TNA has succeeded where WWE hasn't...

[LSN80]

In creating a legitimate women's division, not only with compelling storylines, but with solid matches to back it up. I suppose one could argue that TNA has TOO much going on in the women's division, but how could that possibly be a bad thing? If one angle fails, you have another that can take its place.

1. Tara/Mickie/Madison Rayne- Mickie made it clear from day one that she wants the Knockouts championship held by Madison Rayne. Tara has made it clear that if someone wants to get to Madison, they have to go through Tara first. Not only that, but they've created the storyline that Mickie "cost" Tara her job in WWE. Last night, they had a good brawl that security couldn't pull apart and apparently lasted for hours. Chapter one in what should be a long feud.

2. Velvet wants to be "more then T & A"- Since the BP have reunited, Velvet has been attempting to show that she can put on decent matches, rather then just be eye candy. She went as far as on last week's Impact to refuse to allow Angelina to accompany her to the ring, and showed promise in yet was appeared to be another crushing defeat to Sarita. This actually began when Velvet and Lacey lost a tag team title match to Hamada and Taylor a month ago, so they've been building this storyline slowly. And it's been compelling.

3. Angelina and Winter(aka Katie Lea) Every time Angelina is alone, she is "visited" by Winter, who seems quite obsessed w Ms. Love. Winter is creepy, but it's a unique gimmick, and quite frankly, a good one. Not sure where this is headed, but again, it's very compelling.

4. Lacey training Miss Tessmacher- Ok, so this hasn't been much of a storyline, and is chuckle(or groan) worthy, but the announcers have been mentioning Lacey's absence as a result of her training Miss T on a weekly basis, so obviously this is leading somewhere. Obviously Lacey is off training herself, which isn't a bad thing.

5. Taylor and Hamada- They only appear sporadically, but when they do, they fall into the category of "women putting on good matches." They're the KO tag champs, so they still have relevance.

Obviously, I presented this with rose colored glasses, and there certainly are flaws. Feel free to point them out. But without a doubt, TNA has succeeded where WWE has not. WWE's women's division is LayCool with their mean girls act and whoever they're belittling this month.

I dont want to hear, "The womens division doesn't matter", or "I don't care about women's wrestling." If you feel that way, dont freaking post. What Im asking is this:

Has TNA succeeded where WWE has not in creating compelling, watchable storylines for women's wrestling? Or are they oversaturating the division by bringing in too many workers for one to keep up with so many storylines from week to week? Has TNA done a good job with these storylines? Or do you prefer WWE's plain and simple approach?

 

[dman1373]

I'm pretty sure about 10 years ago the WWE created a great women's division(they had an alright division before that.) . Over the next five years after they acquired lita, trish, jazz, Jacqueline, ivory, molly holly, victoria, and at the end Mickie James.
So to say wwe has not succeeded at having a great women's division is rubbish.

That however is not discrediting TNA. They do have a really good, women's divison right now and have the story lines to back it up. They are alot better then wwe is right now, but to make it seem like laycool are not entertaining is also rubbish.

 

[GameOver]

you are incorrect in it only being 10yrs ago they created a great womens division though.
30yrs ago they had just as good a womens division as the attitude era, just none of them were glamourous, well except maybe Rockin Robin and the Glamour Girls and those girls didn't need sex to sell, they could fight.

about the only thing TNA does somewhat well atm is a good group of female "wrestlers" though the execution of the storylines leading to the matches is rubbish. and for ages it was still just the same 6 or so each week arguing over the same thing each show.

it's simple WWE has moved away from womens wrestling along time ago to having women as the eye candy who just happen to be able to do "some" wrestling, realistically Women's wrestling doesn't make the money anyway and sells little merchandise so why would they dedicate much time to them. IMO the only reason it was revised in the attitude era was for the sex value and the group at the time were exceptional as a bonus no doubt.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

I'm pretty sure about 10 years ago the WWE created a great women's division(they had an alright division before that.) . Over the next five years after they acquired lita, trish, jazz, Jacqueline, ivory, molly holly, victoria, and at the end Mickie James.
So to say wwe has not succeeded at having a great women's division is rubbish.

That however is not discrediting TNA. They do have a really good, women's divison right now and have the story lines to back it up. They are alot better then wwe is right now, but to make it seem like laycool are not entertaining is also rubbish.

