Time for a new Faction.

[AegonTargaryen]

The idea of faction(as a word) revolves around the Latin root facere(fac-) to "make, do" and involves such elements as dissent, internal discord and disharmony within a larger group which can be a political party, an organization and in our discussion- The WWE Roster.

It has never been inconspicuous that the WWE and WWE fans are truly Americentric and really resist/resent non-American performers which is obvious from the fact that even in a globalized age such as this one, despite no portrayal of Anti-Americanism, a guy like Alexander Rusev decimating Zack Ryder in his debut saw the dumb arena fans chanting USA! USA! USA! (So what!? We all know USA is a nation, a pretty cool nation with democracy and multiculturalism and all but can't you fucking accept that there are more nations and cultures with their own qualities than fucking USA!? ).

For now, USA in wrestling is about the Daniel Bryans, John Cenas(as the babyface representations of boredom), The Shield and a US champion like Dean Ambrose (who is a disgrace to great US champions like Booker T and Chris Benoit), the Batistas, Ortons, and even Hulk Hogan. Thankfully, the fans don't contemptuously chant "USA!" during Cesaro matches and recognize how amazing an athlete Cesaro is. The factions that do exist right now have gotten bland- Shield has no purpose besides decimating Evolution(to be honest they are boring in the babyface role), Evolution is a temporary reunion, and Wyatt Family is more about an Individual named Bray Wyatt than about Factions and Agendas.

I realized that Sheamus and Wade Barrett haven't been doing a lot in the last 2 years(Sheamus in particular has been playing the role of a smiling Irish version of John Cena). Alexander Rusev just debuted. Drew McIntyre with his Scottish heritage still exists and even though he might not be the greatest pro-wrestling talent in the world, having him play the role of an idiot participant of a 3-man-band group with Jinder Mahal and that Red-headed guy is shameful. It's do or die for McIntyre- fire him or elevate him. Thus, we have Irish, Scottish, Russian(?), and English and I'd say 2 of those guys are at least worthy world title contenders(Sheamus and Barrett) for the foreseeable future.

I'm not suggesting we unite them just for the sake of having a new faction. The purpose behind factions is always an organized dissent, a "doing" something and a change "making". Thus should be born a European Union(or whatever you want to call it) comprising those 4 individuals or minus Drew, with a common goal. Unlike The Shield, they really must be portrayed as a group of angry wrestlers of European heritage/descent, sickened and tired of the American Unidimensionalism that goes about in the WWE(Same old John Cena, and now same old overrated and puny Daniel Bryan). The leader should be Sheamus as a full-blown Irish God. A year of decimation of Bryan and Cena, The Shield and any other babyface team/competitor that's willing to step up. Thus, the following things can be done:-

1)Wade Barrett can still chase the IC title but belong somewhere and have a Four-Horsemanesque membership and still do his Bad News Barrett thing.

2)Alexander Rusev can be more than just another version of Vladimir Kozlov, winning today, booed today, and a partner to Santino tomorrow.

3)Sheamus will be the leader. As a proud Irishman, he could bring entertainment and diversity effectively as a heel without having to smile and say "fella", and win world titles, rekindle and revive his old feuds with Cena and Orton and pretty much have 2 years of spotlight before this "faction" meets its eventual dissension.

4)Drew Mcintyre isn't needed because he has lost all credibility but if he could be revived and even made remotely credible as a "star", this could be his chance.

Now, we've already seen plenty of factions come and go, some very good, others very bad. Even Anti-American factions are a thing of the past as exemplified by the very pro-canadian Hart Foundation from the late 1990s. But If I'm not mistaken, in the post-1990s, there hasn't really been an impressive European faction with 4 big men. We have seen the Shield. We have seen Evolution and DX. But this faction could be truly different and engaging. I only see one disquality- Mic Work. I'm not so sure Barrett or Sheamus can come week after week and still engage audiences by their verbal artistry as members of a heel faction(especially when Sheamus is involved in WWE WHC picture) in contrast to John Cena and others.

If you could picture a Europeanesque Four Horseman with Sheamus as the WWE WHC, Wade Barrett as the IC champion, and Rusev/Mcintyre as tag champs, would you find it tolerable, entertaining, different or better?

Your thoughts?
What would you call this faction?
Would you include Cesaro in it instead of Mcintyre?

 

[laodaron]

I don't have a lot of time to respond right now, but I wanted to sort of build off of this. I really pike the idea of a European Union group with sheamus, Barrett, Cesaro, and a fully repackaged Rusev, and Lana still as the eye candy.

 

[JT Strike's Alt]

Personally i think the whole im from "Fill in the blank" and i hate America is just one of the most stalest gimmicks ever, its been way over done to the point that this is even happen on a wwe video game, i believe there was a 4 man group that was british on wwe 12.

The guys where

Sheamus
Drew Mcintyre
Wade Barrett
And William Regal

It actually wasn't a terrible storyline it just is so overdone that im afraid that it would just feel like WWE's version of world elite.

However if this where to happen i would keep it the exact same even add in layla & paige to take out the diva's championship if your gonna have a team that takes all the championship don't forget a lady or ladies.

And have a All American Group to face them.

