TNA Files Lawsuit Against WWE

[SinCityBlitz]

If WWE wanted inside info why not just get it from Flair? Or better yet since contract info is so easy to get why bother doing something like this at all? I have no doubts that Vince would do something like this because good businessmen don't get to the top playing nice. But it just makes no sense to sneak around trying to get info that you could get very easily through other methods.

This is going to drag on through the courts for so long it will eventually be dropped. It just seems like a waste of time and money on TNA's part.

 

[cult_of_icecream_bar]

If vince truly wanted info about TNA insiders,he'd just read the dirt sheets.I know all the info here arent a 100% viable,still why spend money on some one when you can get the info for free.The fact of flair and shelly leaving and WWE approaching them are co incidental.Talking about lawsuits,how about those early years of insulting the WWE on national television each week?If wwe filed lawsuits against 'em,TNA would be running for their money.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

If vince truly wanted info about TNA insiders,he'd just read the dirt sheets.I know all the info here arent a 100% viable,still why spend money on some one when you can get the info for free.The fact of flair and shelly leaving and WWE approaching them are co incidental.Talking about lawsuits,how about those early years of insulting the WWE on national television each week?If wwe filed lawsuits against 'em,TNA would be running for their money.

Last I checked, pot shots weren't against the law. The idea that WWE would file a lawsuit over such a ridiculous notion is... frankly, ridiculous.

And you'd have to be incredibly naïve to think that dirt sheets get even half their information correctly, or that ANYTHING that breaks here isn't well known by either company well before hand.

 

[MB1025]

Here is the thing.


The WWE hired this guy in January or February. They then fired him in April. So unless he gave them this information in April the WWE sat on this for 1-3 months, then fired the guy after, and waited 3 more weeks after the firing to inform TNA.

This lawsuit is more to protect TNA's future. WWE now has all the contractual information on every TNA wrestler who signed a deal in 2011 and prior. That means when ever they want they can contact any wrestler 2-3 months before their contract is up and undercut TNA. TNA is trying to put a stop to that.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

Here is the thing.


The WWE hired this guy in January or February. They then fired him in April. So unless he gave them this information in April the WWE sat on this for 1-3 months, then fired the guy after, and waited 3 more weeks after the firing to inform TNA.

This lawsuit is more to protect TNA's future. WWE now has all the contractual information on every TNA wrestler who signed a deal in 2011 and prior. That means when ever they want they can contact any wrestler 2-3 months before their contract is up and undercut TNA. TNA is trying to put a stop to that.

That is normally how the wrestling business works. The WWF knew 3 months before Jericho's contract expired that he was coming to the WWF. Ditto Big Show. This is nothing new. Nash negotiated a contract with WCW when he was still under contract to the WWF. The thing is that wrestlers are allowed to talk about their contracts.

In order for TNA to win this case they have to prove that the WWE used the info against them in a harmful way. That is going to be damn near impossible because who left TNA and went to the WWE? The rumors are Matt Morgan and Shelley. Neither has signed and MM has been pretty vocal about his contract.

 

[GameOver]

sounds like clutching at straws to me. and they need money so hoping WWE will just pay the fine and be done with it.

Seriously how ******ed are they?

so we are to expect and believe that when they get talent from WWE that said talent doesn't spill the beans on what goes on in WWE behind the scenes? and vice versa. Get over it, it's called business, if you can't handle it, leave.

sure Vince could give a flying fark what happens and who's in TNA anyway, all he's concerned with is what will make him more money. as for contracts well that would be common knowledge between the stars and there managers and open to discussion when someone else comes calling.

can't be too hard to find when the news are posted on sites all over the internet about backstage news from both sides and details of stars contracts, don't have to have insider information to discover that.

and lastly if anything, TNA's beef is with this reject that both companies let go and not with WWE.

 

[Rayne]

This lawsuit is more to protect TNA's future. WWE now has all the contractual information on every TNA wrestler who signed a deal in 2011 and prior. That means when ever they want they can contact any wrestler 2-3 months before their contract is up and undercut TNA. TNA is trying to put a stop to that.

This is what you have been told is the issue. This is not the issue. This is a smokescreen.

