The "No Personality" Stable

[The Poster]

so i cant help but notice that there are SEVERAL superstars that seem to have so much potential but are in serious need of some personality, charisma...i dont know, SOMETHING to get them over the hump and to have fans take them seriously. some moreso than others, of course, but here is my list. feel free to add to it if you feel the need.

wade barrett and dolph ziggler...to a lesser extent. ziggler especially, has become one of my favorites as of late, but i almost feel like without vickie guerrero, i dont know if he would have the same heat to most fans as he does now. hes hilarious on twitter, i think he just needs to have some more mic time, and to have more impactful feuds than one with zack ryder.

also to a lesser extent...sheamus. time to go back to being a heel, dude. pounding your chest and yelling suddenly makes you a good guy? i dont get it. much more interesting as a bad guy.

now to the real list.

basically everyone that has ever been on NXT are boring as all hell.

-heath slater...who cares?
-darren young...who cares?
-david otunga...eh, getting there
-michael mcgillicuty...potential is there, but lawler was right...eh. and worst name ever.
-husky harris...what happened? and even if he comes back, and knowing who his father is/was...why should i care?
-justin gabriel...cool finisher but my god...some charisma please? who cares?
-skip sheffield...looked like a total goon even when he was around, when he comes back...why should i care?
-titus o neill...good god, who cares?

and most of all...daniel bryan. i know he has a strong internet following but come on, he is so boring. i compare him to a modern day lance storm. good, solid wrestler but boring beyond words. the money in the bank briefcase, even michael cole are doing all they can to try to make this guy relevant but im just not feeling it. if this guy co main events wrestlemania...i dont even know what im going to do. truthfully, im ordering it anyway because i always do, but he will be about the 17th biggest reason as to why i do.

others:

-ted dibiase...who would have thought he would be the one to fade into oblivion from legacy? they cant seem to figure out what to do with him, and i dont know that i could either.

-mason ryan...yeah, impressive physique but looking as much like batista as you can is not going to give you a personality. who cares?

-ezekiel jackson...again, impressive physique but just screaming during the whole match and scoop slamming some scrub isnt going to win you over with fans...plus his religious ramlbings on twitter? I HATE YOU.

-drew mcintyre...i like the guy, has the potential...but i cant even tell you the last time i saw him on my tv. from "chosen one" to "never been one." just goes to show you that just playing the "foreign heel" character isnt enough to keep you relevant (jinder mahal...)

tyson kidd...way above average in the ring. maybe pair him back up with natalya, i dont know. but obviously the random manager on superstars, and the 7 foot tall goon we saw, like, twice didnt help. is his size (or lack thereof) that much of a detractor?

jack swagger...his title reigns were a bit premature, i think we can all agree, but even having been associated with the 2 biggest heels in the company in michael cole and vickie guerrero hasnt helped him AT ALL over the last year or so.

i didnt mean to make this post as long as i did, but if youre still with me, i would love to see some ideas as to how to help some of these guys, because there is a lot of potential there to be tapped into, as well as some jobs to save. so have at it.

 

[kokoBawesome]

There is only one way this could actually work, if this stable is lead by none other than interim general manager of Monday Night Raw John Laurinaitis!!! It makes perfect sense!!!

All kidding aside, its great that the current WWE roster is full of guys that can really wrestle, but there isn't enough room to fit everyone on Raw and Smackdown. I haven't seen Alex Riley in months, and I don't miss him at all. Where is there time in a two hour broadcast for A-Ry to do anything substantial? They can barely fit in a divas match that lasts over a minute. (they aren't going to get better if they only have 60 seconds to work with)

The real solution to this isn't another stable, but to finally start partnering these guys up into tag teams. Most of these guys don't have strong enough personalities to stand apart from each other, its a good time to start from scratch and get a few tag teams going.

 

[dotty_84]

Dolph Ziggler is doing fine, maybe a year ago i could agree but he is getting better, is it only me that think that if he dumps Vickie and is then given a mic he'll be able to do faaaar better? For me the longer he has Vickie the more it hinders him.

Barrett, is great on mic. He has personality all Wade has needed was a good fued one on one and he's getting that with Orton.

Sheamus, what the hell, he ran out his Heel course....for now. He's an excellent face and gets good pops, he doesn't need to turn heel at all, he needs a fued right now though.

You mentioned a few ex NXT guys...

Darren Young will be dropped next year.

Slater, Gabriel, McGillicutty are good workers, lower with possibly mid card pushes. Is all i can see for them.

Otunga to me boring and plain as dirt but he'll be kept for some weird reason.

Hsuky Harris i liked his Gimmick i liked his shape, it was different. Why they dropped him to FCW again with a god awful Jason gimmick, who knows.

