How the Invasion angle COULD have been...

[pyrusane]

It has been discussed ad nauseum about how poorly executed the Invasion angle of 2001 was executed. The two biggest names to come in at this time were Booker T and DDP, and they had to resort to turning most of the former ECW talent that were already on the roster (Rhyno, The Dudley's, et. al.) just to make it semi-work.

However, over the two years or so after the Invasion angle ended, there was a virtual plethora of former WCW stars that trickled into the WWF/E at one point or another. How much different might things have gone if they had all come in from the onset of the angle?

Lets look at a few of the names that came (back) to WWF/E over he next two years or so. Hall, Nash, & Hogan as the NWO; Scott Steiner; Rey Mysterio; Goldberg; Ric Flair; and the perfect person to be the figurehead leader of the Invasion, Eric Bischoff. Add in Booker T and DDP (with a decent gimmick), and you have the majority of WCW's main event scene, minus Sting. How much more legitimate might the Invasion have seemed with these guys?

Of course, there is the argument that VKM would have just buried them all to prove that WWF/E was always the superior product, but I like to believe that he would have at least given this a shot to see what it could do for ratings.

Your thoughts?

 

[KillBill]

I've mentioned this before. The original plan was to run WCW for 2 years before doing the invasion. It would have been much better with all these guys, and I think Vince would have let it. Even if they were all under contract, but didn't wrestle, almost just disappeared for 2 years. With all these guys, maybe Sting would have joined in. Don't forget, a lot of WCW midcarders came in too during this time, The Cat, Jindrak, Stamboli, and Vito, as well as a repackaged O 'Haire. It would have been interesting.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

First and foremost people need to understand that Vince McMahon does indeed hold grudges. Guys like Lex Luger, Jeff Jarrett, and especially Eric Bischoff at that time.. were anything but in Mr. McMahon's good graces. Thus is why they weren't brought in.

I've heard a lot of people mentioning Sting, but the fact is they did contact and try to sign Sting. He REFUSED because at the time, he didn't like the adult type of way the show(s) were conducted and he didn't want to be apart of that. (Oh, how I wonder what he thinks of T.N.A. now)

The InVasion angle could've been extremely well over if it'd been lead by Eric Bischoff, followed by an alliance w/ Paul Heyman. (dispite both guys having actual heat against each other) The biggest main issue is, they used Booker T. to lead their InVasion, and up until 2000 he wasn't anything more than a mid-card Superstar.

Diamond Dallas Page was indeed a Main Eventer, but an older M.E. and they unofficially didn't even bring him in with the rest of the InVasion, they brought him in seperate, to do an angle with the Undertaker. Once that was over, D.D.P. pretty much faded out of the InVasion angle.

If they could've brought back Ric Flair, Scott Steiner & even so much as ONE great and solid Main Eventer, like Hulk Hogan or Goldberg, then I fully believe everything would've been so much greater.

But in the end, they brought in the guys that were never fully meant to go over and look better than W.W.F.-grown talent. Guys like Jindrak, O'Haire, Vito, The Cat, Meat, and Kanyon. Those guys were all barely above water in W.C.W., how anyone figured they'd stand a chance in the W.W.F. in a major Main Event angle is beyond me.

The worst of it though, is Buff Bagwell. Here's a guy that was majorly over as a fan favorite, and no doubt could've been great for the W.W.F.. but his personal attitude and issues cost him his job. If Bagwell would've just shut up, and shut his Mother up, then I have no doubt he'd still be a major name in the company today.

As far as running W.C.W. as a seperate show, I don't believe it was ever an option. I think each W.C.W. guy had a clause in their contract that allowed them to sit-out the rest of it, due to the buyout, and collect a paycheck for nothing. Guy's like Jarrett, Luger & likely Goldberg all easily took this option, because (especially two of those three) wouldn't of been kept anyway.. and the other is merely more greedy than he is passionate for the business.

 

[avi01]

TBH..I enjoyed the invasion angle...well sort of. This is due mainly to the fact that Austin was the alliance leader..the top heel and his feud with Angle was awesome. The was also good to have the Rock back.had a great fued with Booker and y2j. RVD had a great run in that angle. I always thought in would have been very interestig to have HHH and Benoit in the mix, especially HHH given Steph was ECW owner.

It was not the invasion we hoped for with the likes of Flair, Sting, Goldberg etc.. coming but I still enjoyed it. But in the end, it was mainly because of typical WWE feuds. The beginning of 2001 will always be gold to me. Best RR, best No Way Out and the best wrestlemania. Invasion kinda slowed the thing.