For the longest time (somewhere around 'ever'), when someone is under contract to one party but wishes to explore his options with another, he'll do something called "putting out feelers". It means having people who aren't you inquire casually about the possibility of a deal. You can discover if the other party has a desire for your services, without the risk of talking to them yourself and alienating your current employer.

Seeing as this practice has been going on since we started growing crops in rows, when TNA/IW says they're trying to protect the information on contract status, they're bluffing. To a small extent, this is true, but the usefulness of this information is limited. Considering you'll know if a guy is coming out of contract soon because he'll be sending cohorts your way if he is, the only useful information you get is who's under contract for a very long time; and most of that information is publicly available anyways with a quick google search.

Here's what the issues REALLY are:

1) The WWE knows how much TNA/IW is paying their performers. This is the biggie, because the WWE can offer people they'd like a contract- at the appropriate time- which improves on their TNA/IW offer, while lowballing what they might have received otherwise. This is the Big One, and what makes this case legally worth pursuing. The WWE has an insane amount of leverage because of this; leverage that they shouldn't.

2) TNA/IW wants to stop this sort of issue in the future. The most powerful way to change someone's behavior is to bring them to court.

I'm nowhere near familiar enough with the case to comment on the likelihood of a winner. Strange shit happens in deliberation rooms, anyways, and the decisions frequently sound insane to anyone who wasn't in the jury. But the issue that is being sold here is not the issue that's occurring.

 

[Toewser]

It's ironic that TC posts a cute little picture about a 'Common WWE fanboy' and then goes on a rant on how this is a toal valid lawsuit for TNA based off of a dirtsheet.
TNA can't handle their own business, pure and simple. This is just a desperate pathetic attempt to try to make money. I suppose it's OK when they hired any ex-WWE executive they can that does the same thing.
Quit being a hypocrite...

 

[californiachef84]

To all the WWE fanboys out there:

The issue at hand is NOT really about knowing whose contract will expire and when. This is just a very small part of the issue. I can't believe that only ONE FREAKING PERSON was able to read between the lines here! The WWE fans are so quick to try to make the WWE look good that they can't even pull their heads out of their asses for a second to see what is really going on!

The big issue at hand here children, is that the WWE now has all of the DETAILS behind everyone's contract within TNA. WWE now knows how much all of the talents in TNA are being paid. WWE also knows what kind of clauses may be in those contracts. WWE also knows how many dates the talent is required to work within that contract, and a whole host of other information.

So not only does the WWE know how much TNA talents are being paid, and when talent's contracts are expiring but they also know what kind of offers they can shoot at that talent. WWE can pay a lot less then they might have initially to get someone like Matt Morgan or Alex Shelley. THESE ARE THE REAL ISSUES HERE!!!

Think before you speak!

 

[Davi323]

To all the WWE fanboys out there:

The issue at hand is NOT really about knowing whose contract will expire and when. This is just a very small part of the issue. I can't believe that only ONE FREAKING PERSON was able to read between the lines here! The WWE fans are so quick to try to make the WWE look good that they can't even pull their heads out of their asses for a second to see what is really going on!

The big issue at hand here children, is that the WWE now has all of the DETAILS behind everyone's contract within TNA. WWE now knows how much all of the talents in TNA are being paid. WWE also knows what kind of clauses may be in those contracts. WWE also knows how many dates the talent is required to work within that contract, and a whole host of other information.

So not only does the WWE know how much TNA talents are being paid, and when talent's contracts are expiring but they also know what kind of offers they can shoot at that talent. WWE can pay a lot less then they might have initially to get someone like Matt Morgan or Alex Shelley. THESE ARE THE REAL ISSUES HERE!!!

Think before you speak!

This is just an assumption you are making based on nothing. What evidence is there that the WWE kept any of the information? The fact that they fired the guy for trying to give it to them indicates that they didn't want the information. They waited to tell TNA? What law says they were obligated to tell TNA at all? An attempt was made to provide them with that info, they rejected it and then fired the guy who tried it. That sounds like a rejection of the insider information to me. TNA has no case. All they have is a feeling that the WWE might have kept the info with absolutely no proof of it. Good luck trying to win a court case with no proof. The WWE seems interested in TNA wrestlers? Well no shit, Sherlock. But they knew when Matt Morgan's contract was up! So did Wrestlezone, it wasn't exactly the worlds greatest secret. We already know when Brock Lesnar's deal is done too, should the WWE sue each of us?

