kevinc2415
Dark Match Jobber
Good to have another Nation member on this board.
The Pope Is Pimpin' His Way To The Main Event
- Thread starter NSL
- Start date
Super Crazy
CABS ARE HEEEERREEE!!
I have to be honest, I wasn't really a fan of his when he was Elijah Burke in the WWE. This just goes to show you what a gimmick change can do for someone. He's hugely over and I'm a big fan of his. He is definitely on his way to the main event, and I say by the end of the year, he'll have main evented against AJ. I know he won't win the title yet, but to at least be at that level is great for him.
This is so corny, but I love his entrance, when he stops and makes the money come down, it's just awesome.
This is so corny, but I love his entrance, when he stops and makes the money come down, it's just awesome.
Alex
King Of The Wasteland
Pope has impressed me a lot, I never saw him as Elijah Burke but by the sounds of it I didn't miss much. His promos are possibly the best in TNA right now and they flow with ease, he has a great look and I certainly see him maineventing soon.
One thing I think he needs to do to help him solidify a main event spot is get another finsiher, the Dinero Express is good but he needs something else like a variation of a cutter or a type of powerbomb
One thing I think he needs to do to help him solidify a main event spot is get another finsiher, the Dinero Express is good but he needs something else like a variation of a cutter or a type of powerbomb
Schizophrenic
iMPACT! Player From The Start
Bite me. haha. Looks like we are doing this again. This will be fun. Give these people a chance to see real debating without name calling again huh?
Whose to say that "Pope" isn't just Elijah turned up? He doesn't really preach the bible or anything like that but speaks his mind (and in some cases the truth). It's just a name and I don't really see the GIMMICK (got it right that time) being much of a gimmick at all, simply himself with some added pressure. Depends on the placing of NY you are from. I'm sure you are bound to someone like that around in certain places. I'm with ya on one thing too many over the top gimmicks are insane, at least he's not a damn dentist.
Miz is good but he's bordering on the Jericho territory of becoming stale and repetetive. Although his promo on JBL a few weeks ago was solid as was Jericho's SmackDown one this past week but both are starting to lower in value to me. I agree that Punk right now has become untouchable but MVP? Really? You can't honestly tell me that MVP's promos are really riveting and make you want to watch a match of his. I should ignore you for your mention of Cena, and Hunter is either saying "I am the game" or "Suck It' too much for me to really care about him and his big nose. I'm not saying that Pope is the best on the mic but he's better than a lot (including a lot in TNA) and that can't be taken away. Plus being "over" or "underrated" is in the eye of the beholder. And let's not forget most people who are "over rated" are flavor of the month guys that fanboys cum over at first then fade off of, and I can't say Pope is one of those guys.
May not be a fan but check out the saga of Tyler Black vs Austin Aries. Probably the better thing they have done in years. Youtube has a channel on it by these guys called ThatWrestlingShow and they did a great video package that may get you interested in that feud at least.
I agree that Rock's stuff was getting better and maybe that will be the same for Pope...MAYBE. But that's a case of wait and see. Time will be the judge. With Pope's character I can see him doing a Rock-Esque thing where he can either go face or heel and that will keep him fresh. I do hope that I look back on him in a few years and go "Wow, he was good then but now....". I hope you also do the same. I also think we will look back in a while and realize that while "The Pope" will no doubt be one of the more outlandish gimmicks, he is still subdued when it comes to things like "IRS", "The Goon" and "The Ding Dongs".
I like Elijah Burke, I really do, but I just don't see him as main event material. For one thing he's too small. The second thing though is that his gimmick is what is keeping him over and as an over the top gimmick, it's going to have a relatively short shelflife. Generic wrestler Burke didn't really do very well in WWE, so I think he needs to prove that he can get the reaction he's been getting without being an out and out pimp every week. He could be a good fixture for TNA though, but it all depends on how he develops.
Schizophrenic
iMPACT! Player From The Start
He's 6'1, 230. That;s not small. That's the size of most of the guys in WWE and 15 pouunds less than everyone's WWE Golden Boy Randy Orton. Pope even has a better build than Randy. Randy is built dont get me wrong but the guy is so damn thin. Pope has something to him. This isn't WWE, size isn't everything.
