The Sports Bar

[J.J.]

This was the L.A. Times assessment of Howard after Game 2 of the first round of the playoffs against the Spurs. To some of the points you had against J.J. (I went back and brushed up on them), there was no Bryant to hog the ball in this game so this great player who was better than Bryant should've led L.A. Where was he?

Nobody is disputing Kobe's ability to score. Even now if Kobe didn't have two decades worth of wear on his body he could still easily muster a quiet 20 a game. I'll agree with Blunder's argument on Kobe's defense that season and that season began the regression in such a delicate asset in his game was his defense. The question in your statement in retrospect is where was Kobe's defense?

See, the regular season didn't mean shit that season in L.A. That's what you and J.J. both fail to understand. Unless, of course, they lost a lot, and they did. Why? Because D'antoni, who's system has never worked for the playoffs and who shouldn't have been the coach in the first place (somehow that's Kobe's fault right?), was not suited to coach the pieces he had and Howard wasn't a good fit in L.A. Here is my proof of that.

The regular season means everything until the playoffs, especially when it boils down to playoff seeding. They lost a lot because this team abandoned an offense they spent training camp and preseason trying to execute just to have to abandon it a handful of games into the regular season.

D'Antoni's offense for 3 months was trying to find the right pieces on a depleted roster to fit a system that regularly performed without the correct guy to facilitate the offense. Kobe moved to run the offense and Nash moved to being a spot up guy. That wasn't a role fit for him because having Kobe man the offense meant the ball was in his hands more, which translates to him shooting more. Damn if he did...A lot.

Nash's nagging injuries, Howard's slow healing process and Gasol's injuries didn't finally see them really come together until the latter part of the season.

Nobody was a good fit anywhere.

 

[A11oftheLights]

Uhhhhhh Hate to break it to ya but Kobe's 5th... You're forgetting Wilt Chamberlin and Jerry West....

Edit: But hey, sorry for the interuption. Now back to our regularly scheduled Forum debate.

Kobe is a way better Laker than Wilt, the big fella played at way too many different teams to be considered the best of a certain club. One of the all time greats of the game, no doubt, just not for an individual club

 

[SSJPhenom]

Nobody is disputing Kobe's ability to score. Even now if Kobe didn't have two decades worth of wear on his body he could still easily muster a quiet 20 a game. I'll agree with Blunder's argument on Kobe's defense that season and that season began the regression in such a delicate asset in his game was his defense. The question in your statement in retrospect is where was Kobe's defense?

I'll agree that Kobe's defense did start a rough decline this season and part of that can be attributed to D'Antoni's system, which is to run and gun and hope like hell you out score the other team. Mike's last name should be Antoni because he doesn't have a fucking clue what D is.

The question in my statement was correct, though. KlunderBunker keeps saying that the problem for this L.A. team was Kobe and not Howard. I was saying that Kobe was out for game 2 of that playoff series against the Spurs (and more games come to think about it). So with the "assumed" problem gone, why didn't Howard step up and perform those elite numbers that we've seen oh so much? Again, because Howard was not a good fit for that team and he did not perform up to his abilities.

The regular season means everything until the playoffs, especially when it boils down to playoff seeding. They lost a lot because this team abandoned an offense they spent training camp and preseason trying to execute just to have to abandon it a handful of games into the regular season.

D'Antoni's offense for 3 months was trying to find the right pieces on a depleted roster to fit a system that regularly performed without the correct guy to facilitate the offense. Kobe moved to run the offense and Nash moved to being a spot up guy. That wasn't a role fit for him because having Kobe man the offense meant the ball was in his hands more, which translates to him shooting more. Damn if he did...A lot.

Nash's nagging injuries, Howard's slow healing process and Gasol's injuries didn't finally see them really come together until the latter part of the season.

Nobody was a good fit anywhere.

I know that the regular season matters. What I meant by that statement was that that season for the Lakers was championship or bust. The season started that way and it ended that way. So the regular season didn't matter, unless of course they lost a lot, which they did.

Yes Kobe shot a lot, but you can't blame him for that. When in doubt, do what you know and for Kobe, that's score. Howard wasn't a good fit, Nash wasn't a good fit in the original Princeton offense, D'Antoni wasn't going to work with Kobe because, honestly, in D'Antoni's system, Kobe should have be relegated to little more than a spot up shooter on the fast break or open off the P&R, but Kobe wasn't going to accept that role and honestly, he shouldn't. D'Antoni's system has been proven not to work in the playoffs, so why in the world did Jim Buss sign him when he had the chance to bring Phil Jackson back? In the triangle offense, everyone would have fit in and Nash, with his shooting ability and superior passing, would have fit in better in that system than Derek Fisher. Again, though, Jim Buss's fault, not Kobe's.

