They need to change how John Cena's feuds are booked.

[AegonTargaryen]

For the sake of the AJ Styles' and Kevin Owens' of the wrestling world, the WWE/Vince seriously need to reconsider the booking of John Cena's feuds and PPV matches.

This is what struck me moments ago, as I was watching the Styles/Club-Cena segment from Raw. Not only is Styles the far more intriguing aspect of the feud, and a superior wrestler, but also needs the second consecutive win on Battleground or whenever they're scheduled to face each other.

If you remember, John Cena faced Bray Wyatt for 3 consecutive PPVs in 2014, and won 2 out of 3 of those matches. Basically, it went like:-
WM XXX- John Cena def Bray Wyatt.
Extreme Rules:- Bray Wyatt (with Luke Harper and Erick Rowan) defeated John Cena by escaping the cage
Payback 2014:- John Cena (with Jimmy Uso and Jey Uso) defeated Bray Wyatt (with Luke Harper and Erick Rowan)

A YEAR LATER:-

Fastlane:- Rusev (c) (with Lana) defeated John Cena by knockout
Wrestlemania 31 John Cena defeated Rusev (c) (with Lana)
Extreme Rules:- John Cena (c) defeated Rusev (with Lana) (Russian Chain match)
Payback:-John Cena (c) defeated Rusev (with Lana) (I QUIT MATCH)

KEVIN OWENS FEUD:-
Elimination Chamber 2015:- Kevin Owens def John Cena
MITB 2015:- John Cena defeated Kevin Owens
Battleground 2015:- John Cena (c) defeated Kevin Owens by submission

WHAT'S THE EFFIN POINT WHEN Bray Wyatt, Kevin Owens, and Rusev all won the first match, and then went on to lose the subsequent TWO or in Rusev's case THREE fucking matches? And even Bray Wyatt's victory was tainted, as he escaped from the Cage only because of the Wyatts' interference.

We saw the same thing happen in AJ Styles' match with Cena on MITB. It's gotten beyond sickening by now, and I'm sure most of you have been pretty much desensitized to Cena winning most matches/feuds FOR YEARS, and in case he EVER loses any match(other than to The Rock or Brock Lesnar), it's always a tainted victory for the said opponent(from Bray Wyatt to CM Punk to AJ Styles). Even when Daniel Bryan did beat him at Summerslam, John Cena was like "Oh my shoulder wasn't 100%. But nice job, kid".

My proposal in this thread is- THEY NEED TO BOOK AJ STYLES' feud with Cena differently. Have him BEAT HIM at Battleground, clean or dirty.

And then book Cena to beat him(if he even needs it) in their third/final match(if it happens). Make it seem like it's John Cena who needs the win, not AJ Styles. That way, Styles' character can still be cocky and claim "I beat Cena twice" , even if he loses the final match of the feud.

If they book it like
AJ def Cena.
Cena def AJ
AJ def Cena

It doesn't look good for Styles. It's like the same old "trading wins" crap and deprives the character/future of AJ Styles the credibility and momentum it needs by beating Cena twice in a row.

AJ Styles is the one who has any sort of interesting element in this feud or otherwise. The guy is not only a better wrestler than Cena, but is the FUTURE for WWE and wrestling. And he's consistently proven to me that he's pretty good on the mic and as a character. He needs to win the next match.

The End.

 

[wrestler36]

AJ can be the present champ, and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a run with it, considering the awesome matches he's had with Jericho, Reigns and Cena, but realistically, at 39 years old and his high flying style, I wouldn't say he's the future. He's already had to take some time off of house shows due to injuries.

I can see him in some awesome matches with Cesaro, Owens, Ambrose, anyone really. But I just can't see him as a long term 'guy' or the face of the WWE. Not knocking him, but it's a young man's game.

 

[therockiswwf]

It was Cena's elbow, not shoulder. Cena cut a promo saying it did not factor into the match and that Bryan beat him 100%.

There is a problem with beating Cena frequently. Cena is special. He is above everyone else. He needs to be protected. If everyone beat him, then beating him would mean nothing. You don't just beat a Stone Cold, Rock, Hogan to get someone over all the time. You do that rarely. Bryan winning clean was a huge shock and cemented Bryan as a star. If Cena lost more often, that moment would not have been as big.

