Three Kinds Of Champions

[One to Remember]

You have champions, transitional champions, and interim champions. This is not about a specific wrestler but I believed I read another poster use the phrase "Mark Henry esque reign" and it made me realize that there is no such a thing. We diverge from those three classifications and I think the main motivation is to label and then box in and then critisize.

Champion: Some one who holds the title. He does the work, may not get it again, it could last anywhere from 4 days to four years..

Transitional Champion: Some one who bridges the gap between to wrestlers often to avoid having to have top names class resulting in one losing credibility or future viability.

Interim Champion: Some one like Khali. Some one who becomes champion because of a circumstance that sidelines either the champ or storyline continuity.

Thats it. Thats the break down. No Cena runs, no Mark Henry runs, etc etc.

 

[Rampage Bentley]

You have champions, transitional champions, and interim champions. This is not about a specific wrestler but I believed I read another poster use the phrase "Mark Henry esque reign" and it made me realize that there is no such a thing. We diverge from those three classifications and I think the main motivation is to label and then box in and then critisize.

Champion: Some one who holds the title. He does the work, may not get it again, it could last anywhere from 4 days to four years..

Transitional Champion: Some one who bridges the gap between to wrestlers often to avoid having to have top names class resulting in one losing credibility or future viability.

Interim Champion: Some one like Khali. Some one who becomes champion because of a circumstance that sidelines either the champ or storyline continuity.

Thats it. Thats the break down. No Cena runs, no Mark Henry runs, etc etc.

I see what you're trying to do... but I can't agree. You say there is no such thing as a Cena run, but there very much is. No one else (right now) gets the type reigns he does, except for maybe Randy Orton. They have a gravitational pull on the titles, they keep em for long periods of time, lose them, and then win them back. Every now and then they'll take a backseat for no more than a year.

I realize your trying to simply things and get people to stop over analyzing
every little thing, but in this case it's legitimate.

 

[HRNY4ZRNY]

There are only 2 kinds of Champions.

WWF-WWE Champions= these are the real champions that Vince is proud of. These are the guys that Vince considers #1 at the time or really deserving of the title. These are the guys that would be on WWE ice cream bars. Yokozuna-Bret Hart-Lesnar- Cenas

World Title-- these are the guys that Vince simply cannot make the true champion so he gives them the step child belt. The belt he truly doesnt care about. The belt that David Arquette held. So the Booker T's, Mysterios, Khalis and so on.

Now he did give the title to Triple H and Shawn Michaels but that was because he wanted the title to have credebility even though he personally doesnt care about it as much as his own companies title.

The other championships dont mean anything at all. The US title doesnt mean anything to Vince. The Intercontinental title did mean something but he forgot how to use it.

The reason they got rid of the hardcore title was it was a joke title to Vince from the start. Thats why 11 different people could hold it for 1 minute or so. Its a joke.

If you want to read between the lines look at who Vince gives the WWE title to. Its who he truly envisions his champion at the moment is.

 

[HRNY4ZRNY]

Vince has a body type that he likes.

The Stone Cold, Rock, Sheamus, Cena, Del Rio body type.

He gives the world title to others that are deserving in his eyes but he cant get over something about them.

 

[HRNY4ZRNY]

Perfect example is Mark Henry. I would be shocked if he won the real WWE title.

Not shocked about him winning the World Title. Because Vince likes Henry, hardworker, unique look BUT he does not see him as a true champion. Because hes 1. doesnt have the body type and 2. hes black.

Vince is not racist to me but for some reason he does not think a black guy can truly draw money like white or spanish guys can.

Spare me with the Rock is black speech. The Rock has the look of a Samoan guy. Vince is fine with that. Its the really black guys Vince doesn't let have his real title. Thats why Booker T won so many World Titles.

Because he doesnt care about the world title as much.

 

[TheGreatLegend]

There are only 2 kinds of Champions.

WWF-WWE Champions= these are the real champions that Vince is proud of. These are the guys that Vince considers #1 at the time or really deserving of the title. These are the guys that would be on WWE ice cream bars. Yokozuna-Bret Hart-Lesnar- Cenas

World Title-- these are the guys that Vince simply cannot make the true champion so he gives them the step child belt. The belt he truly doesnt care about. The belt that David Arquette held. So the Booker T's, Mysterios, Khalis and so on.

Now he did give the title to Triple H and Shawn Michaels but that was because he wanted the title to have credebility even though he personally doesnt care about it as much as his own companies title.

