The Real Attitude Era, WCW???

[CM Punk Circa 2004]

1st off I know ECW is really what motivated WWE to start the Attitude Era, that and needing to compete with the at the time Superior WCW. But...Really, The NWO was formed in August 1996. Austin 3:16 was born before the NWO, but didnt really kick into gear until the next year in 97. And logically I think we all know DX wouldn't of happened without the NWO and WWE needing to change it's image from the family friendly kiddy crap "oh that sounds familiar " So I guess im just saying, didn't WCW really start the Attitude Era and it was WWE that just simply did the same thing but super exceeded it?

A funny side note. There was an apparent ECW Fan at BATB 96 where Hogan turned heel loving every moment of it.

 

[Slyfox696]

Absolutely WCW was the reason for the Attitude Era. All the misguided ECW fans can say what they want, but the fact of the matter is this. The WWF didn't do Attitude, until WCW did. And, of course, when people think Attitude they want to talk about beer, swearing and sex, but that's not REALLY what Attitude was about. What Attitude was about was pushing the envelope, about edgy TV that hadn't been seen before in wrestling.

And that's what WCW did nearly every night until around 1998. And that's what the WWF DIDN'T do until WCW was kicking their ass. ECW was doing their style of promoting for years, but it wasn't until WCW started their edgier product that the WWE stepped into the game.

 

[RVDgurl]

Absolutely WCW was the reason for the Attitude Era. All the misguided ECW fans can say what they want, but the fact of the matter is this. The WWF didn't do Attitude, until WCW did.

Absolutely on point. WCW brought attitude before the WWF. However, ECW did it before WCW. ECW began pushing the envelop and banging on that glass ceiling in 1994. WCW and then WWF simply followed suit and molded those ideas into something that could be used on a more national level. It just so happened in the end, Vince was able to take the ideas from Heyman and Bischoff and repackage it into something that was absolutely untouchable.

 

[Exist2Inspire51]

ECW was the company that started the Attitude Era. They were pushing envelopes and doing things that no one had done or even thought about doing. WCW stole so much from ECW that its not even funny. Vince did take some but he even said that he paid ECW for what he used. WCW just stole it and tried to say that they made it. WCW was ok but they folded the same time ECW did so how great could they have been really. ECW was where it all really started no matter what you want to say about it.

 

[Slyfox696]

WCW stole so much from ECW that its not even funny.

They did? Like what?

THEY had the the luchadores and technical wrestlers before ECW did, THEY were doing hardcore bouts before ECW was, they stole the nWo angle from Japan, and acquired talent from EVERY wrestling organization.

What did they steal from ECW?

Vince did take some but he even said that he paid ECW for what he used. WCW just stole it and tried to say that they made it. WCW was ok but they folded the same time ECW did so how great could they have been really. ECW was where it all really started no matter what you want to say about it.

Perhaps because, unlike ECW, WCW actually was profitable at some point in its existence? Perhaps because, unlike ECW, WCW was the number one company in the world at one point?

 

[BananaHeel]

No. WCW did not start the Attitude Era. It was all ECW's idea since the beginning.

Yes, the NWO helped revolutionized the Attitude Era, but it wasn't the start. Traces of an apparent "adult theme" came into play as soon as Shawn Michaels became WWF(E) Champion in circa 1996 or so. The year saw Sid Vicious attack Shawn's manager with a camera, Vicious slammed the manager's son into a table, Shawn posing for Playgirl, Diesel (Nash) strip a parapeligic of his leg and use it as a weapon,etc. The list goes on and (small but apparent) traces of a rebellious phase in WWF(E). At that time Hogan JUST turned heel in WCW.

I mention the HBK Era to denounce any thought that WCW had attitude before WWE. ECW had it WAY before both promotions, as early as 1992 if my memory is right. And for those that still believe WCW had it before WWF(E), then let me try with one last desperate attempt to prove you wrong-

The Kliq.