That's been my point all along. Does Kobe bear some of the responsibilty for the Lakers' woes, he sure does. More than Jim Buss? Hell fucking no.

 

[J.J.]

I'm actually done reflecting on Laker nostalgia. I'm a Hornets fan.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I'm with you there. I'd much rather talk about the real team in LA, the Clippers and how they're going to shock everybody and win the championship this season.

 

[#tamale]

The Clippers are not winning the championship this season. They are not even going to get to the NBA finals.

 

[SSJPhenom]

The Clippers are not winning the championship this season. They are not even going to get to the NBA finals.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Have you seen the way they've been playing lately? It's only going to get better when Griffin gets back. Griffin will stabilize the starting lineup. Doc will keep Pierce in the starting 5 because he's been playing very well with more minutes. Also, since Griffin has been out, they've finally finally finally found a bench. They'll keep that three guard lineup on the bench which allows Rivers and Crawford to be scorers and Cole Aldrich will anchor the bench. At this point, if I was Doc Rivers, I'd try and find a really good player for Josh Smith and Lance Stephenson before the trade deadline because they haven't been playing anyway.

I'm telling you, things are looking up for my Clippers.

 

[GI Cake]

So then in your opinion there are only 30 players that can be considered as a greatest of all time in the entire history of the NBA? You're worse than I thought.

Your value of "greatest of all time" becomes instantly devalued when you expand your list to higher than anything but 1. Then again, I ground my use of phrases like "greatest of all time" in reason unlike yourself who wants to give it away to any Dick and Jane it seems.

I'm glad you think that. You're wrong, but hey, that's nothing new for you.

You keep insisting I'm wrong without actually providing evidence to that.

I did bring up something worthwhile.

Since when?

That's a little harsh don't you think?

It's harsh that I continue dealing with you guys who want to repeat the same nonsense with the only refutation being "Because I say so."

I never once argued against your stats.

Now why is that, I wonder?

Again, I never once argued with your stats because stats are only part of the story, not the whole thing.

Sure, that's a fair thing to say. Statistics only tell the story of who put up points, rebounds, blocks, steals, minutes played, etc. There isn't a statistic for "who looked sore and sluggish" but that's because that kind of stat would be worthless.

Where were the results from this great Howard that joined the Lakers?

The results were Dwight Howard offered elite level play that was bogged down by a team of old, has-been's with awful defensive play. I don't quite know how many times this needs to be repeated, and shown to you mouth breathers before it becomes apparent that perhaps Howard can't defend his guy, Nash's guy, and Kobe's guy.

The results weren't good because like it or not, Howard wasn't a good fit for L.A. and he found that out for himself.

Howard wasn't the good fit? I'm left repeating myself for maybe the 100th time but Howard played very well for a team that wanted the shift the blame on him, instead of looking at Kobe Bryant and Nash's underwhelming defensive performances.

Source: Stupid article that reeks of Phenom's confirmation bias.

Yawn, filled with nothing but presupposing and conjecture from some glorified coffee blogger in LA. I'm not the least bit surprised that the LA Times tried to write off Howard's playoff performance as the Laker's nail in the coffin despite, YET AGAIN the numbers saying otherwise.

This was the L.A. Times assessment of Howard after Game 2 of the first round of the playoffs against the Spurs. To some of the points you had against J.J. (I went back and brushed up on them), there was no Bryant to hog the ball in this game so this great player who was better than Bryant should've led L.A. Where was he?

He lead the Lakers in that playoff series in almost every single facet of the game. Howard was the team leader in PPG, Offensive Rebounds Per Game, FG%, and blocks. Without Kobe on the team in that playoff series Howard had to work with Nash (who's injured and can't play defense on his own grandmother, let alone Tony Parker.) Steve Blake (Lol Steve fucking Blake) Gasol (who bless his heart actually played like he gave a shit.) And fucking Chris Duhon.

Again, I'm just fucking left to ask why is Howard supposed to carry that entire fucking team of throwaways and has-beens? The only players who showed up were Howard, Gasol, and Steve Blake. But all of a sudden Howard is responsible for the fact the Lakers built an old ass team with no defensive ability save for Howard?

See, the regular season didn't mean shit that season in L.A. That's what you and J.J. both fail to understand. Unless, of course, they lost a lot, and they did. Why?

