Third Round - Toronto Region: Last Man Standing - Hulk Hogan vs. The Undertaker

Who Wins This Matchup?

  • Hulk Hogan

  • The Undertaker


Results are only viewable after voting.
No way in a month of Sundays is there anything that could keep Hulk Hogan down for ten seconds. In the height of Hulkamania, I don't think anyone got Hogan down for more than three seconds, let alone ten. In his entire pre-2000 career, I don't think anyone pulled that off. Undertaker has been put down by chloroform twice - at No Mercy 2004 and WrestleMania IX.

BUt Hulk Hogan wouldn't use chloroform!

Possible. What about the other ways that Taker has been beaten in matches where you have to be down for a long count. What about the casket matches at Royal Rumbles 1994 and 1998? Well, the answer is simple, interferance.

But Hulk Hogan wouldn't let his buddy Brutus Beefcake interfere!

Right. So, we need: heelish tactics and interference, which Hogan has never used. Oh shit, there's something coming back to me? What is it?


And he's brought friends!


Oh dear. Not looking good for The Undertaker. And before anyone brings up The Ministry as backing for Taker, I can tell you now that Mideon is probably not going to prove much of an obstacle for Kevin Nash.

As for those who doubt Hollywood Hogan's ability to avenge defeats of Hulk Hogan by using the nWo, I present WCW's highest point:


Hogan going out now won't be the travesty it was last year, but he should probably win here.
 
Can I just point out that if people want to use Paul Bearer and Ric Flair's intervention as an example of The Undertaker beating Hogan, can we just assume all of the nWo is at ringside also to tazer Undertaker's overrated ass?
 
Honestly, i could see this being a no contest. both of these guys would never stay down for a 10 count. hulk would just hulk up and taker would just do that thing where he sits up. the match would go on for hours. however, i'm voting hogan here because of the impact he had on wrestling. simply put, Hogan is a bigger figure than Taker and thats the difference in this match.
 
I am usually one to just state what’s on my mind without necessarily trying to sway anyone to agree or disagree with me. My thing is to just talk, but since this is such a huge match, I have to dig deep down and bring out some debate skills.

Gimmick – Last Man Standing
Favors: The Undertaker
Why: The Undertaker, whether heel or face is as close to unstoppable as it gets. He is not unstoppable on a Hulkamania level. He is unstoppable on a magical powers level. A chokeslam through a table, a tombstone, hell’s gate, and a couple of chair shots will put Hulk Hogan down even at his peak. Hogan has never been able to endure insane amounts of punishment that a last man standing match brings. Even Hulkamania the face of the 80s would succumb to the punishment that this match in this tournament would bring. Whether heel or face, the booking of this would be the ultimate accomplishment and “shocker” of the tournament. The great Hulk Hogan couldn’t conquer the Undertaker. Street Fights, Steel Cages, and even Falls Count Anywhere matches, are no match for the sheer brutality that can come from a last man standing match.

Endurance: The Undertaker
Throughout the eras…from the Urn up until now…the Undertaker has proven that he can last, and last a long time and take a lot of punishment. He has hardcore match experience…much more than Hogan. He lasted with Mick Foley the hardcore legend. He’s been in INFERNO matches and has set people on FIRE! He has chokeslammed people off of cages, and thrown people through tables. He has taken chair shots, and given them emphatically. He has proven to be one of the most violent wrestlers of all time. He even got hit with a sledgehammer by Triple H at WM17 and still kicked out! If a Sledgehammer can’t keep him down for 3 seconds, what can Hogan do that can keep him down for 10? A Leg Drop? Hogan is immortal in a regular match. Hogan is outmatched when you put the Last Man Standing stipulation in place…The Undertaker is just too violent, and has too much stamina both kayfabe, and non-kayfabe.

Moveset: The Undertaker
Hell’s Gate…nuff said. It put the Big Show out for 10 seconds, and was so devastating that it was banned from the WWE for a couple of months. Hogan and the Hulkamaniacs would be out for 20 seconds if ‘Taker slaps that on. If he can slap it on guys much larger than Hogan like Mark Henry, Big Show, and Big Daddy V and make them bleed, old baldy is in for a hell of a ride.

Brawling: The Undertaker
The best pure striker in the business. Opinion? Maybe…but it’s put over so much on television that I have to agree, because those strikes look awesome. Once this last man standing gets out of the ring (which it always does), Taker ups the ante to another level. The type of punishment the Undertaker is able to inflict is downright sinister. Look at the type of stuff he has on his mind.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-mKrKQpuE8[/YOUTUBE]

Hogan doesn’t stand a chance.

Now if you want to go into bigger draw, crowd support, who’s more over, who did better with the title, go ahead and pay homage to Hogan. He built the WWE and carried the company. But he still gets his ass handed to him by the Undertaker and doesn’t make the 10 count. He can take punishment, and even Hulk up. But he's done it before and Undertaker still beat him...twice for the title. Tombstone onto a chair, or a Hell's Gate puts Hogan out for 10.

Vote Undertaker. It is the best choice here.
 
vote hogan

Prime for prime nobody and i mean nobody would keep hogan,whether its "all american eat your vitamins" wwf hogan.Or NWO Hogan who would find a way around the system to win.Either way VOTE HOGAN.
 
I'm just not buying into the Hogan arguments so everyone save your breath in trying to debate me over it. I grew up watching both of these guys, I've seen them both in their prime and I can find no logical argument to make me believe that Hulk Hogan would win a Last Man Standing match against The Undertaker.

The Undertaker has the more devestating move set, he has the greater athletic ability, he's always been more ruthless, he's always been a better brawler and he has far more experience in gimmick matches than Hogan. Let's be completely honest here, Hulk Hogan is being given so many votes because of the legend that is Hulkamania. That's all well and good, but The Undertaker is one of the very very very few wrestlers in this tournament in which that simply isn't enough to justify my voting for Hogan over him.

Neither of these two really has had a clear cut victory over one another. When I was a kid, however, The Undertaker was the very first guy I ever saw Hulk Hogan wrestle in which he had to cheat to get a victory and this took place when Taker wasn't quite the same force as he would eventually become.
 
As much as this pains me, because I would've voted for Undertaker any day on a regular match, I simply have my doubts on his ability to keep Hulk Hogan down.