There is nothing to see here unless TNA can provide actual proof, something more than just suspicion.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

This is what you have been told is the issue. This is not the issue. This is a smokescreen.

For the longest time (somewhere around 'ever'), when someone is under contract to one party but wishes to explore his options with another, he'll do something called "putting out feelers". It means having people who aren't you inquire casually about the possibility of a deal. You can discover if the other party has a desire for your services, without the risk of talking to them yourself and alienating your current employer.

Seeing as this practice has been going on since we started growing crops in rows, when TNA/IW says they're trying to protect the information on contract status, they're bluffing. To a small extent, this is true, but the usefulness of this information is limited. Considering you'll know if a guy is coming out of contract soon because he'll be sending cohorts your way if he is, the only useful information you get is who's under contract for a very long time; and most of that information is publicly available anyways with a quick google search.

Here's what the issues REALLY are:

1) The WWE knows how much TNA/IW is paying their performers. This is the biggie, because the WWE can offer people they'd like a contract- at the appropriate time- which improves on their TNA/IW offer, while lowballing what they might have received otherwise. This is the Big One, and what makes this case legally worth pursuing. The WWE has an insane amount of leverage because of this; leverage that they shouldn't.

2) TNA/IW wants to stop this sort of issue in the future. The most powerful way to change someone's behavior is to bring them to court.

I'm nowhere near familiar enough with the case to comment on the likelihood of a winner. Strange shit happens in deliberation rooms, anyways, and the decisions frequently sound insane to anyone who wasn't in the jury. But the issue that is being sold here is not the issue that's occurring.

You're right about the real issues, but that's where it can get tricky too.

Like you said, a lot of this information is publically available through a quick google search. That fact alone eliminates much of the need for any real insider information.

TNA would need to prove too that the WWE would be using this information to lowball contract offers to TNA employees. How do you prove that? Using Ric Flair as an example since he is specifically named in the court papers, do you say that WWE is offering him $40,000 per appearance, which is them obviously taking advantage of insider information because we value him at $35,000 per appearance?

They need to prove that WWE deliberately withheld revealing this information for 3 weeks, or whatever it was. They need to prove that WWE has been contacting TNA guys with expiring contracts without permission, and not the other way around. That'll be tricky as well. Ask Flair who contacted who first. Flair the WWE or the WWE Flair. Guys going to work with the WWE aren't likely to say anything on the stand that will incriminate their new employer.

Not that this ever goes to court anyways. I've got a feeling that Panda is hoping that McMahon will just settle. WWE is a publically traded company, and they might feel WWE doesn't need an unfair business practices lawsuit hanging over their heads, and potentially affecting their stock price. That might be a risky assumption though, because the WWE does get sued a lot, and they're not really ones to back down.

If I am TNA though, taking this course of action, I am treading very carefully. If WWE desires to, they could start actively competing against TNA, cutting into their share of the market and leaving TNA on the outs pretty easily. Piss them off enough with this lawsuit, and that might be exactly what happens.

 

[yoshi_doce2006]

It doesnt matter if they still had it the point is they did have it, their former employee who is a former TNA employee gave it to them, and that is illegal in Tennessee for a company to have that type of information. TNA is based in Nashville so in those circumstances the lawsuit is perfectly legit.

It doesn't matter if you like it, doesn't matter that WWE handled it internally in hopes TNA never found out, all that matters is that TNA found out and filed suit in accordance with Tennessee State Law. Right now that is all we know so I say we sit and wait to see the next move.

Also remember, when WWF was losing to WCW in the Monday Night Wars, Vince tried to sue WCW over Hall and Nash. It was found baseless. So this is not the first time two big pro wrestling organizations have gone at it over something. We just need to wait and watch.

 

[Davi323]

It doesnt matter if they still had it the point is they did have it, their former employee who is a former TNA employee gave it to them, and that is illegal in Tennessee for a company to have that type of information. TNA is based in Nashville so in those circumstances the lawsuit is perfectly legit.

It doesn't matter if you like it, doesn't matter that WWE handled it internally in hopes TNA never found out, all that matters is that TNA found out and filed suit in accordance with Tennessee State Law. Right now that is all we know so I say we sit and wait to see the next move.