Skip, hated him in NXT was a goof but he was shining in Nexus, second to Wade, his injury really has fucked him i think. This Ryback character...hmm...

Percy i think will get dropped also.

Seen a few other names i can't be arsed speaking off. Apart from Swagger, i like the guy, he's good in the ring, and to be fair he ain't the worst on the mic but i feel he's a face kind of guy, too likeable, this year he's been used sparingly but that's not a bad thing atleast he's still getting on TV.

 

[Firewall_Philip_Hanan]

This is an excellent post so I just had to respond. There are SO many ways WWE coud have fixed these careers plus more.

If I ran WWE Creative (which I honesly wish I could do for a living), here is what I would do to help EVERYONE that is fallen into mediocrity. (Except those who simply can't be helped)

Dolph Ziggler: He shouldn't have been promoted as perfect until he beats scores of other wrestlers like Goldberg did. He should have faced mostly heels so he would be built into a face character that was likable. He should be looser and more fun like Billy Gunn, but with better in-ring skills and brains.

Barett should have immediately captured the WWE title faster than ANYONE in WWE history. I'm talking faster than Orton and Lesnar. He should have defended it and proved his dominance and only lost to maybe Undertaker. He NEVER should have started a faction. Nexus should have been started by a jealous David Otunga instead which would have built him up as jealous heel.

Sheamus should been independent much like The Rock. He's should have been a heel from the start and changed to goody-goody. He should have been a much respected warrior who worked hard to capture a title, therefore earning fans respect instead of winning the title super fast than not being able to connect with the fans when he won it.

Darren Young is so medicore, he shouldn't even be in WWE or TNA. Indie Circuit Material.

Slater has charisma, but not personality, so he needs to be over-the-top. He needs to dress like a rock star, walk to the ring with woman around his arms, and come up with some insanely unique moves.

Gabriel should have been a face from the start who had more personality than Bourne. He should have tag teamed with Bourne and been the WWE version of Motorcity Machineguns. He should have been the Shawn Michaels of the group while Bourne should have evolved into an angry Kidman like character.

McGuillity should been WWE's Matt Morgan otherwise I can't think of a use for him.

Otunga should have won NXT then he could have been so arrogant, that he would have been this gneration's Rick Rude. I would have LOVE to have seen him act like Rick Rude & Batista rolled into one. Good looks and power.

Husky Harris would have been an interesting partner for Trevor Murdoch. I would love to see a modern bumpkin tag team or some kind.

Skip Sheffield should have tagged with Festus if he was still around. Would have been an interesting combo with room for Skip to shine.

Percy would make a better host like Abraham Washington if you ask me. I'd love to see him go aroung in red glasses and a blue suit inteviewing people with lots of personality.

Ted Dibiase should have NEVER joined Legacy. When Ted arrived at WWE, he made a huge impact by acting like he couldn't have been bought. But he ruined that image when he joined Legacy. He could have been a 75% face, 25% heel character due to his ego who won titles with great class. He could have faced off against Legacy and proved he was a man in his own class.

Mason Ryan should have a deeper backstory because there are WAY too many Batista clones in the industry.

Ezekial Jackson should have debuted as a face and should have been himself. He's an impressive twitterer and has a good love of God. I can see him playing a role similar to the Priest in Lost. He could talk about overcoming obstacles such a sin and becaming a fine inspriational wrestler who you just want to cheer on like Hulk Hogan.

Drew McIntyre should have been pushed faster than he was and should have walked all over everyone until Wade Barrett kicked the snot out of him.

Tyson Kidd should have remained with the rest of his posse because the Harts never did seem as appealing when separated. On his own, he would make an excellent TNA X Division wrestler, however.

Jack Swagger should have been a face in ECW and Christian should have been a heel from the start. Jack should have kept the title as long as he could. Then, when he tried to capture the World Title on Smackdown, he should have failed, grew bitter, then became a heel. Christian then should have captured the title from him, then Christian would have become a face as he would become a much more likable person. Essentially, ECW in reverse.

 

[legendkillerbsal]

THE CAREERS OF THESE GUYS WOULD BE FUN TO TWEAK BY MAKING THEM HOW WE WOULD WANT THEM.
ZIGGLER: I honestly like Ziggler the way he is now. It was good how he started with the I am perfection thing and gained the US Title. Now that he's had it for a while he changed the song to I'm here to show the world and is now a show off. Since he's likely to drop the title to Ryder, now he's gonna show the world that he can main event. Good stuff for Ziggler

DREW MCINTYRE: HOLY COW WHAT A BUST!! You sort of have to feel bad for the guy because he had the biggest push in the world by Vince himself and they didnt do anything with it. An IC Title run then Superstars. He should have used Vince to get up in the ranks and Title shots. Make him a teachers pet to Vince sort of and get huge heat by the crowd

JACK SWAGGER: Is the speech impediment real? Cuz if its not lose it and talk regular. Had his title run WAY to early and it didnt really put him over. I would have had him take the Kurt Angle route and be known for his amatuer background and his on mat skills. Theres a guy who could be in an Iron Man Match with good entertaining moves with somebody like Daniel Bryan.

