I see what you're saying, and some heels don't see themselves as the antagonist, but some do. Some openly admit they are not nice people and that they are driven by personal gain. I'm pretty sure both Cena and the Rock see themselves as good men, but Ziggler seems like he wants to fly that heel flag high and shove his talent in everyone's face. This is why I don't mind Ziggler calling himself a heel.
The "Reality Era" Is Bad For WWE
- Thread starter ProWrestlingFan
- Start date
I see what you're saying, and some heels don't see themselves as the antagonist, but some do. Some openly admit they are not nice people and that they are driven by personal gain. I'm pretty sure both Cena and the Rock see themselves as good men, but Ziggler seems like he wants to fly that heel flag high and shove his talent in everyone's face. This is why I don't mind Ziggler calling himself a heel.
Cats Pajamas
Serenity now!!!
I absolutely see what you're saying... as a person who doesn't engage in Twitter, sometimes the hash tagging is kind of annoying to me. The Rock's promo last night didn't strike any chord with me because I have no interest in trending or hearing Cena and Rocky talking about each others wangs (or lack thereof) as I've heard it for a year now already.
One of the things I tend to dislike is their use of the terms "jobber" and "heel". I understand that wrestling is predetermined, but for some reason I really don't want to be reminded of that while I'm watching. Dolph's use of #heel kinda bugs me only because I think we should know he's a heel by his actions, not because he tells me his a ********. It's like the APPLAUD sign lighting up for a live studio audience. I say "I'll clap when you give me a good reason."
That being said, I give Jack-Hammer the nod for a great point about escapism. The UFC is around so it's pretty obvious that WWE is not true combat; at some point it becomes senseless to keep pretending...
...hmmm... I was going somewhere with that... oh yeah...
...embracing the theatrical side has opened up the gates for WWE to keep people buzzing about the show on Twitter even when it's not on. Instead of writing off the so called "10%ers", WWE is inviting the rest of the audience to participate more and more. I'd imagine it makes it easier on the writers to come up with stories that us smartasses on the internet are going to buy into a little more.
They say that the rolling stone gathers no moss and it seems like we've been witnessing a shift in the landscape of professional wrestling the past year and I, for one, am pretty excited to see what happens. The people have spoken and like any successful business, WWE has been listening! Finding their niche with the audience once again!
One of the things I tend to dislike is their use of the terms "jobber" and "heel". I understand that wrestling is predetermined, but for some reason I really don't want to be reminded of that while I'm watching. Dolph's use of #heel kinda bugs me only because I think we should know he's a heel by his actions, not because he tells me his a ********. It's like the APPLAUD sign lighting up for a live studio audience. I say "I'll clap when you give me a good reason."
That being said, I give Jack-Hammer the nod for a great point about escapism. The UFC is around so it's pretty obvious that WWE is not true combat; at some point it becomes senseless to keep pretending...
...hmmm... I was going somewhere with that... oh yeah...
...embracing the theatrical side has opened up the gates for WWE to keep people buzzing about the show on Twitter even when it's not on. Instead of writing off the so called "10%ers", WWE is inviting the rest of the audience to participate more and more. I'd imagine it makes it easier on the writers to come up with stories that us smartasses on the internet are going to buy into a little more.
They say that the rolling stone gathers no moss and it seems like we've been witnessing a shift in the landscape of professional wrestling the past year and I, for one, am pretty excited to see what happens. The people have spoken and like any successful business, WWE has been listening! Finding their niche with the audience once again!
Reality angles is what keeps this industry afloat. VKM a long time ago broke taboo and told everyone wrestling is entertainment and I think he has done pretty good for himself. Anyone that wants to stop "reality" then took a look back at both WWE and WCW in the early 90's and character development was horrendous. Most wrestling fans of all ages have known what a heel and face is for a while. ADR like Miz and Ziggler give the same type of promo everytime so its the fans and not an "insider" who have gotten bored by those talents mic skills. Most of your top talent over the years have had scripted promos with alot of creative freedom for those promos. Flair back in the JCP days was told to talk about his opponent and why Flair is better and do it for the last 2-3 minutes of the show. Rock's promo last night had some good moments but overall it seemed the Rock to a certain point was to keep it PG as he had too many moments where he paused and repeated his first line of the extention of the promo!
Not entirely sure why it's so much of an issue. Everyone knows it's fake. Hell, Tough Enough basically exposes the scripting and safety precautions taken in the ring when executing moves, creating characters and personalities, etc. If that didn't infuriate the die hard wrestling fans then nothing else short of someone pulling another Vince Russo showing scripts on TV should. It was an open admittance that the business is fake for the most part.
The point of a TV show is to get you emotionally sucked into the storyline. This is something thats really hard to do when every 5 seconds a show feels the need to remind you that its just a show. "Oh we're just people here, in a ring, pretending to be angry, playing the bad guy, making lots of money". Thats not going to attract the same kind of attention as some heartfelt promo about an issue that can be resolved in the ring or by jumping someone backstage. Keep it relevant to what goes on inside the walls of the WWE. The twitter thing has been done to death even before the WWE decided to go with it. Who cares if wrestling is fake. So is every TV show out there. And dont give me the whole "its whats in the ring that mostly matters" because no one watches a random match with no build up and treats it like a main event match should be treated. Sure, the in ring stuff is important, but the backbone is the storyline. The purpose is the storyline. And when you hinder a storyline by bringing up irrelevant stuff that only a certain percentage of the audience truly knows about you lose the spectacle part of the business that separates it from regular olympic wrestling. And I doubt WWE wants its TV audience to turn onto smarks because then it would need to start booking in a very different way.