 

[Shocky]

Pretty much this is going to go down as perhaps the biggest wasted opportunity in the history of the business,a nd probably the ongoing event the effectively destroyed any momentum the WWF had at the time. The WWF in 2000 and going into 2001 was coming off their highest rated years in the history of Raw, and they wiped out their competition at the beginning of the year. Because of that, you would have thought the WWE would have simply skyrocketed with their being no limit to what they could have done.

Instead, we got a rushed angle that completely sucked from start to finish, no ifs and or buts on that situation. The WWF had no reason to deliver the InVasion angle in the summer of 2001. Hell, they owned all of the contracts of those guys, why rush into it. Most of the talent was signed onto 2 to 3 year deals, and instead of actually coming together with a great plan, the WWF did what the WWF tends to do, rush the product, and the product fail because of it.

The WWF and the McMahons in their widely known vanity honestly believed that they could package a McMahon with each company, and people would care, when in reality, the die hard WCW and ECW fans absolutely despised everything that the WWF and especially the McMahons stood for. You were dealing with a bunch of either bitter smarks in the ECW crowd, or a bunch of southern NWA thru and thru people that despised the WWF, and by associating a mcmahon with their label, simply destroyed anything that they had.

The aggravation with the WWF and the InVasion angle, is the WWF didn't want to pay money for the bigger stars, which made no sense whatsoever. In the End, the WWF brought in the entire original NWO, Ric Flair, Scott Steiner, Goldberg, Mysterio, and Eric Bischoff. This isn't without saying the guys like Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero, Malenko, the Big Show, and other guys at the time that were still considered WCW guys that jumped ship. Are you telling me that the WWF owned WCW talent, along with that list of guys that I just had wouldn't have made for compelling television, you're out of your mind.

The annoyance is the WWF went ahead and paid for that talent after the InVasion was done. Imagine the WWF bringing a guy like Lex Luger in, simply as a sign of good faith to someone maybe like Sting, the opportunities would have been endless.

It all comes down to greed. The WWF for a long time has failed to develop good, long proper storylines and feuds at this point in time. They had the attention span of a two year old. If the WWF actually had enough forsight and patience to buy guys like Goldberg and Hogan out, then the money that could have been made would have been ridiculous.

You had potential for "four" feuding factions at the time with the WWF vs. ECW vs. WCW vs. NWO storylines,a nd people would ahve simply ate it up. The WWF debuted guys like Cena, Orton, Batista, Lesnar and all of that. Could you imagine the youth movement of the WWF coming in to save the Decimated veterans and how the WWF and it's history could have been changed? Simply put, it was such a huge terrible waste.

 

[Zeitgeist]

Yes the Invasion angle was a pretty big waste, but none of us know what really happened. It's easy to say the WWE/Vince held a grudge and weren't interested in showcasing that talent that WCW really had to offer, but I'm sure other factors came into play. Many of the top WCW guys were getting burnt-out in the final years with all the backstage BS in that company. Many of them in interviews have said they were happy when they heard the final days were coming, they wanted it to be over with. So I'm sure there were a handful of guys who had no interest in continuing in WWE right away, a lot of those guys probably wanted to go home and recover.

Not everything was terrible, as someone else mentioned above they did a good job with RVD, the nWo thing was pretty interesting, etc. Sure it could have been better, and I was always a bigger fan of WCW, but I'm not going to completely blame WWE. Who knows why it didn't play out the way it should have.

 

[damensr]

I agree could have been much better. Think we could have had a nWo vrs. DX fued that i think everyone would have liked to see. The tag team division could have been great with the Outsiders, the Dudly Boys, the New Age Outlaws, Edge & Cristian the Hardys etc etc. I belive they could have kept wcw going longer made it our that the nWo destroyed wCw like it said it would then was turning to the WWE to take that down and rule all of pro wrestleing.

 

[avi01]

Think we could have had a nWo vrs. DX fued

yeah that would have been killer

 

[sting4life]

The invasion angle was due to fail from the start, simply because all of big name talent WCW had were under gaurented contracts and weren't going to settle for less money to come to the WWE. When the angle consisted of Booker T and a bunch of mid-carders it became a complete joke.