Ooo wait, are you going to use the Laker's poor defensive numbers and show that perhaps Kobe Bryant and Nash played shit basketball?

Because D'antoni, who's system has never worked for the playoffs and who shouldn't have been the coach in the first place

Oh right, blame the coach. Not the 36 year old shooting guard who had the ankle durability of a paper that dried up after having water spill onto it.

(somehow that's Kobe's fault right?),

I can't reasonably say that Kobe was behind the Mike Brown firing that lead to the Lakers having to shove D'Antoni as the coach but it was really evident that Kobe greatly disliked Mike Brown as a head coach. And coincidentally, Kobe Bryant also has a lot of sway with Lakers management. So much so, they're willing to openly tank an entire NBA season just to make everyone in the NBA gives Kobe a reach around before he retires.

was not suited to coach the pieces he had and Howard wasn't a good fit in L.A.

With the pieces D'Antoni had, they ran a high scoring offense that was marred by a lack of depth and an oft-injured, old starting lineup that defensively played like shit. If you can think of the X's and O's that can mask how poorly Kobe and Nash are defensively you should be coaching instead of making an ass out of yourself on the internet.

Here is my proof of that.

That wasn't proof, that was just another mindless assertion you parroted from some sports writer.

Source: http://nba.nbcsports.com/2013/07/11...rs-in-part-because-kobe-would-not-pass-torch/

Not a surprise Kobe Bryant wanted to go down with the ship instead helping the Lakers stay competitive. That's evident with how awful the Lakers played the following season when Howard was ran out of the team.

This is NBC's assessment of Dwight Howard in L.A. As I said, Kobe was part of the problem, but there was a lot more to it than that. But hey, stats right?

So you use more confirmation bias to suggest that backs up an argument? Again, yawn.

I can find ESPN videos of the analysts saying the same thing or NBA TV videos or TNT Inside the NBA videos of Shaq, Kenny, and Chuck saying the same things. But they're all wrong right, because stats?

Yes, Shaq, Kenny, and Chuck can be wrong. For fuck sake, Shaq and Barkley are two of the dumbest fucking people in the world. There is no bigger doofus dressed as an "NBA analyst" than big Diesel. Out of all the Basketball authority you could have fallaciously appeal to, you want to go with Shaq and Barkley who have the combined IQ of a ribeye steak? But that's besides the point, because it's evident Shaq has no fucking clue about what he talks about most of the time he's on TNT. And the same could be said for Chuck. It's evident they were brought on because they're both this gigantic, man-children people will tune in to watch eat cookies off their face or tackle Christmas trees rather than their basketball knowledge.

As I said, Jim Buss was and still is the problem of the Lakers.

Jim Buss did fuck up by doing everything in his power to be Kobe's biggest enabler while doing nothing to improve the team.

Ouch, that hurt my feelings. I'm gonna tell. I mean that's what we're reduced to when you debate like a child. Point, quip, point, insult, point. Oh, I forgot where we were at. I'm sorry to expect more.

Honestly I don't have much else I could say when you, and the other "Dim 3" provide nothing but personal sentiments on Howard's season as a Laker instead of actual numbers, facts, or anything substantial.

Oh right, this is where I need to add a quip. Uhm -- You eat poo poo. Fuck it, I'll just wait till you say something stupid again.

Congrats, yours stats were right, but your assessment of their results, which is what matters, was not.

So when I take a stat like Defensive Rating (a stat J.J the lug-nut used) that measures defensive play throughout the season and show that Howard was the 6th best Defensive Center that season, and far away the best defender on the Lakers, that is a inaccurate assessment of that stat?

Do you just pull whatever is out of your ass and use it for conversation or do you have the decency to use whatever you wipe afterwards?

Maybe you're right. Maybe Kobe should've been gone long ago, but still it was Jim Buss's decision to keep him around.

Much to the dismay of Kobe, I'm sure. There's nothing wrong with Bryant cashing in, tanking the team, and sabotaging the Lakers from the inside out all for the sake of his brand. But only if he just cut the bullshit that he goes out every night to win basketball games. Because it's clear that he doesn't anymore.

I have to ask, you don't seriously believe that the Lakers had a chance at Aldridge do you because if you really do, you're hopeless.

Motherfucker I gave you the fucking tweets that had Aldridge say he was 50-50 on signing with the Lakers. LITERALLY THAT IS A 50% CHANCE God damn are you a fucking waterhead.

