the WCW/ECW Alliance Invasion Storyline

[adamisme]

hi all

i know we've had threads on this before, but i've been watching the raws and smackdowns from this period, just watched Invasion again and it got me wondering, how could it have been made better. Should it have been shorter, should Vince have done more to get the BIG names of WCW in rather than have them show up post invasion like they did. Were the WCW wrestlers treated poorly and made to look bad. Could they have brought in other ECW people rather than have Tazz, Dudley's etc turn on WWF. You know have an ECW faction in the company but have Tazz and all those who joined remain loyal to WWF but conflicted as its there company?

Thoughts?

 

[The_Gene_Genie]

I think the entire angle was rushed. Rushed both in its starting and to its conclusion.

It is well known that this angle died a death due to the lack of big name WCW stalwarts that made the move to WWF/E. However, I think the way it was written was too busy. Too many twists and turns rather than focussing on the actual Invasion itself.

I want to say that Vince should have made more of an effort to sign the top stars - but I'm sure every effort was made; but for a multitude of reasons they didn't come, whether they be personal or purely business, they just didn't come. That being said would it really have hurt the storyline to put a hold on it for the sake of a couple of month's negotiations with those top stars? I mean the majority of the bigger names from WCW eventually signed/re-signed with WWF/E in some capacity; Steiner, Goldberg, Hall, Nash, Hogan, Flair, DDP. They weren't held back and were thrust into the Main Event picture.

Booker T's initial storyline treatment by The Rock, when he asked him who he was, is purported as being a mitigating factor in Sting not signing for the company. But Booker was thrust into feuds with Stone Cold and The Rock -against the Main Event stars. So he wasn't held back.

Most of the ECW Alumni were already gainfully employed by WWF/E prior to the Invasion storyline and had held numerous titles between them. RVD was their shining light and he wasn't held back.

I'm just going to blame the writing and speed in which this angle was thrown out there. That coupled with the fact that the majority of the stars making the transition just weren't as polished or mainstream as they needed to be for the WWF/E, which was a totally different wrestling product to ECW and WCW in my opinion.

 

[P. Nut Butters]

I think it's fair to say that the WCW/ECW alliance roster was treated poorly and buried - with possible exception to Stone Cold, RVD, Booker.T (and later, Kurt Angle).

I was so excited when Booker.T started showing up on WWF programming because I really thought it was going to be something tremendously special: WCW invading ECW! The night that ECW arrived (originally to "save" the WWF against WCW), I was amped up to say the least. ECW coming through the crowd gave you that "Shit's about to go down!" feeling. In the end, shit did go down, but not in a good way. It kind of slid down the bathroom wall ever so slowly, so that by the end of the angle every one had smelt it and had enough.

The ECW troops get into the ring and shake hands with the WCW guys - but what really threw me off was when Paul E announced Stephanie McMahon as the new "owner" of ECW. Why?

Well, I know why; because the idea was to get the whole 'Shane & Stephanie are going to overrun Vince' thing happening... but as someone who watched the old ECW, why was this happening? Why was Stephanie just randomly all of a sudden the new "owner"? Bit of an anti-climax. At the very least, I was hoping that Paul E would start off as the owner and then it would later develop on-screen over weeks/months that Stephanie was in control... I mean, we knew the story behind Shane and WCW.

So Booker.T was in. DDP was in. Chris Kanyon was in... and Shane Helms, Billy Kidman, Mike Awesome (yada yada) - but where the hell is Hollywood Hogan or Nash or Hall or Goldberg? Sting was nowhere to be found either. Not Luger, nor Savage. That's when it got sour on me, really. I mean, they had Bagwell in for like 5 minutes, but no cigar there.

The thing about that was, there were really only two standout WCW guys there the whole time. If you didn't really watch WCW back then, you'd still realize: "Hey that's Booker.T/DDP from WCW!"

The Undertaker/DDP/Sara "stalking" angle was interesting to begin with, but they basically just buried Page for the benefit of the whole 'Brothers of Destruction' thing.

Another bad thing about the WCW-side of the roster was the lack of potential defectors like Benoit, Guerrero, Saturn and Malenko. Those were actually former-WCW guys who would've fit a lot more solidly into the mix I think.