From this stable came 2 of the most controversial groups ever. I think you know what they were. WWE Officials didn't like this group because they held power over booking, so they let Hall and Nash's contracts expire, and they started that Order along with Hogan. Yet again in WCW it was apparent that they held power over matches and how things were run.

How does The Kliq fit into The Attitude Era? Because without The Kliq there wouldn't be a New World Order...or DX. Attitude was held by the NWO in WCW, and it was the same attitude that left WWF(E).

 

[Exist2Inspire51]

Slyfox look at your history but ECW brought the the luchadors to America from Japan and Mexico before anyone did. They didnt show up in WCW til late 96' early 97'. ECW started in 94'-95' and Heyman brought them to America before WCW could buy them away. WCW was profitable yes but they didnt make names. Goldberg was like the only one they really made. Most of their Champs were WWF guys who left and had big names. Hell Hogan was the front of WCW the entire time he was there. There was hardly WCW. It was Hogan adn the NWO 90 percent of the time and when it wasnt them it was going downhill.

 

[Menstrual Blood]

You forget that WCW even hired Sandman and renamed him "Hardcore Hak", which was a jab at how ECW wrestlers were often seen as no talent hacks.

Luckily Sandman went back to ECW.

WCW simply tried every trick in the book (KISS demon included) to keep viewer ratings up, and in the end they still failed.

Good riddance to WCW.

 

[Slyfox696]

Slyfox look at your history but ECW brought the the luchadors to America from Japan and Mexico before anyone did. They didnt show up in WCW til late 96' early 97'. ECW started in 94'-95' and Heyman brought them to America before WCW could buy them away. WCW was profitable yes but they didnt make names. Goldberg was like the only one they really made. Most of their Champs were WWF guys who left and had big names. Hell Hogan was the front of WCW the entire time he was there. There was hardly WCW. It was Hogan adn the NWO 90 percent of the time and when it wasnt them it was going downhill.

No, look at YOUR history.

First of all, WCW held the Pat O'Connor Memorial Tag Tournament, and which featured Konnan and Rey Misterio Sr. Then, they featured wrestlers like Pillman, Jushin Liger and The Great Muta, which featured a wrestling style which helped pave the way for luchadores in America. Finally, look up the PPV show "When Worlds Collide". This show was co-promoted by Bischoff and the WCW, and featured many of the luchadores that Heyman would go on to hire, such as Rey Mysterio, Psichosis, and Eddy Guerrero, and did so BEFORE they showed up in ECW.

Like I said before, WCW was doing the luchadore thing before ECW did.

 

[Exist2Inspire51]

They may have showcased them first but they went back to Mexico and Japan pretty damn fast. ECW used them often and correctly way before WCW did. ECW was about pushing the limits in all aspects not catering to the whims of the older big names that would control the company and run it into the ground. Even when WCW started to use the Cruiserweights properly they were part of bad story lines and stupid gimmicks (see 3 Count).

 

[BananaHeel]

Names like Eddie Guerrero and Rey Mysterio were in ECW BEFORE they went on to WCW. I implore you to look their history up.

As for everything else you've said, I agree to a point. Rarely did WCW do anything with Hardcore Matches, but had them before ECW made it popular.

 

[Menstrual Blood]

Names like Eddie Guerrero and Rey Mysterio were in ECW BEFORE they went on to ECW. I implore you to look their history up.

As for everything else you've said, I agree to a point. Rarely did WCW do anything with Hardcore Matches, but had them before ECW made it popular.

Eddie Guerrero joined ECW in early 1995, then left for WCW in late 1995.

Rey Mysterio was in ECW from 1995 - 1996. Later in 1996 he left to join WCW's cruiserweight revolution thing.

Therefore, BananaHeel is right.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Wrong again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_When_Worlds_Collide

As you can clearly see, the show was presented by AAA in conjuction with WCW and that show starred Eddy Guerrero and Rey Mysterio so they were on WCW before ECW.

