Thoughts on Sin Cara's Return

[gwarren]

Last night on SD, we saw the return of the "international sensation" Sin Cara, here's what I though:

GOOD
1. Love the new red outfit, makes him look less cartoony and somewhat more serious
2. He dropped the trampoline entrance, the bouncing of the ropes/front roll will be far easier to execute, as nobody needs to awkwardly wait under the ring with a mini trampoline.
3. His kicks sounded better, every hit on Slater looked painful

BAD
1. His finisher needs to be a submission, wrench the opponents arm when he hits the mat, otherwise it just looks plain boring. Also, submission wins will make him look more powerful (see Daniel Bryan)
2. We STILL have the "mood lighting". It annoys me, you can't see all the moves clearly and it doesn't add anything to the match.
3. The commentators were using the same commentary lines they used for his debut, he needs to move on with him gimmick.

What do you think?

 

[JaceEvans]

God I hate the mood lighting! It remends me of Glacier from WCW except without the "snow". If the WWE really wants me to take him seriouslly then drop it but I suspect this character isn't designed for me..

 

[RD_21]

I'm a big fan of Mistico and never saw him botched anything before being in WWE so his opponents knowing how to take his moves is key here and Slater clearly know how to sell and take move from this style of wrestling so it made a good match.

The light needs to go. It's funny because in Canada The Scores his showing WWE Vintage before Smackdown! and I just realised that when Kane started he had red light when he was doing his fight/match or at least he had it against Scott Taylor.

For the finisher, it's usually a submission move if you know him. The Mistica look awesome and I agree with you it should be a submission move.

 

[Darkdarkdays]

I've never really understood WWEs thought process when it comes to masked Mexican/Spanish/Latino wrestlers....There is a whole wealth of talent out there waiting to be signed and made into a superstar, yet WWE seem to think that having only 1 masked wrestler on the roster at a time is a good idea.
I know we currently have Rey and Sin Cara, but Sin Cara is there to replace Rey when he retires or gets fired (unless Sin Cara screws up again)

Ultimately,we will end up with one luchador style wrestler and no one else capable of having a good match with them...which is why I think Sin Cara's character will never move forward or progress beyond a mid-carder.

I completely agree with what gwarren said, keep his image but change his move set and make him more accommodating to the rest of the roster, while retaining some of his aerobatic flair.

Maybe someone should show him some old tapes of Vampiro/Super Crazy and La Parka

 

[Kizzani]

Anyone who has ever spent one day in a wrestling school in Mexico you would know the execution of moves is faster and more dificult. Their style is quick paced no stop action. Is isn't the WWE version of laying on the mat awaiting your beating.

Heath Slater did a great job selling the match and preforming with Sin Cara, too bad for sin Cara the WWE roster is not filled with great talent that can move that fast. On a side note Heath Slaters promo on Back stage fallout shows why he is never going to get out of the crappy hole he is in.

I like the New Look also and enjoy the finisher. I personally don't think it needs to be a submission to finish. and I disagree highly that Bryan looks powerful, no matter what he uses.

 

[whoopin' ass]

i wasn't that impressed but i have never been that impressed with him. i noticed they changed his entrance which is interesting and they changed his costume which kind of makes that while Blue vs Black angle seem dumb since he is now in red. maybe it is just that he has to slow down his style to work in the States but i really don't care for him.

 

[The Brain]

I haven't been a big fan of Sin Cara. All the flips and high spots were cool when cruiser weights started doing them in the states about 15 years ago but I need more than just a few high spots to care about somebody now. I don't really dislike him. He's just an afterthought to me. I want to see him in an actual angle against someone like Rhodes or Ziggler. I know he just came back so that isn't going to happen immediately but we've already seen him agains the Heath Slaters of WWE. I just hope he gets an actual storyline soon instead of just going out there to perform his flashy moves under the annoying lighting agaist low card guys. Hopefully a better one than the imposter Sin Cara angle. I hope he is a success because WWE desperately needs more mid card faces. I'm just not impressed yet.