John Cena
Jack Swagger
Daniel Bryan
Seth Rollins
Summer Rae "The woman to feud with layla"

And have another team that is from canada

Tyson Kidd
David Hart Smith
Chris Jericho
Christian
Natayla

British team should be called Redcoats and let them actually wear redcoats.
American team should be called The Fighters of Freedom
Canada team should be called Canadain destoryers

Make it a battle of the Countries and it would actually feel fresh.

 

[shafe_41]

Really? A new faction? You have The Shield, Evolution (sort of), The Wyatts, 3MB (if anyone cares), The Authority... who cares about a new faction? How many do you want? Too many factions ruins wrestling. We don't need any more group names whatsoever.

 

[Ropow]

Really? A new faction? You have The Shield, Evolution (sort of), The Wyatts, 3MB (if anyone cares), The Authority... who cares about a new faction? How many do you want? Too many factions ruins wrestling. We don't need any more group names whatsoever.

While I don't support his idea, I'm just curious as to if you even read his post. He laid out clear reasons why there could be a new faction, and that included listing off the current factions we have. Honestly, why even be one of the first to respond if you're not going to add anything to the discussion whether it be positive or negative to the viewpoint of the OP.

The problem I have with a new non American faction is that while it may work joining a group of people together who are all foreign it most likely would lead to Team USA vs Team World and Team World would more than likely all consist of heels, because why in the earth would you want to have the wonderful country of USA represented by evil doers. Not realistic at all!

If you wanted to make a faction it'd have to be a group that is having trouble breaking out by themselves. Earlier this year they tossed around Miz, Ziggler and someone else whom could form a faction based off of not getting their chance to shine. However, I feel it'd be more creative to slowly build a few stars who have been around for awhile to kind of start looking out for one another as the herd of new talent comes in. Don't outright come out and make a faction but build up an on screen friendship where if one's getting his ass kicked by a larger group some people can run out and make the save, and it'd be logical as to why they're making the save.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

Theres something called "overkill". We already have 3 factions (not counting 3MB) after having none for a long time. Just let it be, more isn't always better. And you guys need to get off of this "European" faction. I've never seen so much talk go into something that has never even been on the drawing board. It's a useless IWC fantasy booking scenario thats been going on for 3 years. Let it go.

 

[Freedom Fighter434]

Now isn't a good time for a new faction. We had Evolution 10 years ago (great), Legacy about 6 years ago (good), then Nexus (it worked), the New Nexus and the Corre (Jesus fucking Christ they sucked) before we got the return to great stables in The Shield and They Wyatt Family. Given their past track record of going "Hey, these guys aren't really doing anything, lets throw them together and have them be all growly and angry and see if they get over", I really wouldn't trust WWE with making another faction right now.

Evolution worked because it saw all the guys involved want to be involved. It made Trips into a future HoF'er, it gave Flair a way to coach or have understudies to improve from him, it gave Batista and Orton the chance that they wanted. Legacy worked because Rhodes and DiBiase got their chance and Orton needed it to give himself a bit of importance at the time, ended up getting him a title or two along the way. Nexus worked because everybody involved got given their chance and they all worked to make it worked. New Nexus and Corre were horrendous because it was just that they had a few guys from the old stable and a few guys doing nothing, threw them in a mixing pot and watched.

Do we really want them to try that again, even if it is with legitimately talented and experienced guys like Sheamus and co? I personally wouldn't want them to. Stables tend to either be made from a chance glaring creative in the face or they grow organically. The Shield were made because there were 3 guys with legitimate talent staring everybody in the face and there was no way to debut each of them alone at the time, so they paired them together and gave them that chance to make it work. If they all had something to work for, they made it work. The Wyatt Family have been a stable for a few years if you include NXT, they grew together and you can see that in their promos and their in-ring work. They have natural chemistry, they know what the other guy is going to do and what they should do to make it better as a collective. You don't get that with a few guys flung together just to give them something to do.

 

[laodaron]

Here's the real problem, and this is the crux of all WWE problems right now:

The WWE creative process just doesn't involve anyone that isn't in the Main Event. Midcarders are suffering right now, but they shouldn't be. It shouldn't be a problem to BE a midcarder. But, unfortunately, it is.

Putting Sheamus and Barrett together somehow screams success. Putting them with other Europeans, even if it isn't a "European faction" necessarily would be successful. Cesaro has lost almost all of his steam being with Heyman, because it doesn't fit. Barrett is about to become the IC again, even though he failed several times before at it. Sheamus isn't even on the fucking ER card!

Factions done well in the WWE would work. I think that there's room for at least 2 more factions, ESPECIALLY in the next 6 months in a buildup to Survivor Series. Is it going to happen? Nope. Would it be fun if it did? Sure.

The Wyatts are the only stable right now that have any longevity. Evolution only exists to get the Shield over. The Shield only exists until they run through the face pop they are getting. Within the next 8-12 months, there will only be the Wyatts left as a faction.

 

[JT Strike's Alt]

Theres something called "overkill". We already have 3 factions (not counting 3MB) after having none for a long time. Just let it be, more isn't always better. And you guys need to get off of this "European" faction. I've never seen so much talk go into something that has never even been on the drawing board. It's a useless IWC fantasy booking scenario thats been going on for 3 years. Let it go.