Wyatt needed one more win in the feud. Wyatt really needed a win in 90% of his feuds. Wyatt needed changes in all his feuds, not just this one.

I get why he beat Rusev twice. Didn't like them having a 4th match but otherwise I was fine with it.

I didn't mind him beating Owens twice. Owens was a rookie. Going over the top guy at the very beginning of a career is too much, too fast. Lesnar was an exception to something like this.

Top faces rarely lose clean. It has always been like that. Austin rarely lost anything. Hogan rarely lost anything. Rock lost more than the others but still it was rare. I'd argue the follow up to Cena feuds are awful. Beating him means you need to move onto something like a big name part-timer or a WWE title reign. Usually the follow up to Cena feuds are nothing.

I loved the CM Punk feud. Cena always had an excuse but at the end of the day, he could not beat Punk. Always had a reason for the feud to continue and came to a logical conclusion (Cena finally beat him on the road to redeem his biggest loss). Their feuds put Punk over huge.

Also AJ is 39 (38?), he is not the future of the WWE. AJ is not great on the mic. He is okay but needs a ton of work still. The Shield members are the future. KO, Zayn, etc. Beating Cena again would put AJ over and Cena could easily bounce back. AJ really needs to win a feud soon and going over Cena twice is perfect. I'm on the fence about a clean (AJ is a heel after all) win but two wins in a row without a third match is something I would not mind.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Yeah if you think DBs victory wasn't clean, you're a dipshit. And let's not forget, in KOs first ever match on the main roster, he beat Cena clean. I mean, you Cena haters (which you've proven to be many times in the past) sometimes are so blind it's stupid.

It's like you idiots want Cena to turn into Jericho inside of 6 months. If I have to explain that, then you're even dumber than I thought.

The only part of your post I've agreed with in the past is him beating Rusev that third time. Completely unnecessary.

 

[Jonyboyuk2]

What WWE should actually do is take advantage of the Brand Extension. Have Cena appear on Raw exclusively, and create a new star on Smackdown. Really push someone properly, get them over big. Get them beating all other stars on the Smackdown Roster and even win the IC title or US title. Then screw them out of the title, and do that by stripping them of the belt and keep them strong. Then transfer them to RAW, and have them go through the midcard and other main eventers before a WM show off with Cena. Then TURN Cena. That will lead to the next boom in WWE history.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

Cena is the Superman of pro-wrestling. Superman isn't going to lose to some rookie hot shot villain that came across him. That's the problem with Cena's feuds. He gets to face youngsters so early in their careers. Of course Cena isn't going to lose against the youngster. What I have proposed countless times, is to let the youngesters develop into stars and then face Cena, so that they can be on an equal level. But WWE likes to make easy money now, than make more money in the future.

With Styles, it's different though. The reason being that Styles isn't portrayed as a Kevin Owens or a Rusev or a Bray Wyatt. He's not portrayed as a rookie. He's portrayed as a big-time star outside of the WWE, as the phenomenal one.

WWE is trying to show that Styles =< Cena, in their best day. That's what the match at MITB showed me at least. However, Styles (w/ Club) > Cena.

I don't care about back to back victories, but in order for AJ Styles to really look phenomenal he must win this feud. Because of The Club. Or else the Club will become just another stable, like the Wyatts.

If it was just Cena vs Styles I wouldn't have a problem with Cena winning it, if Styles were to get a clean victory in there. But now that the Club is involved, Styles must come out 2-1 against Cena.

PS: I made a thread similar to this, two weeks ago.

 

[Woodstuff]

I don't even need to read the massive blocks of text to know you're simply over-thinking the product.

The face of the company is the No.1 performer on the roster. Of course he's not going to lose, because that's not what the majority of fans want to see. And if Cena did go on a losing streak, 'fans' would start bitching that WWE were jobbing him out and wasting his remaining years/ruining his legacy (lol), ala Chris Jericho.

The system works. It worked with Hogan. It worked with Austin. It works with Cena.

It's kept millions of viewers invested in the product for nearly 40 years. You not being one of them doesn't mean the formula needs changing. The only difference between Cena and Hogan is that there was no internet in the 80s, so the grown men crying about his lopsided booking had to settle for writing to Meltzer's WON, hoping he had some say in what went down on TV.