DANIEL BRYAN: Should have been known for his Indy Circuit year and years of work. Be the underdog(which he is) but show out with WAY more crazy submissions and suplexes.

WADE BARRET: The Barret Barrage should have been the FIRST thing he did AFTER Nexus. Nexus was actually really cool to watch because something like that hadnt been done before. Although I would have had them be more dominant than they were. But Barret is finnaly getting that push after an IC Title run. Going the Classic route to getting a World Title.

UNCLE ZEKE: Shoulde have been in FCWto figure out a good character first.

MASON RYAN: I like what he's doing but havent seen him in 2 weeks. Need some destroyers back in the ring. Good old fashioned power moves and slams would be nice to see.

TED DIBIASE: Why didnt he become the Million Dollar Boy? Playboy type character and able to buy out people to fight FOR him and become a HUGE heel with money and ESPECIALLY with the economy now? HAVE HIM BEING SHOWN WASTING MONEY AND DAM WOULD THAT GET HEAT!!

DARREN YOUNG: OUT

HEATH SLATER: OUT

JUSTIN GABRIEL: WHY NOT FUED OR TEAM WITH EVAN BOURNE? THATS ALL I HAVE TO SAY.

SKIP SHEFFIELD: Eagerly awaiting RYBACK to see if he was worth picking up at all.

OTUNGA: OUT

HUSKY HARRIS: Should have only been hired to set up the ring.

ALEX RILEY: It would have been nice to see him go a Hunter Hearst Helmsly route but OBVIOUSLY modernized and not a royality thing. But have him be "priveleged in his upbringing" and spoiled like Hunter was.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

I'll be honest, I can only put so much blame on these guys for being paint on the wall boring, because let's be honest... creative doesn't really give them anything to work with.

Listen, you can say as many negatives as you want about Vince Russo, and I'll agree. But the one thing he always did well when he was in the WWE, is he gave EVERYONE a gimmick, and he was great at getting the undercard involved in the story. Go back to the boom period of the 80's and again... the undercard all had gimmicks and storylines. Today... well let's just look at the list the OP provided:

Heath Slater - no gimmick
Darren Young - no gimmick
David Otunga - actually one of the few with a definite gimmick, but it's written horribly. The lawyer gimmick should be great for cheap heat if nothing else (think Clarence Mason back in the 90's). Have the guy play a chickenshit heel who also threatens to sue anyone that crosses him outside the ring, while going out of his way to get in peoples faces. Make him real smarmy. Play off his marriage to Jennifer Hudson for an extra layer of smarm. The guys articulate, has a good look and is at least passable in the ring. His gimmick could easily be tweaked to make him the type of guy the fans are begging to see get his comeupance... but instead he's played off literally as a joke (Atlas laughing at him with no provocation last Monday)
Michael McGillicutty - no gimmick... seriously, Mr. Perfect's kid has no gimmick???
Husky Harris - no gimmick
Justin Gabriel - no gimmick
Skip Sheffield - apparently might be coming back with one, but up till now, again no gimmick
Titus O'Neill - who?
Ted Dibiase - they tried giving him one as the trust fund baby of the Million Dollar Man (natural), but then wrote it horribly. Sadly with this one, they already have the blueprint, but apparently don't know how to read it. Just have the kid come out every week, throw his money around, humiliate people and act above everyone. The global economy is in the tank. People don't know where their next meal is coming from. A spoiled rich kid rubbing his good fortune into the faces of those people... that's instant heat. How they messed that one up, I'll never know.
Mason Ryan - I guess he has a gimmick, but is juiced up babyface really that great of a gimmick?
Ezekial Jackson - Juiced up guy who yells a lot in the ring and is forgotten before his music stops playing... again not much of a gimmick
Drew McIntyre - well he had one, and a good one too. To me, he's an example of the short attention span of creative. Maybe there was a good reason to depush him, but then why keep him on the roster?
Tyson Kidd - no gimmick
Jack Swagger - doesn't belong here, because he does have a nice, defined gimmick, and is what he is, a good mid card heel. In 10 years time, he'll be one of the few on this list that will actually be remembered by fans. Most of these guys won't though, because what is there to remember?

These gimmicks don't even need to be elaborate. Was Crash Holly an elaborate gimmick? Was Rick "The Model" Martel elaborate? Seriously, just start by giving these guys a nickname, and some characteristic unique to them. It's really not that difficult, but creative for some reason only seems to put any effort into developing the characters of a handful, which doesn't work when they have so many hours of TV time each week to fill.