Yeah I think he meant that they succeeded with that today, not some 10 years ago. Nothing beats THAT women's division imo.

And, it's quite subjective, but I can't stand LayCool. I get the whole preppy girl gimmick they've got going on, and I understand that a lot of little girls will associate it with pretty chicks in their high-school, yada yada, but it's hella annoying. It's annoying in a Cookie kind of way.

I agree with the O.P. TNA has succeeded where WWE has failed in the last 10 years. I'm glad TNA actually listened to the fans and listened to reason, put some work into signing some quality women wrestlers and rejuvenated the K.O's division. It's ironic that the cream of the crop right now are two former WWE Divas, though. Just shows that WWE just doesn't know how to use people and incorporate them in a right way. All the WWE Rejects' talents were allowed to pop out and shine in TNA, why that never happened in WWE is beyond me, but nontheless - props for that, even though I would've preferred it if TNA just scrapped the women's division and put the same ammount of work into resurrecting the X-Division.

 

[LSN80]

I'm pretty sure about 10 years ago the WWE created a great women's division(they had an alright division before that.) . Over the next five years after they acquired lita, trish, jazz, Jacqueline, ivory, molly holly, victoria, and at the end Mickie James.
So to say wwe has not succeeded at having a great women's division is rubbish.

The here and now man, the here and now. WWE DID have a great women's division. But they are failing MISERABLY at it right now. You call one minute matches between women who can't execute their finishers properly success? Thats what WWE is right now. As for the women you listed, they're either retired, or working for TNA.

That however is not discrediting TNA. They do have a really good, women's divison right now and have the story lines to back it up. They are alot better then wwe is right now, but to make it seem like laycool are not entertaining is also rubbish.

I didnt say LayCool wasn't entertaining. I said they do the "mean girls" act, "belittle their opponent", and they move on to their next opponent each month. That's not discrediting them, but where's the storyline in that? Where are the quality matches? They have neither.
And like Zevon pointed out, alot of people freaking hate Laycool and their teenager mentality. It's personal opinion, but Im one of them.

 

[Terminal Sledgehammer]

TNA has the best Womens Division that I am aware of.

3 story lines that in are solid, A division that is full of talent. (Lacey is off air at the moment as already pointed out.). Now I will look at the other side of the table.

We have Lay-cool acting immature and making fun of one of the few good Diva's in the WWE, Natalya.

Even the name makes more sense. Knockouts sound like they can kick ass in a sexy way. Divas sound like they can only bitch and complain, but look good doing it.

Bottom Line: The Knockouts are waaay better than the Diva's.

On a side note the Knockouts aren't the only thing that is better look at the Tag Divisions

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I actually don't care about women's wrestling, but I'd still like to address your thread, if that's still OK with you?

In order:

1. Has TNA succeeded where WWE has not in creating compelling, watchable story lines for women's wrestling?

Yes, they have, and that's because of the fact that the majority of TNA's female division are great workers — namely Love, Tara, James and Katie Lea (TBD). Great workers make for great feuds which make for great wrestling which makes for great television. It's a very simple process. The greater the talent you employ, the greater the chance it can produce for you. This reason alone stands tall above what WWE is producing, because WWE lacks working talent that the fans can get behind.

2. Are they oversaturating the division by bringing in too many workers for one to keep up with so many story lines from week-to-week?

Yes, and no.

Yes, technically speaking they are over-saturating the division, and eventually that could come back to bite them in the ass just as it did when it created a similar glass ceiling with Insert Wrestler Here v. Awesome Kong (e.g. David v. Goliath I, II, III, IV, VI, VII, etc.), but at the same time the answer is no, because they also aren't employing any genetic freaks like Kong, which prevents them from booking themselves into a corner with any of the performers they have under contract right now.

3. Has TNA done a good job with these story lines?

I think so, yeah, considering I'm hardly a fan of women's wrestling and I'm finding myself watching more and more of their segments, but that's just me and the opinion of one mark, not the collective.

Do I prefer WWE's plain and simple approach?