John Cena is hard enough to keep down for 10 seconds, but Hulk Hogan was even harder, which even though this isn't John Cena, I still think it's a decent argument to use.

Hulk Hogan while I don't necessarily recall him doing many hardcore based matches during his Hulkamania prime, as opposed to Undertaker, although Hulkamania was an incredibly hard person to beat, only happened a very selected few times as far as I recall (mind you, I'm not the greatest guy on old-school material, so don't kill me with a word fort if I'm wrong)

Hulk Hogan would be in a grueling match with Undertaker, but I eventually believe he would be one to stay down, and stay down for good.

Vote goes to Hogan..
 
As much as this pains me, because I would've voted for Undertaker any day on a regular match, I simply have my doubts on his ability to keep Hulk Hogan down.

What about Hogan’s ability to put the Undertaker down? I think it is a lot more difficult for Hogan to do. If it was a guy like Cena, Brock Lesnar, Stone Cold, or even HHH I would say they have a better chance than Hogan in this match . Hogan does not dish out punishment on a level significant enough to put the Undertaker down. Hogan catches his opponents with a late flurry of offense and gets a quick 3. He never puts people “out”.

John Cena is hard enough to keep down for 10 seconds, but Hulk Hogan was even harder, which even though this isn't John Cena, I still think it's a decent argument to use.

Cena is hard to keep down, but he has been put down. Let’s go to last year when the Big Show put him through a search light. The Undertaker is easily more sinister than that. Setting Kane on fire and throwing Mankind off the cage is evidence of that. Hell he even hung the Big Bossman! You think Hogan stands a chance against him with no rules what’s so ever?

Hulk Hogan while I don't necessarily recall him doing many hardcore based matches during his Hulkamania prime, as opposed to Undertaker, although Hulkamania was an incredibly hard person to beat, only happened a very selected few times as far as I recall (mind you, I'm not the greatest guy on old-school material, so don't kill me with a word fort if I'm wrong)

Hulkamania was never faced with a last man standing stipulation, and has shown that when the odds are stacked against him against a big heel or another mega face, he is more prone to lose. He wins one on one matches. Hulkamania is vulnerable in gimmick matches, while the Undertaker thrives in this environment. Probably the best gimmick match wrestler of all time. He has several that were pioneered by him, all being hardcore. Hell in a Cell, Last Ride Match, Inferno Match (along with Kane), Buried Alive Match, Casket Match, all of which he has winning records in, and all of which he has fought some big names and beaten them. With no rules, the Undertaker is about as unstoppable as unstoppable gets. Not even Hulkamania can overcome it.

Hulk Hogan would be in a grueling match with Undertaker, but I eventually believe he would be one to stay down, and stay down for good.
Vote goes to Hogan..

What would Hogan do to keep the Undertaker down? You have to say how he would put ‘Taker out…but you can’t say how…because deep down you know that The Undertaker cannot be put down by Hulk Hogan. He is not a weapons specialist. He’s not sinister. He’s not hardcore. He’s not stronger than ‘Taker. Would he be able to beat the 10 count after Hell’s Gate is slapped on? Absolutely not.
 
Cena is hard to keep down, but he has been put down.

So has the Undertaker. And far more often.



Hulkamania was never faced with a last man standing stipulation, and has shown that when the odds are stacked against him against a big heel or another mega face, he is more prone to lose. He wins one on one matches. Hulkamania is vulnerable in gimmick matches, while the Undertaker thrives in this environment. Probably the best gimmick match wrestler of all time. He has several that were pioneered by him, all being hardcore. Hell in a Cell, Last Ride Match, Inferno Match (along with Kane), Buried Alive Match, Casket Match, all of which he has winning records in, and all of which he has fought some big names and beaten them.

Hogan has shown himself prone to lose? Did I miss this period of his career?

And it's already been disproven that Undertaker thrives in gimmick matches, he's about .500.

With no rules, the Undertaker is about as unstoppable as unstoppable gets. Not even Hulkamania can overcome it.

Except for all those guys who stopped Undertaker. Hogan is possibly the most unstoppable force in history. Which is why the Undertake has fewer titles for shorter times.

What would Hogan do to keep the Undertaker down? You have to say how he would put ‘Taker out…but you can’t say how…because deep down you know that The Undertaker cannot be put down by Hulk Hogan. He is not a weapons specialist. He’s not sinister. He’s not hardcore. He’s not stronger than ‘Taker. Would he be able to beat the 10 count after Hell’s Gate is slapped on? Absolutely not.

He doesn't even have to knock him down for 10 seconds in that way. He could just pull a Cena over Batista from a week ago. Hell, the most likely result is both guys get knocked down, the ref starts counting, and Hogan regains his footing right before the 10 count while Undertaker doesn't.

Hulk Hogan is DEFINITELY stronger then the Undertaker, prime vs. prime.

And Hogan was never ever put down by a submission in his prime. Every time the ref would pick up the arm, let it drop, and right before the third try, Hogan would recover and escape, and he would do so again.

You're argument has a lot of factual inaccuracies and holes in your logic.
 
So has the Undertaker. And far more often.

How many Last Man Standing matches has he lost?

Hogan has shown himself prone to lose? Did I miss this period of his career?

Ultimate Warrior, Brock Lesnar, The Rock, Goldberg, oh and remember a guy named Yokozuna? Yeah, that guy kicked out of Hogan’s leg drop and beat him for the title. What else did Yoko do that night to Hogan? Oh yeah, a couple of Banzai drops, ultimately killing Hulkamania. After that he wasn’t seen in the WWE for almost 10 years. Yokozuna needed all of the roster's heels to beat The Undertaker and had to destroy his urn. When the Undertaker came back, he beat the crap out of Yoko, and shoved his fat ass in a casket. Hogan couldn’t lay Yoko out long enough for a 3 count, but Taker was able to PUT HIM IN A CASKET AND CLOSE IT!

And it's already been disproven that Undertaker thrives in gimmick matches, he's about .500.

Proof? Even so, he’s beaten way more experienced people than Hogan has far as hardcore and brutal gimmick matches go. See Mick Foley.

Except for all those guys who stopped Undertaker. Hogan is possibly the most unstoppable force in history. Which is why the Undertake has fewer titles for shorter times.
Who has stopped Taker? He is still one of the, if not THE most dominant wrestler today. Hogan unstoppable? Let me remind you how their last match went down.