 

[Pedigree1]

Agree with the Brain i really haven't dug into sin cara!! I like him okay enough but the flips were cool about 15 years ago when the cruiserweights were the shit! I wanna also see him in an actual storyline not go against the heath slaters of the WWE!!

But i do have hope he can be a good mid card guy but time will tell! Maybe when rey rey gets back they can have a match that be cool i think!

 

[OneTooManyPunts]

I'm may be in the majority, but I actually didn't really care for the new ring attire. I'm glad he got away from the blue and gold..but I just didn't really care for the white and red mix.

Definitely glad to see his entrance simplified. Being a high flyer, reducing any chance of him botching his entrance greatly decreases the chance of people being taken out of the match before it even starts.

I thought he looked a lot more fluid, and comfortable in the ring against Slater. Now, whether much of that falls on working with Slater, as opposed a larger opponent, or whether or not he's really been trying to work out the kinks in his offense remains to be seen, but he still looked really good.

The problem I have with the finisher is that, while it's flashy with the head scissors, it still looks rather low impact overall. We've seen the head scissors used a million times over, and it's never been a real game changer of a move, so it's hard to sell as a finisher, even if you are putting a bit of an arm bar in to the mix. Being as high flying as he is, his finisher needs to be as high impact, flashy, but safe as possible. It's what one thing that will make the crowd not only anticipate his matches, but keep them invested in through out.

I'll be interested to see, once he's in the ring with an opponent where he really needs to sell their offense, how well he does at selling moves. It's a difficult thing to really sell well, when you are completely hidden behind a mask. Facial expressions are such a huge part of effective selling, and it's an aspect he's working without, so he's going to have to use body language in a very effective manner.

My biggest worry at this point is where do he go from here? SmackDown doesn't have an abundance of talent that's really geared towards working with someone like Sin Cara. I'd love to see him in ring with Tyson Kidd or Justin Gabriel, as I think it would really get the fans interested in him, to see him in the ring with true, quality high flyers.

 

[HBsam31]

I haven't really been into Sin Cara. I did like the new outfit, and would love to see a feud with Rey, but like The Brain said, the flips and stuff were cool 15 years ago. He needs to adapt his style a little bit, and I liked the idea of him using submission finisher. It's not that I hate him, he has just been a non factor for me.

 

[guillomanml]

First off WWE needs to have more characters that can fly. All of you say it was only cool 15 years ago but 15 years ago ratings where a lot better. When you had WCW with wrestlers like Juventud Guerrera, WWE with Eddie,Rey. It's all about merchandise and fast moving wrestlers. Now it's just muscle guys that don't have no character. Just some tights underwears. Rey is gone basically we don't know when he will be back.

I love the Sin Cara moves and I have been waiting for WWE to bring back cruiserweights. I hate the fact that the rumors are a cruiserweight show. F'that, they should be in Raw and Smackdown so we can have fast pace and high flying matches. It's entertaining and they need to do something different because it's stagnant I mean they got the lowest rating in a long time.

I love the fact that he has a red suit and would love even better if they change it every week like Rey changes his masks.

The dumbest idea is to give him a submission move you ass, he is a high flyer and his finishing move needs to be as such. You don't want to give him a submission move. You already have Jack Swagger, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan. Come on dude! Sin Cara needs to have a high flying finishing move because thats how they promote him. I must say that his finishing move on Smackdown sucked. But I still like Sin Cara. it's different, it's a character, is merchandise sells. You can't go wrong IF you can make a great story line with him. the writers have work to do.

By the way the dim lights just adds drama, it's a temporary thing but for right now it works. if you know anything about lighting it works to add drama, suspense, effects, it just adds. And again it's temporary. He just got back let some weeks go by before everyone starts talking trash.