 

[klunderbunker]

If the two year aspect had actually gone through then yes the angle could have worked. I've never thought there was a need to close down WCW at all. Why couldn't Vince have owned them and put them on tv on a different night? Mix in some WWE talent and their writers to revitalize the brand. As hot as WWE was at the time there would have been a network that would have taken them. After that a lot of the contracts would have been freed up and the bigger names could have arrived for the Invasion. It would have broadened the business and given one of the biggest payoffs of all time. But alas, Vince took the quick buck and it was a waste.

 

[Tastycles]

The angle failed because of a number of reasons, but all of them boil down to the fact that it was too rushed. The big name players from WCW were all signed to Time Warner, but I don't really understand why Vince couldn't have bought their contracts off the company.

Afterall, it's not as if they were going to paying Hulk Hogan to make the tea, or Scott Steiner to do a bit of photocopying. They were dead weight to the conglomerate, and I'm sure WWE could have got them for next to nothing. All they had to do was buy out maybe 2 or 3 of these guys and it would have worked. Booker T and Rob Van Dam would have been fine in the last match, but they shouldn't have been the main guys.

They threw the WCW stars into the deep end by putting them on WWF programming almost immediately. The WCW main event on Raw or Smackdown was one of the most awkward things I've ever seen. What they should have done is given WCW Heat, which was still on TV then. Then when a few more stars came, they could have had Smackdown and start "taking over", leading to the final match up, which should have been at Wrestlemania without any shadow of a doubt.

The potential shock factors would have been huge. If they held it out longer, you could have Hogan return, and then have to decide between WWF and WCW, both of whom had turned their back on him.

Whatever, I've thought of these ideas as I type and with a bit more direction, I could come up with something better than the way the Invasion turned out. How the WWF creative team failed is beyond me, but they did.

 

[blair4107]

Was it really that rushed? I mean I remember a good amount of time passing between tuning into Nitro and seeing Vince at RAW and then Shane show up to the Buff Bagwell vs Booker T match on RAW when they were splitting RAW into half WWF and half WCW (even though it only lasted a night with Stone Cold and I believe Rock or Kurt Angle kicking Buff and Booker out of the arena). That was where things could have changed, had they done the roster split then, and gave WCW Smackdown that could have worked. The reason I feel it failed was more content than anything else.

- I thought adding ECW was terrible at the time. Sure they had the company at their disposal but it was WCWs moment and they hardly added any talent anyway most were already around. Also they hardly acted like they were part of the group anyway.

- They should have kept the sides united, didn't they learn anything from that faction, "the Union?" Sure it was good to see Stone Cold as a heel but he had no reason to jump "companies", everyone knew about his working there prior to ECW and he didn't seem to pretend he didn't like the place - it's like adding Mick Foley to the Alliance, sure he may be loyal to ECW but WCW? No shot.

- They under utilized most of the talent they did acquire. Let's make Shawn Staziak either really stupid or a crazy guy that thinks he's from his own planet. DDP needs to be a stalker then become a self help guru. Kanyon just needs to walk around spouting out "Whos betta den Kanyon?" KroniK needs to try to beat Undertaker and Kane but although they are veterans they aren't "our veterans" so they will be destroyed and not return. C'mon! They had some pretty good talent, some they just didn't bring up to tv anyway. I don't remember Mike Sanders, Kaz Hayashi, Shannon Moore, Evan Karagias, Jamie Noble, Johnny the Bull, or others joining the group, instead they floated around between OVW and HWA.

 

[Hillmania]

Keep in mind, I just started rewatching WWE as they bought out WCW... I wasn't allowed to watch it when it got too mature for my viewing, but I thought the potential WWF vs WCW story line was too good to ignore, even at the risk of a grounding.

But anyway... What I would have done is shop around almost immediately for a new network to air Nitro. As someone else said, with WWE at its peak, it is probable that anyone would have picked it up. I would have shot for Tuesday nights, with Sunday being the last resort, though offering to air it instead of Heat would have been great. Nitro was the only show they needed... Any other shows would be too much.

I would have kept as much of the staff as possible, possibly cutting some of the undercard talent from either company, simply to keep the TV producing staff and hoping that the ad revenue would eventually cover the costs.

I would have gone through with the Shane 'O Mac buyout story line, but I would, however, end the program with Shane announcing that while WCW was going to return to TV in the near future, fans should watch Raw as he was going to bring the WCW to the WWF... Lame plug, but effective. I'd end the show with some of the WCW wrestlers coming to the ring to greet Shane, so people would know it's legit.