Evoultion isn't really a team they will most likely be gone after tonight, and the authority isn't a team anymore the authority has just became hhh & stephanie.

3 Man Band is a jobbing team so they don't count at all.

The Shield most likely will split sometime in the near future, and wyatt family is less like the shield and more like legacy meaning that bray is a solo wrestler with 2 goons following him around cheating for him.

so another faction isn't a overkill, whos to say any of the groups we have now will even be around next year?

I'm thinking that either The Wyatt Family Or The Shield splits around summerslam.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

Kudos to laodaron and CM Punk is dead to me for realizing the point of this thread and the idea of the faction. Everybody else except Ropow, either didn't read the entire post, couldn't comprehend it, or aren't really interested in contributing to it but just shit on it for whatever reason.

I made it crystal clear that Evolution is a very temporary "faction" or a reunion, Wyatt family is more like Bray Wyatt with 2 followers rather than a "Faction" in the narrow sense of the word. The Shield have done everything they had to or could as heels and as a babyface "force", they really can't destroy or have meaningful feuds in the future because you can only have Evolution reunions so many times. What's left? 3MB? It's a faction? Hahahha. What's their goal- to job on Main Event?

As for joefromtomsriver, either you have poor comprehension skills or were too negligent to go through the entire post. What you call a "fantasy booking crap" is more like your crappy attitude because you're too accustomed to the product AS IT IS with Daniel Bryan running around, The Shield as babyface boredom, same old evolution REHASH. I highly doubt and I contradict your assertion that European Union idea has been floating around threads from 3 years. 3 years ago in 2011, Wade Barrett had a weak faction named The Corre and people hardly wanted him to form another faction. Sheamus was still a dominant heel in early 2011. Alexander Rusev did not even exist. There you go- your fallacious assertions decimated.

As for the others, if the idea of 3 guys who're 6'ft'4, good looking and talented, with or without Alexander Rusev and Lana, dominating the very Unidimensional and repetitive WWE product(Bring back Lesnar, bring back Batista, Bring back Evolution, have Sheamus beat Alberto Del Rio for the 119th time on SD), being champions, and making a sort of "change" from the very boring "I'm an underdog and I chant YES so support me" product, if you find that idea aesthetically or personally unlikeable, I'm FINE with that. Let us keep watching The supposed "saviours of John Cena problem" be awkward babyfaces . I, however, disagree that there are any more impressive factions left, for reasons cited in the OP and this post.

By the way, I get goosebumps conceiving Wade Barrett and Sheamus together in the ring, with championship titles, and Alexander Rusev with the Sexy Lana thrown in it only gets better. If modern America represents mass-marketed merchandise, Stone Cold drinking and spilling beer, John Cena as the most boring pro wrestler of all time, I am all for some diversity because even though not every one of us can understand/appreciate Scottish, British, or Irish heritage and culture in this globalized world , at least we could enjoy diversity by way of having a faction not consisting of Jobbers/Overrated performers like Miz , Ziggler, but a group of tall, well -built and diverse "men" of European descent/heritage.

 

[Reflection]

I actually like this idea of an European faction more than the idea of disgruntled midcarders like Miz and Kofi forming a faction- which I must add, was a bogus idea. We had seen Barrett, Sheamus and Drew team once in a traditional Survivor Series tag team match, and they blended quite well, much better than the main event failures like Miz, Kofi etc. ever would.

 

[shafe_41]

I didn't need to read any reasoning for a new faction because WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE FACTIONS. Especially whatever is said about a European faction. We don't need it. Moreover... the "anti-American" faction or foreign faction has been done to death. I can come up with it being done three times off the top of my head in the last 15 years or so. And I'm probably forgetting some. It't not because the idea sucks. Team Canada in TNA with Scott D'amore. The Un-Americans with Christian, Lance Storm, Test, and Regal. Bret Hart leading his whole heel Canadian team. So the whole idea of a European one would be just as ineffective. If it was only done once, I can maybe see the point. But it's been done three times... if not more.

Moreover, what is the point of a "temporary faction?" Factions are made to magnify certain superstars while elevating others. "Temporary factions" are also quickly forgotten and serve no purpose whatsoever.

 

[Jericho91]

If there's any new faction coming to the main roaster its going to be The Ascension. The Shield is possibly breaking up this year. Evolution is obviously temporary. It's too early for the Wyatt Family to split this year. It's more believable to see them split next year rather than this year. We've had The Shield debut in 2012 and dominate 2013. We've had the Wyatt Family debut in 2013 and is currently dominating 2014. I see The Ascension debuting this year 2014 then dominating in 2015. I don't see anymore factions happening after that. WWE should start working on newcomers individually dominating the WWE without factions. I'd love to see Titus O'Neal & Darren Young reunite and dominate the Tag Team Division. They'd be the perfect competitors for the USO's. 3MB is complete garbage. I don't remember whens the last time anyone took them seriously. Maybe Heath Slater on his own when he pissed off Flo-Rida in WM28. Nothing else comes to mind.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

I didn't need to read any reasoning for a new faction because WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE FACTIONS

Says WHO? Once again, you've failed to read the OP, or are too negligent to understand what it states. 1. Shield will soon be done. 2. Evolution is a temporary Reunion. 3. Wyatts are more about Bray Wyatt and 2 of his followers than a "faction". 4. Jobber teams like 3MB don't count.