ECW had more potential at first, in my opinion. I always thought ECW (as it was obviously not built-up enough to be considered a solid #2) could've played a much better 'mafia' kind of deal. Like hired hands almost. I got the feeling that's the way they were brought in anyway. As troops. Maybe they could've done a more extensive and intriguing wild-card thing with the ECW boys. It would've kept people a lot more interested.

They kind of did something like that with Van Dam. Towards the Survivor Series, somebody was going to jump-ship to the WWF and you got the feeling that it was going to be Van Dam. It also happened with Austin a little bit as well. I was glad to see guys like Lance Storm, Rhyno, Raven, RVD (among others) get exposure on WWF TV. Lance had some real solid matches, including with Edge at SummerSlam 2001 for the IC title. I've always been a big Rhyno mark and RVD was absolutely outstanding for the entire InVasion angle. I was marking for the Dudleyz and Rhyno and Raven and the others jump back to ECW. I thought it's what they really needed for a boost.

Steve Austin, the biggest WWF superstar at the time (considering that The Rock was out in Hollywood at the angle's inception) jumps to the alliance? Are you kidding me? Okay, shocking. But it was only a few weeks back that Austin came out and handed the invaders their asses in a hand basket. So now Austin's on team WCW? I was scratching my head. Austin was fired over the phone by Bischoff and even though Bisch wasn't a part of the angle, it was the dumbest thing to have Austin jump from the get-go.

Kronik would've been an awesome addition for the alliance, had they stuck around. Personal opinion. I thought Stevie Richards as their insane manager was awesome.

The Rock and Jericho's feud at the time of that angle was one of the best things going. I loved Jericho's push. He deserved it too and I think it was also cunning (in a good way) that they never had him jump-ship, even though you kind of felt like he might.

Kurt Angle being the "mystery" WWF defect? Big mistake. Angle and Austin had one hell of a match at SummerSlam for the WWF title. Angle also won the title back in his hometown and that was a glorious thing for the WWF - but he's the fellow who jumps to the alliance? I thought he'd been jealous that Austin was Vince's "new best friend"? Well, Austin was in the alliance and Kurt followed suit... That was just wrong.

The shit that they dragged The Rock through after his main thing with Booker.T was also boring as hell. I think this was before the feud with Jericho, and they had him in all these handicap matches and just really lackluster situations.

Anyway, the Alliance angle wasn't as bad as people often say it is. I was in my "big wrestling fan" stage back then and often go back and watch the old VHS's that I have from 1997-2002 since I used to tape all the shows. It did suck to an enth degree and some of it made absolutely no sense, but there was good and bad and it was (in my opinion) definitely better than anything from 2006 onwards.

----------
Honorable Mentions:
RVD vs Jeff Hardy (SummerSlam 2001; Hardcore Ladder Match)
Angle vs Austin (SummerSlam 2001)
The Rock/Jericho Feud

----------
Downsides:
William Regal's utterly useless defection, only to become the WCW Commissioner
The "Stephanie slapped Linda" issue leading up to the Survivor Series
WWF defectors being bigger than the actual invaders and the misuse of the WCW/ECW locker in general

 

[deadtaker]

There are a few things that confused me about the invasion angle. Why did they bring there own belts with them to lose? If you are trying to take over someone else's company why do you want to lose what you already have. You will be fearful of losing your heavyweight belt instead of trying to win the other companies belt.

I know they need star power in the WCW side as many of the top names hadn't come over but why have the biggest WWF stars jump over. Stone Cold may have wrestled in WCW but he made his rise in WWF and thats where he made a name for himself. Kurt Angle never wrestled in WCW but was used as a mole. Why not have guys like Benoit, Jericho, Big Show jump over as they were WCW stars.

 

[fenfool]

All I remember was them putting up a video of a few WCW stars...Jarrett was one, there were others...and just burying them. I hated to see that, so I couldn't watch them do that every week, I stopped watching for a while. I also remember McMahon in the ring running down some names, again I only remember Bagwell, but he looked surprised it got such a reaction. I just hated that he was so set on burying everyone, felt like he won and I lost. It took me a while to start watching again, I caught bits and pieces of it here and there to see if the WCW/ECW guys were doing anything, but mostly read the recaps for a year or two. WCW was awful by that time, and ECW had fallen apart, but they were MINE, dagnabbit!

 

[A-KO]

all of the top WCW stars (Sting, Nash, Hall, Hogan, Goldberg, Steiner, etc) were signed to contracts to Ted Turner (or Warner/ AOL). If Vince McMahon was to buy out all of their contracts it would cost a fortune. WWE was being sued by the WWF (Worldwide wildlife fund) over use of the letters WWF around the same time, hence why the name change in Mid 2002 to World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE).