I don't prefer the WWE's approach to almost anything, especially not the idea that you can create makeshift stars from talentless generics who you simply push to the point that fans have no choice in accepting, so no, I don't prefer it — I detest it.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I'd be more impressed at this supposed victory if the WWE had actually put forth an effort into making a serious women's division in the past 10 years. Compared to what they have now, the days of Trish Stratus & Lita do very much seem to be serious but there hasn't really been all that much to crow about.

During the Attitude Era, the Divas were little more than a cheap excuse to do various tits & ass segments. Bikini contests, lingerie matches, pillow fights, etc. made up much of the most memorable aspects of the Divas. That's not to say that they didn't have women that could wrestle because they did and they still do now. Now, the Divas are little more than filler. You will see some good Diva matches every now and then, usually on Superstars, but there are almost always no storylines and no actual feuds. Most of the time, the Divas are put into throwaway matches and that's the sum total of their invovlement. To say or even think that the WWE has legitimately tried to make the Divas into anything remotely relevant this decade is being extremely kind.

As for the Knockout Division, it hasn't been much to crow about this year. I do agree that there does seem to be a renewed level of energy and drive about it, but I'm not ready to jump on board and delcare that the Knockouts are back. The stuff with Mickie James & Tara has been a interlude in what has basically been the TNA Beautiful People Division for a good deal of this year. But they still have a lot of work to do if they want to it back to where it once was. The match with Sarita & Velvet last Thursday was a good example. It was a bad match that the crowd was completely dead over, the Knockout singles and tag titles are completely worthless at this point in time and a lot of the best in-ring wrestlers among the women are very rarely used on television.

In the end, I do agree that the Knockout Division overall has been better than the Divas in the WWE, but that rings of a hollow victory to me as the Divas have never been particularly relevant in the WWE, nor has the WWE really put forth major effort into making them so.

 

[Dzone]

At the present time I 100% agree TNA has a better Women's and Tag Division than WWE but I agree with other posters saying the WWE division was pretty good in the "olden days" BUT I also agree with literally everything IDR said xD, and now ... I agree with what JackHammer said... can't help it i'm in an agree-ing mood!

 

[MoneyMack]

Totally agree that TNA has a better crop of female wrestlers then WWE. Thats unfortunately cuz Vince doesnt give a shit. Same thing goes for tag-teams. I hate VKM for not pushing tag-teams...but I could care less about the ladies. All I wanna see is how hot u look tonite! & make sure I never miss a Beautiful People entrance!

Bottom line for me is this tho: I watch wrestling to be entertained! & Laycool entertains me more then anything i've seen a knockout do. If you cant stand listening to them, then that usually means thier doing a helluva job. Can it get annoying? Hell yes! But thats the point, isnt it??

The most entertaining KOs to me (besides just for tits & ass) are Dafney & Hamada. But especially Dafney! Yet for some reason...I havent seen her on Impact in months!! Maybe shes hurt (I dont know) But shes fun to watch & so is Hamada!

I could be wrong- but it seems to me: The KO division is turning more into the Divas division on a daily basis. Pushing the better wrestlers/workers to the back...in order to get hotter less talented KO's more TV time.

 

[fenfool]

Have to agree, TNA's KO division is far better than the WWE Diva division. LayCool is actually a good gimmick, IMO, but everyone else is being wasted...I can't even tell you who else is there other than Gail Kim and the Bella Twins. It's nice to see the twins wrestle a bit after being used as guest host decorations for the last year or so, but that still doesn't help the division get any kind of identity. I think the WWE has not really done the women justice, and I hate that they call them Divas...the term doesn't bring to mind great wrestling ability. It brings to mind Bette Midler.

I would be far, far happier with the KO division if Roxxi, Awesome Kong & Gail Kim were still there...hopefully they are brought back at some point. Roxxi seems to resurface every few months for a couple of shows, so hopefully she will stick sometime soon. But I do like the talent they have now...TBP is a gimmick that is over, Tara is great, Mickie James is fantastic...honestly, the booking of this group is kind of a mess right now, but I do hope that everything settles, and everyone is given their chance to shine.

 

[KoC417]

The women's division has been and always will be an absolute joke IMO...I use that time to go get another beer, another hamburger or take a piss break before the REAL action resumes. However I feel this topic response worthy...so here we go!



Has TNA succeeded where WWE has not in creating compelling, watchable storylines for women's wrestling?