 

[Exist2Inspire51]

Wrong Little Jerry Lawler. They were in AAA not in WCW. They were not apart of WCW. They were in AAA. They were just at a joint show. So that means they were not apart of the WCW roster. They were contracted by AAA.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

It was regarded as the first time luchadors were presented to American audience and the pay-per-view was secured in America by Eric Bicshoff. What company was Eric Bischoff in charge of in that time. I believe it was WCW. So they were introduced in a WCW pay-per-view before they were in ECW.

 

[Menstrual Blood]

LJL, you're right about Bischoff securing the PPV for AAA, but you're still wrong.

There were no WCW wrestlers in the show, WCW wasn't a part of it. It was strictly AAA.

Therefore, luchadors were actually a formal part of ECW first, not WCW. WCW was simply a stepping stone for the luchadors.

 

[BananaHeel]

*shakes head*

WCW (Eric Bischoff) helped AAA in coralations to its Pay Per View, and maybe hopefully get some of its superstars in return. But the luchadors weren't going out as members of WCW or employers of Eric Bischoff, but as AAA. So Eddie Guerrero and Rey didn't work for WCW until after they were signed on as ECW superstars. AAA did not belong to WCW, so the luchadors didn't belong to WCW.

 

[Exist2Inspire51]

And at that time Eric wasnt i charge of WCW. He was a part of it but it was until like 97' when he gained control of WCW

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Not trying to say that there were contractually obligated to WCW or anything. That pay-per-view was in conjuction with WCW which meant that WCW played a part in it too. If it wasn't for WCW's part, that PPV would be mostly forgotten.

When you said WCW was a stepping stone, you just basically admitted that they appeared on WCW before ECW.

 

[Menstrual Blood]

Not trying to say that there were contractually obligated to WCW or anything. That pay-per-view was in conjuction with WCW which meant that WCW played a part in it too. If it wasn't for WCW's part, that PPV would be mostly forgotten.

When you said WCW was a stepping stone, you just basically admitted that they appeared on WCW before ECW.

I meant stepping stone as in WCW helped them get into North America.

They didn't use WCW as a stepping stone as in working for them.

My point still stands that they were in ECW first.

 

[The Dewbliners]

Does it really matter where the luchadores were first? I'm thinking it doesn't. Seriously, who on these forums actually watched ECW at that point? I'm guessin' X, NSL, and a few others.

Fact is, and to be on topic, WCW was indeed the instigators of Attitude. Vince didn't rip off ECW because he saw potential. He did it to avoid going out of business. WCW, on the other hand, had already worked with the people they recruited initially. Rey, Konaan, and Eddie G. along with guys like Benoit (yes, he was in ECW first, in the Unified Tag Title tourney, teaming with Biff Wellington), Scott Levy, and a few others. WCW pushed the envelope before WWE, as well. Before Vince was doing crash tv, Bischoff was stirring the shit with the nWo, Hulk Hogan throwing The Giant off the top of an arena, Pillman coercing Heenan to drop the fuck word on live TV, as well as many other examples.

So, to answer the question: Was WCW the originators of Attitude? Yes, it was.

 

[Exist2Inspire51]

ECW was the first for just about everything. The ECW Revolution brought about everything you could possibly love in the 90's for wrestling.

 

[BananaHeel]

I don't see why so many people here believe The Attitude Era was started by the same promotion whose tagline was "Where The Big Boys Play". Tables were being broken, Barbwire surrounded the rings, storylines were getting 'extremely' twisted in nature, and all of this officially began in.....1994. When Paul Heyman himself renamed Eastern Championship Wrestling to Extreme Championship Wrestling.

Attitude Era started in WCW....I don't recall the fans chanting "You f***ed Up" Until after The Fingerpoke Of Doom XD

 

[The Dewbliners]

ECW was the first for just about everything. The ECW Revolution brought about everything you could possibly love in the 90's for wrestling.