He had just aquired in the region of 40 odd wrestlers, diva's and referees, not to mention agents, writers, bookers and other personnel. It all comes down to money. And at the end of the day, yes it was rushed to end at Survivor Series, but most of the time the fans were getting bored.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

As I have always said, the problem with this was the decision not to keep WCW afloat as a seperate brand or company... Had they done that for a year, then the Invasion would have meant a hell of a lot more than it actually did. Guys like Sting would have signed and the whole thing would have had a massive boost...

It always has seemed a dumb move to me to kill WCW that had 10+ years of brand recognition, fanbase and goodwill only to make Smackdown the 2nd brand 2 years later... The numbers and talent were there, even without the expensive contracts of others... simply shift a few WWF midcarders over and job done...

Some guys were going to be buried no matter what, Jarrett had played the companies off against each other several times and held Vince up for money to drop the IC belt to Chyna... no way was Vince gonna be kind to him... Bagwell came in and blew it for himself with his attitude. Kronik wanted too much dough after (adam) bombing in WWE before...

The biggest problem for talent was that WCW had let so many guys write their own tickets and get aways with murder that they failed to realise they had to take less and change their attitude or drop out of sight... That many chose to sit out their WCW deals summed it up... they may have come in later but they never really got over in WWE or with Vince.

There was also the element of the "Titan Training" aspect for many of the WCW only guys... Vince would have had a hard time justifying putting Booker T or DDP over guys who had "done the WWF schedule" for years or guys like Benoit and Jericho who made the leap earlier and were key in the win over WCW.

Eventually most of the Alliance guys got their time in the sun... Most got titles, some got Main Event runs like Booker and RVD, some got IC titles like Rhyno... in reality only 3 ever bombed out, Bagwell, DDP and to a lesser extent Helms...

 

[justinept]

The Invasion storyline is the biggest disappointment of the mainstream wrestling era (which I say began when Hulk Hogan won the title from the Iron Sheik). Never before had their been an angle so highly anticipated by the fans ... never before had the top-2 mainstream US wrestling promotions been able to pit their top stars against one another.

I was 10-years old when Nitro debuted and 16-years old when it aired its final show. I remember riding the bus in the early years of the Monday Night Wars and talking with my friends about the dream match-ups that would exist between WWF and WCW. Sting vs. Bret Hart. The Giant/Big Show vs The Undertaker. Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair. The matches were really endless as it pertained to pitting the top talents in both companies against one another ... As I got older, and the conversation shifted from the bus to my basement, my friends and I dreamt about matches pitting Kurt Angle against Chris Benoit ... or The Rock against Chris Jericho ... Austin vs Goldberg ... even seeing Vince McMahon square off against Eric Bischoff.

And that was one of the biggest problem with the angle. A lot of those match-ups we dreamt of had already happened as the WWF severely raided WCW in the years before its demise ... and even worse, the top WCW names that stayed loyal to the company until its death, didn't come to WWF for the angle.

It has been stated - perhaps even overstated - that the lack of Sting, DDP, Hogan, Flair, Nash, Hall, Goldberg, Bischoff and the other marquee names of WCW prevented the angle from seeing its true potential. I like the question posted earlier in this thread - Would the angle have been better had VKM waited a few months to begin the angle? I think there's no doubt that had VKM just waited to sign some top WCW names - Goldberg, Bischoff, DDP, Hogan, Hall and Nash ALL signed with the company within 6 months of the angle ending - that the angle would have been a huge success. Because he wanted to hit the angle immediately - because Team WCW lacked star power outside of Booker T - the WWF had to throw in ECW and current WWF stars to Team WCW to make it a viable threat. It killed the allusion that the angle was really between WWF and WCW.

But - that wasn't the biggest problem with the angle.

The biggest problem was VINCE McMAHON's EGO.

Vince McMahon didn't start WCW. WCW wasnt his creation. WCW almost took he WWF out of business in the mid 90's. VKM treated this storyline like a damned voodoo doll ... hoping that if WWF squashed WCW in the storyline, then it would all but eliminate the memory of WCW as a major wrestling power in the mid 90s. He tried to kill WCW's credibility through this angle - and that might be a big reason why many of the big names didn't come over until the angle was completed. Why would guys like Ric Flair, DDP and Goldberg go to the WWF during an angle that was spitting all over the company that had made them major names - why would they help the WWF spit on their legacy?