Indeed they have. If you are speaking of NOW yes. But you can't overlook the past. WWE has had a very good womens division over the years. The problem? They never drew for ratings! And the few times they did didn't account for the hundreds of times they didn't.



Are they oversaturating the division by bringing in too many workers for one to keep up with so many storylines from week to week?

As long as the storylines continue to make sense and aren't trying to do 50 different things in 1 then it's difficult to over-saturate them. If each KO has a different thing going on and TNA can continue to not mix everything up and screw things up let them. I'm sure there are several hundred women out there that celebrate this rebirth of the women's division. After all "anything men can do women can do too"


Has TNA done a good job with these storylines? Or do you prefer WWE's plain and simple approach?

I still use the KO segments mainly for a bathroom break. But since Mickie is there I stick around a bit more, not for the storylines but because Mickie is damn hot!

Oh but to answer your um..question... Unique storylines are always good. If they've never been duplicated the sky is the limit. If TNA can create storylines that aren't recycled garbage from old TNA/NWA/WCW/WWF/WWE then I'll take those. Otherwise if they are using the recycled routine that's pretty much WWE's womens division right now...

 

[Rampage Bentley]

I guess I'm gonna be the black sheep right now....

TNA's women's division blows, not that WWE's is better, it's certainly not, but TNA's division is pretty much the Beautiful People and whoever they're tagging with/feuding with at that time. A year ago TNA had an AMAZING women's division with ODB, Tara, Awesome Kong, Roxxi, Sarita and Taylor Wilde and others. All of them were strong. TNA's division is currently just a shell of what it used to be.

 

[Malenko316]

KO vs Divas is rather like the British Empire in Africa. The British were successful because they had guns and years of training while the opposition had some sharp fruit and no training. KOs (on the whole) are better trained in the ring and armed by creative with at least some ideas that might work. The Divas have Laycool. Under normal circumstances such a fight would be called off on humanitarian grounds.

That said, I still have a few gripes. Firstly, some posters have said booking is based solely on skill and not on T & A value - if that is true, why have Madison and Lacey been front and center, while the most skilled workers, Sarita, Davney, Melissa Anderson (Raisha) and most all Ayuko Hamada, been languishing in the weak link tag div or have dissappeared completely? Likewise, why would you allow the biggest (literally) talent in womens wrestling in Kong leave? If you wanted to created a new, more credible Chyna esc legend, that was the opportunity. The only saving grace being VKM wouldn't dream of hiring her.

Finally, yes, the E doesn't compete because there is little draw in womens wrestling outside Mexico and Japan, but here's the thing, as TNA is learning, the reason those countries have women that draw is because they are have a large pool of well trained talent. No surprise that some of the best performers, Kong, Hamada, Sarita and KLB (i think) have backgrounds there. If you invest in good performers than you can trust them not to fuck up, on the mic or in the ring, and trust them to handle more complex (and probably slightly ill conceived) material from creative. If the E invested in people like Melissa Anderson, MsChif, Daizee Haise and Sarah Del Rey, they could create a good division and it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle. Likewise it goes downward if you bury Gail Kim and Nattie etc.

Oh, maybe it's the vicodin I've been taking the last 15yrs, but this 'golden era' in the WWE? All I seem to remember is cheap (and ironic) TnA jokes, bikini contests etc. Maybe what people mean by golden era is the golden stream of an era of talent being pissed away.

 

[Vendetta487]

I disagree. TNA has not succeeded at ANYTHING!! The women's division is a little better but who the hell actually cares? If a good womens division is all TNA can brag about then that is a damn shame. Maybe they should come up with some kind of angles that actually entertain people. Saying TNA has succeeded in creating a good womens division is like saying that the Buffalo Bills have done well on special teams. The product still sucks and always seems like a cluster fuck just thrown together to try and fill 2 hours. TNA sucks so bad. I cant bare to watch more than once a month. There are only a few bright spots in TNA suck as The Pope, Anderson... and thats about it. TNA better hope Kurt Angle can come back soon because the product is horrendous. They fucked up one of the best angles they had in a while when they had Angle trying to take out the top 10. That angle made sense and was interesting and then they go and scrap it for this new Hogan group headlined by an overweight crackhead. TNA sucks and has very few redeemable qualities.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

well TNA has actually attempted to create a female divison, this is the essential difference. WWE has only made one feud that can go on IN THE WHOLE OF THEIR COMPANY involving females, and as proven by the raw results that have just come through. All raw divas are locked into random matches with the significance equal to a superstars match.