Let's say it takes a month or 2 to get WCW on the air with another network. Let's say MTV. Shane has his match with Vince at Wrestlemania, but the big shock would be that Booker T came to his aid. People would be shocked. The following night I would have followed up with Booker cutting a promo with Shane about Vince ruling the wrestling world and how he teamed up with Shane to show everyone what the truly superior product is. The Stone Cold heel turn would have never happened and he would have just become the major supporter of the WWE, but only after having Vince beg him in the ring. Vince could get on his knees and embarrass himself, with Austin agreeing to think about it. In the following weeks, the invasion would begin, but only to a small degree. Essentially, the whole thing would be to plug the return of Nitro.

DDP and Booker would have stayed at the top of the card, essentially still as babyfaces, just looking for the right guys to prove themselves against. They would have a few matches with WWE talent, but only if they exchanged victories.

Eventually, Nitro would air, with the roster WWE picked up, and at least one big contract. Paul Heyman would then leave the WWE announce booth and ECW would join the Nitro broadcast in a new invasion story line, to keep the show interesting, while a few undercard wrestlers would jump between the companies, picking a McMahon to side with. Shane would enter a feud with Paul and have matches with RVD and Rhino. Rhino and DDP could feud, Big Show and Benoit would rejoin the WCW brand, and occasional cross promoting would be done, with a smaller invasion story line done over a broad period of time. I would absolutely buy out Goldberg's contract and begin pushing him on Nitro, with him almost immediately claiming to be sick of the same old opponents. Attempting to appease him, Shane would hire new WWF guys, who would ultimately get destroyed. He'd feud with Rhino to legitimize the Detroit man, and then have him feud with someone else for a bit. Goldberg would then remain unappeased and begin attacking people on Raw, looking for competition. WWF would call it a war and begin attacking back. It would lead to a history making segment where Goldberg and Austin clear the ring of everyone and stare one another down. Goldberg would claim a desire to wrestle Austin, but the McMahons would refuse to let them for the entire year, with the 2 of them occupying themselves with other wrestlers until Wrestlemania.

The brand lines would begin to blur, but not without a sense of pride for each team's past. The invasion would definitely be done, but not to the full extent for awhile.

With the absence of most of the older guys, the young guns would begin to take control of WCW, claiming that the legends abandoned them. Someone would then have their contract bought out to fight them, probably Flair, with a rejuvenated Horsemen team.

When the nWo contracts could be bought out, they'd make their return to WWF, claiming that they plan to take over again. The nWo would keep Hogan for awhile, until Hogan would turn face, like history said, but not until after a match with Triple H and a warring factions story line with the revived DX that decided not to let the nWo take over. The Rock and Hogan will have gained a mutual respect anyway. Hogan eventually turns face with the nWo needing a new leader; Undertaker. The Deadman led nWo would then tear apart WWE and Goldberg would job to Stone Cold after an insanely tough battle.

Wrestlemania 18, WCW has been permitted to compete:
Stone Cold vs Goldberg for the WCW title
Hogan vs The Rock for the WWF title
Undertaker vs DDP
Shane vs RVD
Hardys vs Dudleys vs some WCW team for the WCW tag team titles
APA vs Hall/Nash for the WWF tag team titles
Angle vs Edge vs Jericho vs Booker T vs Show vs whoever else...

Idk, I got too caught up in it, so you can disregard the last few paragraphs.

 

[Hillmania]

Actually, I just read that they tried to find them a new show, so I would have just given them Smackdown immediately, and not tried too hard with the Invasion. The Austin heel turn ruined it all.

 

[Richard]

Well, it's been said by a few people here that the InVasion angle was the biggest missed opportunity ever and I do agree with that, the WCW/ECW Alliance could have been a lot stronger, lets have a look at who was in the WCW/ECW Alliance (According to Wikipedia)

WCW:Arn Anderson (WCW announcer), Billy Kidman, Billy Silverman (referee), Booker T, Brian Adams (recruited by Steven Richards late in the invasion in order to be used against the Undertaker and Kane), Bryan Clark (recruited by Steven Richards late in the invasion in order to be used against the Undertaker and Kane), Buff Bagwell, released before the WCW/ECW merger), Charles Robinson (referee), Chavo Guerrero, Jr.
Chris Kanyon, Chuck Palumbo (defected to WWF in November to team with Billy Gunn after being fired by The Alliance), Diamond Dallas Page*, Hugh Morrus, Hurricane Helms (would eventually become The Hurricane during the Alliance storyline), Mark Jindrak (rarely appeared throughout the storyline), Nick Patrick (referee), Scott Hudson (WCW announcer and backstage inverviewer), Sean O'Haire, Shane McMahon (WCW Owner)**
Shannon Moore, Shawn Stasiak, Stacy Keibler, Torrie Wilson (defected to WWF after she started dating Tajiri and started a feud with Stacy Keibler.)

