The Sports Bar

[TheOneBigWill]

Quarterback may not be a position of strength for the Raiders but when your tight end Zach Miller is your leading receiver that is a little alarming.

I can agree with most of what you said throughout, except for this.

Just because your TE is your leading receiver is not a bad thing. Dallas Clark is (normally) the 2nd leading receiver (sometimes first, depending on what point in the season you're looking at) for the Colts. Does that mean Reggie Wayne, Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon are shit? Absolutely not. It means you have a great weapon at the TE position and that specific position can tend to find openings easier than at WR.

Zach Miller is such an underrated TE it isn't even funny. The guy hasn't broken a 1,000 yd season yet - but playing in Oakland, can you blame him?

Another thing is, perhaps the problem isn't completely at QB so much as with the O-Line? TE's and HB's are typically check down guys. Look at the top two guys who have the most receptions this season for Oakland; Miller and McFadden.

The same two were 1 and 2, respectively, in 2008 as well. (Miller had 56 catches - McFadden was 2nd with 29)

Infact, I just checked out Miller's numbers compaired to any other Oakland WR/HB since he's been in the league..

2007: tied for 2nd in rec. (44) & 3rd in yards (444) - rookie yr
2008: Miller lead in rec. (56) & yards (778)
2009: Miller lead in rec. (66) & yards (805)
2010: Miller leads in rec. (46) & yards (588)

So, while it can truly be said the WR core may not be of the same caliber of a Reggie Wayne - having your TE as your go-to guy, when he can produce and is very good (Pro Bowl good) is not exactly a bad thing.

There aren't many qb's in the league who can play great with a receiving corps of Louis Murphy, Darius Heyward-Bay, Jacoby Ford, Marcel Reece, and Johhnie Lee Higgins. Drafting a rookie and throwing him out there with those receivers is not a good idea.

Just ask JaMarcus Russell.

Still though, that isn't the worst WR core in the league. Murphy is underrated and improving yearly. Heyward-Bay isn't the top 10 they'd hoped he would be, but he isn't terrible. The rest of the group don't need to make up being starters - they're 3rd string and below. And Higgins is a damn fine return man. He can break one for 6 any time he touches the ball. (Arguably it can be said anyone could do that though, soooo)

Still the point I'm making here is - their WR core doesn't have a true #1 which hurts them. However they don't have the worst core group as a whole, in the league. Before Mark Clayton (who wasn't exactly a #1 to begin with, mind you) - St. Louis didn't really have a true #1. They had a bunch of 1-2 yr Pro's they were hoping would turn themselves into starters. (Amendola & Avery) -- And do I even need to throw in Carolina's WR core? (besides Steve Smith, it's nothing but rookies and special teamers)

So in the end - Jason Campbell is better than Gradkowski, but he shouldn't remain their starter next year if they can get someone better in FA - or even a top named QB in the draft. (Luck, Newton-possibly, although he has Russelx2 written all over him if he ends up in Oakland)

 

[Moon Knight]

I can agree with most of what you said throughout, except for this.

Just because your TE is your leading receiver is not a bad thing. Dallas Clark is (normally) the 2nd leading receiver (sometimes first, depending on what point in the season you're looking at) for the Colts. Does that mean Reggie Wayne, Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon are shit? Absolutely not. It means you have a great weapon at the TE position and that specific position can tend to find openings easier than at WR.

Zach Miller is such an underrated TE it isn't even funny. The guy hasn't broken a 1,000 yd season yet - but playing in Oakland, can you blame him?

It isnt a bad thing, he is a good TE with a lot of talent. But what is wrong with playing in Oakland? We have a good defense mostly against the pass and a great running game, the QB position is what is lacking.

Another thing is, perhaps the problem isn't completely at QB so much as with the O-Line? TE's and HB's are typically check down guys. Look at the top two guys who have the most receptions this season for Oakland; Miller and McFadden.