 

[JaylisJayP]

I used to be 100% in the "Daniel Bryan has no personality" club, but after they actually let him talk a few weeks ago on RAW, I have 100 percent changed my tune. I think he has fine mic skills and can really grow into something pretty good if they keep letting him get some air time.

 

[TheLastHorsemen]

I like this thread... underused wrestlers. Here's my "fantasy booking". (Keep in mind, I'm not messing with people who already have storylines, I'm finding a way to fit these guys in to the program as it exists today)

First, let's get rid of deadweight. Mason Ryan, Darren Young, Alex Riley, and Michael McGillicuty... gone. Riley had a chance after his feud with Miz, but they dropped the ball and it's going to be tough to get that heat back.

Otunga - The arrogant, educated guy gimmick. We've seen it a bunch of times, he has his place for now. The problem is, he'll never be taken seriously in the ring if he continues to job out. Maybe it's time to start pushing him towards a managerial role. If he's going to be Johnny Ace's go-to, he should have his own "2 Minute Warning" type insurance policy to enforce rules. This gives a program to:

Titus O'Neill and Ezekial Jackson. Seriously, who would want to mess with these two as a team? They'd be so intimidating and so imposing, they're a serious threat and have Otunga as their mouthpiece. They must only be used as a team.

Bring back the Cruiserweight Division. This could be a title featured on NXT, Superstars, and the occasional PPV. Now we suddenly have a purpose for Justin Gabriel, Tyson Kidd, Evan Bourne, Curt Hawkins, Kofi Kingston, Trent Barretta, and Yoshi Tatsu.

I think that Wade Barrett shouldn't be thrust into the title scene just yet. There's no room and he needs to be dominant and victorious once joining the scene. If anyone saw Drew McIntyre's match on Superstars against Mason Ryan, they may have noticed that his entrance and demeanor were AWESOME! He's so cerebral and seems unstable... let's explore that. Maybe after losing to Daniel Bryan, Barrett comes out to take him under his wing. Once the future, now nothing, Barrett could be that guy, both with presence, mic skills, and similar heelish tactics, to help bring credibility back to McIntyre. Eventually they'll split off, with Barrett joining the IC Title scene (maybe after Sheamus takes it from Cody Rhodes) and McIntyre going after the US Title.

Swagger's good, he just needs to get some credibility back.

Heath Slater... the "One Man Southern Rock Band"... someone previously said it best, he needs to be over the top. At no point have I ever gotten an indication that he's a rock band, through promo work, attire, nor actions. Give him that old Double J flashy attire and music and let him be a heel jobber, but at least with a gimmick so people care. Him playing with his hair all the time isn't enough.

I actually like the idea of Jinder Mahal and Ted DiBiase fueding, as two kin from wealthy families. Jinder's good, and he's going to get better. Perhaps he can bring that pompous heel character back out of Ted and together, we have a new version of Money Inc. It gives them both a storyline AND adds another heel tag team. I liked how Husky Harris was just a dirty, Blackjack type character. Not a heel or a face, just plays by his own rules. Maybe he can be Money Inc's gun for hire, a much more useful and credible Virgil who can beat people at any time.

Skip Sheffield... eh, we'll see. I'm sure Ryback is going to be a Brodus Clay/Prototype character, so I can't imagine anything new and exciting going on there.

I like Tyler Reks's look, but is he a surfer guy or an imposing caveman type? He's best suited for tag team wrestling regardless, so once they decide his gimmick, they can give him a tag partner to compliment him.


That's what I got, hope you guys like it.

 

[MPWFchairman]

This is a great thread! Now the first issue with these guys being underused is the brand split. Is there a brand spilt or not? With this new RAW supershow concept it is killing RAW's chance of building up any superstars below the upper mid card. Either have a brand split or get rid of a whole bunch of people and join the brands together.

Then as mentioned before give these men some GIMMICKS!!! For god sakes people are so boring these days. Every face smiles stupidly and every heel grunts and hits people with "impact". I mean look at what got people like Cena and Orton popular. A goddman gimmick!

And finally the WWE needs to rebuild a tag team division. It's a must! Fans have and will always like Tag Team wrestling.
A. It is something different to everything else that is going on in the show.
B. It's an opportunity to do something with people who aren't necessarily getting over as singles stars.

Diversity is key in wrestling and simply put creative needs to try a helluva lot harder.