The other championships dont mean anything at all. The US title doesnt mean anything to Vince. The Intercontinental title did mean something but he forgot how to use it.

The reason they got rid of the hardcore title was it was a joke title to Vince from the start. Thats why 11 different people could hold it for 1 minute or so. Its a joke.

If you want to read between the lines look at who Vince gives the WWE title to. Its who he truly envisions his champion at the moment is.

Wasn't WWE Title being handed to Sheamus after 188 days of his debut ?

Wasn't Miz (a reality star) and used to say "HOORAH" as the host of SmackDown in 2005 the WWE Champion for 6 months ?

WWE Championship changed hands 9 times since Money in the Bank 2011 to Hell in a Cell which shows how "Prestigious" it is.

Vince just doesn't care about any title now either World Title or WWE Title.

 

[HRNY4ZRNY]

if it was my call Miz would still be the champion right now. He would have never lost it and I would have continued to evolve his character. For some reason I think the Miz has good chemistry with nostalgic wrestlers like Lawler and present wrestlers like punk. Give Miz a year long reign as WWE champ. You could book Miz against:

The Miz vs. Mankind- Street Fight

The Miz vs. The Undertaker- Title vs. Streak

The Miz vs. Triple H

The Miz vs. CM Punk

The Miz vs. Diesel

The Miz vs. Stone Cold- This would be amazing.

 

[Headman]

This may have already been said but a transitional and interim champion are the same thing. So there are actually only two kinds of champions according to your logic.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Wasn't WWE Title being handed to Sheamus after 188 days of his debut ?

Wasn't Miz (a reality star) and used to say "HOORAH" as the host of SmackDown in 2005 the WWE Champion for 6 months ?

WWE Championship changed hands 9 times since Money in the Bank 2011 to Hell in a Cell which shows how "Prestigious" it is.

Vince just doesn't care about any title now either World Title or WWE Title.

Wow a Miz hater, umm....wasn't miz the guy who is pretty fuckin over? Isn't Miz the guy who has worked his ass off to get really over? I mean sure, if you want to look at stuff 10 years ago (which seems to be a trend on here) then yea, that's the Miz. I know the Miz as a guy with several catchphrases that the crowd responds to and a guy who has grown more than anyone in the ring.

Who cares how many times the title changed. Speaking of 10 years ago, how many times was the title hot-shotted around in the tude era?

Fact is, the WWE title is the focus of Raw, Raw is their money maker. The WWE title typically headlines ppvs. You have to be ******ED, I say that as a description, not a put down, but you literally have to be all caps, IQ of 50 ******ED to not see that the WWE is the title promoted as more prestigious.

As for "types of champions".....the WWE doesn't work that way, it's a business, pro wrestlers are products. the title is just a way of giving a "product" more visibility. Do you guys think pro wrestlers call it "the business" for the hell of it?

 

[conici]

It Seems That The whole Thread/Discussion has turned into Miz Hating and WWE V World
Firstly there is only one typle of champion and that is champion stupid question
The World Title seems like a Tribute/Thank you title I.e Mark Henry,Kane,Mysterio
It is in no way a B Grade World title some ofthe greatest have held it I.e Shawn,Trips,Orton,Edge,Cena,Jericho,Batista,Undertaker yes it has had some shockers Khali,Swagger But the World titles are world titles They are on the same level and are have the same importance

 

[trashboy]

Quit trying to label everything? Uh, isn't that what you're doing with this "interim" crap? I mean, seriously, those words are just something the stupid IWC came up with, because i had never heard of that until recently.. there is only one type of champion, and that is when he's holding the damn belt.. there's no in between, you're either champion or you're not.. it's simple as that.. why does everyone have to try and figure things out and make it more complicated than it actually is?

 

[TheGreatLegend]

Wow a Miz hater, umm....wasn't miz the guy who is pretty fuckin over? Isn't Miz the guy who has worked his ass off to get really over?

Who cares how many times the title changed. Speaking of 10 years ago, how many times was the title hot-shotted around in the tude era?

The fuck are you talking about ? He hasn't done shit. He just got the Rocket ship push up his ass in 2010 because WWE was at its worse in starpower since 2007.

WWE Title was never hot-shotted 5 times in a month during "The Attitude Era".

Don't post like you have your head in your ass.