Whats wrong with the OLine? Top 5 running game, McFadden seems to be doing ok as our game is #2 this year. The Steelers OLine has given up more sacks and QB hits yet they have done way better. The difference is the QB, Big Ben is great, Bruce and Jason suck. Hell, even the Eagles have given up more sacks. So unless I am reading it wrong, it doesnt look like the oline is too big of a problem right now. Could be better, but not critical.

Still though, that isn't the worst WR core in the league. Murphy is underrated and improving yearly. Heyward-Bay isn't the top 10 they'd hoped he would be, but he isn't terrible. The rest of the group don't need to make up being starters - they're 3rd string and below. And Higgins is a damn fine return man. He can break one for 6 any time he touches the ball. (Arguably it can be said anyone could do that though, soooo)

Not the worst, could be better but passible. You dont need a true #1, just ask Brady. We could use a better WR, but with the QB situation it wouldnt make much of a difference.

Still the point I'm making here is - their WR core doesn't have a true #1 which hurts them. However they don't have the worst core group as a whole, in the league. Before Mark Clayton (who wasn't exactly a #1 to begin with, mind you) - St. Louis didn't really have a true #1. They had a bunch of 1-2 yr Pro's they were hoping would turn themselves into starters. (Amendola & Avery) -- And do I even need to throw in Carolina's WR core? (besides Steve Smith, it's nothing but rookies and special teamers)

A Good QB can make up for an average WR core. A Brady is asking too much, but anything that would be an upgrade.

So in the end - Jason Campbell is better than Gradkowski, but he shouldn't remain their starter next year if they can get someone better in FA - or even a top named QB in the draft. (Luck, Newton-possibly, although he has Russelx2 written all over him if he ends up in Oakland)

I dont want a rookie starting outright, but a vetern in FA so a rookie can hold the clipboard for a year like Rodgers did in Green Bay. They wont suffer in Oakland, look at our divison record and how we beat SD twice. We need a QB that can push the ball downfield on a regular basis, something Campbell and Gradkowski cant seem to do as Campbell is inconsistent, look at his up and down numbers. Right now I am hope McFadden isnt a one year thing.

 

[I Suck Ass]

Today is going to be a great day of basketball.

 

[Big Sexy]

I can agree with most of what you said throughout, except for this.

Just because your TE is your leading receiver is not a bad thing. Dallas Clark is (normally) the 2nd leading receiver (sometimes first, depending on what point in the season you're looking at) for the Colts. Does that mean Reggie Wayne, Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon are shit? Absolutely not. It means you have a great weapon at the TE position and that specific position can tend to find openings easier than at WR.

Let me rephrase my statement. When your te is your leading receiver AND he is going to finish the season with less then 700 yards receiving, then that is alarming. Zach Miller is a very good te but the Raiders receivers suck.

Still though, that isn't the worst WR core in the league. Murphy is underrated and improving yearly. Heyward-Bay isn't the top 10 they'd hoped he would be, but he isn't terrible. The rest of the group don't need to make up being starters - they're 3rd string and below. And Higgins is a damn fine return man. He can break one for 6 any time he touches the ball. (Arguably it can be said anyone could do that though, soooo)

The Carolina Panthers save Steve Smith, the Cleveland Browns, and the Rams with Clayton out are the only teams who may be worse and even then the Raiders receivers are close to on par with their shittiness. Murphy is a number two at best and the rest are all slot guys or worse.

So in the end - Jason Campbell is better than Gradkowski, but he shouldn't remain their starter next year if they can get someone better in FA - or even a top named QB in the draft. (Luck, Newton-possibly, although he has Russelx2 written all over him if he ends up in Oakland)

The Raiders aren't going to be able to get Luck and don't have the resources to trade up to get him. As far as free agents go, the only quarterbacks who may be better are Palmer and McNabb and I highly doubt either one would go to Oakland with the amount of teams that need qb's. The Vikings, Niners, Seahawks, Cardinals, and Titans are all more attractive destinations in terms of being able to win and having better weapons at receiver. Campbell is a very solid qb and underrated in my opinion.

