The second nomination for the WZ Real Hall of Fame 2009 - Paul Heyman

[Slyfox696]

Paul Heyman

List of accomplishments:

* Pro Wrestling Illustrated
o PWI Manager of the Year (1992)

* Wrestling Observer Newsletter awards
o Wrestling Observer Newsletter Hall of Fame (Class of 2005)
o Best Booker (1994-1997, 2002)
o Best Non-Wrestler (2001-2002, 2004)

List of wrestlers, tag teams, and stables managed:

* Tommy Rich
* Dennis Condrey
* Randy Rose
* Colonel DeBeers
* Adrian Adonis
* Samoan Swat Team
* Mean Mark Callous
* Madusa
* Don Muraco
* Jimmy Snuka
* Eddie Gilbert
* Dark Patriot
* Sabu
* Taz/Tazmaniac
* 911
* Brock Lesnar
* Big Show
* Kurt Angle
* A-Train
* Heidenreich
* Rob Van Dam
* Matt Morgan
* Nathan Jones
* Rhino
* Rick Rude
* Shane Douglas
* Tommy Dreamer
* Cowboy Bob Orton
* Test
* Hardcore Holly

* Dangerous Alliance (Arn Anderson, Rick Rude, Larry Zbyszko, Bobby Eaton, Steve Austin)
* Team Angle (Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas)
* The Dudley Boyz (Bubba Ray Dudley, D-Von Dudley and Spike Dudley)

Do you believe that Paul Heyman deserves to go into the Wrestlezone Real Hall of Fame? Why or Why not? You can use ALL parts of his career, from manager, to promoter, to announcer. Be advised that spam rule is in effect, so give reasons for why you believe he should or should not be in.

Voting will start on April 27th.

 

[TheLoneWolf]

Yes, Paul Heyman should be in the Wrestlezone Hall of Fame and the WWE Hall of Fame for that matter. The reasons are pretty clear to me: there all the accomplishments you listed as a manager and the awards won, but the most obvious is that this man was ECW. He took the business in it's early stages and transformed it into the third largest market in the wrasslin' business (behind WCW and WWF). And his creation still influences pro. wrestling to this today; whenever there's a hardcore match or no holds barred match, what do you hear the fans chanting? "ECW, ECW, ECW, ECW..." His influence on the business is endless and he should only be thanked for changing it. If you think about WWF's Attitude Era is a lot similar to the normalcy occurring in ECW. Hmm... was Vinnie Mac getting some ideas from Paul E.? H.o.F'er fo' sho'

 

[klunderbunker]

Yes he should be in. People seem to forget how great of a heel character he really was before ECW was even heard of. Paul E. Dangerously was the leader of the top heel faction in WCW and fought with Sting in one of the best feuds I can ever remember.

Then you consider that he took nothing and made it something. People can talk all they want about how ECW was nothing more than a glorified indy fed. Okay, fair enough. However, answer this. Of the dozens if not hundreds of wrestling companies that have come and gone over the years, how many do we still talk about? We talk about two: ECW and WCW. That's it. I don't see Vince bringing back the American Wrestling Association to be his third brand. I don't see the WCCW on Tuesday nights. ECW may have been a short term phenomenon, but it did something that no one else has managed to do: it hasn't faded into nothing.

A lot of that can be attributed to Paul Heyman. He carried so much of the company and while he was a big part of its downfall, he was also a big part of its ascension. Vince and Bischoff can lie all they wants about how they came up with all of their ideas, but be realistic. ECW did them first in America, not WCW or WWF. Yes ECW was a breeding ground, but without Heyman, would they have ever made it as far as they did? Difficult to say.

Heyman's career speaks for itself. To be considered nearly at the level of WWF and WCW with no major financial backer, no national exposure until over halfway through the company's time of existing, and to reach everything that they did is truly impressive. Absolutely he belongs in the Hall of Fame.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

If there were to be a class on how to draw heat from a crowd, then Paul Heyman Dangerously should teach it. The man knows a crowd and what they want. He's a man who's innovative, outspoken, and one of the more intelligent wrestling minds in modern wrestling history.

I remember first seeing Paul E. in WCW as a heel commentator who eventually fought Missy Hyatt (the fuckable Missy that is) and Madusa (a legit fighter in her own right) in some entertaining bouts. Not to mention him managing countless talent. He also helped usher in Attitude. The Attitude Era in the WWE didn't arrive until around 1998. ECW was doing it in 1995! He pushed the envelope, he reinvented wrestling as we knew it, and he can make a great story.

If that's not Hall of Fame material, I don't know what is.

 

[avi01]

A huge yes! The creator of the ECW. Even when in the WWE, he was very creative and brought a lot, including one night stand. Add to this, he is an amazing on camera character, great talker, great heel who have managed many on their way to the top (like Lesnar). He even did great as announcer in 2001.
This one should be a pool too.