 

[Pedigree1]

Excellent topic

Swagger:Guy is obviously very gifted i dont know why he cant be angle 2.0 he has the tools mat based wrestling and just a beast!!
Skip Sheffield:I cant wait to see the Ryback character i hope creative doesnt drop the ball on this one though!! Make him a monster heel..
Mason Ryan: what character does he have besides being a good guy
Drew Mcintyre:I loved loved his gimmick what the hell has happened to this guy? I havent seen him on TV for so long i check the rosters to see if he is even an active wresler. Creative messed this one up big time!!
Tyson Kidd:Hopeless unless they bring back the cruiserweight Division
Kofi:Very good and talented i think his character is ok for right now
Otunga:Uhhh drop the geeky lawyer gimmick

 

[d_henderson1810]

so i cant help but notice that there are SEVERAL superstars that seem to have so much potential but are in serious need of some personality, charisma...i dont know, SOMETHING to get them over the hump and to have fans take them seriously. some moreso than others, of course, but here is my list. feel free to add to it if you feel the need.

wade barrett and dolph ziggler...to a lesser extent. ziggler especially, has become one of my favorites as of late, but i almost feel like without vickie guerrero, i dont know if he would have the same heat to most fans as he does now. hes hilarious on twitter, i think he just needs to have some more mic time, and to have more impactful feuds than one with zack ryder.

also to a lesser extent...sheamus. time to go back to being a heel, dude. pounding your chest and yelling suddenly makes you a good guy? i dont get it. much more interesting as a bad guy.

now to the real list.

basically everyone that has ever been on NXT are boring as all hell.

-heath slater...who cares?
-darren young...who cares?
-david otunga...eh, getting there
-michael mcgillicuty...potential is there, but lawler was right...eh. and worst name ever.
-husky harris...what happened? and even if he comes back, and knowing who his father is/was...why should i care?
-justin gabriel...cool finisher but my god...some charisma please? who cares?
-skip sheffield...looked like a total goon even when he was around, when he comes back...why should i care?
-titus o neill...good god, who cares?

and most of all...daniel bryan. i know he has a strong internet following but come on, he is so boring. i compare him to a modern day lance storm. good, solid wrestler but boring beyond words. the money in the bank briefcase, even michael cole are doing all they can to try to make this guy relevant but im just not feeling it. if this guy co main events wrestlemania...i dont even know what im going to do. truthfully, im ordering it anyway because i always do, but he will be about the 17th biggest reason as to why i do.

others:

-ted dibiase...who would have thought he would be the one to fade into oblivion from legacy? they cant seem to figure out what to do with him, and i dont know that i could either.

-mason ryan...yeah, impressive physique but looking as much like batista as you can is not going to give you a personality. who cares?

-ezekiel jackson...again, impressive physique but just screaming during the whole match and scoop slamming some scrub isnt going to win you over with fans...plus his religious ramlbings on twitter? I HATE YOU.

-drew mcintyre...i like the guy, has the potential...but i cant even tell you the last time i saw him on my tv. from "chosen one" to "never been one." just goes to show you that just playing the "foreign heel" character isnt enough to keep you relevant (jinder mahal...)

tyson kidd...way above average in the ring. maybe pair him back up with natalya, i dont know. but obviously the random manager on superstars, and the 7 foot tall goon we saw, like, twice didnt help. is his size (or lack thereof) that much of a detractor?

jack swagger...his title reigns were a bit premature, i think we can all agree, but even having been associated with the 2 biggest heels in the company in michael cole and vickie guerrero hasnt helped him AT ALL over the last year or so.

i didnt mean to make this post as long as i did, but if youre still with me, i would love to see some ideas as to how to help some of these guys, because there is a lot of potential there to be tapped into, as well as some jobs to save. so have at it.

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1) I don't agree with Wade Barrett lacking charisma. I think he is very good on the mike, and a future WWE or World Champion. I just think his downfall was pushing him too early against top guys like Cena and Orton, meaning he had nowhere else to go. I also think that Barrett's accent makes him stand out on the mike more than most.

2) You mention Daniel Bryan not being great on the mike. But you know what, I can see Bryan being a bit of a Chris Benoit-type, in that he doesn't need to talk, but just instead lets his matches do the talking, by producing match of the night, week after week, like Benoit used to. Chris Benoit was relevant to an extent, despite lack of stickwork, because his work ethic in the ring was second to none. Well, I can see Bryan being a similar type in producing that.

3) Too much is made of stickwork. You say that the stars need to get you on side. But you in the end either like someone or you don't. I don't believe a wrestler's actions play as much of a part of winning fans as you seem to think. Look at John Cena. There are many on this board who decided to hate him, no matter what. It wouldn't matter if he cut promos like the Rock, wrestled like Kurt Angle, or was as cool as Randy Orton. The fact that children and women like Cena, and the fact that most wrestling fans are sheep who follow what everyone else in their peer group does, condemns him forever.

I will give you an example of what I mean. Many people here don't like John Morrison. They say it is because he lacks stickwork. I say it is because women like him, so many guys are jealous of him, and think he is a pretty boy. Morrison could be great on the mike, and it wouldn't make any difference, because people have decided to hate on him, and that's final.