Especially whatever is said about a European faction. We don't need it.

Who is this "WE"? YOU? You don't "need" a faction? I'm sorry, nobody is GIVING you ANYTHING. Nobody is getting anything. We're not creating factions HERE by typing we WANT them. The whole point of this thread was the idea of a European faction. STOP CHANTING "WE DON'T NEED A FACTION".

Moreover... the "anti-American" faction or foreign faction has been done to death. I can come up with it being done three times off the top of my head in the last 15 years or so. And I'm probably forgetting some. It't not because the idea sucks. Team Canada in TNA with Scott D'amore. The Un-Americans with Christian, Lance Storm, Test, and Regal. Bret Hart leading his whole heel Canadian team. So the whole idea of a European one would be just as ineffective. If it was only done once, I can maybe see the point. But it's been done three times... if not more.

Hahahah TEAM CANADA? I swear on Jesus I thought of mentioning Team Canada in this exposition but does a crappy TNA version of a faction from 2004 matter TODAY? I already mentioned that in the post-1990s, there has been the Hart FOundation who were not european but Pro-Canadian. Between 1997-2014, name ONE PRO-EUROPEAN faction which doesn't have jobbers like Santino Marella or Vladimir Kozlov in it? You cant. Because the only 2 Non-American or Un-American (literal and storyline wise) factions were Hart Foundation with a heel Bret Hart, and Un-Americans. But if you think of it, Un-Americans were a bunch of enhancement talents and lower mid carders AT BEST. Test, Lance Storm, Christian. Meh.

Moreover, what is the point of a "temporary faction?" Factions are made to magnify certain superstars while elevating others. "Temporary factions" are also quickly forgotten and serve no purpose whatsoever.

Where the fuck did this come from? The only point where I used "temporary" was while explaining that Evolution is a Temporary Reunion so that you guys wouldn't say SO MANY FACTIONS ALREADY. Gosh! I am flabbergasted and annoyed at how many of you couldn't even read and understand the post and you have the audacity to go on and say "WE DON'T NEED ANY FACTIONS". I weep for humanity when I encounter such poor comprehension and totally illogical premises. A says "Here's this idea of a European faction". B goes "Oh no no, too many CANADIAN factions(too many apparently is "two") and WE DON'T NEED FACTIONS".

 

[Con T.]

The dirt sheets were wrong; Vince Russo isn't working for TNA, he's spilling the all faction idea on these here forums.

We've got Shield and Wyatts; that's enough for me. And you have Evolution. It's pretty pointless to have a faction. If anything, it's overkill.

So, no, it's a shitty idea.

 

[#tamale]

Ahhh, the good ol' international faction idea. Been seeing this since 2005. Yeah, bring them up. That way The Shield, The Wyatt Family, and Daniel Bryan with John Cena can squash them every night and destroy your dream so you can come on here and bitch about how the WWE will now die. And keep Cesaro as far away from this trainwreck faction as possible.

 

[shafe_41]

Says WHO? Once again, you've failed to read the OP, or are too negligent to understand what it states. 1. Shield will soon be done. 2. Evolution is a temporary Reunion. 3. Wyatts are more about Bray Wyatt and 2 of his followers than a "faction". 4. Jobber teams like 3MB don't count.


Who is this "WE"? YOU? You don't "need" a faction? I'm sorry, nobody is GIVING you ANYTHING. Nobody is getting anything. We're not creating factions HERE by typing we WANT them. The whole point of this thread was the idea of a European faction. STOP CHANTING "WE DON'T NEED A FACTION".



Hahahah TEAM CANADA? I swear on Jesus I thought of mentioning Team Canada in this exposition but does a crappy TNA version of a faction from 2004 matter TODAY? I already mentioned that in the post-1990s, there has been the Hart FOundation who were not european but Pro-Canadian. Between 1997-2014, name ONE PRO-EUROPEAN faction which doesn't have jobbers like Santino Marella or Vladimir Kozlov in it? You cant. Because the only 2 Non-American or Un-American (literal and storyline wise) factions were Hart Foundation with a heel Bret Hart, and Un-Americans. But if you think of it, Un-Americans were a bunch of enhancement talents and lower mid carders AT BEST. Test, Lance Storm, Christian. Meh.



Where the fuck did this come from? The only point where I used "temporary" was while explaining that Evolution is a Temporary Reunion so that you guys wouldn't say SO MANY FACTIONS ALREADY. Gosh! I am flabbergasted and annoyed at how many of you couldn't even read and understand the post and you have the audacity to go on and say "WE DON'T NEED ANY FACTIONS". I weep for humanity when I encounter such poor comprehension and totally illogical premises. A says "Here's this idea of a European faction". B goes "Oh no no, too many CANADIAN factions(too many apparently is "two") and WE DON'T NEED FACTIONS".