JJYanks121
The Mouth of the South Shore
Of course. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Good call on the Denist, and again, this isn't 1995 anymore. The gimmick thing is basically dead and even when they weren't, it was often the guys who portrayed guys closer to real that were the main eventers. I would say that trend certainly was a part of the New Generation and on into the Attitude Era. Champions like Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, the Steve Austin, Rock, Foley, and HHH weren't over the top gimmicks as champions. The major exception, of course, is Undertaker, but for some reason, the fans have ate up that gimmick for a long, long time. I have no argument or explanation for it, I have simply come to accept it. However, it wasn't the insane Mankind that won a WWF title, or the funky Dude Love, or even Cactus Jack that won the big one, it was Mankind that was basically a goofy side of Mick Foley that still liked to battle. My main point is that for the Pope to be a true main eventer, he will have to grow out of his gimmick. It's fine to use a gimmick to get over in the beginning, but the champions are men, and he will have to get to that point in his career to truly be a main eventer.
Eh, but that's because I dont' love MVP's matches and that's part of what holds him back. He is, however, very talented on the mic. Unfortunately, it's rare he's put in a position to actually wow you as such. The guy is a talker though and is quite comfortable on the stick.
Why? Did you see his mic work tonight? When he gets serious, I quite like his mic work. I dont' think anyone wows me every time they get on a mic, but when he has a point and isn't doing his holier than thou type stuff, he's quite good. I like the very real comments he had about Vince today. The fact that he can get it across in the manner he does shows me that he can deliver when the moment calls for it. Unfortunately, his character doesn't always afford him the opportunity to have those type of promos all the time, but when it happens, he's pretty darn good.
For one thing, I'm Jewish and my nose is kind of big so I'm trying hard not to be offended myself here (totally kidding!), but again, when Hunter gets serious, there's not many that are better. His stuff with Shawn tonight was pretty good, and his work will get elite as the road to Wrestlemania grows. His humor isn't for everyone, but when he has a true feud, he makes his mic work count. And he doesn't really say anything about being "the game" too much anymore. That's something that's always kind of defined singles HHH in that he was never really one for too many catchphrases.
I can. He might be a flavor of the month right now. Perhaps in a couple of months and a few weaker promos or matches, you might be more down on him. It's also possible that he continues to rise to greater heights and improves on his stuff. I dont' know because I can't tell the future. Of course "overrated" and "underrated" are in the eye of the beholder, but overness is not. Overness directly comes from crowd reaction. It is defined as how much the crowd cares for a particular performer. As of now, the TNA crowds are getting behind Dinero. The only question I have with that is the same question I had for John Morrison, which is "you are a face because the fans decided as such, but is it because they like you, or because you truly didn't grasp heel tendencies and thus, the hand was forced to turn you face because you can't work a heel style?" If that is the case, it also means psychology of character is an area for improvement, and again, improvement is a good thing.
I may just check it out. I've seen some things in the past but it just wasn't my thing, but hey, you never know.
Ugh, nothing is worse than those gimmicks, and there's a reason they were always enhancement talent and not main eventers. And I've stated and I will stand by the fact that I think the kid has potential (though he is older than I thought, but young in wrestling years given lack of exposure). I hope he improves too because as Vince Lombardi said "if you aren't improving, you are getting worse" (or something like that) and I believe that. I do believe if Burke sees that in himself, he will only get better. Just like I said for Kofi Kingston though, the fake accent has to go. When a character is you but "turned up", it still needs to be who you are. I think as Burke grows in TNA, more of himself will come out of his character and the Pope thing will start to fade. If he lets his true potential out, he could do very well in TNA. I am not down on him, I'm just not shooting my load over him just yet either. Right now, he is the flavor of the month, but he has plenty of room to grow. I'm just curious to see what speed the growth happens at.
Schizophrenic
iMPACT! Player From The Start
But even though he was playing it as the goofy side he was still Mankind. Still int he gimmick and still goofier than ever. Pope could do something similar where he is more himself just with the flashy robes and glasses and character just turn it down a noch. Again, time will have to tell on this.
I will agree to that, Porter does seema t ease ont he mic and that's good. Better than alot of people around today.