And one last problem to the cluster angle that I've never honestly heard discussed:

Who was the good guy in this battle?! Who were we supposed to cheer for?

This fight took place on the WWF's turf. They were being "invaded" by the remnants of a company that was its biggest enemy. There were a lot of impassioned WWF fans that severely HATED WCW and refused to watch it. Likewise, there were severe WCW fans that hated the WWF and refused to watch it even after Nitro went off the air! Since most Nitro fans didn't shift to WWF television after the Monday Nights War ended (if they did, the ratings would have nearly doubled for Raw...) then we're talking about a battle between WWF and WCW viewed solely by WWF fans! Team WCW should have been the most hated faction in the history of pro wrestling! Team WWF should have been the most beloved faction in the history of pro wrestling!

But I just remember a lot of lukewarm responses to both sides! Why?

....Because Team WWF was led by the most hated villain the company had produced in 20 years! Fans might have wanted to see the WWF win, but no one wanted to see Vince McMahon win! Cheering for the WWF meant cheering for Vince, and for some reason, Vince continued his heel character throughout the storyline despite leading a face faction.

 

[RicSpade]

In all honesty the feud should've started at Wrestlemania to make it mean something, think about it they acquire WCW then all the WCW guys do is sit there and watch Shane whoop Vince's Ass I would've like to seen them brawl WCW vs WWE right there. Then you factor in to make their version of WCW known they give them one main event with their announcers and of course you had to pick the worst wrestler on the planet Buff Bagwell which you seen how that turned out for him, and then basically picked up the Invasion Angle from there.

I honestly think if they invaded starting at Wrestlemania and then said because we own part of WWE, WCW holds the right to their own show and acquired WCW Smackdown. Have them invade Raw and invite WWE wrestlers on RAW to come to Smackdown and then go from there. Then have these guys winning titles, people swapping brands the whole ECW thing, etc. etc. and then if it wasn't working culminate in the whole WCW vs WWE one brand survives and then decide that it was almost as bad as starting the XFL...

 

[SFC]

I've written countless of editorials on The Alliance angle, and honestly, I could write thousands more.

Not worth it though.

The Alliance angle wasn't about WWF/E vs. WCW. It was about Vince McMahon vs. Shane/Stephanie McMahon. The focus on the fact that The Alliance had invaded was essentially pointless after a while, and it simply turned into a revenge factor of Shane and Stephanie trying to overthrow their father.

They had spent over half a year setting up Vince as the main heel in the Shane vs. Vince angle. And if I'm not mistaken, I think they did a pretty decent job. The affair, the divorce, and it made Shane one of the ultimate babyfaces. So WHY THE HELL switch that around, try to pass off Vince as a hero, then turn a likable Shane as a big heel? No sense.

And don't forget, had he been healthy, Vince would have been in the Survivor Series match. I wonder who would have gotten the final pin if that happened....

All of The Alliance's main players were defected WWF/E superstars. Angle, Austin, Test, Dudleyz, Shane, Rhyno, etc. Hell, in the Survivor Series match, it was eight WWF/E guys and only two from WCW/ECW!

As mentioned above, this was about ego, so because of it, the angle was wasted.

Not to mention, imagine what you could have done with HHH in this angle...

 

[rge2010]

I think it gets ALOT of unfair criticism. At the time, I really enjoyed the angle. Yeh, looking back it could of been MUCH better. The AOL/Time Warner contract issues were a major sticking point. Vince's hands were tied. People say it was rushed but they had to strike while the iron was hot. It wouldnt of made sense to wait until Hogan, Steiner, Nash, Hall, Goldberg were available and run the Invasion angle a year or 2 later.

What we did get was the nWo invading though, which was pretty cool.

 

[TUFFY54]

There were 3 main reasons it failed:

Lack of Alliance Sucess The Alliance was made to look very weak. They got beaten every week by the WWE guys, and only made a comeback when they had Austin and Angle join them. They should have always gotten the upper hand, throught cheating or double teams, and kept the WWE on the defense until the end. Remember, going into Survivor Series, team WWE had all the belts. It just didn't seem like a fair fight.