Also remember, when WWF was losing to WCW in the Monday Night Wars, Vince tried to sue WCW over Hall and Nash. It was found baseless. So this is not the first time two big pro wrestling organizations have gone at it over something. We just need to wait and watch.

Quick question...

Since TNA has a lot of former WWE employees on their roster, couldn't the WWE countersue TNA with the same claim? Couldn't they claim that when Jeff Hardy left, when Ken Anderson left, when Gail Kim left, Kurt Angle, Hulk Hogan, Taz, etc all had information about the WWE that they could have given to TNA? How about Bruce Prichard, who spent 22 years with the WWE, as Brother Love, a creative writer, producer and backstage agent? He would have had an indepth knowledge on WWE processes, contracts, creative decision making, etc, and he is now the John Laurinaitis of TNA, the Vice President of Talent Relations. It seems to me that he would have been in a perfect position to give TNA all kinds of sensitive WWE information. Should the WWE countersue TNA, claiming that Bruce Prichard gave them all kinds of info?

What actual proof does TNA have that the WWE used any of the information that they FIRED Brian Wittenstein for attempting to give them?

 

[ShawnBronald]

TNA isn't on the same level as WWE. I'm sure most within TNA know the details of WWE employee contracts. Why? Lots of past WWE wrestlers have moved to TNA and I'm sure they've shared their contract details. Also.... lots of WWE executives have joined TNA. Again, they know what kind of contracts are given out and such. Oh, and it's no secret that many WWE and TNA stars are.... wait for it.... good friends. You think they don't discuss business related stuff?

Don't get me wrong, what WWE did (allegedly) isn't kosher by any means, but I think it's being blown way out of proportion. Then again, I'm not seeing too much about it. Most likely, it'll be settled out of court. Hell, if it does go to trial, WWE can pay their lawyers more than TNA made in the last year. Vince is no stranger to this kind of stuff.

 

[Rayne]

Oh, and it's no secret that many WWE and TNA stars are.... wait for it.... good friends. You think they don't discuss business related stuff?

About how much they make? That's probably a discussion they avoid religiously. There's nothing good that comes with discussing money between co-workers, or people in the same industry. That lends itself to comparisons. That lends itself to grudges.

I've always found it's been the best policy that if I work with someone (or, these days, work in the same industry) and want to be friends with them, I don't discuss how much we make. I don't want to introduce the possibility of envy, on either side of the equation. People get wiggy over money; when I don't have to discuss business with friends, I prefer not to.

 

[shattered dreams]

People keep saying "what proof." How about the proof that WWE told them this information exists? They would be stupid not to sue to get it back from whomever might have it for the reasons Rayne and others have mentioned. The other aspects of the case are more tricky but people keep saying they don't have the evidence to prove something like they know anything about the case. What if they do have something? What if Flair got drunk and made some mistakes that WWE might regret?

 

[Davi323]

People keep saying "what proof." How about the proof that WWE told them this information exists? They would be stupid not to sue to get it back from whomever might have it for the reasons Rayne and others have mentioned. The other aspects of the case are more tricky but people keep saying they don't have the evidence to prove something like they know anything about the case. What if they do have something? What if Flair got drunk and made some mistakes that WWE might regret?

There is a difference between saying the infomation exists and that they USED the information. Obviously the information exists, it's why the WWE fired Brian Wittenstein in the first place. TNA isn't suing the WWE because the information exists though. They are suing the WWE because they claim they actually USED the information. That is what they have to provide proof of.

 

[xavyer]

Well.. Sting has declined offers before. So your point about TNA wrestlers saying no has lost its validity. And second.. Bogus? Lawsuits aren't free. I don't think TNA would go this route if there wasn't anything to their claims.

Well, about the WWE wanting Sting, if they really did, he would be in the WWE by now, just like Bret Hart after he said that he would never work for the WWE again, but that is not the point right now, the point is that i don't think this lawsuit is going anywere, everyone always try to sue the WWE for something, and everyone knows that lawsuit aren't free, don't get me wrong, i do not wish TNA any harm, but the reasons of the lawsuit is what i don't get, my original point is that the WWE doesn't need anything that TNA has, but is more likely that TNA does want or need something to compete with the WWE, but this lawsuit is not the way to go.........