Source: http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/7/1/8880343/lamarcus-aldridge-los-angeles-lakers-nba-free-agency

While this report does say that Aldridge didn't gel with Kobe, it also says that the Lakers organization (Jim Buss) didn't focus enough on basketball.

If you were in Jimbo's position, how could you pitch the god awful Lakers basketball team to one of the biggest free agent stars? "Hey join the Lakers, and if you fall even a point short of greatness Kobe will rip your fucking head off and leave you to bleed out. Oh yeah, everyone else on the team sucks."

The Lakers are a hot mess, and management can and should be held accountable of it. But it shouldn't be a secret at this point that Kobe could walk into the office and fuck Jim Buss' girlfriend right on his desk and Jim would respond by going for a high five.

It also says that Aldridge was always leaning towards joining the Spurs the whole time. I believe this is the same article you quoted to me once before. Convenient for you to leave out the rest.

Too bad I never linked you to any article from Sbnation you mongoloid.

Maybe that's true, but that was because the Lakers couldn't win with their supposed "best player".

The Lakers haven't been able to win over any big name talent to the team for years now. Namely after seeing the 2012-13 season and how quickly the team, management, and fanbase would turn on the arriving free agent instead of the more glaring weaknesses on the basketball team if they fell short in any way possible on the court.

You have to understand that Lakers fans are used to winning championships and that season, with the signings of Nash and Howard, was going to be championship or bust.

The Lakers' fanbase have shown to be spoiled, petulant children who wanted the god damn NBA to revolve around the Lakers and only the Lakers. I should know, I'm a Chicago Bulls fan. We're just like Laker fans except our team has been nowhere near as successful.

You're right, I apologize.

Apology accepted my good chum.

But your hate of Kobe is blind.

You haven't been able to prove I have an unjust hatred of Kobe Bryant. Jesus on a cracker, at this point talking to you, J.J, and Khalifa is like running my head against a brick wall lined with Kobe Bryant fatheads and seamen.

I've already shown above how Howard was a bad fit

No you fucking didn't. All you did was quote two articles and said Shaq and Chuck didn't like Howard as a Laker. A fucking parrot could have served up a better argument.

and that Kobe isn't to blame for all of the Lakers' problems, but again, it's all Kobe, right?

Can we blame Kobe for his shit defense? His shooting percentage? His constant need to throw everyone else under the bus? Can anyone ever offer an honest criticism about Kobe Bryant without the world falling around their shoulders? Apparently fucking not, because despite overwhelming mountains of evidence it just can't ever cross your mind that maybe the shooting guard with a FG% barely hovering around 40% and constantly getting beat defensively harmed the Lakers more than their Center who finished the year as the rebound leader and one of the best FG% in the league.

Jordan doesn't really belong on this list because when he played for the Wizards, he didn't make an impact. Sure he was still an above average player, but he wasn't His Airness anymore.

Eh, still a player that went on to play for a different team instead of staying forever trapped playing for Chicago.

See, what Lebron did when he went to Miami was create problems for the rest of the league.

The "problem" of course being working with other NBA players to win a championship. The bastard!

When he went to Miami to join two other All-Stars, he made it necessary for other teams to compete with them to become "Super Teams".

"Super teams" have existed long before LeBron was ever a part of one. Jordan and Phil Jackson worked to get their own super team to get Pippen and Rodman. The Lakers made a "super team" with Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and Ray Allen. Fuck even before them, the Lakers had a Big 3 of Bird, McHale, and Parish. Great players who want to win championships are always going to find their way to get on the same team.

So now, teams are going out of their ways to sign multiple all-stars and their bidding their futures to win championships immediately instead of building up to it.

Again, what a travesty that teams that want to win championships go out of their way to win championships. Do you want every team to be like the 76'ers who have been in "rebuilding mode" for the past 15 years?

That's what the Nets did and now they're fucked. That's what the Knicks did and now they're rebuilding. That's what the Spurs have done this season and that's what Cleveland has done.

So what? Management in the NBA has one job and that's to get the best team out there on the floor. Something the Lakers should have remembered instead of making sure that everyone in the LA area licks their palm before giving Kobe his contractually obligated handy.

Also, when Lebron made that move, he made it impossible for small market teams to compete.

Like Toronto, Indiana, Atlanta, Oklahoma City, or Memphis? Oh wait no, those are constantly good teams that manage to compete in the playoffs without being able to buy a team. Unlike Philly, New York, or the LA Lakers who are big market teams that can't compete worth a shit anyway. This speaks more to which companies can produce a better basketball team, and which cannot.