Reading the posts here, I think it's important to remember that most of the kayfabe-breaking stuff has been "personal issues;" no one's flat-out said that wrestling is fake, right? So H33LTurn, just to use your quote as an example, I don't think it's exactly like this:
The kayfabey stuff has been stuff that only would enhance the storyline, imho--CM Punk maybe legitimately quitting or hating HHH, the Rock maybe not caring as much about his fans as he's always led us to believe, etc. Not stuff that draws us out of our suspension of disbelief, rather stuff that thickens storylines in its realism. The wrestlers are still addressing their issues--real-life issues now--in promos, and settling their disputes in the ring, just like always.
The kayfabey stuff has been stuff that only would enhance the storyline, imho--CM Punk maybe legitimately quitting or hating HHH, the Rock maybe not caring as much about his fans as he's always led us to believe, etc. Not stuff that draws us out of our suspension of disbelief, rather stuff that thickens storylines in its realism. The wrestlers are still addressing their issues--real-life issues now--in promos, and settling their disputes in the ring, just like always.
mikekinkade
Dark Match Jobber
This reality era stuff makes no sense. It doesn't really fit in with the whole point of professional wrestling. Professional wrestling is fake and that's the whole point. It's suppose to be unrealistic....story-lines, angles, etc.
Why expose another wrestler on TV? The goal should be to hide a wrestlers real-life weaknesses so they can do a better job FAKE performing.
If this breaking kayfabe stuff goes to far you will end up killing a wrestlers momentum. It takes years to properly build up a wrestler, and having someone expose their flaws on national TV could be disastrous.
Why have wrestlers been breaking kayfabe a lot lately? It's because the writers can't come up with compelling story-lines, and the wrestlers are limited in what they can do. So it's an easy way to attack an opponent.
There hasn't been any real point to The Rock wanting to face Cena. So they cut these promos that basically attack each other...but they have already ran out of things to talk about. So what's left to do? Introduce backstage childish nonsense! Great job, I can't wait for WM....
Why expose another wrestler on TV? The goal should be to hide a wrestlers real-life weaknesses so they can do a better job FAKE performing.
If this breaking kayfabe stuff goes to far you will end up killing a wrestlers momentum. It takes years to properly build up a wrestler, and having someone expose their flaws on national TV could be disastrous.
Why have wrestlers been breaking kayfabe a lot lately? It's because the writers can't come up with compelling story-lines, and the wrestlers are limited in what they can do. So it's an easy way to attack an opponent.
There hasn't been any real point to The Rock wanting to face Cena. So they cut these promos that basically attack each other...but they have already ran out of things to talk about. So what's left to do? Introduce backstage childish nonsense! Great job, I can't wait for WM....
I really dont see any point in adding reality. There are alot of great story lines without it. Plus most people dont understand what is being said or even care. People seem to forget that this is a tv show. The reason why i am saying that people seem to forget is because they act like people need be "real" to be good. The best stars in the history of the WWE had fake storylines and fake characters.
Some who think Reality in wrestling shouldn't be there apparently don't know the industry too well. If WWE kety Austin as the Ring Master or went back to Stunning Steve with the Austin/McMahon rivalry all current WWe talent would possibly be working for Eric Bischoff. The NWO angle was all based off of reality with Hall and Nash as that is there real names. If some fans want to go back to pre-attitude WWE would be out of business. VKM's character direction before and after attitude for the most part has been awful. He never wanted Hitman or HBK as champions but there wasn't enough talent around them to change his mind. Cause those don't look like big enough characters and with that thinking alone proves VKM has no concept of what fans want. He still thinks entertainment is what draws fans to WWE. If that was the case than in the 80's he would of made billions of dollars instead of the attitude era. I laugh at the fact when fans say more wrestlers are pure entertainment than wrestlers and thats why since the end of attitude he has lost nearly 70% of his fan base. If you were to merge ROH with TNA and have ROH current management in charge with a greater TV deal and better production VKM would be shaking in his boots!
Raven/StevieRichardsfan
Dark Match Jobber
I honestly don't think that this "reality era" is bad for the WWE because most of the people that watch the WWE knows that it is fake. WWE knows that they have to evolve and change their product or people are not going to tune into their shows. I think that this "reality era" makes it unpredictable because we have people like CM Punk and Dolph Ziggler and you never know what they are going to do. Like when CM Punk said "And this isn't CM Punk talking to Triple H, this is Phil Brooks talking to Paul Levesque." That has NEVER happened before.
Dude, this is what the pro wrestling business is, if you don't like it no one is forcing you to watch it, but pro wrestling is fake, if you want real wrestling go to japan, but don't complain about something that is fake.
