The Sports Bar

[CH David]

I hate the Bears. Sorry CH, but I hope you guys fail. My Vikes have been miserable this year and that would cheer me up.

And to think I rooted for the Phils. Heartbroken Theo. Fuckin' Vikings fan.

They did win the division which I didn't think they would, however, I also didn't expect Aaron Rodgers to get injured so that was a huge factor in it. With a healthy Aaron Rodgers I still say the Pack would have won the division. I still think the team is overrated and is lucky to be where they're at. I'll be surprised if they win a playoff game.

Factors all play into it. Agreed that they have overachieved. Overrated wouldn't be the word I choose because to be honest, I don't see many people rating the Bears highly outside of Chicago. But I could just be missing things. Overachieved for sure.

 

[Theo Mays]

And to think I rooted for the Phils. Heartbroken Theo. Fuckin' Vikings fan.

Sorry. Don't worry I have no disdain for the Blackhawks (despite beating the Fly Guys) nor the White Sox. However I don't like the Bulls. So I'm batting .500.

 

[Stormtrooper]

CH, my man, how can you expect a Vikings fan to like a division rival like Da Bears? The Bears are in direct competition with his team, he shant like them. It's not like me liking the Bills, whom are seemingly never in contention with the Jets. The Bears won multiple divisions recently, and are a threat to his teams success.

And CH, I don't hate Da Bears. However, this week I'm rooting for them to lose by 50. Don't take it personal.

 

[Megatron]

They did win the division which I didn't think they would, however, I also didn't expect Aaron Rodgers to get injured so that was a huge factor in it. With a healthy Aaron Rodgers I still say the Pack would have won the division. I still think the team is overrated and is lucky to be where they're at. I'll be surprised if they win a playoff game.

Injuries are apart of the game. If the Lions had Matt Stafford all year, they might be in playoff contention right now. This Bears defense is good, and if Cutler doesn't make dumb mistakes (which he's cut down on lately) then they definitely have a shot in the WC round. And if a team gets on a roll (like the Cards in 08) they have a shot.

Do I think they are Super Bowl contenders? No. But to say they're overrated is a bit of a stretch. They've had some luck ('The Process' game, first game vs. Packers w/ all penalties) but good teams take advantage of that luck.

 

[Stormtrooper]

Injuries are apart of the game. If the Lions had Matt Stafford all year, they might be in playoff contention right now.

I didn't know Matt Stafford played defense.... The Lions problem isn't necessarily the QB play.

This Bears defense is good, and if Cutler doesn't make dumb mistakes (which he's cut down on lately) then they definitely have a shot in the WC round. And if a team gets on a roll (like the Cards in 08) they have a shot.

Do I think they are Super Bowl contenders? No. But to say they're overrated is a bit of a stretch. They've had some luck ('The Process' game, first game vs. Packers w/ all penalties) but good teams take advantage of that luck.

The Bears actually have a legit shot at the 2 Seed (and a 1st round bye). If they don't, they play either the Saints or likely the Giants/Packers in the First Round, either of which will cause a rough matchup for them. Not that they can't win, but it isn't a great matchup.

 

[Big Sexy]

Injuries are apart of the game. If the Lions had Matt Stafford all year, they might be in playoff contention right now. This Bears defense is good, and if Cutler doesn't make dumb mistakes (which he's cut down on lately) then they definitely have a shot in the WC round. And if a team gets on a roll (like the Cards in 08) they have a shot.

Do I think they are Super Bowl contenders? No. But to say they're overrated is a bit of a stretch. They've had some luck ('The Process' game, first game vs. Packers w/ all penalties) but good teams take advantage of that luck.

I realize injuries are apart of the game but had I known Rodgers was going to get injured then I would have picked the Bears to win the division a few weeks ago when it was still up for grabs. They didn't necessarily prove me wrong they just took advantage of opportunities presented to them. These types of opportunities tend to be few and far between once the playoffs start.

As far as being overrated or overachieving goes, the Bears have only impressed me once this year and that was against Philly. They've only played 4 games against winning teams. They were dominated by the Giants, dominated by the Patriots, and were the beneficiary of a Packers team that shot themselves in the foot. With the exception of the game against Philly they have been outplayed by good competition.