The McMahons The angle started with Shane challenging Vince on Nitro. Why? With all the talent WCW had, it should have been Ric Flair comming out and giving the greatest speech of all time. Nitro should have ended with Ric saying something to the effect of "the war is just begining, we will see your ass in New York". They had so many great leaders they could have used. Bischoff, Heyman, or Flair could have been great leading the Alliance. Instead, you have Shane and Stephanie, who's lives revolve around the WWE, trying to put it out of business. The Invastion still had hope until Steph was named leader of ECW. At that moment, it was ruined for good.

They Couldn't Get The Big Stars - This is the biggest lie in the history of wrestling! Vince could have easily brought everyone in. These facts come from the book The Death of WCW: in 2001 Vince McMahon earned a net profit of over 60 million dollars. The Invasion PPV that stared the war was so anticiapated that it made a 10 million dollar profit. Thats how badly people wanted to see the WWE against the Alliance. Remember, it did that number with the only two big WCW guys being DDP and Booker T. With the ten million dollar profit, Vince would have had the money to buy the contracts of Ric Flair, Goldberg, and Scott Steiner. This would have gotten the ball rolling. At Summerslam, people would have paid ever more money to see these WCW guys and the PPV would have been every more succesfull than Invasion. With the Summerslam money, Vince could have gotten Hogan, Hall, Nash, and Sting. Getting these seven contracts would have probably lead to Survivor Series being the highest grossing PPV in WWE history. Imagine what the main event would have been.

Hogan, Flair, Sting, Goldberg, Nash
vs.
Austin, Rock, Angle, Taker, Jericho

Something like that would have made Vince more money than he had ever seen in his life. Vince had one main reason for not brining in the main guys: he said he didn't want to have to pay them their money because it would upset the salery structure with the WWE wrestlers. Well, over the next two years he brought everyone but Sting in, and it did upset the salary structure. I can assure you that none of these guys took a paycut when Vince brought them in. However, if they had come in as a group, fans would have gone insane and made WWE more money than it had ever seen. And all the WWE guys would have made more as well. In the end, Survivor Series did a buy rate that was half of Invasion, and ratings fell by 40%. If Vince had brought the big names in, we would have remembered this as the single greatest angle in the history of wrestling. Unfortunatlly, it was probably one of the worst.

 

[rge2010]

Some good points TUFFY. I think the storyline also failed from lack of stars on the WWE side aswell. Triple H, Chris Benoit and Rikishi (quite a name at the time) were not involved in the angle. The Rock also missed it up until the end. Plus The Alliance had Austin and Angle. I think Triple H would of run the alliance had he not been injured. Maybe at the side of Austin or maybe against Austin.

Maybe Big Show, Chris Jericho and a few others with WCW links should of defected.

 

[Richie Cult]

I was so excited when the WWE unleashed the "Invasion Angle". I just think they bit off more than they could chew and had they NOT gone after the huge stars of WWE with the "B Team", they could have done something like the Nexus nowadays. Kronik should not have gone against Kane & Undertaker. They should have feuded with the WWE's B-Team tag teams. The WWE just wanted to disintegrate the WCW belts or re-assign them.

What I really wanted was for Stephanie & Shane McMahon (mostly Shane) to REALLY have their own WCW / ECW show to compete with the WWE. Not Vince telling Shane what he wants WCW & ECW to be doing, but to give Shane a chance to see if he could have competed with WWE. All $$$ profit would have stayed in the family and the fans would have the benefit. If Shane paid a WWE star to defect to his brand / promotion, Vince would be angry, but not "Vince vs. Ted Turner Angry". The WWE dropped the ball so bad with that that I dramatically cut down on watching until an alternative (TNA) came around.

 

[Hitman-HBK United Inc.]

That's what bugs me, maybe the salary structure would've upset the boys, but of course ego got in the way of the fact, that this was going to make ALL the parties involved, very RICH! I guess because the heated rivalry between the two companies, it didn't allow anyone to see the logic of it, over the ego aspect. There are a million and one things, and maybe 3 or 4 more, they could've done with this angle. With careful thought from creative, every PPV could've drawn over half a million buys, leading to a HUGE Wrestlemania where they could've set a record.

I've obviously dreamed up the ideas I'm sure all of you had at one point or another, Austin/Goldberg, Sting/Taker, Rock/Flair, Hogan/Anybody! One that I always dreamed up was Jericho & Raven, declaring war on WCW main event guys, trying to prove that they did have what it took, and now they get the chance.