The reinstatement of "newness"

[One to Remember]

I was recently reading the thread about Joe Hennig's re-re-redebut as Curtis Axel and I heard a lot of the points pertaining to his past personas and I also heard comparisons to the Rock and Rocky Maivia and RVD being too old news to be considered for a fresh role in Heyman's newest stable.

This all brings about a question I thought about for years, with there ALWAYS being a turn over in the fan base, does a wrestler have a history if no one remembers it?

Is it safer to let a wrestler re-emerge after an absence following a failed run if the fan base or even the era has changed?

My other question is how much we as the fans who have been here longer or can just remember further back can influence people not privy to (y)our knowledge?

My three best examples would be Tensai, Batista, and Ryback.

Something fueling negative reactions to Lord Tensai were his past runs as A-Train and Albert. I have probably been watching wrestling (usually Turner programming) since '92 or '93 so I can remember T&A and other silly gimmick's Tensai had after that. For me and others its reasonable for us to be skeptical, burnt out, before we even saw Tensai's first match. Even if he made a smooth transition like Ryback did from Skip Sheffield, that might not have any baring on the group of fans who remember him running around with a grizzly bear fur back side..

Likewise, I can still remember Deacon Batista and how goofy the whole role was with Archbishop D-Von or whatever. That might be from a decade ago but what bearing even if we attempted to make it relevant would that have had on a guy who started watching WWE in 2009? I still think about Chavo trying to be a white bigot and his horse Pepé he used to ride back in the day.. That hurts my perception of him in TNA..

So can people who don't remember embarrassing pasts like that influence people who do to jump on the bandwagon when a talent really starts to take off?

 

[One to Remember]

I also forgot to mention more about Rob Van Dam, he has found a bit of new life in TNA but had grown stale by fans who watched him in the WWF and maybe even obsolete by fans of ECW. If he were to jump ship back to WWE could he not in theory make a complete comeback with the amount of younger fans and newer fans that have only been watching for 2 or 3 years? Assuming he didn't move like he was past his prime..

 

[H33LTurn]

I dont understand negative reactions to any of the superstars you mentioned. Who cares if Tensai was A-Train back when Undertaker rode motorcycles? Suspend your disbelief. Its typical of most superstars to go through a number of character changes, albeit in different promotions, before something sticks. The Tensai and A-Train characters are so vastly different from each other that I dont see why one would interfere with the other. Ryback? He was a silly cowboy on a C show that *gasp* featured most of what we see today as promising talent (Daniel Bryan, Wade Barrett) with silly storylines and mentors that could learn a thing or two from their rookies. Ryback spent enough time off TV after the Skip SHeffield character that its become nearly forgotten. Ryback works, and he rules too. Batista? His character has been consistent throughout his career. Maybe he's worked unique angles over the tenure of his career but his evolution follows a common sense chronological order.

People need to learn how to suspend their disbelief. A talented superstar shouldn't have to work a shitty angle with Brodus Clay because he played a different character nearly a decade ago.

 

[vampxx24]

I was recently reading the thread about Joe Hennig's re-re-redebut as Curtis Axel and I heard a lot of the points pertaining to his past personas and I also heard comparisons to the Rock and Rocky Maivia and RVD being too old news to be considered for a fresh role in Heyman's newest stable.

This all brings about a question I thought about for years, with there ALWAYS being a turn over in the fan base, does a wrestler have a history if no one remembers it?

Is it safer to let a wrestler re-emerge after an absence following a failed run if the fan base or even the era has changed?

My other question is how much we as the fans who have been here longer or can just remember further back can influence people not privy to (y)our knowledge?

My three best examples would be Tensai, Batista, and Ryback.

Something fueling negative reactions to Lord Tensai were his past runs as A-Train and Albert. I have probably been watching wrestling (usually Turner programming) since '92 or '93 so I can remember T&A and other silly gimmick's Tensai had after that. For me and others its reasonable for us to be skeptical, burnt out, before we even saw Tensai's first match. Even if he made a smooth transition like Ryback did from Skip Sheffield, that might not have any baring on the group of fans who remember him running around with a grizzly bear fur back side..

Likewise, I can still remember Deacon Batista and how goofy the whole role was with Archbishop D-Von or whatever. That might be from a decade ago but what bearing even if we attempted to make it relevant would that have had on a guy who started watching WWE in 2009? I still think about Chavo trying to be a white bigot and his horse Pepé he used to ride back in the day.. That hurts my perception of him in TNA..