 

[OYDK]

You gotta pick and choose who you put over John Cena, and WWE has been very good at doing that over the past few years. When Bryan was red hot, they put him over Cena clean in the middle at Summerslam, one of the main reasons his momentum skyrocketed (more than it already had) was because of that win. When CM Punk had the potential to make as much or more money for the company as John Cena, he went over more than once. Kevin Owens came in with a ton of hype, and in his DEBUT, pinned Cena clean in the middle. The fact that he lost two straight is quite simple. You don't put the new, unproven guy over your top commodity because it hurts that commodity in the long run. Take my casual viewing family for instance. My dad and uncle could not believe that they put "that slob over John Cena" (in their own words) even once.

Guys like Bray, Rusev, etc. were not guys who were going to have more upside than Cena AT THAT TIME. As others have said, you don't job out the face of the company to people who aren't at that level yet.

As for Styles, we have yet to see his real potential. If WWE wants to go all the way with him and The Club, if they think they can make money off of him by pushing him to the title, than he should go over Cena. If not, he shouldn't, it's that simple.

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

Cena is the face of the company. He's the top guy. He should win most of his programs and rarely lose clean. That's how it works. It worked that way for Hogan, Austin, and Rock. If everyone goes over Cena it doesn't mean anything. If anything, wrestlers need to be booked strong after their feud with Cena. That is the problem. Sandow losing to Cena was fine, but Sandow missing PPV after PPV before eventually being booked as a comedy character was not. Beating Cena clean should only happen once, maybe twice a year, and the real problem is the booking the wrestler gets after losing to Cena, not the loss itself.

 

[Navi]

Pretty much what everyone else has said. Cena is the top dog and it takes an even bigger dog to beat him and there aren't very many of those in the yard right now.

Bryan's win put him over the top, Punk as well. Owens debut win solidified his place on the main roster. So when someone does beat him they make sure it counts.

The only person I have a problem with beating Cena is Del Rio. When Cena won the US title and was putting on those great matches each week on RAW, it didn't matter whether he won simply because it was the highlight of the show. When he left to film that TV show and dropped the title to Del Rio, what a mistake, Del Rio did nothing with it.

All the work that had gone into elevating it since Mania, gone. They should have had another open challenge and up the title on Cesaro or Zayn or someone like that. Not only would that have elevated the winner but the title might have also meant something at the same time. Now it's up to Rusev to do the job.

 

[BuriedByCena]

It's been like 15 years since Cena has ever lost clean twice in a row.

I can't even think of 1 example of that ever happening except maybe when him and Booker T fought for the US title in a best of 5/6 matches. One of you nerds will remember and you can tell me if he did or not. But since then. Cena has NEVER lost clean twice....NOT even to two different opponents!

The guy never loses 2 matches in a row.

I can already see the Burial of AJ Styles. He loses to Cena, goes to smackdown and spends the rest of his career in the mid card like everyone else.

 

[S.J. Maximus]

It absolutely blows my mind how people attack HHH and say he's buried people his whole career that ALWAYS win clean against him but when someone brings up Cena they say shit like "yeah but he's the top guy!"

It's crazy how hypocritical the IWC is but regardless of how you feel about Cena there should be one thing that we all agree on: The OP effectively pointed out that Cena's feuds are very formulaic. Regardless if you're pro-Cena or anti-Cena we all know how literally every single one of his feuds go. Lose one via dirty tactics, then win as many in a row necessary decisively to effectively prove that no one is on his level. This formula is no different than the formula of Jericho losing every ppv match or Bray losing every match possible. The idea of a character having a very specific formula to their feuds is a very big problem IMO and that obviously isn't just a criticism against Cena it goes for Jericho, Bray, and all the other people whos feuds seem to always go the same exact way.