 

[shattered dreams]

There is a difference between saying the infomation exists and that they USED the information. Obviously the information exists, it's why the WWE fired Brian Wittenstein in the first place. TNA isn't suing the WWE because the information exists though. They are suing the WWE because they claim they actually USED the information. That is what they have to provide proof of.

Yes, you go to trial to attempt to prove something. What is your point? Of course they will need to prove something and generally the idea is innocent until proven guilty. The issue is you claiming they are completely innocent because the initial news piece on the trial didn't lay out the details of the case TNA was bringing. An absurd idea if I have ever heard one. Something happened and the courts are going to sort out the wrong doing. Why should TNA have not done this? It should be very interesting if WWE comes up with any information to return based on this court order. If they do then they have a hell of a lot of explaining to do. If they destroy some of it and get caught that is even worse. If WWE truly acted in good faith when this guy brought the info then they have nothing to worry about. The time delay, amongst other things, suggests that might not be the case. As such I think the only stupid thing to do would be to assume WWE was acting in good faith.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Definitely an interesting development. Has WWE gone over this information with a fine toothed comb and made use of it? Probably so, in my opinion. As one poster said however, in order for TNA to collect any major damages, they're going to have to be able to prove that WWE has used this information to undercut TNA.

In order for that to happen, they'd most likely have to have testimony from someone involved in this. After all, the fact that Ric Flair, Alex Shelley & Matt Morgan are either gone, soon to be gone or in the process of being gone from TNA and, most likely, heading to WWE isn't proof in and of itself.

There's been heat between Flair & TNA for a long time now, they've had something of a rocky relationship almost from the start of Flair's time there. When TNA decided to let Flair be part of the Four Horsemen's WWE HOF induction, it was written in the stars that Flair was going back to WWE pretty much then and there.

As for Alex Shelley, it's perfectly believable that Shelley is just frustrated with TNA and simply wanted to go. Shelley has barely been used by TNA for a long while, which means the guy's probably not making that much money if he's on a paid by appearance basis like much of the TNA roster is said to be. Allegedly, TNA is also hard nosed when it comes to letting their talent work on the indy circuit, sometimes not even bothering to return calls made from other promotions or charging a large fee for allowing their wrestlers to work on some other company's card. Again, allegedly. I think Shelley will wind up in WWE, but that in and of itself is no proof of any wrong doing on WWE's part. Not saying that they didn't do somethin' naughty, but it's hard to prove.

As for Morgan, there's been talks of him possibly heading to WWE for months now. If Morgan wants to make his mark with the time he's got left, he's smart enough to know that the only way it MIGHT happen, at least at anytime in the forseeable future, is to go to WWE. Morgan's 35 years old and, quite frankly, he hasn't really accomplished anything in his career and, just guessing here, probably hasn't made the kind of money he'd like. So if Morgan is going to jump ship, this might be his last shot in doing so because, while a young guy in the grand scheme of things, he's not getting any younger when it comes to the business.

 

[whoopin' ass]

i say good for TNA. this will probably get them more publicity than anything they have done before. even if wwe didn't use the info, just knowing it shows a lack of ethics on their part. fine they fired the guy who shared it - the moment he mentioned he knew something they should have told him to keep his mouth shut. it is a big difference between listening to him and hearing what he has to say and telling him to keep the info to himself. and who is to say that they didn't use it. vince? he doesn't exactly have the greatest history with the truth.

 

[Rayne]

i say good for TNA. this will probably get them more publicity than anything they have done before. even if wwe didn't use the info, just knowing it shows a lack of ethics on their part. fine they fired the guy who shared it - the moment he mentioned he knew something they should have told him to keep his mouth shut. it is a big difference between listening to him and hearing what he has to say and telling him to keep the info to himself. and who is to say that they didn't use it. vince? he doesn't exactly have the greatest history with the truth.

I can promise you that absolutely no one cares about ethical constraints in the world of professional wrestling; at least, no one of any consequence. The papers will not be lit up tomorrow morning with headlines proclaiming moral ambiguity within WWE corporate.