If stickwork was the be-all-and-end-all, then why do people here hate the Miz so much? He is great on the mike, and one of the most charismatic guys on the roster. I could suspect that it is because people say he is not that great a worker, but since when did in-ring ability matter more than stickwork to the IWC? No, the Miz, despite being great on the mike, is seen as a company shill, like Cena is, and if you publicly endorse WWE, then you are seen as a suckhole to Vince McMahon, and not worthy of respect.

If you people value stickwork so much, go and watch a political debate or something. I am still interested in WRESTLING, you know, that dirty word that WWE and many people on here deride. I am more willing to shell out $40 to a PPV filled with top-class matches, than a in-ring debate between two guys. I am not against building storyline, but keep that for "Raw" and "Smackdown". I pay to see matches, not stickwork.

I think if some of you had your way, we would be seeing John Cena v The Rock have a promo war at "Talkamania 28".

What some of the above need is presence. If you don't have stickwork, you must have something else. Benoit had his great match quality, so did Bret Hart (who was never a strong promo guy). The Undertaker in the early years look awesome and intimidating, while Kane, when wearing a mask knew how to tilt his head just so to convey emotion.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Otunga works. he has a gimmick people hate and works it well.

The rest I more or less agree on. If a guy doesn't have personality, it's not the WWE's fault. they tried with Ted Dibiase, he's just not very good at character work. the rest may grow into it. If not, who cares, hire other people, this isn't a charity.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

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1) I don't agree with Wade Barrett lacking charisma. I think he is very good on the mike, and a future WWE or World Champion. I just think his downfall was pushing him too early against top guys like Cena and Orton, meaning he had nowhere else to go. I also think that Barrett's accent makes him stand out on the mike more than most.

2) You mention Daniel Bryan not being great on the mike. But you know what, I can see Bryan being a bit of a Chris Benoit-type, in that he doesn't need to talk, but just instead lets his matches do the talking, by producing match of the night, week after week, like Benoit used to. Chris Benoit was relevant to an extent, despite lack of stickwork, because his work ethic in the ring was second to none. Well, I can see Bryan being a similar type in producing that.

3) Too much is made of stickwork. You say that the stars need to get you on side. But you in the end either like someone or you don't. I don't believe a wrestler's actions play as much of a part of winning fans as you seem to think. Look at John Cena. There are many on this board who decided to hate him, no matter what. It wouldn't matter if he cut promos like the Rock, wrestled like Kurt Angle, or was as cool as Randy Orton. The fact that children and women like Cena, and the fact that most wrestling fans are sheep who follow what everyone else in their peer group does, condemns him forever.

I will give you an example of what I mean. Many people here don't like John Morrison. They say it is because he lacks stickwork. I say it is because women like him, so many guys are jealous of him, and think he is a pretty boy. Morrison could be great on the mike, and it wouldn't make any difference, because people have decided to hate on him, and that's final.

If stickwork was the be-all-and-end-all, then why do people here hate the Miz so much? He is great on the mike, and one of the most charismatic guys on the roster. I could suspect that it is because people say he is not that great a worker, but since when did in-ring ability matter more than stickwork to the IWC? No, the Miz, despite being great on the mike, is seen as a company shill, like Cena is, and if you publicly endorse WWE, then you are seen as a suckhole to Vince McMahon, and not worthy of respect.

If you people value stickwork so much, go and watch a political debate or something. I am still interested in WRESTLING, you know, that dirty word that WWE and many people on here deride. I am more willing to shell out $40 to a PPV filled with top-class matches, than a in-ring debate between two guys. I am not against building storyline, but keep that for "Raw" and "Smackdown". I pay to see matches, not stickwork.

I think if some of you had your way, we would be seeing John Cena v The Rock have a promo war at "Talkamania 28".

What some of the above need is presence. If you don't have stickwork, you must have something else. Benoit had his great match quality, so did Bret Hart (who was never a strong promo guy). The Undertaker in the early years look awesome and intimidating, while Kane, when wearing a mask knew how to tilt his head just so to convey emotion.

get off your fucking 'WRESTLING' high horse. It's ALWAYS been about character. Personality isn't limited to stick work. It's about making a believable character. That's what it's always been about. People BELIEVED Harley Race was a badass. He has that kind of charisma, he made people believe in him. Sammartino took every italian-american in the easter corridor and made them BELIEVE he was fighting for him. Without charisma, neither one of those guys get over.

God damnit I fucking hate people who seperate stick and ring work and act like they aren't correlated. Benoit had a TON of charisma. You believed he would smother your kid and strangle your wife. Bret hart worked the 'technical" master as much as a gimmick as he did actually pulling it off in the ring.