 

[slice_of_life]

His return match surprised me. I actually enjoyed watching it, which is something I cant say for his previous matches. It reinforced for me that the WWE really needs a cruiserweight division. A division that isn't so much about being heel vs face, but good competitive matches. It would be good for ratings. Guys like Bourne, Sin Cara, Justin Gabriel, Alex Shelley, etc. would put on great matches.

 

[satchmokilnt]

re: guillo
wowzer! way to just flip on everyone. Slamming people for not getting "the drama" of lighting is pretty stupid. If a change in lighting is needed to get someone over then its a sorry state of affairs. the whole history of wrestling would suggest that it doesnt work, the general consensus is that it is adding nothing of any value. and for many it actually hinders their enjoyment of the matches. who are you to say it's going to be temporary anyway? it's gone on long enough now for it to seem that wwe are wanting to keep it. surely if they were planning on ridding of it, anyone with a brain wouldve pointed out that him returning after a long lay off (and changing many facets anyway) is the ideal time to do so. also, when he was seen as "the hottest property in mexico" did he need mood lighting? or, do you think that wwe fans are just happy, clappy morons who ooh and aah at such joys as coloured lights?

you seem to be very ignorant to the fact that the customer is boss, and when it comes to sin cara, many people just dont seem to care for him or his character.

still, lets stick a few more lights on him. he'll be headlining wrestlemanias in no time!

 

[Dagger Dias]

I was really glad to see Sin Cara return. His return to high flying action was anticipated for the past few months. His new mask looked really cool and the new entrance might be easier to pull off without a botch now that the trampoline spot has been removed. I missed Sin Cara and look forward to seeing what kind of a push he might receive. An Intercontinental feud with Christian would be amazing. He's not ready to win the title yet but they would easily steal the show with their matches. I hope his red mask becomes permanent, it looks even cooler than his blue one did.

The best part of all with his return is the blue and gold lighting that stays on for his matches. The matches would be enjoyable enough for his high flying action alone, but those lights make it all the better. They help Sin Cara stand out. You know when you're watching a Sin Cara match within seconds just by looking at the lighting. More guys should use unique lighting effects, not just with entrances but even in matches too.

 

[Diet Soda]

The best part of all with his return is the blue and gold lighting that stays on for his matches. The matches would be enjoyable enough for his high flying action alone, but those lights make it all the better. They help Sin Cara stand out. You know when you're watching a Sin Cara match within seconds just by looking at the lighting. More guys should use unique lighting effects, not just with entrances but even in matches too.

I agree with everything else you said Dagger, but the lights are just horrible.

A wrestler shouldn't need smoke and mirrors to make them stand out. You know that you're watching a Sin Cara match within seconds by recognising Sin Cara. Dimming the lights in the arena I don't mind - since the transition to HD the arenas appear a hell of a lot brighter - that blue and yellow, though, is an eyesore.

 

[avriltt234]

at the moment i am not a fan of Sin Cara but i reckon if they put the Intercontinental Championship on him he would pick up the ball and run with it.

 

[The Grammar Police]

There should not be any apostrophes in the words "pros" and "cons" in the title of the thread. Putting them in makes the two words possessives, and since they are not possessing anything in the context of the title (because you are trying to use them in the plural form) apostrophes are unnecessary and change the meaning of the title from what you intended it to be.

Last night on SD, we saw the return of the "international sensation" Sin Cara, here's what I though:

I believe you meant to say "...here's what I thought:"

It annoys me, you can't see all the moves clearly and it doesn't add anything to the match.
3. The commentators were using the same commentary lines they used for his debut, he needs to move on with him gimmick.

The first sentence should read "It annoys me that you can't see all the moves clearly and it doesn't add anything to the match." Also, the second sentence should have a semicolon instead of the comma.