I didn't watch that part of RAW yet, but im sure it was better than his Hogan imitation. Im not gonna say that when Cena gets serious he's not good, but like Porter we don't get a chance to see him get serious often to show it. He's usually sounding like a high school quarter back getting his school behind him for a big game. Hated it then, hate it now.
I think some of Pope's crowd reaction is he is a talented performer who has not been labeled a "WWE Guy" therefore the Impact Zone fans love him. He is being able to show what he can do with a variety of opponets, not just Punk or a bunch of Bingo Hall Warriors. I think that has something to do with it. I'm hoping they build him for a while then turn him face to see if he can pull that off or if he was destined to be a face.
I dont think it is shown in the video much but A Double's mic work alone makes the feud fun. Also if you can check out ROHBrazil's youtube page and watch last Monday's main event between Black and Strong if not for Aries's interaction alone. I was cracking up.
I do think that will happen as well. I'm not saying that if "The Pope" is gone then he's finished, I'm just arguing that the character is not a bad way to get your foot in the door to show what the man can really do.
knockaroundguy13
Dark Match Jobber
I totally agree, WWE definately dropped the ball with him. His charisma is undeniable, his in ring work is great, and his mic work is awesome. TNA has a good thing going with him, and I wouldnt be surprised to see him in the title hunt before 2010 is out.
agreed. Pope is single handedly the most entertaining mic worker. has one of teh best intros, His gimmick is so entertaining, he puts on really good matches...AND he's black.. when was the last time we had a belt on a black man. WWE OR TNA... idk.. Ron killings as champ..
Rooting for you pope..
pimp up the main event!!
Rooting for you pope..
pimp up the main event!!
SexandWrestling
Dark Match Winner
Why the need to play the race card? If you want to bring that up, who was the last Asian WWE or TNA world champ? Can't we just talk about the undeniable skills of the Pope without resorting to bringing up race? Enough of that shit already!
Why the need to play the race card? If you want to bring that up, who was the last Asian WWE or TNA world champ? Can't we just talk about the undeniable skills of the Pope without resorting to bringing up race? Enough of that shit already!
No, because race will always be an issue. The mentality has not changed whatsoever and you're in denial if you think that this is an issue that will automatically go away because you want it to.
I, for one, am glad to see that Burke is going in the main event. The E did drop the ball with him while he was in ECW. He had skills on the mic and in the ring, but for some reason Vince couldn't get it inside his head that he had the potential to be THE Major superstar. Now, he's paying the price because the Main Event Picture in Raw and Smackdown is getting stale.
Straight Edge Loyalist
Dark Match Winner
I guess it's official: The Pope is a main eventer.
I loved this guy ever since he was in the E. He has the look, the charisma, the ring skills, the everything to succeed in the business. I thought his "generic wrestler" role was just fine in the E while he was managing Terkay and leading The New Breed, the fact is after that angle he was booked like complete shit and was released.
Good to see him back where he belongs.
I loved this guy ever since he was in the E. He has the look, the charisma, the ring skills, the everything to succeed in the business. I thought his "generic wrestler" role was just fine in the E while he was managing Terkay and leading The New Breed, the fact is after that angle he was booked like complete shit and was released.
Good to see him back where he belongs.
Well after watching this ppv, the conclusion I have come to is that this PPV was all about getting The Pope over and making him the FACE of the company. The Pope beats 3 men in one night, while also being attacked back stage, and also main events the show instead of the Championship match???
It's all starting to make a lot more sense to me now. I read on here that Hogan had said that "The Pope is going to be our John Cena" and I think we all saw just that tonight. Who else wins 2 matches in one night, gets beaten up back stage, comes out in the nick of time only to be pummeled for most of the match and then pulls out a win... AFTER KICKING OUT OF A FINISHER?
What we are seeing is The Pope becoming the John Cena of TNA, i.e. The Pope is becoming "the Superman" of TNA. Now my question is, are the same people who complain about Cena being Superman going to complain about The Pope getting the same treatment? Otherwise, it seems kind of hypocritical.
I for one am not a fan of the Pope and I find it hard to root for a lot of the TNA "faces."
I mean when I see guys like The Pope, Matt Morgan, and Joe ... I just think they are heels. They are cocky, arrogant, and have chips on their shoulder'(s) ... what makes them faces? How differently would they act as heels?