 

[Big Sexy]

I didn't know Matt Stafford played defense.... The Lions problem isn't necessarily the QB play.

The QB play hasn't been bad but it also could have been better. With the amount of close games the Lions have played, having Stafford would have certainly given them more victories. The defense isn't great but they have one of the best front fours in the league and are a vastly improved unit. They've actually kept the Lions in some games when the backup qb's have struggled to keep the offense on the field. I believe the Lions would have at least beaten the Bears (possibly twice), Jets, and Bills with a healthy Stafford all year.

 

[Megatron]

I didn't know Matt Stafford played defense.... The Lions problem isn't necessarily the QB play.

In all 3 games he's played they've either won (vs. Washington, where he threw 4 TD's) or were winning when he went out (Chicago, NYJ). Sure, he can't play defense, but not only did it seem like they were much more confident with Matt and were playing with a sort of swagger. And he can make the throws (accurate deep balls) that Shaun Hill and Drew Stanton simply can't make.

I'm not saying they would be IN the playoffs, but a 7-7 record wouldn't be out of the question had Matt been around all year. They've been close all year playing with guys who aren't as good trying to lead them the way. The Lions have been within 5 points in the 4th quarter of I think 7 of their 10 losses this year. And that was with Hill and Stanton every time. Matt could be the guy that gets them even half of those wins. It is a huge difference when you go from your #1 to #2 to #3 QB's, no matter how you wanna slice it.

 

[Stormtrooper]

The QB play hasn't been bad but it also could have been better. With the amount of close games the Lions have played, having Stafford would have certainly given them more victories. The defense isn't great but they have one of the best front fours in the league and are a vastly improved unit. They've actually kept the Lions in some games when the backup qb's have struggled to keep the offense on the field. I believe the Lions would have at least beaten the Bears (possibly twice), Jets, and Bills with a healthy Stafford all year.

Stafford played for 58 minutes of the Jets game, as healthy as possible. He also played well. I don't think it's fair to say they would have won that game with Stafford for the last drive (where they would have run the same plays likely, since they had the lead and were running the clock). And as you said the QB play wasn't bad with Hill/Stanton. Yes, Stafford would be slightly better, but that alone wouldn't make the Lions a playoff team. And Stafford isn't Tom Brady/Peyton Manning. He's a solid young QB (no Mega, he's not better then Sanchez. Sanchez missed 1 game, Stafford played 13 in 2 seasons, that's less then Sanchez played his rookie regular season).

And still, they weren't a playoff team this year. Not even close. Maybe they win 6-7 games with a 100% Stafford, but DEFINITELY not a 9-10 win team (which is what it'll take to make the Playoffs).

 

[Big Sexy]

Stafford played for 58 minutes of the Jets game, as healthy as possible. He also played well. I don't think it's fair to say they would have won that game with Stafford for the last drive (where they would have run the same plays likely, since they had the lead and were running the clock). And as you said the QB play wasn't bad with Hill/Stanton. Yes, Stafford would be slightly better, but that alone wouldn't make the Lions a playoff team. And Stafford isn't Tom Brady/Peyton Manning. He's a solid young QB (no Mega, he's not better then Sanchez. Sanchez missed 1 game, Stafford played 13 in 2 seasons, that's less then Sanchez played his rookie regular season).

And still, they weren't a playoff team this year. Not even close. Maybe they win 6-7 games with a 100% Stafford, but DEFINITELY not a 9-10 win team (which is what it'll take to make the Playoffs).

1. Stafford was injured with 6 minutes left right before a big 3rd and 10. I also guarantee you the Lions would have run different plays to end the game with Stafford in the game. You really think Scott Linehan had the same confidence with 3rd string Drew Stanton fresh off the bench as he did with Stafford? The Lions were one first down from victory and Stafford would have had a much better shot of getting it then Stanton.