* = Started appearing on WWF television prior to the Invasion storyline.
** = Never appeared in WCW prior to WWF's purchase.

ECW:Bubba Ray Dudley *, D-Von Dudley *, Jazz (did not debut until the Alliance's final appearance on Survivor Series 2001), Justin Credible*, Lance Storm (began as a member of WCW, defected to ECW July 9, 2001)**, Mike Awesome (began as a member of WCW, defected to ECW July 9, 2001)**, Paul Heyman (Raw announcer, ECW General Manager)*, Rob Van Dam (debuted on Raw with Tommy Dreamer), Raven *, Rhyno *
Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley (ECW Owner) ***, Tazz (SmackDown! announcer. Defected to the WWF by turning on Paul Heyman) *, Tommy Dreamer (debuted on Raw with RVD)

* = Was working for WWF prior to the Invasion storyline
** = Was working for WCW at the time of collapse
*** = Never appeared/wrestled in ECW

Defectors:Brian Hebner (referee) *, Christian * (did not join until later in the feud, mainly to gain leverage over Edge.), Debra (the "First Lady"), Ivory (the "Mentor to the Ladies of the Alliance")*, Kurt Angle (the traitor; later revealed to be a Vince McMahon-planted mole) *, Mighty Molly (joined after betraying Spike Dudley), Steve Austin (the Leader), Steven Richards (an ECW original but did not defect to ECW until later in the Invasion, offering the services of WCW's KroniK as revenge against the Undertaker and Kane), Terri Runnels, Test * (joined the Alliance after being attacked by the APA), William Regal (kayfabe Alliance Commissioner).

Looking at the Alliance roster, it wasn't as strong as it could have been or as strong as it should have been. I mean, there were guys who had the clauses in their contract, allowing them to sit on their asses at home and watch their bank accounts fill up, guys like (And I'm just guessing here since I'm not sure of all the names) maybe Luger or Goldberg who would have been valuable assets for the WCW/ECW Alliance and their war with WWF and Vince. I also thought it was a bit silly that the WWF had to have some of their stars jump ship to the WCW/ECW alliance to give it some big star power when it would have been better if some of the bigger WCW names decided to work

Also, another problem I have is that Shane 'owned' WCW and Stephanie 'owned' ECW. Now, that's all good and well but imagine if Vince decided "You know what would be great, Eric Bischoff owning WCW and Paul Heyman owning ECW and them taking me on at Survivor Series". I think it would have made the feud more exciting and intense because in real life, Vince would have hated Eric Bischoff and it would have seemed more believable for Eric/Paul vs Vince than Steph/Shane vs Vince.

If only the wrestlers from WCW under garanteed contracts would have worked..

 

[supergav67]

Its easy to look back in perspective but Ive always said,Vince shoulda gave WCW to Smackdown,but it HaD to be seen as a takeover rather than a merger.If you remember,apart from the big WCW titles that just so happened to be won by WWF stars like Rock & Angle,the other WCW stars barely got a look in on the B shows & a few like Buff Bagwell,who personality wise woulda been a hoot on WWF left.Booker definetly got a look in,then again he was WCWs poster boy after Hogan went.
The Invasion angle was a good & obvious compromise but where,d you draw the line.Rock was a generation star only in WWF.while Y2J was in WCW,ECW but like Austin (& they DiD make something off ThiS) ,only got world titles ,with WWF,Where do they fit in here ..
Youd think the Vets/Originals angle on TNA ,again another good idea for feuds ,woulda been simpler,then you get the Dudleys,Jarret & Foley on the Frontline (which woulda included Christian too) !
Is it ironic or coincidence,most WCW/ECW names you speak of are more in TNA right now than WWE?

 

[CenaSux4Life78]

I was pumped about the entire thing. I had dreamed of it for years. Granted it didnt turn out how I thought, but oh well. Now I am thinking TNA/WWE That could be good, if done right. I know this is probably gonna get me in trouble but for some reason I cant do my own thread. For a TNA WWE ppv, how do these 4 matches sound?

1. Sting vs Randy Orton
2. Samoa Joe vs John Cena
3. A.J. Styles vs Edge
4. Beer Money vs Miz and Morrison