I dislike John Morrison because he does random flippity moves for no reason, doesn't sell for shit, never has a coherant match unless he's being led, and looks like he's a scared frat boy trying really REALLY hard to play a cool character (hides behind bling and glasses).

People seperate mic skills and in ring work. Most of you guys think that more=better. Talking louder, faster, saying more doesn't make you a better talker. Doing more moves faster and bigger doesn't make you better in the ring.

Look at Orton. Talks slow, wrestles slow. It's because it fits his character. He's a badass. He doesn't do things on anyone else's pace. He doesn't have to tell you he's a badass. He'll walk to the ring as slowly as he wants, stare a hole through you, tell you he's going to hit you with the "r....K....O" like he likes to say, then kick you, stalk you, ddt you, stalk you, powerslam you, stalk you, RKO you. It all fits.

That's what it boils down to. In the carnival days, you had to have personality to get people in the door and make them believe you were who you said you were. In the 1950s, you had to make people believe you could beat their ass. In the 1980s, you had to make people believe you were a superhero/supervillain.

Like Al Snow (who knows more about wrestling than you) said "you can't reinvent the wheel. You can put rims on it and make it more sophisticated, but at the end of the day it's still the wheel; and wrestling is still wrestling". It's not different than it ever was.

 

[dashingperfection]

and most of all...daniel bryan. i know he has a strong internet following but come on, he is so boring. i compare him to a modern day lance storm. good, solid wrestler but boring beyond words. the money in the bank briefcase, even michael cole are doing all they can to try to make this guy relevant but im just not feeling it. if this guy co main events wrestlemania...i dont even know what im going to do. truthfully, im ordering it anyway because i always do, but he will be about the 17th biggest reason as to why i do.

Thank christ!

daniel bryan is so fucking boring!!
i couldnt care less how good you are at wrestling or how long youve been indy wrestling.. YOURE BORING. i want to fast forward through his promos, its like blah blah blah, i earned the right for this, blah blah everybody taps.
it makes me not want to watch you in the ring, evry match i want to see you lose. i was so happy when mark henry killed him in the cage.

i know he needs time to get better, but people who think he is amazing and should be world champion anytime soon have to be kidding. i dont care whether he is face or heel, i cant see him being in the main event picture with mark henry, john cena, cm punk, big show, triple h, randy orton etc. and getting clean wins at big pay-per-views.

 

[Suibon]

Let's see: With the ex-NXT/Nexus guys who aren't Daniel Bryan and Wade Barrett, well, there's Otunga, there's... urk, Justin Gabriel, and there's the rest. Otunga is at least trying (being a smartypants adviser to a sinister heel GM is appealing), and Gabriel is at least capable and given some time. The rest are the equivalent of ice and are just as over.

Then there's Daniel Bryan and Wade Barrett. I'm not totally sold on them - Wade Barrett in an adequate mic worker and little else, Daniel Bryan is a great ring technician and little else - but at least they're good at playing the part. Whether that would translate into anything solid is entirely up to them.

T_d D_B__s_ _s _ h_nk. If he becomes a midcarder by himself at any time for the rest of his career, that would be a mind-blowing logic-breaking achievement. Same with big Zeke and Mason Ryan - all former members of known stables, yet gifted gifts of boredom to go along with the rippled abs and bounteous musculature.

Drew McIntyre... the sooner everyone forgets he exists, the better.

Tyson Kidd... he was trained by Shawn Michaels. Related to Natalya. Former member of the Hart Foundation. Great seller, great wrestler. Zero charisma. End.

Jack Swagger? If the best heel non-wrestler who isn't named Michael Cole can't get you over, then you're a lost, forever playing second fiddle to Dolph Ziggler.

 

[bigdaddyb673]

I couldn't agree more with these choices but would add Brodus Clay to that list I just don't see or feel any reason to give him a push. He was ok with Del Rio but I don't know if I could buy him being so unstoppable with Henry (can't beleive I said that), Kane and Show, like someone else said it's monster heel overload minus Show of course because he's a face currently.

Henning is the only one I see with a shot to be big but for God's sake let him be a Henning and not some lame creative gimmick or a Mr. Perfect copy

While I'm on a tangent, let these kids learn to promo without everything scripted...Scripts kill flow and creativity, Foley, Piper, Rock, & Cena are a few that come to mind that if they were scripted it would've been the death of them. JR had a brain fart Monday and he ad libbed the most memorable lines in broadcast history.

 

[giblet55]

I don't know why, but I always saw Drew McIntyre as a dangerous character that was like every cool villain in a movie that you know you're supposed to hate, but he's so cool. I've always felt like his finisher was too bland for his style and he should have had some sort of quick attack finisher and possibly a submission finisher. There is such a lack of good submission finishers in the WWE. I can only think of Punk and Bryan off of the top of my head...and Cena doesn't count!