Hogan got his ass beat, and his title taken. Did you notice the post match beat down? Oh yeah, that would go on DURING the match in this one. Hogan cannot withstand The Deadman’s barrage of offense.


He doesn't even have to knock him down for 10 seconds in that way. He could just pull a Cena over Batista from a week ago. Hell, the most likely result is both guys get knocked down, the ref starts counting, and Hogan regains his footing right before the 10 count while Undertaker doesn't.

What are the chances of him pulling a Cena? That wasn’t even thought of until Cena did it. It’s not realistic, and it wouldn’t happen here. This is unarguably a Top 5 all time wrestler. Its going to take more than tying him down to beat him, especially in a tournament of this magnitude.

Hulk Hogan is DEFINITELY stronger then the Undertaker, prime vs. prime.
How so? Hogan had to cheat to beat the Undertaker…and Hogan was a FACE! If he was so much stronger than him, why would he cheat? Hogan WAS in his prime then…Taker was a rookie.

And Hogan was never ever put down by a submission in his prime.
Hogan has NEVER been in the Hell’s Gate submission. Oh, and I forgot to mention, that The Undertaker has never been put down by submission EVER.

Every time the ref would pick up the arm, let it drop, and right before the third try, Hogan would recover and escape, and he would do so again.
Ref wouldn’t have to raise his arm. He’d be knocked out for 10 seconds. Once the Hell’s Gate is locked in in a Last Man Standing match, the ropes can’t even save Hogan.

You're argument has a lot of factual inaccuracies and holes in your logic.
But you haven’t disproved anything, nor have you opened up the holes to explain why Hogan would win in this setting against The Undertaker. The Undertaker cannot be defeated by Hogan in a Last Man Standing Match. If you gave me Austin, Mick Foley, or even HHH we can talk, but in this match type, Hogan does not stand a chance.
 
Acctually Taker has once by Kurt Angle but that was during biker Taker and it ended up as a draw just saying. Hogan could make Taker tap out or at least go unconciouss to win the match not likely but it's possible.
 
How many Last Man Standing matches has he lost?

None that I can find, but he WAS put down for 10 seconds by Dave Batista. Hogan is so much better then Batista, it's ridiculous.



Ultimate Warrior, Brock Lesnar, The Rock, Goldberg,

Only two of those guys beat Hogan in one of his primes, and only one during Hulkamania, and he still kicked out at 3 1/2. Do you want me to list the people who beat Undertaker? The list is much longer. Not to mention that only two of those losses occurred during the same calendar year. Undertaker can't make such a claim.

oh and remember a guy named Yokozuna?

He's that guy who Hogan beat at Wrestlemania IX, right?

Yeah, that guy kicked out of Hogan’s leg drop and beat him for the title. What else did Yoko do that night to Hogan? Oh yeah, a couple of Banzai drops, ultimately killing Hulkamania. After that he wasn’t seen in the WWE for almost 10 years.

Cool, all the Undertaker needs is a secret agent to pose as a photographer and set Hogan's face on fire from behind.

Yokozuna needed all of the roster's heels to beat The Undertaker and had to destroy his urn.

How delightfully indirect. In a more related matter, the Undertaker needed Paul Bearer, his urn, and one of the greatest wrestlers of all-time, Ric Flair, to beat Hulk Hogan. And even then it only worked once.

When the Undertaker came back, he beat the crap out of Yoko, and shoved his fat ass in a casket.

Just to be clear, that was after losing, correct, and being put out for months?

Hogan couldn’t lay Yoko out long enough for a 3 count,

Except for that one time he did.

but Taker was able to PUT HIM IN A CASKET AND CLOSE IT!

In the rematch.


Proof? Even so, he’s beaten way more experienced people than Hogan has far as hardcore and brutal gimmick matches go. See Mick Foley.

That's a two way street, because he's also lost to way more people in those types of matches than Hogan.


Who has stopped Taker?

Well, you already listed Yokozuna, but how about...: Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart, Steve Austin, the Rock, Edge, and Chris Jericho all took the world title from the Undertaker. Randy Orton also put him in a casket to beat him in a casket match, and Shawn Michaels beat him in the first Hell in a Cell. He has been put out for weeks and months on more then one occasion.

He is still one of the, if not THE most dominant wrestler today.

The championships don't back you up.

Hogan unstoppable?

I meant Hogan in his prime is more unstoppable then Undertaker in his. The win/loss records back me up.

Let me remind you how their last match went down.


I was really happy you did this. So, just so we're clear, "still-dominant" Undertaker needed outside interference to beat 49 year old Hulk Hogan.

Hogan got his ass beat, and his title taken. Did you notice the post match beat down? Oh yeah, that would go on DURING the match in this one. Hogan cannot withstand The Deadman’s barrage of offense.

Except that Hogan actually had Undertaker pinned and beat, if not for the distraction from Vince McMahon. That's a 49 year old Hulk Hogan vs. a prime (by your statements) Undertaker. Oh, and did you happen to notice taht after Hogan Big Booted the chair into Undertaker's face and then Hogan went for the pin, Undertaker was actually on the ground for about 20 seconds? That would be longer then required for Hogan to win this match.


What are the chances of him pulling a Cena? That wasn’t even thought of until Cena did it.

The chances are better then someone being able to keep Hogan down for 10 seconds, something that has never happened in a match.

It’s not realistic, and it wouldn’t happen here.

Weren't you just arguing for magical powers of the Undertaker, and now you want to talk about realism?

This is unarguably a Top 5 all time wrestler.

Umm, yeah, I suspect a LOT of people would argue that. Taker an all-time great? Sure. But top 5? I'm not sure he's top 20.

Its going to take more than tying him down to beat him, especially in a tournament of this magnitude.

Debateable, but semantics anyway.

How so? Hogan had to cheat to beat the Undertaker…and Hogan was a FACE! If he was so much stronger than him, why would he cheat? Hogan WAS in his prime then…Taker was a rookie.

Well, he had already been hit by a chair by Ric Flair and attacked by Paul Bearer, so I don't think a little underhanded tactics on Hogan's part were uncalled for. It's called "giving what you get."