But it's the same with the tag team divison. WWE has attempted to dismantle their tag team divison team by team and have been very successful in doing so, although their motives are far more questionable. TNA therefore by default have a better tag divison than WWE, because WWE doesnt have one. That and besides the fact TNA has a very good tag division regardless of external context.

So it is the same basically with divas, WWE have attempted to make one thing, and that is laycool, and every other thing that goes on in the whole female divison is there for a little bit of eye-candy, and the most fractional amount of entertainment (I'm talking things like the way in which the bellas win matches for example, very drole). But naturally it isn't just that, TNA as mentionned also happens to have a high concentration of just undoubtably good females like mickie and tara, not to mention people they havent even used much like hamada and sarita. So yep TNA has succeeded, but WWE hasnt failed, they have succeeded in drawing attention AWAY from their hard working women. Its a shame but it's their prorogative.

 

[LSN80]

WOW!!! another FUCKED UP thread by a TNA SYMPATHIZER! TNA's KO DIVISION would NOT be what it is now if it wasn't for the wwe's divjects(diva rejects) and let me guess???? A WWE storyline that TNA is doing with 2 FORMER DIVA'S FROM WWE!!! what i am saying is.... IF IT WAS NOT FOR THE WWE DIVAS TNA's KO DIVISION WOULD HAVE NEVER EXISTED! but i will say this TNA's K.O DIVISION IS BETTER THAN THE WWE DIVAS DIVISION! in fact THE TNA KO DIVISION IS BETTER THAN TNA WRESTLING AS A WHOLE!

And if it hadn't been for "insert promotion here" wwe would never have existed. we could go back and forth and you could continue to make an ass out of yourself. The point of the thread obviously went WAY over your head. All Im suggesting is that over, say, the past year, TNA has succeeded in a way that WWE has not. I like GOOD wrestling, I don't care which company puts it on. Obviously not the perspective u have. Imbecile.

JEFF HARDY---couldn't draw a decent crowd as TNA CHAMP!!!....only 300 people shows up at a TNA event,the next night....600 plants!!! the next night....700 sheep!!! LOLLOLLOLLOL! if he was the WWE or WORLD CHAMP!! 5,000-45,000 would've shown up!!! PROOF....WWW.WRESTLENEWZ.COM and F4Wonline.com!!

Can I ask what the hell that has to do with womens wrestling? I don't care what Dave Meltzer or Bryan Alvarez thinks about drawing power of the world champion here-im referring to womens wrestling. TNA has done a great job with it-WWE hasn't. Thats my point in this thread. Focus......

TNA's SHIP IS SINKING FAST!!! AND PRETTY SOON WWE WILL PICK UP THAT SINKING SHIP AND MAKE TNA WATCHABLE AGAIN AS A 3rd BRAND!!! lol!

Did you get that from the Wrestling Observers website too? again, this thread was and is about womens wrestling. Just get the fuck out of here.

Originally Posted by LeGendKiLLa2010
no one cares about womens wrestling

Then why did you bother to waste your time to read, and post in, a thread about womens wrestling?

 

[smoke-dawg]

dude i have been a wwe fan for 20 years i hated wcw and ecw but trutherly i never gave them a chance, but since this pg rating wwe has become so crap! i started watching tna and damn tna is so much better at the moment, the womans (knockout's) division is not the only thing tna has 1 upped wwe the tag division and the stables, wwe is dead to me now

 

[JohnOldSnake4]

Yes, and I find it depressing that with women like Beth Phoenix, Gail Kim, Melina and Natalya on the WWE roster WWE has really never used either of them to close to their potential. Instead we have LayCool, who are about the most annoying thing I've seen in recent years in WWE rolling over Melina, now Natalya, before them Mickie. I actually think Layla has looked okay in the ring against Nattie Neidhart recently, though I feel that McCool is only where she is because of her association with the Undertaker (she doesn't do anything for me in the ring whatsoever I'm afraid). Not that I'm really knocking that specifically as the same can be said for MANY superstars (Sheamus, McIntyre and Barrett come to mind and two of those three are really entertaining me right now).