 

[giblet55]

I couldn't agree more with these choices but would add Brodus Clay to that list I just don't see or feel any reason to give him a push. He was ok with Del Rio but I don't know if I could buy him being so unstoppable with Henry (can't beleive I said that), Kane and Show, like someone else said it's monster heel overload minus Show of course because he's a face currently.

Well said...can we please see a funny Big Show comeback? Now the one where he steals gimmicks, but let him be the goofy giant like he is in reality, until someone pisses him off. I always thought it would be unique to do a love story between Big Show and a diva, where Show is himself in the ring, but real shy and nervous around this particular diva. Eventually someone, an up and or group of up and comers gets sick of it, and takes out the diva. Show unleashes the monster and annihilates them. Then have the match at a ppv where show takes on three of these guys, and the diva returns to lowblow one of the up and comers to help Show win. Show looks like a monster fighting off three men, shows off a humorous and different side of show with the diva, also gives three up and comers a decently long storyline to be involved in....just a thought.

Segments could include:

Show setting up a gift for the diva that backfires and messes with one of the up and comers.

Show taking her on a date and backing his car into an up and comer because he's nervous.

Just random segments where Show causes harm to an up and comer because he's nervous and makes mistakes.

Can even have segments in the back between another heel and face where they say they're happy for him, but the heel says it's annoying as hell.

Just ideas...

 

[Mustang Sally]

In many ways, this topic flies in the face of those fans who believe that "the company doesn't push you.....you push yourself!"

Plainly, it's not true. The only way you get anywhere in WWE is if management is behind you and instructs Creative to give you something to run with.

Witness the pushes of Dolph Ziggler, Cody Rhodes and Daniel Bryan. This thread mentions numerous wrestlers who possess (or have shown) no personality. Yet, look at these three. What personality is shown by any of them? They are good wrestlers, but so are most of the guys on the list. The difference is that management has given these three guys significant things to do. Even so, none of them are balls of fire in the personality department.

If you accept the notion that Dolph, Cody & Daniel have no more personality than the rest of the guys on the list, then why are they being pushed to the moon while the others aren't? If your answer is that the three lucky guys DO have more personality, I say that's because of their pushes, not their individual performing gifts. Nobody is going to argue that Daniel Bryan is a dynamo on the mic, are they? Yet, look how they're featuring him.

If you want to argue that the three chosen ones are better wrestlers than the others, that's a valid point of discussion. But the topic being discussed here how to regard guys who have no personality.

Frankly, how they determine who gets ahead and who doesn't is the million dollar question.

 

[The Poster]

i suppose i should have been more clear in my first post. i didnt mean to throw all or some of these guys into a stable, it was really just me complaining that WWE has way too many good talents that have shown little to no personality or charisma, and should be a lot better than they are. sure, some of it can be blamed on creative and writers, but most of the blame goes to THEM for being boring.

my actual idea for a stable, would be to pair guys like mcintyre, curt hawkins, tyler reks, maybe a couple others. have them form a stable where they come out and decimate a top star or 2, similar to nexus when they first debuted, and complain about lack of tv time, and that they are better than everyone gives them credit for. let us see what they can do in the spotlight.

obviously the days of the really corny gimmicks (repo man, papa shango, boogeyman more recently) are long over, but let some of these guys have a little time to develop THEMSELVES, and see what happens.

ps john morrison is one of the more overrated talents in recent history. the miz was right ALL ALONG, he WAS the marty jannetty of their tag team. the guy botches every move in the book, and gave no reason whatsoever as to why anyone should care about him. he, as well as the WWE, should be EMBARASSED about survivor series. zack ryder should have been in that match, especially being in NYC, and the crowd let that be known. sorry, but a couple nice spiderman like moves at the royal rumble was cool...for like 2 minutes. then i went back to not giving a shit.

 

[The Poster]

sally, i disagree with what you said. its not ALWAYS the company. we all know vince has a thing for big guys, but zack ryder is the exact opposite. hes got personality, hes got charisma, and hes got in ring skills. but if it wasnt for the FANS, he would not be where he is today. as evidenced even by survivor series, WWE seemed to be chomping at the bit to not give this guy a shot...but hes entertaining, the fans want to see him, and even vince himself can not deny it anymore. so hes getting his 15 minutes of fame. and hes using his time extremely wisely. kudos to him (and the fans) for that.

 

[terrylee]

Daniel Bryan's charisma problem can be fixed very simply: Turn him heel.

Anyone who's seen his indy work as a heel will agree with me that he's fantastic. From the way he talks when he's a heel, to the way he holds himself. Even little things like when he'd lock in a submission hold, his victim would grab the ropes, the ref would start counting and he'd snap "I HAVE 'TIL FIVE!".

Example of his ring work as a heel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VnC3bwvf5c