So the Bucks, Timberwolves, and Hornets of the world don't have a chance in hell of competing for a championship.

Well that should speak more on the Bucks, Wolves, and Hornets then huh? It's not LeBron's fault they're not an attractive team to play for.

He made it so the same teams year in and year out are expected to win.

LeBron worked with Wade and Bosh to make sure THE HEAT were going to the finals every season. And they did just that. I don't see what is so diabolical or sinister about that.

Also, he made it the norm to for players to except less money to do this which the players association have repeatedly been against.

I'm not terribly surprised that a union is upset with the concept of people who throw orange balls around for a living accepting less play to have a chance to win the championship of throwing orange balls.

Like it or not, Lebron created a lot of issues for the league when he went to Miami.

Like it or not, history has shown that LeBron wasn't the first, or the last to establish a "big 3" or a super team to increase his chances of winning.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, however, it's a sad day when one of the greatest players in NBA history can't get your respect.

I reserve my respect for people who fucking earn it. I respect firefighters who run into burning buildings to save people. I respect soldiers that hand out food to refugees. I respect teachers that had to clean up after all the drool you spilled from class to class. I can acknowledge what Bryant did as a player was exceptional. I can give him props for the type of player he used to be but I don't respect him for dedicating his life to mastering the craft of shooting a basketball.

You don't have to like Kobe.

Oh fucking really? Because it seems like if you're in the media, or even on a internet message board you write anything critical of Kobe you get a swarm of mouth breathers jumping down your throat as if you wore a name tag that read "Lisa Ann."

I'm not sure I like Kobe, but I do respect what he's accomplished.

Congratulations. You respected an egotistical douchebag who dribbled a ball for a living.

BTW, I love his old school persona and that's one thing I'm definitely going to miss when he retires from the NBA.

If there is anything I know about Kobe, it will be that even after he retires he'll still end up being prominently on display in the NBA world.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

Remind me never to debate basketball with pancake.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Your value of "greatest of all time" becomes instantly devalued when you expand your list to higher than anything but 1. Then again, I ground my use of phrases like "greatest of all time" in reason unlike yourself who wants to give it away to any Dick and Jane it seems.





You keep insisting I'm wrong without actually providing evidence to that.





Since when?



It's harsh that I continue dealing with you guys who want to repeat the same nonsense with the only refutation being "Because I say so."




Now why is that, I wonder?




Sure, that's a fair thing to say. Statistics only tell the story of who put up points, rebounds, blocks, steals, minutes played, etc. There isn't a statistic for "who looked sore and sluggish" but that's because that kind of stat would be worthless.




The results were Dwight Howard offered elite level play that was bogged down by a team of old, has-been's with awful defensive play. I don't quite know how many times this needs to be repeated, and shown to you mouth breathers before it becomes apparent that perhaps Howard can't defend his guy, Nash's guy, and Kobe's guy.



Howard wasn't the good fit? I'm left repeating myself for maybe the 100th time but Howard played very well for a team that wanted the shift the blame on him, instead of looking at Kobe Bryant and Nash's underwhelming defensive performances.





Yawn, filled with nothing but presupposing and conjecture from some glorified coffee blogger in LA. I'm not the least bit surprised that the LA Times tried to write off Howard's playoff performance as the Laker's nail in the coffin despite, YET AGAIN the numbers saying otherwise.



He lead the Lakers in that playoff series in almost every single facet of the game. Howard was the team leader in PPG, Offensive Rebounds Per Game, FG%, and blocks. Without Kobe on the team in that playoff series Howard had to work with Nash (who's injured and can't play defense on his own grandmother, let alone Tony Parker.) Steve Blake (Lol Steve fucking Blake) Gasol (who bless his heart actually played like he gave a shit.) And fucking Chris Duhon.

Again, I'm just fucking left to ask why is Howard supposed to carry that entire fucking team of throwaways and has-beens? The only players who showed up were Howard, Gasol, and Steve Blake. But all of a sudden Howard is responsible for the fact the Lakers built an old ass team with no defensive ability save for Howard?



Ooo wait, are you going to use the Laker's poor defensive numbers and show that perhaps Kobe Bryant and Nash played shit basketball?




Oh right, blame the coach. Not the 36 year old shooting guard who had the ankle durability of a paper that dried up after having water spill onto it.




I can't reasonably say that Kobe was behind the Mike Brown firing that lead to the Lakers having to shove D'Antoni as the coach but it was really evident that Kobe greatly disliked Mike Brown as a head coach. And coincidentally, Kobe Bryant also has a lot of sway with Lakers management. So much so, they're willing to openly tank an entire NBA season just to make everyone in the NBA gives Kobe a reach around before he retires.



