TNA Region, Lawrence Subregion, First Round: (1) John Cena vs. (32) Samoa Joe

[klunderbunker]

This is a first round match in the TNA Region, Lawrence Subregion. It is a standard one on one match held under TNA Rules. It will be held at Allen Fieldhouse, Lawrence, Kansas.

#1. John Cena

Vs.

#32. Samoa Joe

​

Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I've got some specious logic to drop on ya. Gimme a beat.

1) This is the TNA region. TNA's booking often doesn't make sense, right? This is the company that made AJ Styles into the third Nature Boy. Cena doesn't stand a chance in such a ridiculous, nonsense environment.

2) CM Punk beat John Cena. Daniel Bryan beat John Cena. Samoa Joe completes the holy trinity of Ring of Honor prodigies. You know, you've got the one who cut the promo heard around the world, the one who hijacked WrestleMania and the one who was a one time TNA world heavyweight champion.

3) Samoa Joe had a really long unbeaten streak in a company that only gave really long unbeaten streaks to one wrestler a year. Derrick Bateman could also probably beat John Cena (he's very good).

By the way, if this very thread had been posted six years ago, Samoa Joe would have comfortably won. Simpler times.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Kurt Angle is a WWe headliner who came into TNA, won the TNA WHC... and then got stopped by Samoa Joe. Sting is a WCW and TNA Icon who never gave up... until he ran into Samoa Joe.

Joe at his TNA prime was an unstoppable beast; with home field advantage and just like Blue Demon garnered wins over the Rock and Sting in Mexico - in the six sided ring, Joe can get the nod over John.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Kurt Angle is a WWe headliner who came into TNA, won the TNA WHC... and then got stopped by Samoa Joe.

Kurt Angle was fresh off of being transferred to ECW before he came into to WWE. He wasn't the face of professional wrestling.

Sting is a WCW and TNA Icon who never gave up... until he ran into Samoa Joe.

Sting was 104 years old by the time he and Joe faced off.

Joe at his TNA prime was an unstoppable beast; with home field advantage and just like Blue Demon garnered wins over the Rock and Sting in Mexico - in the six sided ring, Joe can get the nod over John.

LOL. No. Joe hasn't even been in the same company with someone on the level of John Cena in his prime.

 

[L@RISANO]

John Cena is practically on the Mount Rushmore of the WWE already and has been the "face that runs the place!" for a decade now.

He is a 15 time World Champion in the WWE and is almost sure to break the great Ric Flair's record in due time.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Kurt Angle was fresh off of being transferred to ECW before he came into to WWE. He wasn't the face of professional wrestling.

Kurt was WHC at Mania and wasn't even pinned there and his last feuds before leaving the company were with Cena, HBK, Taker and Randy Orton. Not exactly small change.

Sting was 104 years old by the time he and Joe faced off.

Irrelevant, Joe made a hero Sting do something he'd never done - tap out!

LOL. No. Joe hasn't even been in the same company with someone on the level of John Cena in his prime.

And yet John Cena has lost to Joe's old running mates in his own backyard, never mind going into a prime Joe's backyard.

 

[Lowdown]

The way I see it, Cena has been the top guyin WWE for the last ten years or so, and has had his fair share of decent matches. And he is a 15 time champ. However, I think those championship reigns are more a reflection of the lack of top stars WWE had over the years as opposed to how good Cena really is. Now I look at Samoa Joe and I see the longest reigning champ in ROH history. I see a guy that has put on more quality matches than Cena. Regardless of the age of competition, you can argue against the feuds Joe had, particularly against Angle. Joe gets my vote.

 

[Dave]

There is absolutely no way that John Cena will lose this match. And nor should he. Don't get me wrong, of all of the TNA talents that have come and gone, I actually rate Joe very highly. I often thought that he should have been a bigger deal and had a better chance at being the top dog. Unfortunately for him, better talents came in and got the shot that perhaps Joe had earned. Kurt Angle, Sting, AJ Styles, all of them were the bigger names in TNA; Joe never had a chance.