Now TNA, which I only watch intermittently at least want to give female wrestler's a chance to succeed, which is I think the key area that makes their women's division so much better, whereas WWE has buried Melina and Nattie recently, Beth is out injured but before that I felt like she was really not being utilised properly (for one she excels as a heel) and the fact that we see the Bellas - who almost never actually do anything - way more than Gail Kim is an affront in my view. WWE just doesn't give the goood female WRESTLERS a chance to succeed. It's all diva-focused and what I mean by that is that WWE looks for attractive women who are fairly athletic and fit into a certain attitude. Few of them can actually wrestle. This depresses me as the ones that can are by and large completely ignored. The fact that women like Tara, Mickie and Katie-Lea are being featured in TNA much more substantially than WWE ever used them, and when Gail Kim was there the same was true for her, and thriving... shows quite conclusively that TNA has the superior women's division, and all TNA is really doing is putting in the effort and giving these wrestlers some time to tell stories in the ring.

 

[WAR VET]

I hate womens wrestling but i do think that TNA is doing all they can to have a great womens division. I dont think they should be putting so much time and money into it all though, I'd say 1/4 of Impact is dedicated to the KO with is just rediculous. TNA is doing it bigger and better as far as the womens divisions go right now but it comes with a price I think...

 

[LSN80]

I disagree. TNA has not succeeded at ANYTHING!! .

Then how have they been in business for 8 years? The women have had something to do with that, especially in the last two years. They've main evented Impact's, and had the highest rated segments on the show.

The women's division is a little better but who the hell actually cares? If a good womens division is all TNA can brag about then that is a damn shame. Maybe they should come up with some kind of angles that actually entertain people.

I think I listed 5 angles in my OP, you dolt.

Saying TNA has succeeded in creating a good womens division is like saying that the Buffalo Bills have done well on special teams. The product still sucks and always seems like a cluster fuck just thrown together to try and fill 2 hours.

Then why post in a thread about womens wrestling? Go bash them somewhere else and get your ass kicked somewhere else by other guys who enjoy TNA and know the product.

TNA sucks so bad. I cant bare to watch more than once a month. There are only a few bright spots in TNA suck as The Pope, Anderson... and thats about it. TNA better hope Kurt Angle can come back soon because the product is horrendous. They fucked up one of the best angles they had in a while when they had Angle trying to take out the top 10. That angle made sense and was interesting and then they go and scrap it for this new Hogan group headlined by an overweight crackhead. TNA sucks and has very few redeemable qualities.

One question: What the hell did this have to do with womens wrestling? I dont understand why you would bother to post in this thread like an imbecile about something that has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. Honestly, its rediculous. Take your shit somewhere else.

 

[Navi]

I disagree. TNA has not succeeded at ANYTHING!! The women's division is a little better but who the hell actually cares? If a good womens division is all TNA can brag about then that is a damn shame.

TNA isn't bragging about it's Knockout's division that's just the subject of this thread. I personally agree that the Knockout's were better when Kong, Kim and ODB were there, but with the addition of Mickie James recently, the division will come back.

Maybe they should come up with some kind of angles that actually entertain people. Saying TNA has succeeded in creating a good womens division is like saying that the Buffalo Bills have done well on special teams. The product still sucks and always seems like a cluster fuck just thrown together to try and fill 2 hours.

I used to think the same thing about TNA, it was car crash TV at it's finest, but it is the best product being put on TV right now. The WWE, which I am also a fan of, is stale as shit. TNA's tag team division is also fantastic. I mean they actually have tag teams, not just random wrestler's thrown together at the last minute. The tag team division in the WWE is the worst I've seen in years.

TNA sucks so bad. I cant bare to watch more than once a month. There are only a few bright spots in TNA suck as The Pope, Anderson... and thats about it. TNA better hope Kurt Angle can come back soon because the product is horrendous. They fucked up one of the best angles they had in a while when they had Angle trying to take out the top 10. That angle made sense and was interesting and then they go and scrap it for this new Hogan group headlined by an overweight crackhead. TNA sucks and has very few redeemable qualities.

The Pope and Anderson combined with the Hardy heel turn are making TNA great to watch lately. By the way how do you know how much TNA sucks if you don't watch it?