With the pieces D'Antoni had, they ran a high scoring offense that was marred by a lack of depth and an oft-injured, old starting lineup that defensively played like shit. If you can think of the X's and O's that can mask how poorly Kobe and Nash are defensively you should be coaching instead of making an ass out of yourself on the internet.



That wasn't proof, that was just another mindless assertion you parroted from some sports writer.





Not a surprise Kobe Bryant wanted to go down with the ship instead helping the Lakers stay competitive. That's evident with how awful the Lakers played the following season when Howard was ran out of the team.



So you use more confirmation bias to suggest that backs up an argument? Again, yawn.



Yes, Shaq, Kenny, and Chuck can be wrong. For fuck sake, Shaq and Barkley are two of the dumbest fucking people in the world. There is no bigger doofus dressed as an "NBA analyst" than big Diesel. Out of all the Basketball authority you could have fallaciously appeal to, you want to go with Shaq and Barkley who have the combined IQ of a ribeye steak? But that's besides the point, because it's evident Shaq has no fucking clue about what he talks about most of the time he's on TNT. And the same could be said for Chuck. It's evident they were brought on because they're both this gigantic, man-children people will tune in to watch eat cookies off their face or tackle Christmas trees rather than their basketball knowledge.



Jim Buss did fuck up by doing everything in his power to be Kobe's biggest enabler while doing nothing to improve the team.



Honestly I don't have much else I could say when you, and the other "Dim 3" provide nothing but personal sentiments on Howard's season as a Laker instead of actual numbers, facts, or anything substantial.

Oh right, this is where I need to add a quip. Uhm -- You eat poo poo. Fuck it, I'll just wait till you say something stupid again.



So when I take a stat like Defensive Rating (a stat J.J the lug-nut used) that measures defensive play throughout the season and show that Howard was the 6th best Defensive Center that season, and far away the best defender on the Lakers, that is a inaccurate assessment of that stat?

Do you just pull whatever is out of your ass and use it for conversation or do you have the decency to use whatever you wipe afterwards?



Much to the dismay of Kobe, I'm sure. There's nothing wrong with Bryant cashing in, tanking the team, and sabotaging the Lakers from the inside out all for the sake of his brand. But only if he just cut the bullshit that he goes out every night to win basketball games. Because it's clear that he doesn't anymore.



Motherfucker I gave you the fucking tweets that had Aldridge say he was 50-50 on signing with the Lakers. LITERALLY THAT IS A 50% CHANCE God damn are you a fucking waterhead.



If you were in Jimbo's position, how could you pitch the god awful Lakers basketball team to one of the biggest free agent stars? "Hey join the Lakers, and if you fall even a point short of greatness Kobe will rip your fucking head off and leave you to bleed out. Oh yeah, everyone else on the team sucks."

The Lakers are a hot mess, and management can and should be held accountable of it. But it shouldn't be a secret at this point that Kobe could walk into the office and fuck Jim Buss' girlfriend right on his desk and Jim would respond by going for a high five.



Too bad I never linked you to any article from Sbnation you mongoloid.



The Lakers haven't been able to win over any big name talent to the team for years now. Namely after seeing the 2012-13 season and how quickly the team, management, and fanbase would turn on the arriving free agent instead of the more glaring weaknesses on the basketball team if they fell short in any way possible on the court.



The Lakers' fanbase have shown to be spoiled, petulant children who wanted the god damn NBA to revolve around the Lakers and only the Lakers. I should know, I'm a Chicago Bulls fan. We're just like Laker fans except our team has been nowhere near as successful.





Apology accepted my good chum.




You haven't been able to prove I have an unjust hatred of Kobe Bryant. Jesus on a cracker, at this point talking to you, J.J, and Khalifa is like running my head against a brick wall lined with Kobe Bryant fatheads and seamen.




No you fucking didn't. All you did was quote two articles and said Shaq and Chuck didn't like Howard as a Laker. A fucking parrot could have served up a better argument.




Can we blame Kobe for his shit defense? His shooting percentage? His constant need to throw everyone else under the bus? Can anyone ever offer an honest criticism about Kobe Bryant without the world falling around their shoulders? Apparently fucking not, because despite overwhelming mountains of evidence it just can't ever cross your mind that maybe the shooting guard with a FG% barely hovering around 40% and constantly getting beat defensively harmed the Lakers more than their Center who finished the year as the rebound leader and one of the best FG% in the league.



