Too many heel factions? Idea for wade Barrett and other.

[GeTiTT]

With the shield, colter coalition and now Wyatt family. They def. need to bring in some face stables. One idea was to turn Barrett face bring William regal in as his manager and have Paige from NXT come and join. Ya typical stable where members are from the same origin. It works because it makes sense. Regal can def. elevate and guide Barrett after his recent flop of no gimmick.

Another idea was realigning tamina with the usos and bringing in camacho (changing his gimmick to Pacific Islander) as their heavy to be able to compete with the shield who has Ambrose and Wyatt fam who has bray. What are your guys thoughts and other potential stables?

 

[Sandpiper64]

I've always had this vision of Cena and Sheamus completely ditching their gimmicks and becoming Irish thugs from south Boston. With Cena kind of being the "Mark Whalberg" type and Sheamus being the broken English "fresh off the boat from Ireland" gimmick. Their entrance music could be something from the dropkick murphy's. I don't know who would join them but I certainly think it would be a much needed gimmick change from their bubble gum baby face personas and an obvious excuse for Cena to freshen up his character.

 

[LSN80]

With Cena kind of being the "Mark Whalberg" type and Sheamus being the broken English "fresh off the boat from Ireland" gimmick.

The problem with this idea is that it would require both Sheamus and Cena, the latter being the WWE Champion, to take time off from WWE TV ala Ryback(Skip Sheffield) or Bray Wyatt(Husky Harris). Could you really imagine both men going down to developmental to "work" on this gimmick? Not going to happen. Besides, Cena's already done the 'Marky Mark' gimmick, and went as far with it as he can go. It would be a rehashing of an old upper-mid-card gimmick, not a refreshing of one.

I don't think the problem is finding stabes, per se, to feud with the Shield, Coulter's guys, or the Wyatt family. The issue is finding credible tag teams in order to combat them. Take the Shield, for example. While The Usos are a fine tag team, they've hardly been built up as a serious threats to the Shield. That's what WWE needs more then anything. Tag teams who are built as credible threats to heels.

Team Hell No was a perfect example of this. While they essentially lost their feud with the Shield, they served as a credible foil, with Bryan actually getting a rub by pinning Seth Rollins in a tag match. While them losing the tag championship to the Shield was inevitable, they had been built up over the past 9 months so that they were incredible opponents for the Shield.

That's exactly what WWE needs right now. As much as I'm loathe to pairing top Superstars together, there are many out there spinning their heels waiting for a shot at the title. Not everyone can be in the championship picture at the same time, and pairing together an Orton and Sheamus to combat the tag champs or other heels while Christian combats Ambrose brings incredible presence to these feuds, and credibility as well. It wouldn't be the first time Orton and Sheamus have teamed up, after all.

And it sure beats the heck out the virtually unknown, character wise, Usos as top challengers as well.

 

[LegendKiller716]

I think a real simple plan would be to bring back Nexus. Nexus would very easily get the nostalgia pop and sell a ton of merch (again). Barrett, Ryback, Gabriel, Slater, Bryan, Young, and Otunga are still on the roster. Mason Ryan, Punk, Axel, and Wyatt are also still there.

WWE seems to like the 3 man stable idea, but if I brought Nexus back in, I'd go four man. I'd go Barrett, Gabriel, Slater, and Ryback.

Barrett is going absolutely nowhere right now and can really benefit from being in a leadership role again. Gabriel continuously gets one of the biggest pops of the night, but has no direction. Slater is a guy WWE is obviously high on, but 3MB is just awful, and Ryback's star has fallen fast. After rebuilding some momentum he can split from the group later.

Just run an angel where the shield beats them all down separately, and they return together to feud with them. With the exception of Barrett, they've all had run-ins with the shield already.

 

[Sandpiper64]

Lucic, I think you're misunderstanding the gimmick itself. It's not a marky mark and funky bunch gimmick. It's a Mark Whalberg south boston type role which he has played in countless movies and wouldn't require them going back down to FCW to "work" on the gimmick. All they have to do is take a break from the ring for a bit. It's not a rehash because it's not like he'd be wearing his basketball jersey again and rapping. He'd be an irish thug, not a white rapper.

 

[LSN80]

All they have to do is take a break from the ring for a bit

This creates the same problem, regardless of "white rapper" or "Irish Thug" from Boston. You'ld be removing the WWE Champion and the top draw from TV, and you'ld be saddling him with an upper mid-card gimmick, at best.

Cena is fine as he is, and there really isn't a need for a face faction. Even if that happened, you wouldn't need to change the gimmicks of the individuals themselves. Look at the great factions: The Four Horseman. Evolution. Yes, they were heels, but they were two of the most successful factions of all-time.