Hogan has NEVER been in the Hell’s Gate submission. Oh, and I forgot to mention, that The Undertaker has never been put down by submission EVER.

He lost to the Anaconda Vice and Mankind put him out with the Mandible Claw. Also, he tapped out to Kurt Angle (while simultaneously pinning him.) All in his alleged prime.

Suneeboy: OBjection Your Honor!

Judge: On what grounds?

Suneeboy: It's devastating to my case!

Ref wouldn’t have to raise his arm. He’d be knocked out for 10 seconds. Once the Hell’s Gate is locked in in a Last Man Standing match, the ropes can’t even save Hogan.

Except that Undertaker would have to release Hogan for the count to start. And Hogan would invariably work his way up to his feet just before 10, just like he has EVERY TIME throughout his career.
 
Round three has been rough to me so far. First I had to put Sting over Angle, and now this.

I want to vote Undertaker. I really really do. So someone please give me a good slam dunk for an argument, because otherwise I think I have to put Hogan over here. It's Hulk Hogan, and it isn't a Casket Match, it isn't an Inferno Match, it isn't Hell in a Cell, it's a Last Man Standing Match. I don't really think Hogan-Prime can be put out for 10 seconds like that. If anyone could come close to doing it, it would be The Undertaker. But close isn't good enough.
 
How many Last Man Standing matches has he lost?

He hasn't lost any that I know of but he has also only won one. And that was against The Great Khali who is nowhere near Hogan's level.

Ultimate Warrior, Brock Lesnar, The Rock, Goldberg, oh and remember a guy named Yokozuna?

Wow. You just named 5 guys that he lost to over a period of 13 years. Two of those losses he was well past his prime and he also has victories over two of the five names mentioned.

Yeah, that guy kicked out of Hogan’s leg drop and beat him for the title.

Yes a few months after Hogan beat him in about 10 seconds for that same title.

What else did Yoko do that night to Hogan? Oh yeah, a couple of Banzai drops, ultimately killing Hulkamania.

Except for when Hogan debuted in WCW a year later and Hulkamania was still alive and kicking.
After that he wasn’t seen in the WWE for almost 10 years.

He was busy helping to turn WCW into the biggest threat the WWF has ever faced.

Yokozuna needed all of the roster's heels to beat The Undertaker and had to destroy his urn.

Yes, and he needed a fireball from a cameraman to beat Hogan.

Hogan couldn’t lay Yoko out long enough for a 3 count, but Taker was able to PUT HIM IN A CASKET AND CLOSE IT!

Wrestlemania 9. Hogan pinned Yoko 1,2,3, in a match that lasted about 10 seconds.

Proof? Even so, he’s beaten way more experienced people than Hogan has far as hardcore and brutal gimmick matches go. See Mick Foley.

Hogan has an almost flawless record in cage matches. Is that not a gimmick match?

Who has stopped Taker? He is still one of the, if not THE most dominant wrestler today.

Steve Austin, Bret Hart, Mick Foley, Brock Lesnar, Batista, shit even Maven holds a victory over the Undertaker.

Hogan unstoppable? Let me remind you how their last match went down.

Oh you mean when the Undertaker, still in his prime, defeated a nearly 50 year old Hulk Hogan? That's real impressive.

This is unarguably a Top 5 all time wrestler. Its going to take more than tying him down to beat him, especially in a tournament of this magnitude.

And Hogan is arguably the greatest wrestler of all time. What's your point?

Hogan has NEVER been in the Hell’s Gate submission. Oh, and I forgot to mention, that The Undertaker has never been put down by submission EVER.

Kurt Angle has made Taker tap out, not that it's relevant here because Hogan doesn't really use submissions.

If you gave me Austin, Mick Foley, or even HHH we can talk, but in this match type, Hogan does not stand a chance.

Just because Hogan has never been in a last man standing match doesn't mean he couldn't adapt and find a way to win. We are talking about the professional wrestler with probably the greatest win/loss record ever in his prime.

EDIT: Hulkamaniac beat me to the response
 
Yeah, this is going to Hogan. Someone up there said that Taker is a master of gimmick matches or something like that, but the fact is that he loses more than he wins. Hogan in his prime pretty much never was kept down for 3 seconds, much less 10. In typical Hogan fashion, he will overcome the odds and beat the Undertaker.
 
He hasn't lost any that I know of but he has also only won one. And that was against The Great Khali who is nowhere near Hogan's level.

He beat Big Show in a LMS match. Big Show was billed as ending Hulkamania for a while. Khali was unstoppable when Taker beat him.


Wow. You just named 5 guys that he lost to over a period of 13 years. Two of those losses he was well past his prime and he also has victories over two of the five names mentioned.
Name 5 hardcore matches Hogan has won ever against anyone the caliber of The Undertaker?



Yes a few months after Hogan beat him in about 10 seconds for that same title.
Yoko had already had a match with Bret Hart. He was unprepared.



Except for when Hogan debuted in WCW a year later and Hulkamania was still alive and kicking.
WWE Storyline wise, Yoko killed him for 9 years.



He was busy helping to turn WCW into the biggest threat the WWF has ever faced.
This has absolutely nothing to do with him beating The Undertaker in a last man standing match.



Yes, and he needed a fireball from a cameraman to beat Hogan.
Imagine the hideous things The Undertaker would do since fireballs would be legal in this match.



Wrestlemania 9. Hogan pinned Yoko 1,2,3, in a match that lasted about 10 seconds.
Yoko was unprepared. When they had a legit confrontation, Yoko ended Hulkamania. Undertaker would do far worse than Yoko, because The Undertaker is better than Yokozuna.



Hogan has an almost flawless record in cage matches. Is that not a gimmick match?
Its not a Last Man Standing Match, and his opponent was never the Undertaker.



Steve Austin, Bret Hart, Mick Foley, Brock Lesnar, Batista, shit even Maven holds a victory over the Undertaker.
So what. Those are credible opponents other than Maven...and those guys aren't undefeated either. That doesn't mean Hogan will win here.



Oh you mean when the Undertaker, still in his prime, defeated a nearly 50 year old Hulk Hogan? That's real impressive.
But he was the champ, so that means that he was the best in the company at the time, regardless of age.