Except they didn't, really. The so-called "Revolution" was a ploy to make them sound cutting edge. 90 % of their roster were a bunch of hacks. Really, the only technical wrestlers, which is very much what I do now, and always have, enjoyed. They had Benoit, Malenko, Guerrero, and Taz. That's about it. Maybe Raven. As for everyone else, they all needed props like cheese graters, chairs, profanity, and skanky women to get over. ECW was basically sleaze, with a few glimmers of wrestling.

WCW, on the other hand, offered technical wrestling, Puro, and entertainment. Thus, WCW in fact, had everything I wanted in the '90's when it came to wrestling. The fact still stands, WCW were the originators, and reason for "Attitude". Without WCW winning the ratings war, along with WWE's business spiraling downward, we never would have been subjected to "Attitude" or Russo's crap booking in the first place.

 

[Slyfox696]

They may have showcased them first but they went back to Mexico and Japan pretty damn fast.

So, you admit that ECW stole the idea of luchadores from WCW? Great.

ECW was about pushing the limits in all aspects

Bullshit, ECW was about making money, just like every other promotion. The way they tried to do it was appeal to the stupid fans who were willing to sacrifice match quality for bloodletting.

Eddie Guerrero joined ECW in early 1995, then left for WCW in late 1995.

Rey Mysterio was in ECW from 1995 - 1996. Later in 1996 he left to join WCW's cruiserweight revolution thing.

And both of them worked the "When Worlds Collide" PPV show, which was co-promoted by Bischoff in 1994. What's your point?

Furthermore, you and the others have completely ignored what I mentioned earlier, about the Pat O'Connor Memorial tournament at Starrcade 1990, Jushin Liger, Pillman, and Muta in the early 90s, as well as the When Worlds Collide show. And since our original point was not about specific workers, but rather a particular wrestling style, does it really matter where they worked first, when the STYLE was being done in WCW before ECW ever became it's own company?

Wrong Little Jerry Lawler. They were in AAA not in WCW. They were not apart of WCW. They were in AAA. They were just at a joint show. So that means they were not apart of the WCW roster. They were contracted by AAA.

That's great, and AAA had a working relationship with WCW for that show. Why the hell do you think Bischoff helped promote that show? Because he was such a great guy? Fuck no. He helped because he was working to establish a relationship with AAA like he worked to establish one with New Japan. That way he could use the talent from those companies.

You're wrong in just about every aspect.

And at that time Eric wasnt i charge of WCW. He was a part of it but it was until like 97' when he gained control of WCW

Bischoff was named Vice President in 1994, and as Vice President, he the man in charge of the company, only with overseers. But he was the man who was responsible for the direction of the company, and the things they did.

ECW was the first for just about everything. The ECW Revolution brought about everything you could possibly love in the 90's for wrestling.

No they weren't, hell they were nothing but a ripoff of FMV from Japan. So, not only were they not the first, they weren't even the best. Moreover, they didn't even make money from ripping off of promotions.

You're not very smart, are you?

I don't see why so many people here believe The Attitude Era was started by the same promotion whose tagline was "Where The Big Boys Play".

Probably because you seem to think Attitude has something to do with weapons, beer, swearing and sex. It doesn't.

Tables were being broken, Barbwire surrounded the rings, storylines were getting 'extremely' twisted in nature, and all of this officially began in.....1994. When Paul Heyman himself renamed Eastern Championship Wrestling to Extreme Championship Wrestling.

Those things had been going on for YEARS. Look up Starrcade 1985 match between Magnum and Tully and you see a cage match where a chair gets broken and a piece of the chair is used. Watch some early Cactus Jack matches. Look up some Abdullah the Butcher matches. Hell, watch the Terry Funk vs. Ric Flair feud of '89, when Funk piledrives Flair through a table. And let's not even get into the things they were doing in Japan at the time.

You are completely wrong.

Attitude Era started in WCW....I don't recall the fans chanting "You f***ed Up" Until after The Fingerpoke Of Doom XD

If you think saying the word "fuck" has anything to do with the Attitude Era, you obviously weren't old enough to understand it when it happened.