And none had to change the essence of what make them who they are in order to succeed. Cena, who's been incredibly successful(13 championships) over the past 8 years, shouldn't either. And everyone knows Sheamus isn't fresh off the boat, and speaks fine English. You'ld have to change his name, his look, and his entire character.

You can get away with that with the Bray Wyatt's, the Curtis Axel's of the world. Not main event stars.

 

[#tamale]

Face factions/stables rarely work. A heel faction is designed for one hero to take them down. He may have some allies, but it's that one hero that leads the charge to rid the world of the evil faction.

Sting was the hero against the NWO and later on it became Goldberg. Austin was the hero against the Corporation. So what we should look for is the hero that takes down the evil factions of today.

 

[Lord_Frish]

The simplest way to build up a face tag team or stable at this point would be to have them beat the top heels on occasions. The Shield defeating so many different combinations of the top Faces worked well, so just flip that and do it with the heels. As an example, you could have the Usos put in a match with Mark Henry and Del Rio. Let Del Rio and Henry perform all their usual spots so they don't look weak, but have the Usos teamwork get them the victory. They can isolate Del Rio and do every double team move they know to get the victory. Then the week after have one Uso fight Del Rio and the other fight Henry and they both lose. Alternate on this and the opponents faced and with a bit of luck we can get a strong face tag team.

 

[Sandpiper64]

Who says he has to be WWE champion. He's not entitled to the championship at all times. There is nothing wrong with him being upper mid card for a bit either. He was upper-mid card during CM Punk's reign.

Cena TWEAKING his gimmick would not change the fact that he is a 13 time champion. You make it sound like this would be a terrible career move that would kill his career. Characters gets stale after a while and their gimmicks need to be tweaked every now and then. As for Sheamus, a broken english accent doesn't mean he can't speak english at all. Being fresh off the irish boat just means he still has his irish accent. There is nothing earth shattering about Sheamus putting on a kangol hat and a different outfit.

And El terrible, just because face factions haven't work before doesn't mean they can't work ever.

Besides, this is an idea, not a possibility.

 

[MCMG]

Wade Barrett is a good heel. I'm just not convinced that turning him face is the right move. Especially when their is an imbalance between heels and faces. Cena, Punk, Bryan, Orton, Sheamus, Ziggler, Kane, Christian, The Miz and part-timers like Y2J, HHH, The Rock and Taker. Wade Barrett would be lost in all of that. He would have no chance of succeeding. He has a good chance of becoming the number one heel. In my opinion, he is more talented than Del Rio and he can be at the very top.

I think a stable could help him get over but it would have to be a heel stable but there are too many of those. Barrett as face just doesn't work for me.

The idea of a British and Irish stable could work. Sheamus, Mason Ryan, Drew McIntyre and Regal could work. Sheamus as the leader with Ryan and Regal as a tag-team; McIntyre challenging for a mid-card belt. It would be a far better fit than turning Barrett.

The Shield and the Wyatt family are the only stables. Colter's guys is a tag-team. They may add more members but at the current moment they are a tag-team. The Shield are clearly destined for the top and will be in some very big name feuds come the next few months. I'm not sure about the Wyatt family. I am still not convinced by Harper and Rowan; they need to win me over. A feud between the two could work but I would not pursue that route. I don't see a logical pay-off without the Wyatt family getting buried and their momentum being hurt.

 

[Sexcellence of Sexecution]

If they wanted to turn Wade Barrett face, here's a way they could do it.

Start a feud between Sheamus and Wade Barrett, two tough brawlers who love to fight. This would have to be a very physical feud, with hard-hitting matches and brawls all over the arena. Less talking, more fighting. Have these guys fight everywhere. They could do segments where Sheamus and Barrett keep running into each other at different locations (in a bar, a fast food joint, anywhere you can think of) and a fight breaks out every time. I think you could get some pretty humorous and entertaining television out of that, and it would actually be a midcard feud with some memorable moments (a fucking rarity nowadays).

Naturally, this would all culminate with a Falls Count Anywhere Match, that would end with Sheamus and Barrett showing mutual respect. From there you could pair them up as a tag-team. As a team they would often disagree, and would simply settle their issues by fighting, with no hard feelings afterwards. I think the idea of a Tough Irish Bastard and a Bare-Knuckle Brawler as a rugged babyface team makes sense, and they would be solid opponents for both Rollins & Reigns and the Wyatt Family.