 

[CH David]

I just read that Antoine Winfield was fined $7,500 for hitting Cutler on the chin on Monday night, but was also fined $10,000 for wearing his socks too high.

Does anyone else think it is weird that a player is fined more for a uniform violation than for hitting Cutler on the chin?

 

[Big Sexy]

I just read that Antoine Winfield was fined $7,500 for hitting Cutler on the chin on Monday night, but was also fined $10,000 for wearing his socks too high.

Does anyone else think it is weird that a player is fined more for a uniform violation than for hitting Cutler on the chin?

He didn't even hit Cutler on the chin. He was coming in to hit him, was able to hold up and his helmet ended up touching Cutler's chin. I don't even see why he was fined for that at all. The ref was right there when it happened and didn't throw a flag so he obviously thought it was nothing.

 

[CH David]

He didn't even hit Cutler on the chin. He was coming in to hit him, was able to hold up and his hand ended up touching Cutler's chin. I don't even see why he was fined for that at all. The ref was right there when it happened and didn't throw a flag so he obviously thought it was nothing.

Go to 2:16 of the video.

[YOUTUBE]gd7XY1F1JSA[/YOUTUBE]

That is a hand touching his chin? I guess he has an extra hand growing from his helmet then, because his arms were nowhere near Cutler's head.

 

[justinsayne]

I just read that Antoine Winfield was fined $7,500 for hitting Cutler on the chin on Monday night, but was also fined $10,000 for wearing his socks too high.

Does anyone else think it is weird that a player is fined more for a uniform violation than for hitting Cutler on the chin?

It is pretty ridiculous that you can be fined for wearing your sock too high, especially considering the weather conditions of that game

 

[CH David]

It is pretty ridiculous that you can be fined for wearing your sock too high, especially considering the weather conditions of that game

Exactly!

 

[Big Sexy]

Not the worst, could be better but passible. You dont need a true #1, just ask Brady. We could use a better WR, but with the QB situation it wouldnt make much of a difference.

No, it really isn't passable. Wes Welker is a shit ton better then any receiver the Raiders have and Deion Branch is better then all of them as well. The Raiders have no true number one and really don't even have a true number two. Louis Murphy is close but I'm not so sure he's even there yet. They are a team of 3rd to 5th receivers.

A Good QB can make up for an average WR core. A Brady is asking too much, but anything that would be an upgrade.

The receivers aren't average though. They are below average. Campbell is a solid qb and really the Raiders best option. Please tell me who's out there better then Campbell that the Raiders could realistically get?

I dont want a rookie starting outright, but a vetern in FA so a rookie can hold the clipboard for a year like Rodgers did in Green Bay. They wont suffer in Oakland, look at our divison record and how we beat SD twice. We need a QB that can push the ball downfield on a regular basis, something Campbell and Gradkowski cant seem to do as Campbell is inconsistent, look at his up and down numbers. Right now I am hope McFadden isnt a one year thing.

Again, Campbell has had a solid season under the circumstances. Over 2,000 yards passing, 11 tds to 8 picks, and an 83 qb rating in just 10 starts with a shit receiving corp.

 

[Big Sexy]

That is a hand touching his chin? I guess he has an extra hand growing from his helmet then, because his arms were nowhere near Cutler's head.

That was a typo, I meant helmet. That still sure as fuck wasn't a hit. He slowed up to make sure he didn't hit him and his helmet barely touched the chin. Again, the ref was right there and didn't throw a flag. I did like Cutler's acting job though, making it look as if he had just been run over.

 

[CH David]

That was a typo, I meant helmet. That still sure as fuck wasn't a hit. He slowed up to make sure he didn't hit him and his helmet barely touched the chin. Again, the ref was right there and didn't throw a flag. I did like Cutler's acting job though, making it look as if he had just been run over.

Since when do you bend over like that after just being run over?

Regardless it's a hit to the head. He only got $7,500 for that. It was more for a uniform violation. Do you not see the problem in that (other than he shouldn't have been fined in your opinion)?

 

[Big Sexy]

Since when do you bend over like that after just being run over?