Okay. Fine I'll say it. It's a terrible idea. Bottom line... the WWE doesn't need any more factions. The fact they're from Europe doesn't matter because your normal ignorant WWE fan from middle America probably can't even name 7 countries in Europe. So how would your average fan even relate to them? The members are terrible and I'll tell you why for each of them.

As for Team Canada being a crappy stable from 2004? They lasted two and a half years and the longest running TNA stable ever. Probably the best stable TNA ever had which still isn't saying much. But the heel heat they generated was great. They yielded Robert Roode and Eric Young. Both of which have been TNA "Champions." Petey Williams was pretty damn entertaining too.

Sheamus- He's stale. He's boring. He's a pasty white John Cena who hasn't done anything memorable in over two years and the personality of the hair on my nuts. He'll turn heel soon and if it's a good run, he'll elevate himself. He doesn't need anyone else to help get him over. He's garbage on the mic so he won't be the leader of said stable.

Barrett- Terrible idea. He's been repackaged three or four times. He's finally getting over on his own. We'll see how it goes. This is the most traction Barrett has had since being the leader of Nexus. And it's not even because the "Bad News" gimmick is great. It's actually kind of bad which is what makes it good and comedic. The reaction he got from the post-Mania crowd was phenomenal. The week after that when Raw was in bumf*ck Alabama, nobody gave two squirts of piss about Barrett. This could be great for Barrett or could crash and burn and just look hot because of the timing of it all. Case and point... post-Mania Fandango in 2013.

Drew McIntyre- He'll never be relevant. Period. If the whole "handpicked by the McMahons" thing didn't get him over however many years ago that was... nothing will.

Rusev- he's been around... a month? He'll get the Koslov treatment. Built as the foreign monster for 6 months, then in a year be a comedy jobber a la Santino, Khali, Tensai, etc... He's silent (so far). Remember the last time a silent superstar got over in the WWE? I don't either. Lana is the one that adds to the presentation. I don't care about a foreign Ryback that is even LESS INTERESTING than Ryback.

It's bad idea with bad members. That is all.

 

[Jimmy Carter]

What purpose would another faction serve in the current landscape, and how exactly do superstars stand to benefit from being in one, especially one so trite as a foreign heel group? There already seems to be a proliferation of groups up and down the card, so a faction for the sake of it would serve little to no purpose at best. If we are throwing together wrestlers with stagnant singles runs, why not just create a few more tag teams to strengthen that division? At least that plan directly leads to something in the ring.

We also need a reason to make this endeavor plausible. The Shield formed to bring justice to WWE. The Wyatts congregated to spread their leader's twisted ideology. Evolution was a union of the dominant superstars from past, present and future. Heck, even 3MB had a loose pretense for forming their band - and they even managed to provide a fresh turn for Hornswaggle in the process. Why in today's world would an anti-American stable form within a US-based corporation that pays its workers to tour around the world and do what they love? Some ideas do not necessitate reinventing.

 

[Con T.]

You know, I already thought this idea was horrible to begin with. But I've decided to come back and state even more reasons why this faction idea is horrendous.

1. You know how many international wrestlers there are in WWE? Why are we limiting it to four? Why not add Alberto Del Rio?

Oh? He's Mexican and not European? Then why not Cesaro? He's European, too. You want to add him to this group? How about William Regal? He was in the angle you presumably ganked this from some WWE game. Why aren't we adding them?

2. Jack Swagger is a heel with the anti-foreigner, xenophobia gimmick.

Presumably, your factio will be he heels. So, isn't that sending a mixed message to the audience? Racism is bad, unless it's convenient to you?

3. Who do they feud with? No one on the roster, save for Swagger and Cena, is all that patriotic. So you're essentially setting them up for a feud with Cena, and that's it. Short shelf life, mack.

4. Why? What has WWE done to these men that's so bad? They get to travel the world, and wrestle. Yay.

5. What happens when they go to Europe on tours, and they become the biggest babyfaces on Earth?

6. What nation do we really have a thing against right now that makes sense? Russia? The only Russian is Lana; there isn't a xenophobic movement propelling a certain nationality against us.

7. None of these guys are over on own; what happens when they don't get over as a team, and they're just a big collection of jobbers?

See; it's just not a good plan.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

I understand you're one of those logically challenged people that so abound this universe. This is my final attempt at debunking your fallacious reasoning and not because I am the only one who thinks my idea of the faction is brilliant or because I want to impose that idea upon you. Only because I pity your illogical reasoning and feel astonished how you can live with it .

Okay. Fine I'll say it. It's a terrible idea. Bottom line... the WWE doesn't need any more factions. The fact they're from Europe doesn't matter because your normal ignorant WWE fan from middle America probably can't even name 7 countries in Europe. So how would your average fan even relate to them? The members are terrible and I'll tell you why for each of them.

According to your logic, the faction shouldn't be formed because "Average americans can't relate to European culture, nations, or a gimmick faction". According to your logic, there should've never been Eddie Guerrero either because they can't possibly relate to a short but built Latino wrestler who says "Viva La Raza" and utters out Spanish. It's also doubtful that many Smackdown fans between 2002-2005 understood Spanish or ever attempted to decipher the phrase "Viva La Raza". Fact is, Eddie got over. It's true that his "lying, cheating" gimmick got him over, his passion and talent, but half of everything Eddie was in life and represented was his proud Latino/Hispanic heritage and 90% Americans did not relate to it. It's the passion, intensity, storylines that drove and fuelled their hearts.