 

[Tastycles]

Factions are shit, and the IWC appear totally unable to grasp that. All factions do is bore the audience and bury the members. There's a few exceptions to the rule, but that's why people still talk about nWo and the Horsemen and don't really talk about, say, The Corre. The Shield works because none of them are a star, and none of them is clearly the leader, as soon as they start pushing one of them, presumably Ambrose, the other two will look become shit cannon fodder.

Face factions are even worse, because in order for them to 'overcome the odds' they have to be completely smashed apart first. DX is the only group I can think of that were predominantly faces that enjoyed any sustained success, and they started out as heels. If the WWE has four midcarders as charismatic as HHH, X-Pac and the New Age Outlaws, then this could be a sensible proposition. As it is, it's ridiculous.

 

[#tamale]

And El terrible, just because face factions haven't work before doesn't mean they can't work ever.

Besides, this is an idea, not a possibility.

Because factions like The Union, JOB Squad, the Frontline, and such have left fans with the sterling image that maybe one day, a face faction will work.

I'm saying never.

Face factions are even worse, because in order for them to 'overcome the odds' they have to be completely smashed apart first. DX is the only group I can think of that were predominantly faces that enjoyed any sustained success, and they started out as heels. If the WWE has four midcarders as charismatic as HHH, X-Pac and the New Age Outlaws, then this could be a sensible proposition. As it is, it's ridiculous.

Thank you.

Give me the singular hero who takes down the evil factions over the hyperbole that a face faction could actually work.

 

[Sandpiper64]

The IWC sure has bad short term memory....anyone remember DX, the NWO, Fortune, face Four Horsemen....SURE...face factions never work do they? Yeah, they are total s%^t.

The concept of a face faction is not a hyperbole. It's to create matchups with tag teams and singles wrestlers. It's a simple alternative to your "one hero takes down all" option. You guys swear it off like it's this terrible idea with no support to back up your proof. I just gave you 4 face factions that have worked and DIDN'T bury their members or bore the audience. You just admit that they are shit yet you mention ones that have been successful.

A little less revisionist history on your parts would be appreciated.

 

[rerun406]

Face Factions in the WWE might not have great success, but The Nation of Domination revamped with Farooq, The Rock, D'Lo Brown and Mark Henry was pretty successful

and IMO The Nation-DX feud was one the best things going during the Attitude Era

 

[Tastycles]

The IWC sure has bad short term memory....anyone remember DX,

That's one.

the NWO,

They were mostly heels, until it all started to fall apart.

Fortune

Why you've decided to feature utter TNA nonsense along with all of this list is beyond me, but again, they were predominantly heels.

face Four Horsemen

They were pretty much heels too.

....SURE...face factions never work do they? Yeah, they are total s%^t.

DX are the only one.

The concept of a face faction is not a hyperbole. It's to create matchups with tag teams and singles wrestlers. It's a simple alternative to your "one hero takes down all" option. You guys swear it off like it's this terrible idea with no support to back up your proof. I just gave you 4 face factions that have worked and DIDN'T bury their members or bore the audience. You just admit that they are shit yet you mention ones that have been successful.

Fortune didn't have an audience, by the time the nWo turned face, or part of it, WCW was pissing away fans. DX had the benefit of a heel who was a heel without beating people up - the real strength of Mr. McMahon, and the Four Horsemen were heels throughout their most successful period.

A little less revisionist history on your parts would be appreciated.

In the entire history of wrestling, you've come up with four. Three of which were mostly faces, and one of which had the anomaly of containing four incredibly over midcarders, and was fighting a power that didn't need to beat them up to seem like a threat.

Stables generally are shit, face ones especially. Throughout the history of wrestling there are generally one or two stables in every company, yet we talk about the same 5 or 6 all the time, because they're the only ones that worked.

Take random examples from the last few years. Before Legacy, Rhodes was a midcarder, DiBiase was just getting started and Orton was a main eventer. Where are they now?

Before The Corre, Barrett was an upper midcarder, Slater and Gabriel were tag teamers and Jackson was a mid carder, where are they now?

Before the Straight Edge Society, Punk was a main eventer, Luke Gallows was a lowcarder and Joey Mercury was looking for a job. Where are they now?

 

[#tamale]

The IWC sure has bad short term memory....anyone remember DX, the NWO, Fortune, face Four Horsemen....SURE...face factions never work do they? Yeah, they are total s%^t.

The concept of a face faction is not a hyperbole. It's to create matchups with tag teams and singles wrestlers. It's a simple alternative to your "one hero takes down all" option. You guys swear it off like it's this terrible idea with no support to back up your proof. I just gave you 4 face factions that have worked and DIDN'T bury their members or bore the audience. You just admit that they are shit yet you mention ones that have been successful.