 

[mikeRC]

Definitely. Paul Heyman is one of the greatest creative minds in Pro Wrestling history. He arguably helped change the face of Wrestling into becoming the fast paced edgy tv that made WWF so popular in the 90's by pushing the envelope in ECW. His organisation provided a foot in the door for many of todays legendary talent by getting them noticed by the larger wrestling organisations. Jericho, Benoit, Guerero, Team 3D, Mysterio, RVD the list goes on and on. Whilst ECW also provided a start for many wrestlers on their way to superstardom the creative control that the talent had allowed many people to produce some of their best work in ECW, more specifically from a promo standpoint. Many Mick Foley promos in 1995 are some of the greatest ever. With ECW Paul E also managed to attract a fanbase so loyal that any other promotion would kill to have.

In his time in WWE he proved to be a great creative head of Smackdown and as both a GM and a manager he drew a lot of heat. His character and creative decisions on Smackdown helped elevate stars like Chris Benoit and John Cena an make them popular main event stars.

Even now his blogs on The Sun are the most interesting and insightful in all of wrestling.

Paul Heyman is a definite Legend and one of a kind creative genius.

 

[Coco]

I like him as an announcer, but I think Solie or Heenan deserve to be in before him.

I like him as a manager, but I'd take Heenan or Jimmy Hart before him.

I think ECW was glorified slum wrestling quite a lot of the time and guys like Austin, Mysterio, Eddie, Jerichio, Dean, and Benoit were going to make it no matter what, regardless of whether or not they were involved with Paul in ECW. So I think his heyday as a booker is overrated. That said, I like some of the stuff he's credited with from when he was supposedly booking SmackDown. I like his mind for the business from interviews where he revealed some ideas he had. I'm glad he stuck up for Cena at the begining.

I think he should be in, but considering how exclusive the current HOF here looks to be I don't think he should get in right now. There are people who deserve in before him.

 

[NbR1Ch]

I like him as an announcer, but I think Solie or Heenan deserve to be in before him.

True.....if we were only grading/judging on announcing skills

I like him as a manager, but I'd take Heenan or Jimmy Hart before him.

See Above

I think ECW was glorified slum wrestling quite a lot of the time and guys like Austin, Mysterio, Eddie, Jerichio, Dean, and Benoit were going to make it no matter what, regardless of whether or not they were involved with Paul in ECW.

This may be true, but if it wasn't for Heyman, the attitude era may not have ever come, wrestling in general would not have gotten as big as it did at that time and Austin would never had had the impact he did on the business.

So I think his heyday as a booker is overrated

One of the most innovative bookers of his time and one of the greatest wrestling minds ever.......but you're entitled to your opinion

I think he should be in,

We finally can agree on something......

but considering how exclusive the current HOF here looks to be I don't think he should get in right now. There are people who deserve in before him

or maybe we can't.....if it wasn't for his creative mind, innovative booking decisions, and overall impact on the business, the people that "deserve to be in before him" may have never been what they are today

100% deserves to be inducted in WZ Hall of Fame as well as WWE Hall of Fame

 

[Coco]

If anything, I'm more convinced Shawn and the gang pushing Vince to run edgier television and Bischoff and the nWo had more to do with the late-90s boom than anything. Pual's contribution to that era, while sometimes noticable, is greatly overrated, IMO.

 

[Slyfox696]

Not a chance in hell should he be in. What is he supposed to be in for? Running a promotion into the ground, and being completely unable to make money during the biggest wrestling boom in history? For carrying a phone, and at best, being the third best manager in his company? For booking the return of ECW so terribly that it led to the worst drawing PPV for the WWE ever?

How is this Hall of Fame material?

 

[klunderbunker]

While Heyman is probably the biggest reason that ECW failed, he's also one of the biggest reasons it got to that point for it to be able to fail. Every promoter that has made the big time other than Vince McMahon has failed. It doesn't mean that they didn't accomplish something on the way to their crashing.

As for the booking of ECW's return. you and i both know that he had absolutely no freedom at all in what he did. Vince had last call on everything and given the talent he had to work with, how could he have put together a good show? Show me a WWE level PPV with guys like Nunzio, Al Snow, Balls Mahoney and Matt Striker, and a main event with guys like Hardcore Holly, Test, and a green as hell Lashley. Heyman kept saying it wasn't going to work but Vince insisted.

Now don't get me wrong: the shows sucked and yes, ECW died badly with a large part, if not a huge majority of the blame going to Heyman. He did screw up a lot of things, but I think the good just outweighs the bad here. December to Dismember was always going to fail. No one, with the anchor of having Vince's input on it, could have made that show work.

 

[Shocky]

Yes, undoubtedly Paul Heyman deserves to be in. The guy is amazing, the guy has a great mind for the business, and the guy revolutionized the business. I credit Paul Heyman with the creation of the WWE version of the boom in the 90's. The WWE pretty much went to ECW, butt fucked it threw and threw with either taking talent or taking the entire attitude from it, and then later bought it out. Paul Heyman got screwed by TNN who simply used ECW to prove that Wrestling would work on their network, all the while knowing full go that they were going to go after the WWE. Instead of focusing on the negative of Paul E booked ECW into oblivion, how about giving the man credit for getting his little bingo hall promotion onto pay per view and onto cable in the first place?