It was an exaggeration. He was bent over in pain like he had just been hit hard at full speed when in reality he got an accidental love tap by a guy that was intentionally slowing down to avoid hurting him.

Regardless it's a hit to the head. He only got $7,500 for that. It was more for a uniform violation. Do you not see the problem in that (other than he shouldn't have been fined in your opinion)?

Yes I do see the problem and agree that it's fucked up. It actually happens more then you think. Look at this site. Some of these are laughable.

http://www.uniformviolation.com/ViolationList-NFL.php

 

[CH David]

Yes I do see the problem and agree that it's fucked up. It actually happens more then you think. Look at this site. Some of these are laughable.

http://www.uniformviolation.com/ViolationList-NFL.php

It's truly stupid.

 

[Moon Knight]

The Raiders aren't going to be able to get Luck and don't have the resources to trade up to get him. As far as free agents go, the only quarterbacks who may be better are Palmer and McNabb and I highly doubt either one would go to Oakland with the amount of teams that need qb's. The Vikings, Niners, Seahawks, Cardinals, and Titans are all more attractive destinations in terms of being able to win and having better weapons at receiver. Campbell is a very solid qb and underrated in my opinion.

Again, no he isnt. He Is a pile of garbage and has cost us games with his below average play. Look at how he played against SF and Pittsburgh, even in a win against the Rams he sucked and in the game against the Titans he couldn't push the ball downfield at all. He is NOT a solid QB and not underrated at all. He sucks and like Will said, he shouldnt be our starter next year.

No, it really isn't passable. Wes Welker is a shit ton better then any receiver the Raiders have and Deion Branch is better then all of them as well. The Raiders have no true number one and really don't even have a true number two. Louis Murphy is close but I'm not so sure he's even there yet. They are a team of 3rd to 5th receivers.

I was talking about his core when he was winning SB's, not this year. And it is, Ford is a threat who averages more yard per catch than Murphy and has legit potential as the games against KC and Miami showed. He isn't a true #1, but you dont need one. Bey has improved this year over last year also Reece is an FB not a WR who shouldnt be in the passing game.

The receivers aren't average though. They are below average. Campbell is a solid qb and really the Raiders best option. Please tell me who's out there better then Campbell that the Raiders could realistically get?

They are average at best and improving year over year. Again, Campbell is not a solid QB and cant push the ball downfield with any constant level, he gets benched for a reason. If he is their best option that shows how poor the position is. And who cares? So if the Raiders can't get anybody better that means Campbell is solid? Not even. They may be able to get Palmer but he is injury prone, but Vince Young maybe out there, who is very mobile and has an upside IF you can get him mature and try.

Again, Campbell has had a solid season under the circumstances. Over 2,000 yards passing, 11 tds to 8 picks, and an 83 qb rating in just 10 starts with a shit receiving corp.

Again, no he isnt. That isnt solid at all but below average at best. He has had terrible games even against poor teams, cant push the ball downfield and under the circumstances he sucks and needs to be benched. Neither of our QBs are any good. The reason our RB,FB and TE get so many catches isnt because of the wideouts, its because of the coaches lack of faith in the QB's ability to push the ball downfield. Cable has no faith in Campbell and neither does most of the world. He has even gotten worse than last year, if he has any potential he isnt showing it here.

You can believe what you want, but so will I. I don't like him at all, why can he torch Jacksonville with a so called "shit" core but gets his rearend handed to him by worse teams? That game showed we can do A LOT better. BTW, that loss was the defenses fault not Campbell.

 

[Big Sexy]

Again, NO he isnt. He Is a pile of garbage and has cost us games with his below average play. Look at how he played against SF and Pittsburgh, even in a win against the Rams he sucked and in the game against the Titans he couldn't push the ball downfield at all. He is NOT a solid QB and not underrated at all. He sucks and like Will said, he shouldnt be our starter next year.