2. I never said they were going to be a playoff team. I do, however, believe that the Lions could have won 7-9 games with a healthy Stafford all year. That's a huge improvement over the 2 they had last year. Even without Stafford they currently have 4 wins and play 2 very winnable games to end the season.

 

[Stormtrooper]

1. Stafford was injured with 6 minutes left right before a big 3rd and 10. I also guarantee you the Lions would have run different plays to end the game with Stafford in the game. You really think Scott Linehan had the same confidence with 3rd string Drew Stanton fresh off the bench as he did with Stafford? The Lions were one first down from victory and Stafford would have had a much better shot of getting it then Stanton.

It was 3rd and 10 at their own 7 with a 10 point lead and 5:19 to go. Not necessarily gonna change the gameplan all that much (they had a pass that Stanton scrambled on for 6 yards, keeping the clock moving), because the whole point there is to keep the clock going. That happened and the Jets got the ball with 4:26 left needing 2 scores. They Lions then got the ball back with 2:46 to go up 3. The playcall there is to run as much clock as possible. The Lions run on 1st (timeout), run on 2nd (2MW), then inexplicably throw a pass rolling to the QBs right (stopping the clock). The only difference between the playcalling would be Stafford might have been smart enough to take the sack on the 3rd down play (instead of throwing a bad pass), keeping the clock moving.

2. I never said they were going to be a playoff team. I do, however, believe that the Lions could have won 7-9 games with a healthy Stafford all year. That's a huge improvement over the 2 they had last year. Even without Stafford they currently have 4 wins and play 2 very winnable games to end the season.

Mega said they would have been in playoff contention. The Lions are an underachieving 4 win team. They are on the way up, but the talent isn't there yet (Detroit fans on this forum were saying that they have serious needs they need to fill). As I said, I see them as a 6 or 7 win team total this year, that underperformed because of poor play from various places.

 

[Big Sexy]

It was 3rd and 10 at their own 7 with a 10 point lead and 5:19 to go. Not necessarily gonna change the gameplan all that much (they had a pass that Stanton scrambled on for 6 yards, keeping the clock moving), because the whole point there is to keep the clock going. That happened and the Jets got the ball with 4:26 left needing 2 scores. They Lions then got the ball back with 2:46 to go up 3. The playcall there is to run as much clock as possible. The Lions run on 1st (timeout), run on 2nd (2MW), then inexplicably throw a pass rolling to the QBs right (stopping the clock). The only difference between the playcalling would be Stafford might have been smart enough to take the sack on the 3rd down play (instead of throwing a bad pass), keeping the clock moving.

On 3rd and 6 with Stafford there is no way the Lions call a roll out dump pass. Stafford would have been in the pocket and I believe he would have completed a first down pass. Worse comes to worse Stafford, who isn't an idiot, would have done what Schwartz wanted Stanton to do and eat the play if it wasn't there.

The Lions are an underachieving 4 win team. They are on the way up, but the talent isn't there yet (Detroit fans on this forum were saying that they have serious needs they need to fill). As I said, I see them as a 6 or 7 win team total this year, that underperformed because of poor play from various places.

Underachieving? They were a 2 win team last year and this year, with the exception of less then 2.5 games, they have been using 2nd and 3rd string qbs. They currently have 4 wins and a chance at 1 or 2 more with their remaining schedule. How exactly is a team that improved in every aspect from the previous year and did it with backups at the most important position in football underachieving? With Stafford the Lions finish this season with 7 wins at the least and I'd be willing to bet money on that. They are a healthy qb and an improved secondary away from being a winning football team.

 

[Stormtrooper]

On 3rd and 6 with Stafford there is no way the Lions call a roll out dump pass. Stafford would have been in the pocket and I believe he would have completed a first down pass. Worse comes to worse Stafford, who isn't an idiot, would have done what Schwartz wanted Stanton to do and eat the play if it wasn't there.