Eh, still a player that went on to play for a different team instead of staying forever trapped playing for Chicago.



The "problem" of course being working with other NBA players to win a championship. The bastard!



"Super teams" have existed long before LeBron was ever a part of one. Jordan and Phil Jackson worked to get their own super team to get Pippen and Rodman. The Lakers made a "super team" with Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and Ray Allen. Fuck even before them, the Lakers had a Big 3 of Bird, McHale, and Parish. Great players who want to win championships are always going to find their way to get on the same team.



Again, what a travesty that teams that want to win championships go out of their way to win championships. Do you want every team to be like the 76'ers who have been in "rebuilding mode" for the past 15 years?



So what? Management in the NBA has one job and that's to get the best team out there on the floor. Something the Lakers should have remembered instead of making sure that everyone in the LA area licks their palm before giving Kobe his contractually obligated handy.



Like Toronto, Indiana, Atlanta, Oklahoma City, or Memphis? Oh wait no, those are constantly good teams that manage to compete in the playoffs without being able to buy a team. Unlike Philly, New York, or the LA Lakers who are big market teams that can't compete worth a shit anyway. This speaks more to which companies can produce a better basketball team, and which cannot.



Well that should speak more on the Bucks, Wolves, and Hornets then huh? It's not LeBron's fault they're not an attractive team to play for.



LeBron worked with Wade and Bosh to make sure THE HEAT were going to the finals every season. And they did just that. I don't see what is so diabolical or sinister about that.



I'm not terribly surprised that a union is upset with the concept of people who throw orange balls around for a living accepting less play to have a chance to win the championship of throwing orange balls.



Like it or not, history has shown that LeBron wasn't the first, or the last to establish a "big 3" or a super team to increase his chances of winning.



I reserve my respect for people who fucking earn it. I respect firefighters who run into burning buildings to save people. I respect soldiers that hand out food to refugees. I respect teachers that had to clean up after all the drool you spilled from class to class. I can acknowledge what Bryant did as a player was exceptional. I can give him props for the type of player he used to be but I don't respect him for dedicating his life to mastering the craft of shooting a basketball.



Oh fucking really? Because it seems like if you're in the media, or even on a internet message board you write anything critical of Kobe you get a swarm of mouth breathers jumping down your throat as if you wore a name tag that read "Lisa Ann."



Congratulations. You respected an egotistical douchebag who dribbled a ball for a living.



If there is anything I know about Kobe, it will be that even after he retires he'll still end up being prominently on display in the NBA world.

I'm done with this Lakers shit. You think Kobe fucked the team. I think Jim Buss fucked the team. You say Dwight Howard was a good fit for that team while I and most everybody else that watched that season think otherwise.

I'll give you that Kobes's defense fell off that year. I'm not going to let you say anything about Nash's defense because the man never played any. So saying he was a defensive liability is like saying Kobe jacks up shots. Anyways, did you ever stop to think that maybe their defense was horrible and fell off because of who their coach was and the system in which they played?

Also in case you missed it or didn't catch it, my Shaq, Kenny, and Chuck statement was sarcasm. Hence why I led with ESPN analyst and others, but they're all wrong about the Lakers that season, right?

That's it, last point........Jim Buss is a shit GM.

 

[#tamale]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Have you seen the way they've been playing lately?

The same way they have always played the past 4 regular seasons? They are a good regular season team. What's different? They still have no bench, the most overrated point guard in the history of the game, no wing play, and an overpaid center who can't play in the clutch. Griffin is great, but he also fades in the 4th quarter.

How are the going to get past the Warriors, Spurs, or Thunder? You know they are going to have face 2 of those 3 teams in the playoffs. Will they even get past the Mavs if they have to face them in the 1st round?

 

[SSJPhenom]

The same way they have always played the past 4 regular seasons? They are a good regular season team. What's different? They still have no bench, the most overrated point guard in the history of the game, no wing play, and an overpaid center who can't play in the clutch. Griffin is great, but he also fades in the 4th quarter.

How are the going to get past the Warriors, Spurs, or Thunder? You know they are going to have face 2 of those 3 teams in the playoffs. Will they even get past the Mavs if they have to face them in the 1st round?

My last post already answered the first part of your post. Why'd you cut it out? I've already explained how they're different nd how they do in fact have great bench production now. No wing play? I guess you did miss my last post. I already explained how Pierce is providing that with more minutes. Most overrated point guard in history? I literally need you tell me how he is overrated.