Over in Stanford, John Cena has been the face of the biggest wrestling promotion this side of the world. He's been that gave for over a decade. He's beat some of the best wrestlers to have ever stepped through the ropes and shows absolutely no sign of stopping any time soon. Triple H, The Rock, the list could go on and on. At the end of the day, John Cena has did everything there is to do in the WWE. He isn't only on the mount Rushmore of the WWE, he's damn near on the Mount Rushmore of wrestling.

Joe and Cena are in their peak at the same time and have been active in the same generation. Look at their credentials and their legacy and this is a no-brainer.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Kurt was WHC at Mania and wasn't even pinned there and his last feuds before leaving the company were with Cena, HBK, Taker and Randy Orton. Not exactly small change.

He opened the last PPV he was featured on in WWE. When's the last time Cena opened a PPV?

Oh and by the way, Angle beat Joe the first time they faced off.

Irrelevant, Joe made a hero Sting do something he'd never done - tap out!

Again, when he was about 10 years past is prime. Joe wouldn't even be worthy of being in the same ring with Sting in his heyday.

And yet John Cena has lost to Joe's old running mates in his own backyard, never mind going into a prime Joe's backyard.

He's lost to Daniel Bryan and Punk, two guys who are ALSO better than Samoa Joe.

Cena's faced the best of the best in hostile situations. I mean, real hostile situations. 75,000 people in Miami, 15,000 people in Chicago, 15,000 people in Toronto, etc. I highly doubt 900 tourists in Orlando who aren't even watching the show will phase him.

 

[Tastycles]

Oh dear God, people are actually voting for Samoa Joe? Samoa Joe wrestled a load of has beens and never weres in a company that couldn't sell out its free tickets. John Cena is someone who has actually transcended wrestling, in a way Booker T could only dream about. Joe looks like he struggles with the ring stairs, if I'm honest.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

He opened the last PPV he was featured on in WWE. When's the last time Cena opened a PPV?

Yeahhhh... against Randy Orton in a PPV were Cena defending the WWe Belt against Sabu was overshadowed by DX vs the Spirit Squad - brilliantly booked PPV. Angle was headlining PPVs when luminaries like SCSA, the Rock, Foley, HHH, Taker, HBK, Lesnar, Hogan were about - Cena just can't compare to that.

Oh and by the way, Angle beat Joe the first time they faced off.

He also beat John, in fact Angle is 5:3 against Cena.

Again, when he was about 10 years past is prime. Joe wouldn't even be worthy of being in the same ring with Sting in his heyday.

And yet 6 years later, Sting will now be in a prominent WrestleMania match. Name one wrestler who made a hero Sting tap out...

He's lost to Daniel Bryan and Punk, two guys who are ALSO better than Samoa Joe.

YOUR opinion, facts and kayfabe suggest otherwise.

Cena's faced the best of the best in hostile situations. I mean, real hostile situations. 75,000 people in Miami

He Lost.

15,000 people in Chicago

Lost.

15,000 people in Toronto, etc.

Phew, at least he won this one.

I highly doubt 900 tourists in Orlando who aren't even watching the show will phase him.

Erm... it's in the Allen Fieldhouse, Lawrence, Kansas which holds significantly more than 900... and it's not that John doesn't have a blot on his record against a Joe-esque character when he's faced them under their company's banner in a small locale; does the name RVD ring any bells?

Oh dear God, people are actually voting for Samoa Joe? Samoa Joe wrestled a load of has beens and never weres in a company that couldn't sell out its free tickets. John Cena is someone who has actually transcended wrestling, in a way Booker T could only dream about. Joe looks like he struggles with the ring stairs, if I'm honest.

Or sarcastic. So Angle was a has been at 39 coming off defeating BERRRROOOCKKKK LESNAR (God help Cena, he's only got a year and change until he also joins that scrapheap age)... never was AJ Styles who has now figureheaded Japan's top promotion twice... was Christian a has been or a never was when he was in TNA before returning to the WWe to exceed his first run... and Sting, who 6 years after tapping to Joe is heading to WrestleMania to have a headline hyped match.

Transcended how? The majority of people will just stare at you if you say John Cena. He is the biggest star of the last decade... but it's been a poor ass decade. People who don't follow wrestling have absolutely no idea who he is.