And Hogan is arguably the greatest wrestler of all time. What's your point?
That was in response to someone talking about Hogan's greatness. Doesn't mean he won't get his ass beat.



Kurt Angle has made Taker tap out, not that it's relevant here because Hogan doesn't really use submissions.
Taker tapped out but pinned Angle at the same time. It was a draw, so it never went down as a submission.



Just because Hogan has never been in a last man standing match doesn't mean he couldn't adapt and find a way to win. We are talking about the professional wrestler with probably the greatest win/loss record ever in his prime.
Undertaker is one of those people who has a win over Hogan in his prime.
EDIT: Hulkamaniac beat me to the response
I have another post to reply to then.
 
Real hard. If u know Hulk Hogan, you know he's gonna get up at every hit Taker does. But then again Undertaker can just unexpectly get up quickly as well and choke slam him from somewere high. My vote (kayfabe) is Taker.
 
None that I can find, but he WAS put down for 10 seconds by Dave Batista. Hogan is so much better then Batista, it's ridiculous.
Was that in a Last Man Standing Match?




Only two of those guys beat Hogan in one of his primes, and only one during Hulkamania, and he still kicked out at 3 1/2. Do you want me to list the people who beat Undertaker? The list is much longer. Not to mention that only two of those losses occurred during the same calendar year. Undertaker can't make such a claim.
Please list the people that Hogan has beaten in hardcore matches other than Vince McMahon and Ric Flair.




He's that guy who Hogan beat at Wrestlemania IX, right?
Yeah in an unscheduled match after Yoko had already wrestled and won the title. He wasn't ready.



Cool, all the Undertaker needs is a secret agent to pose as a photographer and set Hogan's face on fire from behind.
Fire is legal in this match. Wouldn't have to hide it. He'll bring it to the ring and put it in Hogan's face for starters. Then Tombstone him on a chair, or on the steps, or choke slam him through a table, or put him in Hell's Gate and choke him unconscious.



How delightfully indirect. In a more related matter, the Undertaker needed Paul Bearer, his urn, and one of the greatest wrestlers of all-time, Ric Flair, to beat Hulk Hogan. And even then it only worked once.
They were one for one, and both cheated, but Taker was the rookie. Imagine if there were no rules, and imagine Taker in his prime. Hogan could barely handle him as a rookie.

Just to be clear, that was after losing, correct, and being put out for months?
No it was after all of the heels on the roster came out and helped, and Yoko opened the Urn which was Taker's strength at the time.



Except for that one time he did.
I forgot what this was in response to, but I'll answer with Hell's Gate/Tombstone/Last Ride > Leg Drop.



In the rematch.
Revenge is sweet isn't it?




That's a two way street, because he's also lost to way more people in those types of matches than Hogan.
But he knows what it takes to win them. Hogan just knows how to Hulk up and get a pin. He can't brawl on the same level as the Undertaker.



Well, you already listed Yokozuna, but how about...: Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart, Steve Austin, the Rock, Edge, and Chris Jericho all took the world title from the Undertaker. Randy Orton also put him in a casket to beat him in a casket match, and Shawn Michaels beat him in the first Hell in a Cell. He has been put out for weeks and months on more then one occasion.
Those people are Hall of Famers. What's wrong with losing to them? Hogan has lost to some of the greats also.


The championships don't back you up.
They don't have to. The skill, power, devastating moveset, stamina, speed, agility, and pure raw ass kicking ability back me up.



I meant Hogan in his prime is more unstoppable then Undertaker in his. The win/loss records back me up.
Undertaker is past what we would call his prime and he's more unstoppable than ever. Throughout his whole career though, he's shown that in hardcore matches he can go the distance. Hogan has never had to endure the amount of punishment that a Last Man Standing match would bring, especially from the Undertaker.



I was really happy you did this. So, just so we're clear, "still-dominant" Undertaker needed outside interference to beat 49 year old Hulk Hogan.

Hogan was the champ so he was the best at the time in the company. Why is age a factor here? He had the belt didn't he? Vince didn't really interfere. Hogan is just a big dummy. The Undertaker beat his ass and left him broken in the ring after the match. Have a match with no rules and Hogan won't stand a chance.


Except that Hogan actually had Undertaker pinned and beat, if not for the distraction from Vince McMahon. That's a 49 year old Hulk Hogan vs. a prime (by your statements) Undertaker. Oh, and did you happen to notice taht after Hogan Big Booted the chair into Undertaker's face and then Hogan went for the pin, Undertaker was actually on the ground for about 20 seconds? That would be longer then required for Hogan to win this match.
Hogan had the belt, and I will say it again. If you have the belt, you are the top guy and kayfabe wise you are the "best in the business". The Undertaker beat the best the WWE had to offer at the time...but he was 49 so the win isn't credible I see. Oh, after the match, Hogan was down for over 5 minutes. But I guess that's ok, because he was old.




The chances are better then someone being able to keep Hogan down for 10 seconds, something that has never happened in a match.
I don't like Hogan's chances.


Weren't you just arguing for magical powers of the Undertaker, and now you want to talk about realism?
Realism in that the Undertaker is too smart to let that happen to him. He makes the lights turn on by raising his hands for christ's sake :rolleyes:




Umm, yeah, I suspect a LOT of people would argue that. Taker an all-time great? Sure. But top 5? I'm not sure he's top 20.
Not sure he's Top 20? You don't even believe that.



Well, he had already been hit by a chair by Ric Flair and attacked by Paul Bearer, so I don't think a little underhanded tactics on Hogan's part were uncalled for. It's called "giving what you get."
Ok, so Hogan's revenge is cool, but Yoko's revenge on Hogan, or Taker's revenge on Yoko isn't cool. Giving what you get doesn't apply there I guess.



He lost to the Anaconda Vice
Did you really just say that?



and Mankind put him out with the Mandible Claw.
Mankind also got thrown off a cell by the same guy.

Also, he tapped out to Kurt Angle (while simultaneously pinning him.) All in his alleged prime.
Was considered a draw. You're reaching here. This has nothing to do with the match, and what Hogan would do to keep The Undertaker down.


Suneeboy: OBjection Your Honor!

Judge: On what grounds?

Suneeboy: It's devastating to my case!

Awww how cute...you're being clever.