Pile of garbage? Don't let your fandom cloud your judgment. His career completion % of 60.7, 66 tds to just 46 picks, and 82.3 rating begs to differ with your assessment. He has also done that with a different offensive coordinator every year of his career and without ever having a legitimate number one receiver. You focus on the games hes lost this season, how about the games he has helped them win? He put up a qb rating over 100 in wins over Denver, Seattle, and both victories over San Diego. He also led them to a come from behind victory over the Chiefs earlier this season. The guy isn't some great, pro bowl qb but to say he sucks is absolute bull shit.

I was talking about his core when he was winning SB's, not this year. And it is, Ford is a threat who averages more yard per catch than Murphy and has legit potential as the games against KC and Miami showed. He isn't a true #1, but you dont need one. Bey has improved this year over last year also Reece is an FB not a WR who shouldnt be in the passing game.

In 2001 Brady had Terry Glenn and a still in his prime Troy Brown who were both better then anyone the Raiders currently have. In 2003 and 2004 he had Deion Branch, David Givens, and Brown. Branch is another guy who is better then anyone the Raiders currently have. The Pats didn't have great receivers by any means but they were certainly better then what the Raiders have. The Raiders have a bunch of slot receivers with a couple guys who have potential to be number twos. Reece may be a FB now but he was a receiver in college and has 3X more yards receiving this season then he does rushing so that is why I bunched him in there.

They are average at best and improving year over year. Again, Campbell is not a solid QB and cant push the ball downfield with any constant level, he gets benched for a reason. If he is their best option that shows how poor the position is. And who cares? So if the Raiders can't get anybody better that mean Campbell is solid? Not even. They may be able to get Palmer but he is injury prone but Vince Young maybe out there, who is very mobile and has an upside IF you can get him mature and try.

The Raiders haven't had a 1,000 yard receiver since 2005 when Moss had 1,005 yards. In fact, the most receiving yards any player has gotten for them since then is Zack Miller with 805. It isn't hard to improve when you're going from complete shit to below average. Campbell is solid because his career numbers show that he is, who the Raiders can and can't get is irrelevant to his skill level.

There is now way Palmer picks Oakland over other potential destinations plus Campbell is putting up better numbers then him anyways, and an injury prone head case in Vince Young is not something that would improve the Raiders.

Again, no he isnt. That isnt solid at all but below average at best. He has had terrible games even against poor teams, cant push the ball downfield and under the circumstance he sucks and needs to be benched. Neither of our QBs are any good. The reason our RB,FB and TE get so many catches isnt because of the wideouts, its because of the coaches lack of faith in the QB's ability to push the ball downfield. Cable has no faith in Campbell and neither does most of the world. He has even gotten worse than last year, if he has any potential he isnt showing it here.

No, his numbers certainly aren't below average. A qb rating in the low to mid 80's, with more tds then picks, and doing it with shit receivers is solid. You say he can't push the ball down field yet his yards per pass attempt is 7th in the NFL this season, ahead of names like Drew Brees and Peyton Manning. The Raiders are also 8th in the league in pass plays of over 25 yards and 2nd in the league in yards per catch. Those stats all show that you are 100% wrong. The reason the Raiders don't go down field more is because they are a run first football team. When Campbell and the Raiders do go deep the numbers have shown that they are successful.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

I think BS has a love thang for Jason Campbell. For the past two years I've went back and forth with him over Campbell being shit and he continues to believe otherwise.

I'll agree that, currently, Campbell IS the best option Oakland has at the QB position. However, that isn't to say come next year they can't easily upgrade through FA or even the draft, depending on how lucky they can get.

Wow, Campbell's QB rating is 80+%, he has 2,001 passing yards. But again, is that HIS doing or McFadden and Miller getting short, dump-off passes and making something outta nothing. Ya know, it says more about Campbell's level of play that he goes to a TE and a RB more than taking shots to his WR's.

I googled who the top named QB's are set to become Free Agents (as of today - whom have not received new contracts)

1. Peyton Manning (laughable, he'll stay in INDY)
2. Tom Brady (see above only in NE)
3. Brett Favre (retiring, I think)
4. Donovan McNabb (this website is reporting that McNabb will need a remade contract to stay and something regarding draft picks??) This combined with him being unhappy, means he could go.