So can people who don't remember embarrassing pasts like that influence people who do to jump on the bandwagon when a talent really starts to take off?

i dont think its so much that no one remembers it. i think people understand that the wrestler who changes 1) could of changed his character attitude, thus causing a character change. 2) was given a bad gimmick in the past due to creative which seems to be more open now (such were the cases of tensai, henning where it wasnt entirely there fault, wwe stuck them with a gimmick that just made them fail)3) the wrestler evolves from what he use to be.

using your examples.

1) a-train-> tensai -> sweet t : sure people remember a-train, but what caused the character change upon his return was the fact he spent a vast amount of time in japan after and was HUGELY over. wwe wanted to run with it thus creating tensai. the gimmick could of been 5x better if they put a mask on him. tensai failed and the gave him a character now to create a threatning tag team in an era where there trying to bring back teams.

2) batista: keep in mind deacon batista was for a SHORT amount of time and in a time where viewership was down so not many remember this. wwe saw potential and reformed him to be an animal thus bringing him to where he is today.

3) chavo's pony gimmick was silly, but the kerwin white gimmick was gold and he def had heat from it. the gimmick came to an abrupt end when eddie passed as chavo felt it would be disrespectful to continue the angle with what happened to his family( remember, his gimmick was he was a bigot and he dennounced his heritage). you can almost view white as a poorer version of the million dollar man but more outwardly racist. the gimmick had tons of potential but was cut via eddies death. i think what damaged chavo more was his end of the line run with wwe where they just buried him. this pretty much killed chavos singles career which is why tna stuck him with hernadez but he can still be viewed as a great tag guy.

4) ryback, as someone pointed out was too new for wwe audience to really remember sheffield and was primarly on nxt. he made, what 3 apperances before getting injured. after nxt ryback/sheff was one of the stars that would be considered the breakout star of the group( it was pretty much barrett/bryan/sheff look to be main eventers with gabriel being midcard but everyone else would make it). ryback was actually one of his original gimmicks so when he returned wwe just let him use it.

5) in the case of hennig/mcguillcuty/ axle..... this was something that was widely said and viewed that NEEDED to happen. it was no secret wwe goofed on his original character and it was being openly said that they needed to let him be his own character not some character they created. it then started to be said that henning/axle very much impressed hhh with his willingness to put in work and then had the backing of the rock in which he helped rock prepare for his return. henning then continued to impress when he was dropped down to nxt. his talent was always there it was the character that was holding him back. with the needed character change it brings a new attitude to him, something that was needed. the only thing that might hurt the character (well he could of picked a better name, idk why they didnt let him just something like joe "perfection" henning) is the fact they THRUST him into the spotlight like they did. imho they should of brought him into the midcard similar how the did curt and just had him start to dominante and bring him up to the top like that.

 

[vampxx24]

I also forgot to mention more about Rob Van Dam, he has found a bit of new life in TNA but had grown stale by fans who watched him in the WWF and maybe even obsolete by fans of ECW. If he were to jump ship back to WWE could he not in theory make a complete comeback with the amount of younger fans and newer fans that have only been watching for 2 or 3 years? Assuming he didn't move like he was past his prime..

rvd got stale becauses hes played the SAME character for over 14 years. its the same reason people are getting tired of cena. with all the rumors of him potential being the next heyman guy this really could of swung his career back as a heel gimmick more like he was in the late 90s aka extremly cocky/ im just better than u would breath life back into his career. rvds ringstyle would def draw to newer /younger fans, in the case of tna it was also reported that rvd was basically just dialing it in and not really pushing himself and was just there to collect a check. even at a older age i think on a wwe return we would def see a better rvd than what we saw in tna.

 

[One to Remember]

rvd got stale becauses hes played the SAME character for over 14 years. its the same reason people are getting tired of cena.

Yeah but thats the issue I am trying to get at here, you and anyone else who wrote that would be right, the bulk of people don't want to see the same persona for 14 years, but if your new to wrestling how do you understand our gripes? My question is in leue of WWE giving him a revamp could they just do a bypass and just debut him as new to the fanbase hes new to?

I am asking if that type of stunt could work with those who don't know him? Would they see him in the same light as we did in '99 or would our knowledge of him undermine his freshness to the new/younger fan?