Similarly, how many of us ever slept into graveyards or even dug a few graves? Yet in the 1990s , there were "Creatures of the Night", only pretentious and vicarious creatures, but Undertaker fans still. Imagine Vince Mcmahon saying , "Oh no, who the hell is ever going to buy into a wrestler who's a deadman" instead. We wouldn't have the streak. We damn sure wouldn't have a legend. Mark Callaway would be another tall Texan, like JBL.

Conclusion is that you're one of those rigid, average WWE fans who are too content to take things as they are, too limited and narrow-minded so when somebody posts a new idea, you immediately go "oh no, it's a shitty idea" and I pity your existence for that.

As for Team Canada being a crappy stable from 2004? They lasted two and a half years and the longest running TNA stable ever. Probably the best stable TNA ever had which still isn't saying much. But the heel heat they generated was great. They yielded Robert Roode and Eric Young. Both of which have been TNA "Champions." Petey Williams was pretty damn entertaining too.

This is where you're committing the logical fallacy Ignoratio elenchi. "Ignoratio elenchi (irrelevant conclusion, missing the point) – an argument that may in itself be valid, but does not address the issue in question." This was a WWE thread talking about WWE factions, in particular "European", and you bring up a failure of a TNA faction in it? And Canadian?

Sheamus- He's stale. He's boring. He's a pasty white John Cena who hasn't done anything memorable in over two years and the personality of the hair on my nuts. He'll turn heel soon and if it's a good run, he'll elevate himself. He doesn't need anyone else to help get him over. He's garbage on the mic so he won't be the leader of said stable.

Again, fallacious reasoning from somebody who is biased and narrow-minded. "I hate Sheamus. I dislike Sheamus. I don't care about Sheamus. I am not going to find anything containing Sheamus likeable" . The core of this fallacy is :- "Argument from (personal) incredulity (divine fallacy, appeal to common sense) – I cannot imagine how this could be true, therefore it must be false"
Leave your personal biases and incredulity aside if you want to contribute to a thread.

Barrett- Terrible idea. He's been repackaged three or four times. He's finally getting over on his own. We'll see how it goes. This is the most traction Barrett has had since being the leader of Nexus. And it's not even because the "Bad News" gimmick is great. It's actually kind of bad which is what makes it good and comedic. The reaction he got from the post-Mania crowd was phenomenal. The week after that when Raw was in bumf*ck Alabama, nobody gave two squirts of piss about Barrett. This could be great for Barrett or could crash and burn and just look hot because of the timing of it all. Case and point... post-Mania Fandango in 2013.

Wrong proposition. Wade Barrett has only been repackaged ONCE, when he stopped being "Wade" Barrett and became Bad News Barrett. His 2011 shift into Smackdown wasn't a "repackaging" but a formation of The Corre.
Here, you commit another fallacy. Argumentum ad ignorantiam. Out of sheer ignorance, you claim "Wade Barrett has been repackaged four times. I don't want him to be repackaged or form a faction because it could fail or lead to a disaster". Aeh Aeh! We don't know until they actually form a faction and it turns into a disaster.

Drew McIntyre- He'll never be relevant. Period. If the whole "handpicked by the McMahons" thing didn't get him over however many years ago that was... nothing will.

"Oh, I dislike Sheamus. Terrible Idea". "Oh, Barrett has been repackaged too many times. Bad idea". "Drew McIntyre? He's worthless".
You're so fallacious that you should drown yourself for the list of fallacies. And you come here and act like a big shot claiming "shitty idea" on no logical or even remotely reasonable evidence or assertion.

Rusev- he's been around... a month? He'll get the Koslov treatment. Built as the foreign monster for 6 months, then in a year be a comedy jobber a la Santino, Khali, Tensai, etc... He's silent (so far). Remember the last time a silent superstar got over in the WWE? I don't either. Lana is the one that adds to the presentation. I don't care about a foreign Ryback that is even LESS INTERESTING than Ryback.

MORE FALLACIES! "I'm a very limited, narrow-minded bum. I dislike everyone that is not Daniel Bryan or John Cena. Your idea is terrible. I don't want to see Alexander Rusev" . Aeh Aeh! According to your logic, just because Rusev is well-built and has been around for a month, he shouldn't be involved into my proposed faction. By this logic, Batista and Randy Orton shouldn't have been picked by Ric Flair and HHH because they had been around for what- 2-3 months , beating Hardcore Holly and being a Sexton to Reverend D-von?

It's bad idea with bad members. That is all.

Of course, coming from the most absurd, illogical, narrow-minded, idiotic person on this planet. The list of fallacies I could still cite is astonishing. I doubt you have the understanding to even go through them so I'm going to spare you. What crappy argument and reasoning. My goodness!

 

[AegonTargaryen]

You know, I already thought this idea was horrible to begin with. But I've decided to come back and state even more reasons why this faction idea is horrendous.