How are they going to get past the Spurs? Same way they did last season I imagine. The Mavs are a joke, OKC can never hold it together for a season, and with their improved bench production they can beat Golden State. They've almost beat Golden State twice this season and if it wasn't for hacking, they would've beat the Spurs. They won't be able to hack anymore though, Doc will just put Cole Aldrich in.

You'll see.

 

[Coco]

Your value of "greatest of all time" becomes instantly devalued when you expand your list to higher than anything but 1.

Marry me.

 

[#tamale]

My last post already answered the first part of your post. Why'd you cut it out?

Because all it states is when we get Griffin back, you'll see.

"JUST YOU WAIT!"

How original.

I've already explained how they're different nd how they do in fact have great bench production now.

No wing play? I guess you did miss my last post. I already explained how Pierce is providing that with more minutes.

You saying the bench production is great now doesn't make it true. Let me throw this stat at you. Spurs bench has a 15.8 net rating. Best in the NBA. The Clippers bench has a -3.2 rating, 23rd in the NBA.

Minutes does no equal production. And lol at Paul Pierce with his PER of under 9? Are you serious with that? Lol!

Most overrated point guard in history? I literally need you tell me how he is overrated.

We can start with his inability to ever get past the 2nd round of the NBA playoffs. Overrated does not equal bad. It's just he as not as great as he as hyped up to be.

How are they going to get past the Spurs? Same way they did last season I imagine.

Ummm.....last years Spurs and this years Spurs are much different. Last year you played a one legged Duncan, an out of shape Parker, a less then 100% Kawhi, and they still took you to 7 games.

This year, healthy MVP candidate Kawhi, rejuvenated Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan, addition of Aldridge, and the best bench in the NBA.

And they also have the 6th best offense, number 1 overall defense, and best point differential in the league. Is that the same team as last year? I hope the Clippers think so.

The Mavs are a joke

And are only about 3 games behind the Clippers.

OKC can never hold it together for a season

And yet they have made it farther then the Clippers. Imagine that?

They've almost beat Golden State twice this season and if it wasn't for hacking, they would've beat the Spurs. They won't be able to hack anymore though, Doc will just put Cole Aldrich in.

You'll see.

 

[SSJPhenom]

You can't quote me on specifically mentioning this current period of play since Griffin has been out and then throw seasonal statistics in my face.

I concede that the Clippers bench have been garbage for the first part of the season before Doc added Aldrich and Prigioni to the mix and benched Smith and Stephenson. I concede that Pierce has been garbage for the first part of the season before he got more playing time. Since those changes, though, I'm pretty sure that bench production and Pierce's production have risen significantly. Which was the whole point of me saying, "Have you seen they way they've been playing lately".

BTW, the Mavs are 4 games back from the Clippers and the Clippers are 2.5 back from OKC.

Why don't you tell me what their numbers have been over, say the last 15-20 games?

 

[Hyorinmaru]

Phenom is making me chuckle

 

[J.J.]

Clippers have useless pieces on their roster who slap boxes on the bench, in Lance Stephenson and Josh Smith.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Clippers have useless pieces on their roster who slap boxes on the bench, in Lance Stephenson and Josh Smith.

That's why I said Doc should look to trade them. They barely play anyway. Did you overlook my saying that?

 

[Hyorinmaru]

So who we rooting for in the NFC/AFC title games this weekend?

I'm hoping for a Cardinals/Broncos Superbowl personally.

 

[J.J.]

Carolina/New England.

Carolina got to Russell Wilson a lot in that last game, Palmer isn't as mobile as Wilson and if Carolina brings the pressure like they did against Seattle it'll be quite ugly. I don't see Ted Ginn or Philly Brown being effective in this game either. Carolina will have to rely on Mike Tolbert, Cam's legs, Jonathan Stewart and target Greg Olsen when they can. Palmer has to target in Cortland Finnegan's direction because he's weakest one in the secondary.

Manning's receivers had butterfingers and if they weren't dropping passes, Manning was missing targets and appeared out of synch with the offense. Brady is deadly in the playoffs when he gets this close to the superbowl and I can't see Gronk or Edelman being stopped. But even saying that I believe this will be a low scoring game.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

Brady's a cheat.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Brady's a cheat.

I feel like you're just baiting habs.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

I feel like you're just baiting habs.

I didn't even know he's a New England fan.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Sorry people, its going to be Panthers/Broncos in the Superbowl. I've already posted my bets at the casino.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

Yeah...no