1. Why would Stafford automatically complete the pass? Maybe instead he throws a pick, and it's run back for a score? Or he gets stripped. Or it's incomplete.
2. Even if he does take the sack, the Jets were still getting the ball back, and they could have easily got into Field Goal range with a minute and no Timeouts (they scored a TD 2 weeks later with 55 seconds and no TO's)

Underachieving? They were a 2 win team last year and this year, with the exception of less then 2.5 games, they have been using 2nd and 3rd string qbs. They currently have 4 wins and a chance at 1 or 2 more with their remaining schedule. How exactly is a team that improved in every aspect from the previous year and did it with backups at the most important position in football underachieving? With Stafford the Lions finish this season with 7 wins at the least and I'd be willing to bet money on that. They are a healthy qb and an improved secondary away from being a winning football team.

They underachieved because they were expected to win more games then they have going into the season.

 

[Big Sexy]

1. Why would Stafford automatically complete the pass? Maybe instead he throws a pick, and it's run back for a score? Or he gets stripped. Or it's incomplete.

I'm not saying it's automatic. I'm just saying a confident Matt Stafford playing well has a good chance at completing a 6 yard pass.

2. Even if he does take the sack, the Jets were still getting the ball back, and they could have easily got into Field Goal range with a minute and no Timeouts (they scored a TD 2 weeks later with 55 seconds and no TO's)

We can play the what if game all day long. With a healthy Stafford I say the Lions would have won, you say they still would have lost. One thing that's not disputable is that they sure as fuck had a better chance to win with Stafford then Stanton.

They underachieved because they were expected to win more games then they have going into the season.

Says who? Almost every credible football source picked them to once again finish last in the division and win around 4-6 games. Not only that but your logic is completely flawed because of the injury to Stafford. These predictions aren't made with the assumption a teams starting qb will miss nearly the whole season.

In 2008 The Patriots were predicted to win about 14 games and be the best team in the NFL. Tom Brady was knocked out in the first game for the whole season. He was replaced by a guy who hadn't started a football game at qb since high school and they still went 11-5. They won a few less games then predicted but anyone with a brain will tell you that the Pats overachieved that year.

You have to be a fool to truly believe that the Lions underachieved this year. A two win team the year prior being led by back up qb's for almost the whole season doesn't have high expectations. 4 wins with a chance for 5 or 6 sure as fuck isn't underachieving.

 

[The People's Peep]

Play of the Week thread is up. Lets see how this goes. I hope I set it up right.

 

[Megatron]

When I meant playoff contention, I meant a 7-7 or possibly even an 8-6 record. And anyone that says the Lions underachieved is a ******, since this is only their 2nd year removed from 0-16, they still have a bunch of young guys and 2nd year players, and Schwartz is still figuring out how to call a game. I was hoping for double the total and that happened. I had no thoughts of more then maybe 6 wins this year (go look in the predictions thread, I had them last in the division). I knew there was gonna have to be another offseason before we could seriously contend. But how a 2-14 team the year prior can underachieve is ******ed since they already have doubled their total (plus the opener that should've been). The D still needs work, but the offense is good.

Next year, if the Lions can add some secondary help and O-Line help (All 3 QB's are nursing arm/shoulder injuries right now) to protect the QB's we could be a surprise team. It really depends on what we do in the draft, though. I'd like to see a DB and LB taken with our first two picks, then probably a Guard or Tackle that we can try and build.

 

[People's Champ]

Larry Brown out /resigned as head coach of the Bobcats. No surprise there after a 9-19 start.

 

[Megatron]

new thread up.

 

[CH David]

What was the rest of the Top 10?

 

[Megatron]

there was Penn State volleyball, I believe NY Islanders 30 some game point streak, Colts 23 straight regular season wins from the past 2 years, UCLA mens, Celtics title run, and that's all I can remember.

 

[CH David]

Hmm...this could be troubling. Off to your thread! *whoosh*

 

[Thriller Ant]

Hmm...this could be troubling. Off to your thread! *whoosh*

 

[CH David]

I had a cape for Halloween. True story. So that in fact works. High fuckin' Five!

 

[Thriller Ant]

 

[Megatron]

So disappointed that, because of a 3 point loss to a good Nevada team, Boise is relegated to whipping the shit out of Utah instead of playing a BCS team, because I think this is the best 1 loss team in the nation.