1. You know how many international wrestlers there are in WWE? Why are we limiting it to four? Why not add Alberto Del Rio?

Oh? He's Mexican and not European? Then why not Cesaro? He's European, too. You want to add him to this group? How about William Regal? He was in the angle you presumably ganked this from some WWE game. Why aren't we adding them?

2. Jack Swagger is a heel with the anti-foreigner, xenophobia gimmick.

Presumably, your factio will be he heels. So, isn't that sending a mixed message to the audience? Racism is bad, unless it's convenient to you?

3. Who do they feud with? No one on the roster, save for Swagger and Cena, is all that patriotic. So you're essentially setting them up for a feud with Cena, and that's it. Short shelf life, mack.

4. Why? What has WWE done to these men that's so bad? They get to travel the world, and wrestle. Yay.

5. What happens when they go to Europe on tours, and they become the biggest babyfaces on Earth?

6. What nation do we really have a thing against right now that makes sense? Russia? The only Russian is Lana; there isn't a xenophobic movement propelling a certain nationality against us.

7. None of these guys are over on own; what happens when they don't get over as a team, and they're just a big collection of jobbers?

See; it's just not a good plan.

Just like shafe, your entire argument and every assertion you've thrown at me can be summed up by the following fallacies:-

1)Circular reasoning (circulus in demonstrando) – when the reasoner begins with what he or she is trying to end up with; sometimes called assuming the conclusion.. Proved by "It's not a good plan. I conclude it because I'm a WWE storyline writer and have put up 7) points and already decided how everything will go". Aeh aeh! You ain't no WWE creative or storyline writer nor a member of the Brainstorming committee . Either you like the idea or don't because of personal reasons. Stop pretending to be Vince Mcmahon questioning the WWE creative member challenging and factoring in or out a proposed idea or get the hell outta here.

2)Fallacy of many questions (complex question, fallacy of presupposition, loaded question, plurium interrogationum) – someone asks a question that presupposes something that has not been proven or accepted by all the people involved. This fallacy is often used rhetorically, so that the question limits direct replies to those that serve the questioner's agenda. Proven by "Why not add William Regal? " "Why not Alberto Del Rio?" Aeh aeh! Regal is not an active wrestler any more. The thread NEVER proposed a faction containing EVERY Non-American that is employed by the WWE.

3) The biggest fallacy in your assertions is "Appeal to consequences (argumentum ad consequentiam)" – the conclusion is supported by a premise that asserts positive or negative consequences from some course of action in an attempt to distract from the initial discussion. "Oh, European faction is a terrible idea. I'm not going to discuss it because who wants a heel faction facing John Cena and Jack Swagger? I don't want it. Terrible idea".

For your own good, stop bothering because you're another fallacious, inept and narrow-minded average WWE fans who is too rigid and inflexible to accept a new idea. The list of fallacies you commit is annoyingly baffling.

 

[Con T.]

I don't have an answer for all of your questions, so I'm going to throw around words I know fuck all about.

Just summed up your entire post, in one sentence. You're welcome.

How is my circular reasoning any different from yours? Your logic essentially boils down to the opposite of mine; you think this faction is a good idea (spoilers; it isn't), and thus it is a good idea.

It isn't a good idea. I presented seven legitimate ideas. None of which you tried to disprove.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

Just summed up your entire post, in one sentence. You're welcome.

How is my circular reasoning any different from yours? Your logic essentially boils down to the opposite of mine; you think this faction is a good idea (spoilers; it isn't), and thus it is a good idea.

It isn't a good idea. I presented seven legitimate ideas. None of which you tried to disprove.

Again, another weak and puny effort. At this point, I'm getting tired of dealing with you and I'm aware of your personal dislike of me because I antagonized John Cena in a thread which resulted in you sending maledictory remarks in my PM. Your reasoning is fallacious and I proved it by stating the fallacies. I'll deal with you once you discard those fallacies and then attempt to engage in a discourse about the topic. Until then, you're one of those hopeless people who shouldn't bother in a topic at least in my thread. I don't mind your personal dislike of some wrestler - whether its Sheamus or someone else- but to discard an entire thread/topic by fallacious reasoning and presupposed conclusions "Shitty idea , terrible idea", you've really got no class. After all, I'm not the one shitting on your thread because of a personal bias or presupposed conclusions. You can't even come up with a creative idea or thread to begin with. Lets say someone created a thread about John Cena with an innovative idea of a faction? Unlike you, I wouldn't fallaciously say "Terrible idea because John Cena sucks". I'd give it a try. I've got nothing left to prove to you or say.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

You know, I already thought this idea was horrible to begin with. But I've decided to come back and state even more reasons why this faction idea is horrendous.

Since later in the thread, you actually audaciously state that I couldn't "disprove" your 7 invalid and fallacious assertions, despite my stating the three biggest fallacies which essentially make your entire premise invalid, I'm going to make it crystal clear so even you could understand.

1. You know how many international wrestlers there are in WWE? Why are we limiting it to four? Why not add Alberto Del Rio?Oh? He's Mexican and not European? Then why not Cesaro? He's European, too. You want to add him to this group? How about William Regal? He was in the angle you presumably ganked this from some WWE game. Why aren't we adding them?