Except that Undertaker would have to release Hogan for the count to start. And Hogan would invariably work his way up to his feet just before 10, just like he has EVERY TIME throughout his career.

Hogan can't get up if he's unconscious.

One thing I am noticing about the Hogan voters is that they are not stating how Hogan can beat the Undertaker, they are just looking for flaws in the Undertaker's career as to why he shouldn't go over 'Taker. Hogan is a legend and pioneer, but he cannot get past the wrecking ball that is the Undertaker. He is the ultimate assassin, and has beaten everyone he has faced at least once. Hogan cannot say that he has beaten everyone he has faced. The Undertaker has been in some of the most brutal matches, including the first Hell in a Cell, the first Inferno Match, and the first Casket Match.

The Undertaker has the power, skills, stamina, intelligence, and sheer killer instinct to take ANYONE out, especially Hogan. What people are failing to realize is that Hogan is not a hardcore wrestler, and is easily taken out by weapons. Also what the Hogan supporters are doing is voting off of love for Hogan, and not so much Hogan's ability to actually win the match. There is nothing that is in Hogan's arsenal that he can pull out to put The Undertaker down for a 10 count.

You can be in denial all you want, that is perfectly fine with me, but the fact of the matter is that a Last Man Standing match heavily favors The Undertaker, in ANY era as a heel or as a face. The Undertaker's ability to take people "OUT" will come in to play and should heavily influence your vote. Sure Taker has been taken out, but so has Hogan...but in the end they always got their revenge. Hulk Hogan does not have enough in the tank to take the Undertaker out in a Last Man Standing, all the while with standing the Undertaker's relentless barrage of attacks.
 
If this match was against just about anyone else, I'd give this to Taker. But it's HULK FUCKIN HOGAN. There's just no way anyone is beating Hogan in a last man standing match. As ThrilledHer said, Hogan was rarely kept down for 3 during his prime. How in the world do you expect him to be kept down for 10? It's just not happening.
 
If this match was against just about anyone else, I'd give this to Taker. But it's HULK FUCKIN HOGAN. There's just no way anyone is beating Hogan in a last man standing match. As ThrilledHer said, Hogan was rarely kept down for 3 during his prime. How in the world do you expect him to be kept down for 10? It's just not happening.

How? Very decisively. Tombstone on a chair. Or how about Hell's Gate held until Hogan is unconscious? That's how he beat Big Show in the Last Man Standing match they had. Or maybe he can chokeslam him through a table. Maybe Tombstone him on the concrete? Maybe throw him off of the stage onto tables. Maybe he would electrocute him. He can just choke him out, which is what he used to regularly do in his early years. The Undertaker has way more tricks up his sleeve than Hogan does when it comes to inflicting PUNISHMENTand putting people out. The Deadman can give it better than Hogan can. For that, he wins. Hogan is a bloody mess after this one is over.

You have to remember, there are no rules in this match. Hulking up and all that other finger waving shit doesn't mean anything when you're getting thrown off the ramp onto a table, or choke slammed onto a pile of tacks.
 
Was that in a Last Man Standing Match?

Yes. It was a Last Man Standing Match.

Please list the people that Hogan has beaten in hardcore matches other than Vince McMahon and Ric Flair.

I have no idea, I haven't listed them. This isn't a hardcore match, per se, though.

Yeah in an unscheduled match after Yoko had already wrestled and won the title. He wasn't ready.

Kayfabe-wise, Hogan also wasn't prepared for it, had also wrestled a match earlier that night, and had wrestled a much longer match then Yoko did. And Yoko challenged Hogan, you can't make excuses if you issue the challenge.

Fire is legal in this match. Wouldn't have to hide it. He'll bring it to the ring and put it in Hogan's face for starters. Then Tombstone him on a chair, or on the steps, or choke slam him through a table, or put him in Hell's Gate and choke him unconscious.

Now we're just making things up. Hogan could bring a chainsaw with him to the ring, or a shotgun. I mean, there ya go. Last I checked, this was a pure Last Man Standing match, not a match where they have a barrel of random weapons available to them. Pretty much whatever they have at ringside.


They were one for one, and both cheated, but Taker was the rookie. Imagine if there were no rules, and imagine Taker in his prime. Hogan could barely handle him as a rookie.

Actually, only the Undertaker cheated in both matches. Hogan avoided cheating. So yes, as long as Undetaker had two men helping him, he was Hogan's equal...for one match. They tried the same shit the next match, and Hogan overcame all three of them.

No it was after all of the heels on the roster came out and helped, and Yoko opened the Urn which was Taker's strength at the time.

This is more of that realism, right?

I forgot what this was in response to, but I'll answer with Hell's Gate/Tombstone/Last Ride > Leg Drop.

Not kayfabe they aren't. How many people kicked out of the leg drop in Hogan's prime? Ultimate Warrior and that's it? Meanwhile people get out of all of those finishers with decent regularity.
But he knows what it takes to win them. Hogan just knows how to Hulk up and get a pin. He can't brawl on the same level as the Undertaker.

And even knowing how to win them he still loses fairly regularly. Meanwhile Hogan is undefeated in those matches.

Those people are Hall of Famers. What's wrong with losing to them? Hogan has lost to some of the greats also.

Far less then Undertaker has. Hogan tends to win, whereas Undertaker loses quite often comparatively. You keep avoiding this point, that Hogan rarely ever loses, while Undertaker has lost far more often.

They don't have to. The skill, power, devastating moveset, stamina, speed, agility, and pure raw ass kicking ability back me up.

They certainly do. Kayfabe, titles are FAR more important then your subjective assessments of skill, power, moveset. Because even though you deem Hogan "deficient" in those areas, he still wins far more, and far more important matches.

Undertaker is past what we would call his prime and he's more unstoppable than ever. Throughout his whole career though, he's shown that in hardcore matches he can go the distance. Hogan has never had to endure the amount of punishment that a Last Man Standing match would bring, especially from the Undertaker.

If he's "more unstoppable then ever", then this is still his prime. And in his prime, he needed help to beat an out of his prime Hogan.

And Hogan had dealt with more punishment and overcome it in his career then Undertaker has.
Hogan was the champ so he was the best at the time in the company.

Ok, but that still doesn't make it his prime. That just means that an old, out of his prime Hogan is still able to beat these young guys in their primes. That's how good he is.