I'm someone who never looked at HBK the same way after he super kicked Marty Jannety and then threw him through a glass window on the Barbershop skit when he turned heel and left The Rockers. I also didn't appreciate Austin as a face until the end of his career and while The Rock was gone. My point is, I'm someone who never roots for the heels. It's just a lot of these guys I can't get behind, except for the heels (like Anderson and Wolfe.)
I mean when I think of a face, I think of guys like Sting!
But anyway, I'm not a fan of The Pope and if I have to look forward to him being a main eventer, and a super man/face type main eventer at that, then I think I'm going to get real tired of TNA and fast. I'm starting to regret complaining about AJ Styles being too small to be the face of the company ... at least he could pull off a decent face.
I haven't liked the Pope from the start ( I think he was suppose to be a heel as well )
because he was parading around as this conceited "harlem street preacher/pimp" type guy who had to use the monicker The Pope? So he's trying to come off as some Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson type guy who sells ****es?
It wouldn't be so bad, but does he have to call himself The Pope? It kind of seems like his character was meant to be offensive (he debuted as a heel.)
And then I read this blog by him where he goes on and on about his love for Michael Jackson and how he was the most famous and beloved man in the world and follows it up by saying (not everyone loves the pope in white)
So he's saying a possible child molester was the most beloved man in the world and not everyone loves The Pope(from Rome), as if The Pope in white is a bad man or something? (I couldn't even tell you the current Pope's name, but I just find all of it very backhanded and ridiculous too even say)
So yeah, a bit bothered by this Pope push, oras Desmond Wolfe would say ... this Poop push.
It's all starting to make a lot more sense to me now. I read on here that Hogan had said that "The Pope is going to be our John Cena" and I think we all saw just that tonight. Who else wins 2 matches in one night, gets beaten up back stage, comes out in the nick of time only to be pummeled for most of the match and then pulls out a win... AFTER KICKING OUT OF A FINISHER?
What we are seeing is The Pope becoming the John Cena of TNA, i.e. The Pope is becoming "the Superman" of TNA. Now my question is, are the same people who complain about Cena being Superman going to complain about The Pope getting the same treatment? Otherwise, it seems kind of hypocritical.
I for one am not a fan of the Pope and I find it hard to root for a lot of the TNA "faces."
I mean when I see guys like The Pope, Matt Morgan, and Joe ... I just think they are heels. They are cocky, arrogant, and have chips on their shoulder'(s) ... what makes them faces? How differently would they act as heels?
I'm someone who never looked at HBK the same way after he super kicked Marty Jannety and then threw him through a glass window on the Barbershop skit when he turned heel and left The Rockers. I also didn't appreciate Austin as a face until the end of his career and while The Rock was gone. My point is, I'm someone who never roots for the heels. It's just a lot of these guys I can't get behind, except for the heels (like Anderson and Wolfe.)
I mean when I think of a face, I think of guys like Sting!
But anyway, I'm not a fan of The Pope and if I have to look forward to him being a main eventer, and a super man/face type main eventer at that, then I think I'm going to get real tired of TNA and fast. I'm starting to regret complaining about AJ Styles being too small to be the face of the company ... at least he could pull off a decent face.
I haven't liked the Pope from the start ( I think he was suppose to be a heel as well )
because he was parading around as this conceited "harlem street preacher/pimp" type guy who had to use the monicker The Pope? So he's trying to come off as some Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson type guy who sells ****es?
It wouldn't be so bad, but does he have to call himself The Pope? It kind of seems like his character was meant to be offensive (he debuted as a heel.)
And then I read this blog by him where he goes on and on about his love for Michael Jackson and how he was the most famous and beloved man in the world and follows it up by saying (not everyone loves the pope in white)
So he's saying a possible child molester was the most beloved man in the world and not everyone loves The Pope(from Rome), as if The Pope in white is a bad man or something? (I couldn't even tell you the current Pope's name, but I just find all of it very backhanded and ridiculous too even say)
So yeah, a bit bothered by this Pope push, oras Desmond Wolfe would say ... this Poop push.
