine. Sheamus is involved in a fair few squashes, and other matches like the one against Morrison.

I get what your saying but John Morrison definitely should be on top, look at the kid, he has charisma and not to mention they keep changing his finishers which by the way are all revolutionary. A corkscrew splitlegged moonsult has never been done, that move he did on tyson kid, nobody his done it more beautifully, he has all the talent to be a main event superstar, The Miz is already being pushed to main event so

Morrison has charisma? He has a good look and gimmick but he's honestly one of the least charismatic guys on the roster. He was decent as a heel, but even then his promos were pretty bad, it's just that the deadpan style worked as a heel. Morrison has never cut a promo that really impressed me or made me want to get behind him. He is not charismatic in the slightest.

I also don't think a few athletic moves make you a good wrestler, let alone somebody worth pushing to the title. He can be solid with the right guy (CM Punk, Sheamus) but he's not a good wrestler by any means and often looks lost in longer matches. An impressive moveset is meaningless if you don't know how to put together a match and tell a good story. I also find his moveset pretty bad because I prefer more realistic moves to the gymnastics moves Morrison does. Not to mention the fact that he botches his own finisher most of the time.

The Miz being pushed to the main event is completely irrelevant. Miz is one of the best mic workers of a generation and is loaded with charisma. Morrison is nowhere near on his level. Miz is a better wrestler too and understands the basics a lot more than Morrison. Miz carried the team when they tagged.

 

[Undertaker the 5th]

I don't think it really matters a lot. I mean it's up to the people to like someone be it coming from a big push or a slower push to the top. Look at Snitsky, he got pushed as one of those big guys who can dominate, but nobody gave a shit about him. Guys who receive slower pushes have a tendency of not breaking out so much. That is because WWE brings in new talent all the damn time. Look at all the crap that's left from ECW. All those wrestlers and they all trying to get recognized, but only a few can make it.

 

[Notorious718]

I haven't watched wrestling for a very long time like most people here but I think it's safe to say that future Main Eventers would be getting slow gradual builds before their big push in an ideal world. In the cases of Barrett and Sheamus, I think WWE got lucky getting these two into the main event scene, Sheamus in particular who literally came out of nowhere and won the WWE title on his first try against John Cena no less. It worked for Barrett because he was pushed on NXT and was thrust into tue hottest angle of the year. Daniel Bryan was also built on NXT and had a feud perfectly set up with Miz. So there are indeed cases, albeit rare, in which quick pushes do work. I think it's highly unlikely WWE can continue to get away with this however.

Until recently, WWE has done a fairly bad job with its midcard which is probably why so few are paying their dues in the midcard before transitioning to the main event. However, I think now the company is doing a better job at building the midcard. Alberto Del Rio has been pushed hard but is not yet in the main event. I'm a bit iffy on Kaval but I do think he's being built slowly but surely. Daniel Bryan is doing a great job carrying the midcard on RAW. So personally, I think WWE is doing a better job this year at building new stars then they have been in say the past five years.

 

[brighamosity]

While I certainly agree that it's ideal for people to be around for a few years, it's certainly nothing new, as you make it out to be. The first person that comes to mind, as someone already said, is The Undertaker.

I think it adds a good bit of unpredictability to the product when they push new people like that. When Sheamus first won the title, I doubt very many people realistically expected it. And he's main-event worthy, so it doesn't really bother me.

On the other hand, people like Kofi and Morrison, that would bother me. They have no business being in the main event. Mark Henry's been with the company for over a decade and I pray that he never wins the big one, despite being a "big guy" like Vince likes.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

I totally agree with you. There is definitely a bit of the "too much too soon" going around in the WWE. I think they've just sacrificed character building for an easy paycheck. The bottom line is, what will sell PPVs? It used to be that people bought a PPV to see if maybe...just maybe...somebody could defeat the Rock and take home the gold. Maybe, if a miracle happens, somebody can topple Hulk Hogan and become the new champion... Nowadays, we're lucky if the belt doesn't change hands at every single event.

Granted, some times shoving a guy right into the main event works. Sheamus might not have been received well at first, but now he's dominant (save getting jobbed out by Santino this week) and everybody's starting to believe in a Sheamus filled future. Everybody hated the Miz until WWE started taking him seriously and gave him MITB (which might just be the cause of all the "too much too soon" going on). The first thing Chris Jericho did was interrupt the Rock. And...now Chris Jericho is one of the biggest names in the history of wrestling. Kane debuted by breaking down the Hell in a Cell door and taking out the Undertaker.

It doesn't always take slow character building over time to get a guy to the top. And honestly, it didn't used to be like that either. The Undertaker was main eventing within a year. Andre the Giant didn't exactly work his way to the top either. Sometimes it just clicks.

 

[Sh0wst0pper]

While I certainly agree that it's ideal for people to be around for a few years, it's certainly nothing new, as you make it out to be. The first person that comes to mind, as someone already said, is The Undertaker.

The Undertaker is a once in a lifetime phenomenon. He was the perfect guy with the perfect gimmick at the perfect time. You absolutely, positively CAN NOT compare Sheamus to the Undertaker.

 

[DeathClutch]

Nexus was too hot not to run with it, it was interiging, something WWE lacked up for a while, the tag division NEEDED Nexus to win the belts to give them some cred in the championships department and I the build up has been slow, their has been a lot of talk about a bigger picture and Survivor Series doesn't make sense with Cena able to leave Nexus after joining 7 weeks previous, so the build has been slow to establish WHO is the true leader.

RAW is a career killer for MANY talent, to many people get lost in the shuffle, Morrison & Truth to name two, the problem is with Cena and Sheamus on the shame show both were are unstoppable it hurts the lower card guys, so when a fresh face/faces come in they get pushed some fail some flurish.