Why is age a factor here?

Because it's a big factor?

He had the belt didn't he?

Yes he did.

Vince didn't really interfere.

Hogan had him pinned. Vince distracted the ref. Then he distracted Hogan, allowing UNdertaker to attack him from behind. He certainly interfered.


Hogan is just a big dummy.

Ummm, how so?

The Undertaker beat his ass and left him broken in the ring after the match.

Except that he needed help to do it, and he should have lost already if it weren't for outside forces that wouldn't be here.
Have a match with no rules and Hogan won't stand a chance.

Yeah, that's what the history of Hogan's career tells us. Despite his copious steel cage matches (which are "no rules" as well) and wins, Hogan has no chance against a guy who has been beaten by Maven.

Hogan had the belt, and I will say it again. If you have the belt, you are the top guy and kayfabe wise you are the "best in the business". The Undertaker beat the best the WWE had to offer at the time...but he was 49 so the win isn't credible I see. Oh, after the match, Hogan was down for over 5 minutes. But I guess that's ok, because he was old.

the difference is that Hogan had already lost, so why bother getting up. If he HAD to get up, he would have, jsut like he had everytime throughout his career...unlike the Undertaker.

I don't like Hogan's chances.

You're biased.

Realism in that the Undertaker is too smart to let that happen to him. He makes the lights turn on by raising his hands for christ's sake :rolleyes:

He's too smart to let it happen to him? His prime gimmick was all about being a unthinking monster who thought he got power from an urn of ashes. Yeah, he was a real brainiac.

Not sure he's Top 20? You don't even believe that.

Your damn right I believe it. The guy is a great gimmick, but he was never the top draw of the company, and rarely the champion. He's held a World Title for just over 400 days TOTAL in his career. That's not a top 20 wrestler, sorry.

Ok, so Hogan's revenge is cool, but Yoko's revenge on Hogan, or Taker's revenge on Yoko isn't cool. Giving what you get doesn't apply there I guess.

Except Yoko wasn't getting revenge on Hogan, Hogan didn't cheat to take his title, so it's nowhere near the same situation, same deal with Undertaker/Yoko, whereas Taker and his crew were actively cheating in matches against Hogan, and their cheating backfired.

Mankind also got thrown off a cell by the same guy.

Umm, so what? That was a completely different match, and said that Undertaker had never been put down by a submission, and I was just proving you wrong. Which I did...


Was considered a draw. You're reaching here. This has nothing to do with the match, and what Hogan would do to keep The Undertaker down.

...Twice. You brought up the submissions thing, not me.

Awww how cute...you're being clever.

Thanks.

Hogan can't get up if he's unconscious.

Which nobody has ever done to a Prime Hogan in a match, but the Undertaker will magically do here?
One thing I am noticing about the Hogan voters is that they are not stating how Hogan can beat the Undertaker, they are just looking for flaws in the Undertaker's career as to why he shouldn't go over 'Taker.

Umm, actually I've suggested more then a couple of ways how Hogan would win, you just choose to ignore them.

Hogan is a legend and pioneer, but he cannot get past the wrecking ball that is the Undertaker.

If only he could reach the same level of awesomeness as the great Maven. Also, JBL who beat the Undertaker REPEATEDLY, but I bet you wouldn't vote JBL over the Undertaker. He also lost to

Jeff Hardy
Mr. Kennedy
Matt Hardy
VINCE MCMAHON (!!!!!)
RVD
Booker T
Albert (who?)
Rikishi
Vader in a casket match(who Hogan whupped)
MABEL (yeah, that's right, defend this one)

Oh, and that all-time great, Vladmir Kozlov.

Other then Vader, everyone on that list is not a HOF worthy wrestler as of now. And more then one of those matches were gimmick matches. For instance Matt Hardy beat him in a Falls Count Anywhere match.
He is the ultimate assassin,

and has beaten everyone he has faced at least once.
Hogan cannot say that he has beaten everyone he has faced.

Possibly true, I don't have a comprehensive list, but he's also had multiple cracks at people, whereas Hogan has only a couple of unavenged losses from guys he faced at the end of his career.

The Undertaker has been in some of the most brutal matches, including the first Hell in a Cell, the first Inferno Match, and the first Casket Match.

Didn't he lose two of those matches? Congratulations on his being present, though.
The Undertaker has the power, skills, stamina, intelligence, and sheer killer instinct to take ANYONE out, especially Hogan.

What do you call those things when he loses, which he does far more then Hulk Hogan?

What people are failing to realize is that Hogan is not a hardcore wrestler,

If the Undertaker is, he's not very good at it.

and is easily taken out by weapons.

LOL, completely ridiculous.
Also what the Hogan supporters are doing is voting off of love for Hogan, and not so much Hogan's ability to actually win the match.

Yes, history shows us that HOgan has a hard time winning matches.

There is nothing that is in Hogan's arsenal that he can pull out to put The Undertaker down for a 10 count.

If only he possessed the offensive arsenal of JBL, John Cena, Maven, and Kozlov.

You can be in denial all you want, that is perfectly fine with me, but the fact of the matter is that a Last Man Standing match heavily favors The Undertaker, in ANY era as a heel or as a face.

Just because you declare it as true doesn't mean it's actually true. Facts show us that Undertaker has a history of losing gimmick matches, and Hogan does not.
The Undertaker's ability to take people "OUT" will come in to play and should heavily influence your vote
.

As should his ability to BE taken out in these matches, and Hogan's abilities to overcome all odds and come out with a win almost every time.
Sure Taker has been taken out, but so has Hogan

Far less frequently, and by far better overall opposition

Hulk Hogan does not have enough in the tank to take the Undertaker out in a Last Man Standing, all the while with standing the Undertaker's relentless barrage of attacks.

Again, history shows us that Prime Hogan ALWAYS has something in the tank. Always.
 