A little less revisionist history on your parts would be appreciated.

Face DX was strong, but they are the exception to the rule.

Are you talking about NWO Wolfpac? How did that faction help anybody? How did it work? What did it lead to? Oh yeah, the reformation of the NWO, again.

Flair, Dillon, and Arn have stated that each and every version of the Four Horsemen was watered down after the original incarnation. And again, how did that version of the Four Horsemen do? What did it lead to? Nothing.

But keep those rose colored glasses on

 

[Sandpiper64]

Still no circumstantial evidence to prove any of these statements.....I'm still waiting guys. The "they were mostly heels" argument doesn't hold any weight as they were STILL face factions. Period. End of story. I'm not going to even dignify the TNA comment with a response. You basically just used it as an opportunity to bash a company without proving me wrong.

NWO Wolfpac...WCW was still defeating WWF in ratings when they were a group. Go research it. WCW did not start deteriorating until 1999.

Four Horsemen....You're calling a group with Dean Malenko and Chris Benoit watered down? Well hell, anything would seem watered down after the original Horsemen. That doesn't negate their success at all.

Fortune....elevated everyone in the group especially Beer Money.

The Von Erichs were also a successful face faction. Yes, they were a faction and a family so don't go poo poo'ing that statement when you know it's right.

You all are so quick to believe that all face factions won't be successful then why do you think WWE wants to have the Wyatt Family be a face faction?

If rose colored glasses means I'm an optimist and I believe it will be successful, then, FUCK....maybe I should buy a pair.

 

[#tamale]

The "they were mostly heels" argument doesn't hold any weight as they were STILL face factions.

How can they be heels and faces at the same time?

NWO Wolfpac...WCW was still defeating WWF in ratings when they were a group. Go research it. WCW did not start deteriorating until 1999.

Wolfpac was formed around later April/early May. Here is how the ratings went down starting April 13th, 1998:

WWE: 29 wins
WCW: 9 wins

Two of those wins for WCW were because Raw was on a Saturday.

http://editthis.info/wrestling_ratings_wiki/WWF_Raw_vs._WCW_Monday_Nitro

Four Horsemen....You're calling a group with Dean Malenko and Chris Benoit watered down? Well hell, anything would seem watered down after the original Horsemen. That doesn't negate their success at all.

What success did Benoit or Malenko achieve as a part of the Four Horsemen other than getting meaningless title reigns and getting destroyed by the NWO on a weekly basis?

Fortune....elevated everyone in the group especially Beer Money.

Don't watch TNA. Not because I don't want to, but because it's not available in Mexico.

The Von Erichs were also a successful face faction. Yes, they were a faction and a family so don't go poo poo'ing that statement when you know it's right.

You are right with the Von Erichs. They were successful. However, remember who was running that promotion and what happened with the Von Erichs afterwards.

You all are so quick to believe that all face factions won't be successful then why do you think WWE wants to have the Wyatt Family be a face faction?

That's a rumor on a wrestling website. Don't completely buy into it.

If rose colored glasses means I'm an optimist and I believe it will be successful, then, FUCK....maybe I should buy a pair.

Yet, there is still no proof that other than DX and the Von Erichs to a degree, other face factions have had success. In fact, overall, not many factions have had major success in the wrestling business.

 

[Headman]

I'm sorry. Maybe you guys don't remember the ultimate face faction... The Oddities! I mean come on, they had ICP and a Cartman doll! How can anyone ever top that? (Shakes head) Seriously though, nobody wants to see a faction of traditional baby faces succeed because good guys don't join gangs.

 

[Dum Dum Dudley]

Factions are shit, and the IWC appear totally unable to grasp that. All factions do is bore the audience and bury the members....

Face factions are even worse, because in order for them to 'overcome the odds' they have to be completely smashed apart first. DX is the only group I can think of that were predominantly faces that enjoyed any sustained success, and they started out as heels.

I have to agree with you completely here. Another factor I think hinders a face faction is the numbers game. The Shield and The Wyatt Family's debuts involved them jumping a face and showing dominance. I don't understand how a face stable can be introduced when a 3-on-1 attack is such a heelish thing to do. Do they just walk out together and just announce they are aligned? Does the 'leader' hint that he will be joining forces with someone over the following weeks?

Faces have to overcome the odds, and when you're a stable of 3-4, how do you build a threat to them? They'd be taking on 6-7 people at once! You have potentially 10 people all feuding and who benefits? One or two people and then the other 8 are back to square one.