5.Matt Moore
6. Kyle Orton
7. Matt Hasselbeck
8. Alex Smith
----
Other Notable Free Agents:
Troy Smith, BAL
Trent Edwards, BUF
JT O'Sullivan, CIN
Seneca Wallace, CLE
Shaun Hill, DET
Brodie Croyle, KC
Chad Pennington, MIA
Tyler Thigpen, MIA
Tarvaris Jackson, MIN
Jim Sorgi, NYG
Kellen Clemens, NYJ
Bruce Gradkowski, OAK
Michael Vick, PHI
Dennis Dixon, PIT
Billy Volek, SD
Kerry Collins, TEN
Chris Simms, TEN
Rex Grossman, WAS

All of the names in bold from that list can manage games and help teams win. (Except Jackson, give or take)

This list also isn't even including the likes of a Carson Palmer who could be cut, or a Jake Delhomme who is likely out of a job since McCoy is doing so great. Both are Playoff caliber QBs who have done what Campbell has not - helped lead teams to Playoffs with lacking WR cores. (well, Delhomme anyways)

All in all, Jason Campbell isn't playing to be the starter next year. He's playing to keep his spot on the roster and be lucky to back-up any of the above named QB's, should Oakland get their hands on any of them. All of which, has just as much ability to out-play, and out-perform Campbell.

 

[Megatron]

Hill signed a 2 year contract with the Lions. He's still locked up next year.

 

[Big Sexy]

I think BS has a love thang for Jason Campbell. For the past two years I've went back and forth with him over Campbell being shit and he continues to believe otherwise.

So because I say he doesn't suck I have a "love thang" for him? Anyone who thinks he sucks is just flat out wrong. He isn't great, he isn't a pro bowler, he's never going to be a top 10 qb in this league, but to say he sucks is asinine. The guy has always put up solid numbers. I call it like I see it and Campbell is a guy who is capable of being a starting qb in this league for certain teams. The Raiders right now being one of those teams.

5.Matt Moore
6. Kyle Orton
7. Matt Hasselbeck
8. Alex Smith
----
Other Notable Free Agents:
Troy Smith, BAL
Trent Edwards, BUF
JT O'Sullivan, CIN
Seneca Wallace, CLE
Shaun Hill, DET
Brodie Croyle, KC
Chad Pennington, MIA
Tyler Thigpen, MIA
Tarvaris Jackson, MIN
Jim Sorgi, NYG
Kellen Clemens, NYJ
Bruce Gradkowski, OAK
Michael Vick, PHI
Dennis Dixon, PIT
Billy Volek, SD
Kerry Collins, TEN
Chris Simms, TEN
Rex Grossman, WAS

Let's first go to the guys in bold. Shaun Hill resigned in Detroit for next year. Even if he didn't he is not better then Jason Campbell. Chad Pennington is injury prone and will most likely retire. Tarvaris Jackson is shit. Mike Vick is not going anywhere, and Kerry Collins at age 38 is definitely not better then Campbell. Besides, Collins already failed with the Raiders a few years ago.

The ONLY qb on that entire list that I'd say could maybe be a better option then Campbell is Kyle Orton. And even that isn't a guarantee especially with the way he has finished this season. Orton could very well just have been a product of McDaniels offensive system.

 

[Moon Knight]

So because I say he doesn't suck I have a "love thang" for him? Anyone who thinks he sucks is just flat out wrong. He isn't great, he isn't a pro bowler, he's never going to be a top 10 qb in this league, but to say he sucks is asinine. The guy has always put up solid numbers. I call it like I see it and Campbell is a guy who is capable of being a starting qb in this league for certain teams. The Raiders right now being one of those teams.

You said my fandom is clouding my judgement, which is false. I call it like I see it, and looking at the whole picture my call is he sucks. This year he does suck. It isnt the fact you dont think he sucks that makes Will call it a love thang.