As you can see from my earlier posts I voted Taker, but I'm going to give some advice to the Hogan voters. You should quit bashing Taker and start praising Hogan. Some of the arguments against Taker are laughable. Hell Hogan lost to the Genius and Billy Kidman. Does it really matter that Taker lost a worthless title to Maven in a complete fluke to advance a storyline with The Rock? Obviously these fluke wins don't mean much or we wouldn't have let Taker get by Tully Blanchard in round one by a landslide. We all know how great Taker has been over the years. If you want to vote for Hogan that's fine, but talk up Hogan instead of putting down Taker. And be consistent. Most of the examples of Taker losing are because of outside interference, but you just dismiss Hogan's losses for the same reason. At least when Hogan lost it was against Taker. The only argument I hear for Hogan is how no one kept him down for three so no one can keep him down for ten. Those were regular matches with rules. Tell me what Hogan will do to keep Taker down for ten. I think I've made a good case for Taker without putting Hogan down in post #21 in this thread. Check it out and get back to me.
 
Ah, finally, someone worth a damn has finally returned for a post. Yes, I realize you were the last one to post in our little tete-e-tete, but that's merely because I had enough foresight to answer all of your issues in the post before you brought up the sitz up argument. Granted, that was dealing with 48.7, but the same answers apply to you to.

But that's neither nor there. Yes, you make a fantastic point, that Hogan fans should start praising Hogan. We'll get to that in a second. But first, I need you to promise me that this whole "Undertaker sitz up" bull shit will die, and die immediately. I've brought up plenty of points of the Taker's sit up being rendered useless, and him not being able to do it. Still, Taker backers have climbed the Deadman Dick, claiming it's impossible to keep him down for ten seconds. Fact; it isn't. Plenty of people have done it to him. Hell, fucking IRS did it to him. Hulk Hogan wipes his ass with IRS' resume. So, please, shut the fuck up on this whole "Taker sits up" bullcrap. As it stands, Taker has been rendered unconscious for more than ten seconds far more than Hulk Hogan.

You want me to praise Hogan? Well, it's obvious, Brain; he is the absolute biggest draw in professional wrestling. He, and Andre the Giant, are the two wrestlers that made wrestling mainstream. One could argue that without Hogan, we'd still be stuck in the NWA, filling out dingy halls. Wrestlemania would be impossible, and the WWE may have croaked. I don't know how much more praise you can place besides that. Hulk Hogan is the reason the business is as it is now, for better or worse. Hulk Hogan has made wrestling the entertainment show that we know it now, and is probably half the reason many of these forums members became fans of wrestling. What the fuck else do you want me to say?

Oh, how about this? The guy only lost once clean at his height. The comparison of Kidman beating Hogan is really grasping at straws. We're talking about an era where Russo made it known he wanted Hogan buried. Plus, I give Kidman more credit as a wrestler than I would for the Dropkick Boy Wonder. Undertaker may be undefeated at Wrestlemania, mainly beating some mid carders and washed up hacks, but without Hogan, there would be no Wrestlemania for Taker to have his undefeated streak. Hogan main evented eight of the first nine. You really think any other superstar could have ever been trusted that much to keep Wrestlemania alive, Brain? Do you really think The Undertaker could have headlined eight of those nine Wrestlemanias? If so, you're even more delusional than I thought you were.

As it stands, people are buying way too much into the idea that "Takerz does the sitz upz!!!" That, plus the IWC has a raging hard on to shit on Hogan. The fact is, Hogan made this sport what it is today. I'd understand why people would think Undertaker is a better wrestler, I'd never dispute that. But in terms of who's done more for the business, and who goes over in this match? I'm going for Hulk Hogan on both accounts
 
In the case that Brain is referring to me in the "insulting Undertaker instead of praising Hogan" thing, I have to respond quickly. I am praising Hogan in my posts, but at this point Sunee and I are locked in a back and forth. We've both made our main arguments. Now we're mainly criticizing each others arguments with little snippets of reinforced arguments. So I understand it may look like I'm criticizing Undertaker, but that's really just a by-product of how a debate goes. sunee's posts look just as critical of Hogan rather then praising of Undertaker, but I don't think that's really what he's doing, moreso he's just attacking (in a good way) my argument.
 
You want me to praise Hogan? Well, it's obvious, Brain; he is the absolute biggest draw in professional wrestling. He, and Andre the Giant, are the two wrestlers that made wrestling mainstream. One could argue that without Hogan, we'd still be stuck in the NWA, filling out dingy halls. Wrestlemania would be impossible, and the WWE may have croaked. I don't know how much more praise you can place besides that. Hulk Hogan is the reason the business is as it is now, for better or worse. Hulk Hogan has made wrestling the entertainment show that we know it now, and is probably half the reason many of these forums members became fans of wrestling. What the fuck else do you want me to say?

As it stands, people are buying way too much into the idea that "Takerz does the sitz upz!!!" That, plus the IWC has a raging hard on to shit on Hogan. The fact is, Hogan made this sport what it is today. I'd understand why people would think Undertaker is a better wrestler, I'd never dispute that. But in terms of who's done more for the business, and who goes over in this match? I'm going for Hulk Hogan on both accounts

I had a feeling you would go there. You're right. Hogan's contributions to the business are enormous and he was the biggest draw. I don't see how that's relevant here. If you want to use that to support your vote then so be it. If that's going to be the argument why are we even having this tournament? If we're using who contributed most to the business, sold the most tickets, and made wrestling what it is today, a tournament is not necessary as Hogan would be the obvious winner. Based on that you must have made up your mind that you were going to vote for Hogan no matter who he came up against in any type of match before this tournament even started.

I am trying to use my imagination to see how this match would play out. I don't think Hogan would get slaughterd by any means, but I do see him losing a hard fought match. I think the match would be close and losing would not damage Hulk's reputation. I see him walking out even more respected like Steve Austin at WrestleMania 13. I have been very complimentary of Hogan and stated I wasn't sure what it would take to get me to vote against him. He happened to draw a bad combiniation by getting Taker in last man standing.

By the way I don't appreciate being grouped in with those who might argue "Takerz does the sitz upz!!!" There may be those who are brainwashed by such things, but consider that someone who disagrees with you might actually have a legitimate argument and an original thought. You don't have to agree with it, but don't group me in with those who use one sentence of misspelled and poor grammar. I may make mistakes at times. I may have started out a little weak in this thread, but I think since you called me out my posts have been at least respectable.

EDIT: I don't know if the last paragraph was necessary. If you were not grouping me in with that group I apologize.

Hulkamaniac, I get it. Sometimes thing go that way in a debate like this. It's easy to slip in that direction. It's cool.
 

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