 

[Red Rum]

WWF-WWE Champions= these are the real champions that Vince is proud of. These are the guys that Vince considers #1 at the time or really deserving of the title. These are the guys that would be on WWE ice cream bars. Yokozuna-Bret Hart-Lesnar- Cenas

World Title-- these are the guys that Vince simply cannot make the true champion so he gives them the step child belt. The belt he truly doesnt care about. The belt that David Arquette held. So the Booker T's, Mysterios, Khalis and so on.

Hell, here's a concept. I don't think this has anything to do with the WWE or World Heavyweight Championships. It's more like what belt is on Raw and what belt is on SmackDown. Raw is the A-brand, so technically, whatever belt is on Raw (whether WWE or World Heavyweight) is the real champion of the company.

If what you said about the separate title belts is true, then guys like John Cena would have never won the World Heavyweight Championship. I don't think Vince would give Cena "the step child belt" if that is how he looked at it. That's just my two cents on this matter.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

The fuck are you talking about ? He hasn't done shit. He just got the Rocket ship push up his ass in 2010 because WWE was at its worse in starpower since 2007.

WWE Title was never hot-shotted 5 times in a month during "The Attitude Era".

Don't post like you have your head in your ass.

Do you go shows? Every show I've been to pre and post mania, Miz was very over. that's why he got pushed, because he's good at his job.

did the WWE change hands 5 times recently?
John Cena won it May 1
Punk won it July 17
Mysterio won it July 25
Cena won it July 25
Del Rio August 14
Cena Sept 18
Del Rio Oct 2

During no single month, nor no period of 31 days did the title change hands 5 times. 4 times from July 15-August 15, but the title was vacant and was some pretty solid television.

How about this one.
HBK jan 19, 1997
Bret Hart 2/16
Sid 2/17
Undertaker 3/23

or this
Mankind 12/29/98
Rock 1/24/99
Mankind 1/26/99
Rock 2/15/99

In under 2 full months, there were 4 changes, all hot-shotted around 2 guys. Rock would later lose the title to Austin a little over a month later. So Rock gets 2 title runs totalling 43 days.

ALSO in 1999

Mankind Aug 22
HHH Aug 23
McMahon (YES FUCKING MCMAHON AS THE CHAMPION) Sept 14
vacated sept 20
HHH Sept 26

So another title change in under a week, and 4-5 (depending if you count "vacated") title changes in 2 months.

In fact, in 1999 the title changed hands 11 times, 12 if you count "vacated'.

In 2011 it's changed hands 7 times, 8 if you count "vacated". So um...pull YOUR head out of YOUR ass. See, I looked at facts and you didn't.

The best part is, that's not even the point. The point is that the WWE title is CLEARLY the number 1 title. It's the number 1 title on the number 1 brand and it's been typically held by the number 1 guy. of course they put the WHC on some high profile guys and of course they have put the WWE title on less profile guys. They're called OUTLIERS.

 

[One to Remember]

it does not matter anyway because when ever the titles are unified the ex WHC title holders will be in the new Undisputed Championship's lineage..

This thread is not about a title or championship or the perceived inequalities between WWE's two top titles.

Now back to the topic at hand. A interim champion keeps the belt warm, he stabelizes the situation, his reign is ALWAYS short, and he either drops it back to the guy he won it from or to someone else who quickly drops it back to the original holder.

a transitional champion bridges gaps while not burning bridges. His job is to assure that a top tier champion does not drop his title to a competitor that will hurt his credibility or viability. His job is to assure the passing of the torch while not sacrificing one top name's star power to another top name.

Its not just about being champion but what your purpose as champion is..

 

[harrythem]

But I wouldn't call Jack Swagger any of the threads 3 "acceptable" labels...I'd refer to him as a Paper Champion - Someone who's got the belt but isn't accepted as a championship level guy and does nothing to change that perception.

And what the fuck would we class Vince McMahon/Russo/Arquette as?

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

But I wouldn't call Jack Swagger any of the threads 3 "acceptable" labels...I'd refer to him as a Paper Champion - Someone who's got the belt but isn't accepted as a championship level guy and does nothing to change that perception.

And what the fuck would we class Vince McMahon/Russo/Arquette as?

Swagger wasn't a "paper champion" he was a product that failed to sell when given more visability.

You would call McMahon/Russo/Arquette other products they were trying to increase the "value" of by putting the title on. By "value" I just mean how much they will draw, not "o this guy is good". Well actually you'd only call McMahon that. Russo is too much of a mark to see things from a business perspective.