 

[Big Sexy]

You said my fandom is clouding my judgement, which is false. I call it like I see it, and looking at the whole picture my call is he sucks. This year he does suck. It isnt the fact you dont think he sucks that makes Will call it a love thang.

You're obviously blind then. You choose to only focus on the negatives and never the positives. I have given you reasons why he is a solid qb and backed it up with facts. You have said he sucks and backed it up with almost nothing. Guys like Jamarcus Russell, Derek Anderson, Charlie Whitehurst, and Trent Edwards suck. Jason Campbell is a decent qb who is a capable starter in this league. Once again, he isn't great, he isn't tremendous, he isn't a guy who will go out on a weekly basis and give you a 90+ qb rating, but for what he has been given in Oakland he has had another solid season.

 

[Moon Knight]

You're obviously blind then. You choose to only focus on the negatives and never the positives. I have given you reasons why he is a solid qb and backed it up with facts. You have said he sucks and backed it up with almost nothing. Guys like Jamarcus Russell, Derek Anderson, Charlie Whitehurst, and Trent Edwards suck. Jason Campbell is a decent qb who is a capable starter in this league. Once again, he isn't great, he isn't tremendous, he isn't a guy who will go out on a weekly basis and give you a 90+ qb rating, but for what he has been given in Oakland he has had another solid season.

I have given plenty of reasons why I think he sucks, you focused on the positives of the Raider passing game, I focus on the entire picture and that includes the negatives. I have stated why I see him as an inconsistent QB and that includes pointing out the games he wasn't any good. BTW, Jacksonville has a terrible Pass Defense ranked 28th in the NFL this year so thats why he did so well. I am sticking to my beliefs as I haven't seen enough evidence this year to validate changing it. You won't change your mind and I won't change mine. Lets just leave it at that.

 

[Big Sexy]

I have given plenty of reasons why I think he sucks, you focused on the positives of the Raider passing game without asking how much of that was Campbell. I focus on the entire picture and that includes the negatives. I have stated why I see him as an inconsistent QB and that includes pointing out the games he wasn't any good. BTW, Jacksonville has a terrible Pass Defense ranked 28th in the NFL this year so thats why he did so well. I am sticking to my beliefs as I haven't seen enough evidence this year to validate changing it. You won't change your mind and I won't change mine. Lets just leave it at that.

We will leave it at that but don't lie and say you gave evidence because I haven't seen shit except you pointing out a few games where he played bad ignoring the fact that his good games have definitely outweighed the shitty ones. I focus on the good and the bad and weigh them out. You ignore the good completely and just start rambling about him sucking which is an absolutely laughable statement.

 

[Moon Knight]

We will leave it at that but don't lie and say you gave evidence because I haven't seen shit except you pointing out a few games where he played bad ignoring the fact that his good games have definitely outweighed the shitty ones. I focus on the good and the bad and weigh them out. You ignore the good completely and just start rambling about him sucking which is an absolutely laughable statement.

No need to get upset over this, and I have given plenty to support why I called him what I did. Don't say I didn't because I did. Want more of why I called this season below average?

Jason Campbell

Yards = 28th
Touchdowns = 27th
QB Rating = 20th
QB Rating 82.9 the NFL Average is 86.17 (I did the math of all staters or the ones that qualified. As I said below average)
1st % = 21st
20+ = 27th
Yards per game = 29th
Comp % = 29th

Minus INT and Average all his passing numbers are down from the year before. Out of all his 100 QB rated games which dont mean much he only attempt more than 20 twice, he followed up his 117 rating against SD with a 10 against SF. He had 2 back to back 100 ratings against subpar teams then when facing KC he got 76 then a 26 against Pitts..Then out. Jac has a bad pass defense and he followed that up with a 69.1 against Denver. As I said he is not consistant at all. And the Raiders team stats mean nothing here because Bruce played to. Also one game doesnt mean he is solid this year and his career stats dont belong here. I never rambled and kept my cool, I ask for the same.

 

[The Brain]

Wow 5000 posts in the sports bar! Great move creating this thread Blue.