Aeh aeh! I proposed the idea of a faction and thought it fit for the mentioned four individuals. I made no such assertions as to limit, restrict, nor expand the said 4 with unwanted members like Alberto Del Rio, and William Regal who isn't even an active and prominent young wrestler . Fallacy #1. Circular Reasoning.

2. Jack Swagger is a heel with the anti-foreigner, xenophobia gimmick. Presumably, your factio will be he heels. So, isn't that sending a mixed message to the audience? Racism is bad, unless it's convenient to you?

Aeh aeh! The thread clearly mentioned how it would be four Europeans(or three excluding McIntyre). Involving Jack Swagger into the argument/premise makes up for another Fallacy.

3. Who do they feud with? No one on the roster, save for Swagger and Cena, is all that patriotic. So you're essentially setting them up for a feud with Cena, and that's it. Short shelf life, mack.

First of all, Jack, I'm no MACK. Secondly, you're committing the fallacy of appeal to consequences, or "argumentum ad consequentiam". By trying to predict or project the future/conclusion even before it's begun, you're not
actually helping or making valid arguments, but reducing the entire topic at hand because of your fallacy. Whom will they feud with is not the topic or the question. The first and logical question is, "What will their purpose be? " which I clearly stated in the OP.

4. Why? What has WWE done to these men that's so bad? They get to travel the world, and wrestle. Yay.

Here you commit multiple fallacies.
#1 "Appeal to ridicule – an argument is made by presenting the opponent's argument in a way that makes it appear ridiculous". I never made any premise about the financial or personal lives of the said wrestlers. They might be millionaires or superstars for all we care. The topic is not about how famous they are and where they travel. You're looking so foolish in this assertion that it's laughable.

#2 "Ignoratio elenchi (irrelevant conclusion, missing the point) – an argument that may in itself be valid, but does not address the issue in question." We're talking about a faction, not whether some wrestler gets to travel the world.

5. What happens when they go to Europe on tours, and they become the biggest babyfaces on Earth?

Just because Alberto Del Rio or Eddie Guerrero might be cheered in Mexico doesn't mean the WWE should've never turned them heel. Similarly, before even discussing the primary goals or idea about the faction, you're jumping to a fallacious conclusion which may or may not happen, "what if they get cheered in Europe"? Simply idiotic. Think for yourself.

6. What nation do we really have a thing against right now that makes sense? Russia? The only Russian is Lana; there isn't a xenophobic movement propelling a certain nationality against us.

Aeh aeh. "Incomplete comparison – in which insufficient information is provided to make a complete comparison." It's not about Russia. It's certainly not about Lana. The whole idea was about those 3 or 4 men with European heritage forming a faction to get rid of Unidimensional Americentric WWE programming, not necessarily anti-American or Racist, but a group of young, talented men of European descent. Trying to bring Russia or Xenophobia into it is another exemplification of your fallaciousness.

7. None of these guys are over on own; what happens when they don't get over as a team, and they're just a big collection of jobbers? See; it's just not a good plan.

Fallacy #1. "Mind projection fallacy – when one considers the way one sees the world as the way the world really is."

A lot of people disagree with your assertion that "NONE OF THESE GUYS ARE OVER ON THEIR OWN". What did you smoke today? Lots of people have been enjoying Bad News Barrett and they gave him the IC title. HE'S OVER. Sheamus has won multiple world titles, and even though he doesn't have a fancy chant, he's still one of the valuable performers. To say he's not "over" is to simply commit the fallacy stated above.

Fallacy #2 "Argument from ignorance (appeal to ignorance, argumentum ad ignorantiam) – assuming that a claim is true because it has not been or cannot be proven false, or vice versa."

Fallacy#3 "Argument from (personal) incredulity (divine fallacy, appeal to common sense) – I cannot imagine how this could be true, therefore it must be false."

Thus, your "Kettle logic – using multiple inconsistent arguments to defend a position." has failed to disprove me. You've made yourself look foolish by the number of fallacies in your argument, and the worst is your use of Kettle Logic-
1)No Russian. Lana is Russian.
2)Xenophobia and Jack Swagger.
3)They make money, they get to travel. Yay.
4)What if they get cheered in Europe?

 

[Con T.]

Lets say someone created a thread about John Cena with an innovative ideaof a faction? Unlike you, I wouldn't fallaciously say "Terrible idea because John Cena sucks". I'd give it a try. I've got nothing left to prove to you or say.

Therein lies your problem; it isn't innovative. It isn't novel. It isn't even that good of an idea (minimizing an already shallow mid card division, for the sake of a stable). I've pointed out your flaws, you returned with stuff I doubt you even know the meaning of.

Let's start with this; the xenophobia gimmick is old, and it isn't getting over (see; Rusev, Alexander). So why should I believe four people doing a gimmick that's stale (with a stable idea that is stale) will work?

Edit; regarding my "creativity". You do realize I'm a member of WZCW creative, right? Meaning, my job is to come up with feuds and angles, and tell people if their ideas suck or not. I'm fairly comfortable with my creativity.