Again, WWE doesn't use these silly titles, it's a business, wrestler's call it "the business" and it's sold on the fucking stock market. Stop acting like pro wrestlers aren't products. That's all they are. No "well we're going to make this guy a transitional champion" it's "how can we make this guy sell more? Well we'll give him a belt so his feud with so and so gains more relevance but if it doesn't work we'll put it back on our cash cow (Cena)".

Swagger was like when Apple wanted the AppleTV to sell. It didn't work. Is the AppleTV a "paper product"? No, it's a failed product. When McDonalds promotes the Big Mac with their "buy one get one free" deal that's awesome, why is that? It's because the Big Mac is their cash cow (Cena) and people go "what a deal" and go to McDonalds.

It's simple if you don't mark (as in, benig a mark) it up with shit that doesn't apply. It's money, pure and simple.

 

[kokoBawesome]

Your logic is asinine. Your literally saying there is no such thing as a Mark Henry run... but there is. It's going on right now. There's no such thing as a Cena run, but I've seen a few of them. It like saying there's no such thing as cats while there's one sitting on your lap.

You've divided the past into three categories and decided that if something doesn't fit your definition, its a fluke or a one time thing. I don't even understand the logic in starting this discussion.

 

[xoxo French Kiss xoxo]

A champions, a champion, a champion... but under what was posted in this thread

Christian was an transition champion when he held the title for 48 hours after winning it vs Del Rio only to lose it to Orton... But then he was given a second title run that lasted several months shortly afterwards but in the end lost it to Orton

Does that in turn make Orton a transitional champion as well?
he won the title from Christian, lost it to Christian, won it from Christian then lost it to Henry... two title runs in less than 3 months?

Wait is Henry a transition champion? or is he a Champion?
Who would have thought that Henry, MARK HENRY would be on the role as WHC that he's been on for the past few months. But I mean, its Mark Henry so he's clearly just a transitional champion....

 

[harrythem]

Swagger wasn't a "paper champion" he was a product that failed to sell when given more visability.

He went from being made to look a joke against Santino to World Champion in a few months with no build up. Wrestling might just be a business but, fact is fact, people couldn't accept Swagger as a Champion because he wasn't positioned to look like one in the build up to his MITB win and once he won the title...I'd say that is a paper champion.

You would call McMahon/Russo/Arquette other products they were trying to increase the "value" of by putting the title on. By "value" I just mean how much they will draw, not "o this guy is good". Well actually you'd only call McMahon that. Russo is too much of a mark to see things from a business perspective.

So, as I asked, in the "only 3 categories" what do McMahon/Russo/Arquette fall into then?

Again, WWE doesn't use these silly titles, it's a business, wrestler's call it "the business" and it's sold on the fucking stock market. Stop acting like pro wrestlers aren't products. That's all they are. No "well we're going to make this guy a transitional champion" it's "how can we make this guy sell more? Well we'll give him a belt so his feud with so and so gains more relevance but if it doesn't work we'll put it back on our cash cow (Cena)".

Swagger was like when Apple wanted the AppleTV to sell. It didn't work. Is the AppleTV a "paper product"? No, it's a failed product. When McDonalds promotes the Big Mac with their "buy one get one free" deal that's awesome, why is that? It's because the Big Mac is their cash cow (Cena) and people go "what a deal" and go to McDonalds.

It's simple if you don't mark (as in, benig a mark) it up with shit that doesn't apply. It's money, pure and simple.

Why the hell are you comparing wrestling to Apple or McDonalds? They're all completely different busniesses...Fuck it, I'm going to see if I can work it that way...McDonalds have a cheeseburger...Suddenly, out of no-where, they start charging more for a cheeseburger than a Big Mac, no advertising spent to sell to the public that it's a bigger deal than the Big Mac, just out of the blue...It would fail like fuck...I wouldn't call it a "paper product", I wouldn't call it a "transitional" product or any of the other titles used in this thread because, simply, it's McDonalds, not wrestling and to try comparing the two, even though they're both businesses, is just mental.

Now, are we going to call Ziggler's 2 minute reign a "transitional" reign because, it was "paper" to me (as he was no-where near ready for it) or, even more likely a "storyline" reign..(I think I just decided on my title for the McMahon/Russo reigns).

It's simple if you don't mark (as in, benig a mark) it up with shit that doesn't apply. It's money, pure and simple.

Apple/McDonalds comparisons are acceptable though?