It is most obvious with Cena because they give him so much air time and so much spotlight. It's a real detriment and to be honest it takes away from the quality of the match IMO because you know he's going to win (ex: every Roman Reigns match since Jan 2015). I would probably say don't have him feud, have him kind of bounce around or even hold a title - the intrigue of wondering "is this the time he actually loses the belt" kept every single one of those U.S. open challenges exciting. Orrr you can have him feud specifically with the guys WWE Creative is trying to turn into credible main event talent. Look at the Rock from 2000-2002, he was the clear top guy and literally faced off against every top guy of the era but his ppv win-loss record was pretty scattered. A win against HHH, a loss against Angle, a loss against Jericho, a win against Big Show, a win against Rikishi, a loss against Brock. All of those losses became top guys in the business pretty much instantly and the Rock didn't have to come back and beat them 3 consecutive times to maintain popularity. IMO it's a huge problem if you have to keep burying other guys to keep one guy over. He should bounce around, maybe lose clean to AJ then beat Del Rio, lose to Bray then beat Reigns, lose to Owens then beat Rollins and so forth. I would say either option (midcard title or bouncing around) would be much better options than just eating a loss and then completely demolishing people in rematches repeatedly.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

It absolutely blows my mind how people attack HHH and say he's buried people his whole career that ALWAYS win clean against him but when someone brings up Cena they say shit like "yeah but he's the top guy!"

It's crazy how hypocritical the IWC is but regardless of how you feel about Cena there should be one thing that we all agree on: The OP effectively pointed out that Cena's feuds are very formulaic. Regardless if you're pro-Cena or anti-Cena we all know how literally every single one of his feuds go. Lose one via dirty tactics, then win as many in a row necessary decisively to effectively prove that no one is on his level. This formula is no different than the formula of Jericho losing every ppv match or Bray losing every match possible. The idea of a character having a very specific formula to their feuds is a very big problem IMO and that obviously isn't just a criticism against Cena it goes for Jericho, Bray, and all the other people whos feuds seem to always go the same exact way.

It is most obvious with Cena because they give him so much air time and so much spotlight. It's a real detriment and to be honest it takes away from the quality of the match IMO because you know he's going to win (ex: every Roman Reigns match since Jan 2015). I would probably say don't have him feud, have him kind of bounce around or even hold a title - the intrigue of wondering "is this the time he actually loses the belt" kept every single one of those U.S. open challenges exciting. Orrr you can have him feud specifically with the guys WWE Creative is trying to turn into credible main event talent. Look at the Rock from 2000-2002, he was the clear top guy and literally faced off against every top guy of the era but his ppv win-loss record was pretty scattered. A win against HHH, a loss against Angle, a loss against Jericho, a win against Big Show, a win against Rikishi, a loss against Brock. All of those losses became top guys in the business pretty much instantly and the Rock didn't have to come back and beat them 3 consecutive times to maintain popularity. IMO it's a huge problem if you have to keep burying other guys to keep one guy over. He should bounce around, maybe lose clean to AJ then beat Del Rio, lose to Bray then beat Reigns, lose to Owens then beat Rollins and so forth. I would say either option (midcard title or bouncing around) would be much better options than just eating a loss and then completely demolishing people in rematches repeatedly.

Insightful! The analogy concerning The Rock's booking, in particular.

I had been thinking merely along the lines that unlike Rusev, Bray Wyatt or Kevin Owens, AJ Styles shouldn't lose the next 1 or 2 matches to Cena. It never occurred to me that they could actually make a top guy(let's say John Cena or Roman Reigns) far more interesting by booking him like The Rock back then. Just brilliant!

But alas, years of John Cena being booked like Superman has gotten me desensitized to the WWE. Or even the booking of Chris Jericho, like you pointed out. Everything has become far too predictable. Like our beloved Mark Madden used to say- Era of 50-50 booking.

Sigh!

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

Insightful! The analogy concerning The Rock's booking, in particular.

I had been thinking merely along the lines that unlike Rusev, Bray Wyatt or Kevin Owens, AJ Styles shouldn't lose the next 1 or 2 matches to Cena. It never occurred to me that they could actually make a top guy(let's say John Cena or Roman Reigns) far more interesting by booking him like The Rock back then. Just brilliant!

But alas, years of John Cena being booked like Superman has gotten me desensitized to the WWE. Or even the booking of Chris Jericho, like you pointed out. Everything has become far too predictable. Like our beloved Mark Madden used to say- Era of 50-50 booking.

Sigh!

How many times did Stone Cold lose clean? Everyone loved him.