The Sharpshooter vs The Scorpion Deathlock

[IrishCanadian25]

It's got 5 or 6 different names, but no matter if you call it the Sasori-gatame or the cloverleaf leg-lace Boston crab, Riki Chōshū's submission hold has become one of the biggest match-enders in pro wrestling history, and it's synonymous with two men - Bret Hart and Sting.

Though it is called two different names, the move is exactly the same. Funny enough, what you call it conjures up two totally different visions in one's mind.

When I hear Sharpshooter, I picture Bret Hart holding on to a bloody Steve Austin. I see the ref calling for the bell while Mr. Perfect shakes his head in defeat. I see Bret straining to hold onto the massive girthy legs of Yokozuna before Mr. Fuji threw salt in his face.

But when someone says "Scorpion Death Lock," I see Sting leaning back on the legs of Ric Flair, Big Van Vader, or Jake Roberts. I see the taller Steve Borden, paint flaking from his face, waiting for the ref to tap him on the shoulder, signifying another title reign is about to begin.

Sting is the superior executor of the maneuver. His legs are longer, making the turn easier. His upper body is stronger, making the turn and the hold easier.

In fact, when The Rock started using the move in his career, I always felt he did so after watching tapes of Sting, not Bret Hart.

Do you agree or disagree? Who executed this move better, and by what name do you know it?

 

[Uncle Sam]

It's the Sharpshooter, no doubt. Although I'm a big fan of Bret Hart, he's not the man that I initially associated the Sharpshooter with. By the time I started watching wrestling properly, Bret had already departed for WCW. It was, rather sadly for myself, The Rock that I associated the Sharpshooter with.

The Sharpshooter is the move that everyone does, that anyone can do. It's the one that Chris Benoit made Shawn Michaels tap out to, it's the move that everyone pulls out in Canada if they want some cheap heat. The Scorpion Deathlock is Sting's signature move - nothing more, nothing less.

Undoubtedly, Bret will be the man most associated with the Sharpshooter. Just like Kurt Angle will always be associated with the Ankle Lock, not Ken "some people give me way too much credit" Shamrock.

On a side note, WCW vs. nWo Revenge (on the N64), I was unstoppable with Sting and the Scorpion Deathlock. Which I called the Sharpshooter. I would say, "Look, that's a Sharpshooter right there."

Edit: And they'd fucking tap.

 

[justinsayne]

I've always viewed them as two slightly different moves, that looked incredibly similar (if that makes any sense) the Sharpshooter had the guy locking it in sitting more in the back of the recipient, where the Scorpion Deathlock has the guy locking it in standing up, that being said, to me, Bret's Sharpshooter has always looked far more painful than Stings scorpion deathlock, I'm betting a large part of that has to do with the way guys like HBK and Stone Cold sold the move, not to mention with him sitting on their backs it made it look as if their was no way to counter the hold once he locked in it, you were trapped with no escape, leaving you two options 1.) tap or 2.) pass out from the pain

 

[Slyfox696]

Umm, IC, they are NOT the same move. They are applied different, and do different things. The application and execution of them are completely different.

The Sharpshooter is a more painful hold. By tucking your opponents leg in tighter towards their knee, you are actually putting pressure on their knee/leg as well as the back. By contrast, the Scorpion Deathlock just puts pressure on the back.

I made a thread relating to this a while back. You can find it here:

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=11897&highlight=benoit

I just don't have the pictures linked properly anymore.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Umm, IC, they are NOT the same move. They are applied different, and do different things. The application and execution of them are completely different.

The Sharpshooter is a more painful hold. By tucking your opponents leg in tighter towards their knee, you are actually putting pressure on their knee/leg as well as the back. By contrast, the Scorpion Deathlock just puts pressure on the back.

I made a thread relating to this a while back. You can find it here:

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=11897&highlight=benoit

I just don't have the pictures linked properly anymore.

Subtle differences. The major movements of the move are very similar, though, and many fans link the two. I know I do.

Besides, I've seen a few of Sting's opponents sell knee pain after coming out of the Scorpion. I'd have to find some on YouTube, but I know I've seen it.

I also have to ask - do the differing bodytypes between Hart and Sting make the maneuver appear different? Sting has longer legs and a lanky build, which would enable him to stand up straighter than Hart, who almost has to lean back just to keep upright.

I will look at the two moves in depth later for these subtle nuances, and I am sure they exist - but the basic executions of the moves are similar enough to compare them fairly.

 

[realblackhart]

I have to say the Sharpshooter. I was a Bret Hart fan in those days and felt that those same moments with Yokozuna, Austin, and Perfect are moments that reminded me of the Excellence of Execution Excellently Executing the Sharpshooter. There are moments like when Bret didn't put the Sharpshooter on Doink and beating hit by Lawler and then he wouldn't release the hold on an "injured" Jerry the King Lawler. Moments like making Razor, Shawn Michaels, Benoit, and Flair give up to the Sharpshooter were memorable to me. The way the move is executed is different and Bret did it better. When Bret went to WCW i still felt that his move was superior to Sting's. But the answer to this question can be answered by the match between Bret Hart and Sting in WCW when Sting locked the Scorpion Deathlock on Bret and Bret reversed it into the Sharpshooter making Sting tap out. Bret's Sharpshooter it is!

 

[Mr. TM]

Though they may not be the same exact move, the fans still look at them as if they are one the same. When I think of the two finishers for the wrestlers however, I think that the Sharpshooter was a higher level finisher for Bret. It was his big game finisher, the one that he would pull out to get the big wins. Sting however, used the Deathlock and the Death Drop as finishers.

I think there was also that intensity when Hart used it, you knew that it was either the end of the match, or the match was shaping up to be a big match. There could be a reversal, leading to a back and forth finish. For Sting, when he locked in the Death Lock, it could have been just the middle of the match, and he was just weakening his opponent. It was by no means the end of the match.

 

[The Big Gunnzbowski]

Sharpshooter... Simply because when it was applied, you KNEW it was over. (most of the time) The Sharpshooter was THE finishing move... The Deathlock had a 50-50 chance of ending a match... They just were not the same...