Toilets cannot face Mecca??

[The Snake]

The idea of there being a god goes against many laws of Science for a start. I mean, all seeing and all powerful? I suppose you have a point in saying it can't be 100% proven he doesn't. But when you look at it, it proves to me that he doesn't, and the evidence in favour of him not existing heavily outweighs the evidence that he does.

Is there not then an irony that most (or a bloody good amount of it) of modern science is based on things that Einstein and Newton said, yet both were very much of a belief that God existed? Here is a quote from the latter.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

I cannot think of a better way to put the way I see the world, we need both, religious people need science for many things, and in it's own way all these atheists need religion, society would not be as good as it is today without religion, or at least in all probability this is the truth, I think to rule out one is sometimes naive, it is more a matter of principles for people to say they are completely at one end of the spectrum, people tend to bunch together and it can make them more of one thing than they actually are.

Evidence is a big factor for me. I need evidence for something to believe it. I agree people should just do what they believe though. Most of the important people in my life all believe in God, and think it's helped them. If that's so, I have no problem with them believing it.

The problem with religion and science is - Is there really any evidence that will last forever, what happens if we prove the Big Bang theory wrong tomorrow? We know things today we did not know yesterday, science proves itself wrong all the time, can evidence ever be proven wrong - Not in my opinion, that is sciences biggest flaw. Religion has a similar problem, things we experience make religion seem wrong, but can we ever prove it is truely wrong - No?

But the fact that anyone would complain about the way a toilet faces is ridiculous. There wouldn't exactly be an international incident if they weren't. Britain need to get over this Political Correctness thing now.

I agree with the latter part, but are they not in a no-win with this whole thing? If they say no, it will be a problem they do not need, if they say yes, they have HBK-aholic going mental, it is a tough dilemma, I think it would be easier just to have toilets facing all sorts of directions, would this not have been the case anyway? I can't see it in the architecture saying all toilets must face the same direction, which happened to be towards Mecca.

But it's not fair and this is not how it should be; it's a reflection of the way the world is going. It needs to be accepted that other cultures do different things to us, but that while we're in there country we accept them.

The world is becoming much more unionised and people are becoming more familiar with other cultures, it means everything is in the spotlight these days. I think part of it is to do with it being more an international event though, it is not a Chinese only thing, people from all nations are competing, if someone really wanted dog, they could get it outside official restaurants, but these places were advised not to serve it, it was not a definite thing though.

I don't think there would have been hassle anyway. I mean, it's causing more hassle that they've done this just to stop something which wouldn't happen anyway. See: this debate.

I thought there were complaints? If there were complaints I assumed upon a turning down of these, you were saying that people were being overly tetchy about it. Who is your main qualm with in all of this - The British who complied or the Muslims who complained?

Would you go to a country that served only meat and dairy if you were a vegan? Are there any countries who actually do this? There is always an option which is for vegans.

Not quite sure what the hell I was going on about here :S

For now. The point is things shouldn't even have to get this far.

As long as it doesn't keep on happening, I don't see the problem.

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The idea of there being a god goes against many laws of Science for a start. I mean, all seeing and all powerful? I suppose you have a point in saying it can't be 100% proven he doesn't. But when you look at it, it proves to me that he doesn't, and the evidence in favour of him not existing heavily outweighs the evidence that he does.

But does it, is it plausible that God was the reason primordial matter existed, I believe it is. If we postulate the existance of God for one moment, we can see the world a lot clearer, if science could explain everything, the same thing would be achieved. I see Atheism as the Religion of the Modern World, I think a lot of atheists (not saying those in this thread are/aren't) follow it due to the fad that it has become, that being said, I think the novelty will wear off and religion will have it's peak again (over here at least, many world places religion is till dominant), I think the two will be in a constant state of flux until both reach an agreement, the truth is uncovered, or one is abolished.

You be surprised how much science is all thoery, especially all the black hole and particle stuff. Im not yes there is a God, but im not saying there isnt either.

100% Right, this is the view I have, I am not bound by any of the 3 labels, Religion, Atheism (crossed with science) or Agnosticism, I would put myself in the middle of a venn diagram of the 3, I think all 3 have interesting ideas, taking parts from each and making them compatible is something that I try to do, often with little success.

Belief comes from the heart, if following moral codes and ethics allows them to lead a better life WITHOUT forcing thier will on other people, so be it.

I wonder if any of these ideas would exist if they were not forced upon people at some point or another, I think it is hard to say they would have much capacity. Everything we believe at an early age was forced upon us, as we mature whether we break from those constraints depends on who we are, sometimes we reach the conclusion that what we were taught from youth was the right thing, sometimes we find the contrary.

Its when one religion demands more than other countries/religioins, thats when it goes to shit.

But this is the problem, ideally it would be better if everyone followed my way of thinking, and in your head, it would be better if they followed your way of thinking, I might have explained this quite awkwardly, but people would always prefer it if people did things the way they did them. I don't drink alcohol, I think it would be better if other people didn't, same with smoking and illegal drugs, and my (and yours, and everyone elses) views on religion and ethics are just as applicable to this rule as anything else.

America hates communism, yet in a TRUE communist state everyone is more or less equal. Black, white, Jew, Christian, you are all considered equal according to Marx

Communist remains a theory that will never be able to become something practically perfect, I think Marx could be right that eventually the world would get to a state where we are all equal, but then what happens, the class system would probably restart up, Marx is a person I have a lot of interest in, he said a lot of clever stuff, whether it will be right I am not sure.

 

[Richard]

Easily. You answered it when you asked why the direction should matter. It shouldn't.Wow, a couple of people believe in a made up God and they may get offended because of toilets facing a certain direction so we'll change things. Do you not see how stupid that is? Shall I get offended now that the toilets DON'T face Mecca? What if I want them to?

That seems a bit harsh to call their God "made up" don't you think?

Edit: My bad, just saw that someone had already picked that up.

I do see how stupid it sounds, I think that sometimes little things like these can cause such a big deal when they are over the smallest things. Surely not all the toilets in the toilet section are facing the one way, around here, I can't think of a single place where there are toilets all facing the one way. Usually they are along one wall and you can usually walk around and find toilets standing in a different direction so they should stop complaining and just use the ones which don't face Mecca.

 

[The Snake]

http://blogs.ft.com/techblog/2008/10/littlebigplanets-little-expressions-cause-big-problems/

I AM SO FURIOUS!!!!!

This sort of adds to the old debate, but I still think that we should blame Sony/The Singer/Media Molecule for this. However, I do sort of understand more where HBK-aholic was coming from, in that it is pedantic and could have been solved in a much easier way without all of this madness. I guess until it directly affects you, you can never really comment on things like this without some sort of uncertainty.