Schizophrenic
iMPACT! Player From The Start
Just because the guy is cocky and arrogant doesn't mean that he cant be a good guy. Look at pop culture icons like James Bond and many other heros on television and movies. The best I can think of in an obscure refrerance than some may get is Mal Reynolds from Firefly and Serenity. The guy was the most bragadocious, cocky, arrogant little prink and you just loved him because he was an everyman. I don't think they are trying to make him Superman like Cena per se. For god's sake's it a tournoment and ANYONE who won HAD to win three matches in a row. That's the way things go. Yeah the Outsiders attacking was weird but it got people to cheer for him more and made people think that Anderson was no doubt winning, then the place blew up because he actually pulled it off. Would you say the same about Anderson or Morgan if they won? Probably not. You don't like Pope and he won so automatically it bugs you. Understandable but to deny the guy his moment and chance to get to be a star because YOU don't like him is ridiculous.
Notorious718
...
I'm intrigued to see where Pope goes from here. He's now secured himself a spot in the Lockdown main event and is quickly solidifying himself as a major player in TNA (and potentially the eventual face of TNA) which is awesome although I really wanted to see Pope compete in the Lethal Lockdown match but I digress. Anyway, I'm not sure if TNA is gonna put the belt on him at Lockdown but if his match with AJ on Impact was any indication, I'm sure he'll have an excellent showing with him looking very strong but with AJ just barely retaining his title.
That entire post confirms that you have a problem with a black wrestler having the potential to be the top face of TNA and you're doing everything to downplay his potential impact(no pun intended) and your racial overtones are not even worthy of a response. Let's be real.
Obviously, you haven't watched ECW and the crap that he had to put up with while he was there. From being declared "the chosen one" by Vince in ECW to not being seen on WWE-TV and released. Now that he earned his title shot, you have a problem with his push?
Let's face it. It's a new era. Attitude is over. Past Accomplishments mean nothing. The Stings of the world are close to retirement. It's time for the new blood to take over and be given the ball, no matter what race.
Or, you can always drool over your poster of Desmond " Russo gave me a stupid name and I got buried by Hogan" Wolfe.
proofinlife
Pre-Show Stalwart
I'd rep you for the quality post, but what was contained in the post doesn't deserve it. You've got waaaay too much bias to objectively look at anything for good debate. As pschizo said, WHOEVER would've won that series would have had to have won 3 matches in a row.
Pope getting beat up and persevering and still winning is the basis to getting him over with the fans in the short run and the long run (short run: they were intrigued and wanted to see what happened in the match; long run: he looks like a credible threat with a geniune thirst for gold). This has been done for the last 70 years in pro-wrestling, and is by no means a "John Cena Formula" (as I have just put it). The only reason they've repeatedly done this with Cena is to sucker in the little kids that buy his merch, and continuously try to win over the older crowds which see right through him. Pope isn't being pushed as a SuperCena, it was one match, one occurrence, until it happens repeatedly for a 6 year span, then we can label him SuperPope, he hasn't even been there 4 months yet, very hard to judge.
Also, the John Cena character, or SuperCena as it's coined, is looked down by so many because his character (yes, his CHARACTER, John Cena CAN wrestle, lo and behold.... :O ) is limited in the ring to literally 5 - 7 moves. Pope's skillset is not based around his character and he can do whatever the hell he wants in the ring, and that gives him no limitations which he's definitely capable of doing; he's a technically sound wrestler, so he's worth the investment.
I don't know why you don't like this guy, he's great in the ring, great on the mic, and has possibly the BEST gimmick in TNA at this moment in time, not to mention the coolest damned ring entrance I've ever heard in my 20 years watching on and off.
I also don't think he's being built as the FACE OF TNA, they've already got that, and it's AJ styles. They're simply building him up and getting him super over with the fans so that he can work in top slots and be believable with the fanbase. When he turns heel, the fans will react greatly to him after getting over as a face, it's exactly like how the Rock went from being a mega face to an uber heel inside of one week. I'm not saying he'll be the next Rock, but they're following the same formula.
FromTheSouth
You don't want it with me.
I am not going to read all of this, so if I am repeating someone else, consider that person a genius.