4) ryback, as someone pointed out was too new for wwe audience to really remember sheffield and was primarly on nxt. he made, what 3 apperances before getting injured. after nxt ryback/sheff was one of the stars that would be considered the breakout star of the group( it was pretty much barrett/bryan/sheff look to be main eventers with gabriel being midcard but everyone else would make it). ryback was actually one of his original gimmicks so when he returned wwe just let him use it

That was a gimmick he had used in like a developmental territory. But I recall Ryback just being the muscle in the back ground, he was to the NXT group what the Acolytes were to the Ministry. When I here Ryback scream and holler sometimes I'm just waiting for him top yell out "yep yep, what it do?!" I think thats the problem.

Typecasting exists everywhere and in everything, wrestling included. Maybe Skip Sheffield can turn into Ryback, but could Santino turn into a Bob Backlund? Could A-Ry turn into a Bret Hart? Could Billy Gunn turn into a Randy Orton?

 

[One to Remember]

I dont understand negative reactions to any of the superstars you mentioned. Who cares if Tensai was A-Train back when Undertaker rode motorcycles? Suspend your disbelief. Its typical of most superstars to go through a number of character changes, albeit in different promotions, before something sticks. The Tensai and A-Train characters are so vastly different from each other that I dont see why one would interfere with the other. Ryback? He was a silly cowboy on a C show that *gasp* featured most of what we see today as promising talent (Daniel Bryan, Wade Barrett) with silly storylines and mentors that could learn a thing or two from their rookies. Ryback spent enough time off TV after the Skip SHeffield character that its become nearly forgotten. Ryback works, and he rules too. Batista? His character has been consistent throughout his career. Maybe he's worked unique angles over the tenure of his career but his evolution follows a common sense chronological order.

Suspend disbelief? If we could do that as willy nilly as you make it sound we might as well suspend other things like taste and standards. I am not talking about evolutionary stages I am talking about rough or impossible transitions because of how divergent certain personas are to what the WWE brass would like the wrestler to next portray. Goldust coming back to WCW as Seven (before the big wigs axed it)... THE ONLY WAY Dustin Rhodes could had gotten away with pulling that off is if no one was aware he had formally been Goldust. Likewise for when Dustin Rhodes left WCW the first time and became Goldust in the WWF. If he had spent time as his old WCW cowboy persona in the WWF then became Goldust it would had failed..

You think the Undertaker could play Cena's gimmick at this point or vice versa? The differences in characters can only be so vast.

 

[H33LTurn]

Suspend disbelief? If we could do that as willy nilly as you make it sound we might as well suspend other things like taste and standards. I am not talking about evolutionary stages I am talking about rough or impossible transitions because of how divergent certain personas are to what the WWE brass would like the wrestler to next portray. Goldust coming back to WCW as Seven (before the big wigs axed it)... THE ONLY WAY Dustin Rhodes could had gotten away with pulling that off is if no one was aware he had formally been Goldust. Likewise for when Dustin Rhodes left WCW the first time and became Goldust in the WWF. If he had spent time as his old WCW cowboy persona in the WWF then became Goldust it would had failed..

You think the Undertaker could play Cena's gimmick at this point or vice versa? The differences in characters can only be so vast.

No ones debating that a character might not suit a certain performer. The point is that those fans who get angry whenever a superstar gets a new gimmick, even if it works, even if its like Tensai's case and its been almost a decade since they were an active member on the roster, have unrealistic expectations when it comes to the business of professional wrestling. Wrestlers have always made changes from minor tweaks to their names to complete physical transformations. If you were to say that you dislike Tensai's character because its goofy or his in ring work is not up to par, then I would understand. Such is not the case. Just like actors play different movie roles, and some of them convincingly, so must superstars adapt to their surroundings.

 

[EastCoastFan]

I think it depends on the person, the gimmick and how long they played it for. Some people can radically change gimmicks and make it work. Who would have thought that a tough, no-nonsense, long-haired, beer-swilling redneck like Bradshaw could reinvent himself as a suit-wearing JR Ewing clone (JBL)?

As for Tensai, he was in WWE for years during the Attitude Eraas Albert and later A-Train with the same look and moveset, and never really got over. After he was released by WWE in 2004, he went to Japan for 8 years and became a huge star there. He then went back to WWE, still pretty much the same guy except the tattoo on his face. WWE may have been calling him Tensai, but he still looked too much like Albert. If he had radically changed his look while he was away (lose some weight, lose the piercings, shave the beard off, grow his hair in, ...), Tensai might have done better.