 

[californiachef84]

This is just an assumption you are making based on nothing. What evidence is there that the WWE kept any of the information? The fact that they fired the guy for trying to give it to them indicates that they didn't want the information. They waited to tell TNA? What law says they were obligated to tell TNA at all? An attempt was made to provide them with that info, they rejected it and then fired the guy who tried it. That sounds like a rejection of the insider information to me. TNA has no case. All they have is a feeling that the WWE might have kept the info with absolutely no proof of it. Good luck trying to win a court case with no proof. The WWE seems interested in TNA wrestlers? Well no shit, Sherlock. But they knew when Matt Morgan's contract was up! So did Wrestlezone, it wasn't exactly the worlds greatest secret. We already know when Brock Lesnar's deal is done too, should the WWE sue each of us?

There is nothing to see here unless TNA can provide actual proof, something more than just suspicion.

An assumption? You really have to be a blind sheep to honestly believe that the WWE has not used or looked at this information. You have to be the most jaded of WWE fans to believe that.

TNA has no case. All they have is a feeling that the WWE might have kept the info with absolutely no proof of it.

How in the blue hell do you know that TNA "has no case"? Once again you are a severely jaded Vince McMahon ass kisser.

The WWE seems interested in TNA wrestlers? Well no shit, Sherlock. But they knew when Matt Morgan's contract was up! So did Wrestlezone, it wasn't exactly the worlds greatest secret.

Ummm, that is because Matt Morgan himself made everyone aware of his contract expiring. How do you not know this already? Oh, wait... that's right, you are a jaded WWE fan.

We already know when Brock Lesnar's deal is done too, should the WWE sue each of us?

Jesus Christ your dumb! I will walk you through this so even the most jaded WWE fan can understand it. The WWE is a PUBLICLY TRADED COMPANY! A publicly traded company has to release information like this. This is what it means to be a publicly traded company. TNA is a PRIVATE COMPANY! A private company does not have to release any information like this. A private company can do as it pleases with what information if decides to make available to the public (if any). WWE has to release it's information so investors might be willing to buy stock.

C'mon, try to keep up!

 

[JJYanks121]

Ah, I go away for a few days and I come home to this........

Let's make it short and sweet, shall we? TNA's got absolutely nothing and would likely be laughed at in court. However, WWE is a much larger company with a ton of money to throw at potential problems. Rather than go to court and waste time and money on lawyers, even with the overwhelming liklihood of victory, WWE will pay TNA some lump sum of money as compensation for the issue. Then this will go away and no one will care.

About the only thing this did was bring up more WWE vs. TNA sentiment, which is cute because rather than analyzing the case, people just took the sides they normally take and tried to defend something they knew nothing about. The problem there is that TNA fans saw this and went "sweet, WWE is still EVIL!" and hoped something would come of it. Nothing will.

This type of thing happens all the time in business, either planned or unplanned. Let's look at a seemingly "meaningless" example like baseball. Players change teams all the time. After having spent a lot of time on their previous team, they might know a thing or two. They might know about how pitchers tip their pitches, the approach of different batters, signals, etc. Does anyone think they swear those to secrecy and not tell their new team? I'm not saying it's 100 percent moral or whatever, but it happens all the time. The same would go for wrestling. Guys come and go all the time and there's absolutely nothing stopping them from talking. Heck, guys talk as soon as they get released to media outlets and give out useful information. The stuff Wittenstein "obtained" could just as easily be obtained this way: lets use Matt Morgan since he's a name in question......Morgan says to a WWE guy he's still friends with "yo bro, how's the E? Man, I'm coming up on contract here and I'm not sure that I want to stay, see what's going on over there". If you read wrestling books, guys did that and still do that all the time. Jericho talks about contacting WWE in his book while still under contract with WCW. It can't be the other way around but you can certainly reach out if you'd like. It's just moral code not to tell your current boss that you are looking around.

So like I said, this hope that TNA fans had that WWE was evil and TNA was some company under a halo of protection is pretty funny. This will get swept under the rug and not mean a thing. TNA will get some money and it won't go very far. Sorry, but this just isn't a big deal at all.

 

[itssoeasy123]

I guess somebody is looking for some cash.

WWE officials told TNA already, and TNA is still going to sue them, how does that makes sense? WWE admitted that the guy was giving them contractual information and fired him because of it. So why is TNA suing the WWE for? Short answer: money. Long answer: they need money and are desperate for it, getting a settlement deal out of the WWE is the only way TNA can get a huge sum of money because their PPV, live tapings, and house shows don't give them anything.

This won't end well for TNA.