This is a large part of the problem with promos in WWE. A wrestler is a lot better at giving a promo when they themselves believe in the material and can put their own voice to it. A nerdy middleage guy who used to write sitcoms has no idea how a young hip guy would talk. And really there is only so far you can go with "That's my title and come (insert pay per view here) I'm taking it back." or "It is My Destiny." The best wrestlers are ones who can take an actual element of their personality and amplify it. It's a lot more believable than having a bunch of clowns and pig farmers running around.
Tired0FthePeople
Defender of the Universe
I was going to make a thread about this but luckily searched for one first.
Some people are saying that WCW did a reality era by exposing scripts and breaking kayfabe. Also, DX went to a live Nitro event and talked trash outside the building and Bischoff went on TV the next week and called out Vince McMahon by name so yes, some sort of reality has been done but I think this is a different type of 'reality' wrestling.
Think of this...
HHH talks about not wanting to end the Undertaker because he is a brand that is good for business. Taker talks about the real life feeling that Shawn has always been better than HHH. (but shawn has always been better than just about everyone lol.)
Cena's entire program with the Rock is based on the reality of Dwayne Johnson and the reality that the fans are sick and tired of Cena.
CM Punk talks about real legit beefs with Chris Brown and Micky Rouque(sp??) to further the fued with Jericho.
Lets not forget that incredible 'real' promo Punk did on that Raw episode that started all this. How many people that was the most epic promo they'd ever heard? Or at least the most epic promo they've head in 3 or 4 years?
WWE uses social networks like twitter to show us when WWE related material is trending...the wrestler themselves tweet and interact with the fans. Ive had several tweet sessions with Miz and Punk personally, as have many of you.
Kane brings to light the real life situation of many fans wanting Cena to embrace the hate and basically turn heel. Cena cuts interviews saying "I understand how a portion of the WWE universe has become complacent with me, but im not going to change who I am."
ALL of CM Punk's ongoing promos about making the WWE championship interesting again, how Johnny Ace is boring and is out of touch with how to make the program fun, how he is truly the best wrestler in the world because of his combined mic and in-ring skills.
THIS is the sort of 'reality' Im talking about. Tell me ONE reality based situation ive mentioned that hasnt been good for WWE? HHH/Taker, Cena/Rock and Jericho/Punk are all matches with a 'reality era' situation driving the train for the fued and all three buildups so far have been great. Bryan/Shaemus doesnt have the reality based thing pushing the match and its the least interesting of the top for matches, although Im not citing that as the reason why. THIS is the reality era im talking about...not stupid shit like exposing scripts, breaking kayfabe each and every chance they get and all that WCW toilette bowl garbage. I mean...just LOOK at the results of all these reality based angles. You cant say anything has been anything but gold. The 'this is Phill Brooks talking to Paul Leveque' line sent chills down my back! OK that was an exaggeration lol but you get my point.
Some people are saying that WCW did a reality era by exposing scripts and breaking kayfabe. Also, DX went to a live Nitro event and talked trash outside the building and Bischoff went on TV the next week and called out Vince McMahon by name so yes, some sort of reality has been done but I think this is a different type of 'reality' wrestling.
Think of this...
HHH talks about not wanting to end the Undertaker because he is a brand that is good for business. Taker talks about the real life feeling that Shawn has always been better than HHH. (but shawn has always been better than just about everyone lol.)
Cena's entire program with the Rock is based on the reality of Dwayne Johnson and the reality that the fans are sick and tired of Cena.
CM Punk talks about real legit beefs with Chris Brown and Micky Rouque(sp??) to further the fued with Jericho.
Lets not forget that incredible 'real' promo Punk did on that Raw episode that started all this. How many people that was the most epic promo they'd ever heard? Or at least the most epic promo they've head in 3 or 4 years?
WWE uses social networks like twitter to show us when WWE related material is trending...the wrestler themselves tweet and interact with the fans. Ive had several tweet sessions with Miz and Punk personally, as have many of you.
Kane brings to light the real life situation of many fans wanting Cena to embrace the hate and basically turn heel. Cena cuts interviews saying "I understand how a portion of the WWE universe has become complacent with me, but im not going to change who I am."
ALL of CM Punk's ongoing promos about making the WWE championship interesting again, how Johnny Ace is boring and is out of touch with how to make the program fun, how he is truly the best wrestler in the world because of his combined mic and in-ring skills.
THIS is the sort of 'reality' Im talking about. Tell me ONE reality based situation ive mentioned that hasnt been good for WWE? HHH/Taker, Cena/Rock and Jericho/Punk are all matches with a 'reality era' situation driving the train for the fued and all three buildups so far have been great. Bryan/Shaemus doesnt have the reality based thing pushing the match and its the least interesting of the top for matches, although Im not citing that as the reason why. THIS is the reality era im talking about...not stupid shit like exposing scripts, breaking kayfabe each and every chance they get and all that WCW toilette bowl garbage. I mean...just LOOK at the results of all these reality based angles. You cant say anything has been anything but gold. The 'this is Phill Brooks talking to Paul Leveque' line sent chills down my back! OK that was an exaggeration lol but you get my point.