Now onto discussing the thread......I think that Sin Cara's return has been successful so far. His matches have been smooth and effective, and he has executed his moves well. A lot of credit can be given to the bookers for having Slater and Hunico as his first two matches as well. As a change of pace during a slow time in the show, I think Sin Cara can and will be very effective (at least as much so, if not more, than Funkasaurus). He does not need to be in the main event any time soon, but if the continues to build off this re-debut, then Sin Cara's spot on the card should be solidified. What he brings to the ring is definitely worthy of a spot on television every week at the very least, on either Smackdown or Raw if not both.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

First things first (Not sure if its been said) but he needs the lighting as he has damaged eyes and can only work in the dark but it should be healed in 2 years. Yeah I love the new costume and Apparently he didn't botch on SD so there is some improvement. Although I agree he needs a gimmick change I don't believe he speaks English so it's not exactly possible. I liked the old entrance but yeah I do agree its easier to do and considering his injury usually has a lasting effect so he needs to take it slightly more easy.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I'm not crazy about Sin Cara. His opponents have to work really hard to make him look good.....much harder than they have to sell for other opponents because Sin Cara launches himself in the air and is totally dependent on the other guy to locate himself in the correct spot to take the blow. Sure, everyone has to do that to some extent, but it's Sin Cara's entire in-ring performance. In the same vein, Sin Cara takes very little punishment; his act doesn't really require that he do much selling for his enemy. In other words, he doesn't have competitive matches as much as spot-fests that make the match look less like an athletic contest and more like a circus act.

That said, I think there's a definite place for him in WWE. He offers variety....much in the way Brodus Clay, Ryback, Big Show and the divas offer variety. All of them offer something different than the standard wrestling match. I think I would be bored watching a 1950's wrestling show in which each contest offers nothing different from the one before; just a bunch of guys in their underwear exchanging holds.

Of course, many of you on this forum claim to want variety, yet detest each of the performers mentioned above. You don't like the gimmicks and you don't like the storylines, but you want excitement and originality in every show.

To you, I offer Sin Cara. I don't think his act is particularly believable, but he offers something different and that's in his favor.

 

[RavenChaos21]

hmm, what can I say about Sin Cara that has not already been said. I am glad that they took away that damn trampoline so that he doesn't almost break his neck before the match even begins. I wish that he had more people that could work his style matches since his particular brand of wrestling is filled with spots. He still looks a little shaky in the ring but I hope that he gets more comfortable as time progresses. I hate those lights that he uses but if he needs them then I will deal with it. All in all I am indifferent to him.

 

[Teddy Irving]

I haven't had a problem with his return, I am not a big fan of the lighting but it does make him stand out. He has botched less than previously which is a good thing.

I however would not of cared if he had left and not come back he is a massive spot monkey as far as I can see, and as someone pointed out above as well. I also feel that although his numerous arm drags look complicated and flashy I just don't think they look particularly painful for the opponent and he does a lot of them. I just don't really buy into his offence and that is my main issue with him

 

[Workrate]

I want Sin Cara to succeed so badly. I really do. But here's the thing that I think is going to hold him back: they don't have enough wrestlers on the roster that use a similar high flying style, so it's going to be difficult to put on good matches on a regular basis.

If you think back to the WCW cruiserweight division, one of the reasons it was so successful is because the wrestlers didn't have to alter their style. Guys like Mysterio, Juventud, and Psicosis could do what they'd always done and because they had similar styles, they were much more apt to pull off risky spots. Even guys like Malenko and Jericho that competed in the division and were more technical wrestlers than high flyers were so good at their craft that they could accommodate the luchadore style. In today's WWE, there aren't many high flyers at all. Kofi Kingston is probably the closest thing they've got and his style is nothing like Sin Cara's. There's Hunico, of course, and Evan Bourne if he ever comes back, but there just aren't a lot of names that can facilitate good performances from Sin Cara.

Obviously there have been plenty of guys with luchadore styles that have pulled off good matches against bigger opponents, but I don't know, for Cara to really get where he needs to go, I think he needs similar opponents, at least until he's comfortable in front of the audience.

Also, that lighting needs to go. It seems even darker now than it did before. I liked it when it was a subtle yellow light, but the lighting they used on Raw made it difficult to see the moves.