ECW was selling shows out, all the way to the end, despite it's talent being completely raided by both of the bigger companies. You dont' get the attention of the two bigger companies, and you don't get your company raped of talent and image if you didn't do somethin right, and clearly Heyman did something right.

And his managerial experience, besides all of the good stuff he did as Paul E. Dangerously, let's not forget that Paul Heyman became the mouth piece for a rookie in 2002, and with his promo ability, and the rookies pure gift for wrestling, thrust that rookie into the main event scene. That's power, and that's heat. Paul Heyman could come back today, and get more heel heat then Vickie Guerrero easily.

 

[Coco]

WWE and WCW being interested in particular wrestlers on Paul's roster is something we're crediting Paul for? Why?

I'll give him one thing, though. I don't blame him for December To Dismember. A lot of that falls on him not having enough freedom to make it passable or at least fail on his own merit. On the other hand, the reputation of the old ECW is part of why Paul wasn't just given Vince's money and talent and told to run wild. If it was up to Paul, the New ECW probably would have resulted in the same trash we got out of the old ECW and a lot of money being wasted on drugs, ring rats, and bail. Ah, the glory days. It would have been a financial black-hole if WWE left everything to Paul.

 

[Chris in SC]

He was a great onscreen talent, good announcer and knows the business.

Like alot of failed promoters, it wasn't the lack of industry knowledge, it was the lack of business knowledge and the fact that if Vince targeted you, he could out spend you. Much like Reagan did to the Soviet Union to bring it down.

HOF discussion are especially difficult in sports-entertainment since stats mean relatively nothing (except maybe title reigns). In sports, one often asks can you tell the story of the game of <insert sport here> without this person?

You CANNOT tell the story of this industry over the last 20 years without Heyman being a major part of it.

One could argue that he was vital in bringing WWE back. Think about it..when WCW was winning the monday night wars, Vince took alot of Heymans ideas (and talent) and ushered in the Attitude Era, which many consider the pinnacle of WWE's existence. No way is the Attitude Era what it was without Heymans direct and indirect influence.

Yes, put him in.

 

[Slyfox696]

The poll is now open. You will have three weeks from the time of my post to vote. We ask that you give reason as to why or why not you feel that Paul Heyman should be in the Hall of Fame.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

I like him as an announcer, but I think Solie or Heenan deserve to be in before him.

I like him as a manager, but I'd take Heenan or Jimmy Hart before him.

It is my opinion that Bobby Heenan and Jimmy Hart were the best two managers in the history of wrestling. I know Dave Meltzer wants Jim Cornette to be considered either the best or second best manager in wrestling, but I still rank Jimmy Hart above Cornette. Cornette was obnoxious, and not in a good way. He cut some awesome promos, but they were overdone. It kind of loses its luster if he starts cutting intense promos every single week. Plus, the guy ridiculously over-reacted to things. If you would take a look back at old tapes and study his facial reactions, he frequently over-reacted to just about everything. Where as Hart may have been wound up with energy, he didn't typically over-act. Obviously, Heenan didn't either.

As far as Paul Heyman, I would actually prefer seeing Heyman manage as opposed to a Jim Cornette, as well. He was devious, had excellent facial expressions, cut excellent promos, etc. And I don't think he overdid it like Cornette.

But Heyman should be entered into the Hall of Fame based on his Booking Style, which WWE obviously took some notes of when forming the Attitude Era. WWE didn't completely replicate ECW because they couldn't, but I think they borrowed a few things from Heyman, undoubtedly. So Heyman deserves credit for creating a visionary product.

Also, Heyman should be included for his announcing, which I rank as being only behind Bobby Heenan and Jesse "the Body" Ventura, on the mic. Those who think JBL was the greatest thing since sliced bread on the mic, really need to go back and listen to Jesse Ventura and Bobby Heenan (during Heenan's WWF years, not WCW), before making that statement.

As a manager, Heyman should go in, as well. He did take Brock Lesnar to the WWE Championship and managed him as the WWE Champion. He also managed multiple champions in WCW when he formed his stable-- "The Dangerous Alliance". He managed Steve Austin, Ravishing Rick Rude, Arn Anderson, Larry Zybysko, Mean Mark (Undertaker), and a whole host of other legends. So he deserves recognition here, as well.

 

[cawsnallthis]

Unequivocally, yes! Explaining why would be preaching the choir. You either get it or you don't.

 

[Dr. Stinger A. Zoidberg]

I said yes, Heyman has ben one hell of a manager and a great GM(ECW Especially), if it wasnt for him, Lesnar wouldnt have been as good as he was, and more importantly the ECW invasion would have never happened.

 

[Slyfox696]

The voting has closed. Paul Heyman did NOT receive enough votes to be inducted. Sorry Paul, the people of WZ just don't think you cut the mustard.

Thread closed.