Pope deserves to be in the main event. TNA is made for someone with his skill set. TNA needs an over the top performer in the main event, especially when paired with AJ Styles. I am not going to say anything about AJ not being good on the mic, because I believe he is good and getting better. I just think that the direction AJ's character is going, that to balance how Flair-ish he's gotten, someone needs to be over the top the other way. Pope fits that bill.
Secondly, he is more than serviceable in the ring. He puts on solid matches. He pulled Morgan to a solid match in a clusterfuck of styles that could never work with someone of only average talent. Imagine the amazing match the he and AJ could put on. Burke, while athletic, is not a high flier, yet, he uses his quickness to set up his strikes and throws. AJ relies completely on quickness. These two do not need to carry each other, therefore, they can use their quickness to tell a wonderful story of clashing styles, clashing personalities, and upward mobility.
Finally, Pope is superover. It is hard to get the TNA crowd to boo AJ. It almost worked with Joe, but as the match went on, that crowd remembered that they love AJ. Why not give it another shot with someone who is that over? Pope is that over, and this is his chance to show Vince that he could be that over in the WWE. Burke is wrestling for his legacy, for revenge, and to give thanks for his second chance right now, and is making the most of every opportunity. I, for one, am excited for him and thank TNA for showing CT how to pull the trigger on someone when they're hot.
Pope deserves to be in the main event. TNA is made for someone with his skill set. TNA needs an over the top performer in the main event, especially when paired with AJ Styles. I am not going to say anything about AJ not being good on the mic, because I believe he is good and getting better. I just think that the direction AJ's character is going, that to balance how Flair-ish he's gotten, someone needs to be over the top the other way. Pope fits that bill.
Secondly, he is more than serviceable in the ring. He puts on solid matches. He pulled Morgan to a solid match in a clusterfuck of styles that could never work with someone of only average talent. Imagine the amazing match the he and AJ could put on. Burke, while athletic, is not a high flier, yet, he uses his quickness to set up his strikes and throws. AJ relies completely on quickness. These two do not need to carry each other, therefore, they can use their quickness to tell a wonderful story of clashing styles, clashing personalities, and upward mobility.
Finally, Pope is superover. It is hard to get the TNA crowd to boo AJ. It almost worked with Joe, but as the match went on, that crowd remembered that they love AJ. Why not give it another shot with someone who is that over? Pope is that over, and this is his chance to show Vince that he could be that over in the WWE. Burke is wrestling for his legacy, for revenge, and to give thanks for his second chance right now, and is making the most of every opportunity. I, for one, am excited for him and thank TNA for showing CT how to pull the trigger on someone when they're hot.
robroy1977
Dark Match Jobber
What about that "POP!' Those were 2 of the loudest "POPS" I've ever heard in TNA when Pope kicked out of the mic check and eventually won. That show that he is Main Event ready. The crowd loves him and he has the talent to back it up. On another note, I think TNA really told great stories with most of the matches tonight.
SexandWrestling
Dark Match Winner
If you feel race is an issue, why not be up in arms about my example of not having an Asian world heavyweight champion? I guess that's "acceptable" then since you didn't even feel the need to respond to that in your post.
I think that everybody should be given an equal chance but if we keep on separating wrestlers into racial categories like this, it isn't doing nothing but drawing attention to the fact that they are a given race.
I really don't give a shit that Pope is black...That thought never really crossed my mind...I just find him entertaining and is very solid in the ring. Maybe if we started not to bring up race every time somebody of color gets a push, it wouldn't be such an issue.
I knew that the WWE was on one when they let Elijah Burke aka "the pope" slip threw there fingers reguardless if former ECW writer Dave Laguna left the company. The Popes the future in pro. wrestling as people saw tonight!
In TNA the pope has a chance to become the new Booker T. Become a future muilty-time TNA world heavyweight champion and main event.
In TNA the pope has a chance to become the new Booker T. Become a future muilty-time TNA world heavyweight champion and main event.
burningfnhammer
Dark Match Jobber
Not that many Asians in wrestling that can speak good English. That's a fact. There's like two in both main companies. English-speaking Asians don't get into wrestling. And a non-English-speaking Asian will not become world Champ in any promotion. With the exception of Giant Baba and the Great Muta in NWA. If you can point to me 5 Asian wrestlers that should've gotten a push, then I can see your point. In the case of African-Americans, there are dozens.