 

[Bagpipes]

I really do not like John Cena, but if I'm being honest, I'd never vote a guy who made his name in TNA over anyone who had even miniscule success in any of the American territories, Japan, WCW or WWF/E.

TNA, and I know this will get a lot of heat, always has been and always will be a sub par promotion and as such, shouldn't really be in any discussion about the "greatest" or "best" of anything. That's not to say some great superstars have worked there and probably had great matches and programs, but I haven't seen any of them, nor really desire to.

Cena wins with an STF in 30 seconds.

 

[Tastycles]

Or sarcastic. So Angle was a has been at 39 coming off defeating BERRRROOOCKKKK LESNAR (God help Cena, he's only got a year and change until he also joins that scrapheap age)...

No, Samoa Joe actually does start to sweat on his way to the ring. The only fat bastard to connect with a wrestling audience was the highly charismatic Dusty Rhodes. The rest, Joe included, make do as novelty acts or aren't popular.

He beat Brock Lesnar in 2003. Kurt Angle was by the time he reached TNA a drug addicted has been. That's why WWE have shown no interest in him ever since and he had been drafted to ECW before he got fired for not going to rehab.

ever was AJ Styles who has now figureheaded Japan's top promotion twice...

Sentences like this are why I got Scott Norton in this year's tournament.

was Christian a has been or a never was when he was in TNA before returning to the WWe to exceed his first run...

A never was. Christian has never feuded seriously with John Cena in WWE, despite the career crossover because he isn't sufficiently relevant. I love Christian, but the fact that one of your big name players on this list is someone the WWE wouldn't ever feud with Cena is pretty damnig.

and Sting, who 6 years after tapping to Joe is heading to WrestleMania to have a headline hyped match.

Mr. T has headlined WrestleMania. Sting's match against Triple H will have a sense of occasion. Sting in TNA looked for all the world a guy better than his surroundings.

Transcended how? The majority of people will just stare at you if you say John Cena. He is the biggest star of the last decade... but it's been a poor ass decade. People who don't follow wrestling have absolutely no idea who he is.

John Cena has had films in the cinema and released a top 20 Billboard album. He's on cereal boxes and razor adverts, and has guest starred in loads of sitcoms and sketch shows. The sole thing on Samoa Joe's wikipedia that is not directly about wrestling is this "Seanoa made brief appearances on the American version of the television show Distraction, participating in the round where wrestlers perform moves on contestants while they answer questions." So the only thing he's done outside of the ring is, err.. wrestle.

 

[deem]

Joe deserves some respect, he's got an 11-13 competitive record against Kurt Angle. Unfortunately that wasn't prime Kurt (not a mile off, sure), and nor does prime Kurt compare to the phenom that is John Cena. His longevity is now legendary - it's hard to see while it's current day, but Hulkamania ran from what, 1983-1993 in WWF? 10 years? Cena has ALREADY been the Ace for 10 years. You could make a decent argument that Hogan continued that run as the N.A Ace in WCW (for what was still arguably the biggest promotion to be fair) for another few years - Cena isn't gonna retire in the next 2-3 years though, so it seems safe to say he'll break Hogan's time as the best and be considered the most dominant Ace N.A has seen since Sammartino 30 years before. To do this modern day is hugely impressive, with the sheer pressure on the main event with the wealth of talent in an organisation with a monopoly on the business.

The best argument for Joe was inadvertently made by a Cena supporter, in that he's thrice lost in hostile environments (ONS, WM28, Chicago). The fact that that's so notable is testament to Mr Cena's win/loss record, so protected is he that everyone easily recalls his rare losses. Could it happen to Joe in TNA? Yeah, maybe. It's not impossible, Joe is credible and similar (inferior) wrestlers have caused Cena some problems before (umaga, Sheamus). I think it's too much of a suspension of logic to book one of the most popular superstars in the entire tournament to go out to joe in the first round though, so I'm avoiding.

I'm close to holding off for the first time this tournament to see if arguments can persuade me, but i think it's just too absurd for me to ever change my mind. Cena wins.