The NEW Unified US-IC Champ: Ziggler or Bryan? | WrestleZone Forums

The NEW Unified US-IC Champ: Ziggler or Bryan?

TheAbsolute1

Fuck Rep
Two months ago at the bragging rights PPV, there was a feud going on between the Intercontinental Champion Dolph Ziggler and the United States Champion Daniel Bryan.

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Now as we all remember, Bryan bested Ziggler in 3 matches but this was a non-title feud. This was around the time when there was alot of buzz about unifications so many people obviously thought that this would be a unification feud, but it wasn't. The feud was great, but it seemed like it ended to early even though there were a full series of matches. I believe that this feud will soon reignite but this time, both titles will be on the line.

So my question is, who would be a more fitting champion?

On one hand you've got Daniel Bryan. Veteran in the ring, wrestling in ROH, PWG, IWGP and so on. His in ring skill is phenomenal. He knows how to put his and his opponents moves over with ease, and can fake an injury like a professional drama queen(not an insult). Only down side about Bryan is that he's not an interesting champion outside of the ring.

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Bryan of course wins that match and there is both an example of how well he works in the ring and how well he can fake an injury, which is important.

On the other hand, you have a young courageous kid, great mic skill and even greater skill inside the ropes. Is he as good a wrestler as Bryan? Not even close. But if you add his fantastic work on the mic to his in-ring prowess, you've got yourself a great champion.

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There is a great example of Ziggler's ability to put over his opponent, steal a victory and use his manager to the best of her ability. He's my choice on who the first unified US-IC champion should be because he's great in the ring, plays his role perfectly, and is able to sell the surprise win.

Who do you think should be the first US-IC champion? Bryan or Ziggler?

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IF they both still have their titles by the time the unification match gets here, I'm going to go with Ziggler. Simply because I think he'll be around longer to brag about it. Bryan is obviously the better wrestler, but I don't see him staying with the company as long as Ziggler. Granted, the E can be ridiculously unpredictable at times, I think they want the title on a guy who’s only going to be there the next 4, maybe 5 years, if that. So I'm going to go with Dolph, he's made it from the Spirit Squad till now, he's like a WWE Success hero lolz
 
Daniel Bryan will most likely end up unifying these two belts. He's been on a roll from WWE creative for a while, and he's most likely higher regarded within the company than Dolph Ziggler is.

However, I'd actually rather want to see Dolph unifying the two. Because while Bryan is definitely a better talent, I see a bigger future for Dolph Ziggler. He has a size advantage against Bryan, and he has a great look that could easily elevate him further than the mid-card, which is where I see Bryan being stuck in a Benoit like position.

Dolph is most likely the guy that could benefit mostly from unifying the belts. Not just because of the very fact that he clearly could bring a lot of bragging power to having unified it. But also because of the very fact that Dolph seems to be on the verge of breaking into a proper upper mid-carder. He has the ability to wrestle great matches with a lot of guys on the roster, and he has the ability to make people as well as himself look good in the ring. However he's not completely over yet. Being the unified champion of the mid-card could do wonders for him, where as I believe it will absolutely kill him if he looses the belt right now where he's being on the verge of breaking into the top.

But yeah, Bryan is most likely gonna win it because WWE obviously seems to have a bigger backing for Bryan than Dolph.
 
im not the biggest fan of ziggler but the kid does have potential. he has good ring presense and the mouth (vickie) to back it up with. his in ring work can use a little bit of practice. give him 2 years and lets see where he is. my vote is that he is still in the mid cards. now bryan on the other hand is fantastic in the ring, has a more impressive ring pressence but is boring on the mic. and in the wwe that is more important than your inring ability. on the subject of which of the two will unify the titles, dolph ziggler. a few reasons: vickie, wwe likes to give young heels more opprotunities than young faces, and wwe likes to screw people over for long fueds.
 
Well, neither man would in fact be the first Unified IC/US Champ; Edge did that during the Invasion angle of '01, defeating US Champ Test to do so...

Back to the matter at hand, DB would benefit much better than Ziggles, as stated by others above. Dolph has had the ability to become relevant after being buried (albeit w/tremendous showings) during the '09 IC title chase w/Jomo and Mysterio. He lost PPV after PPV shot but managed to work his way back up...I imagine this could happen to him a couple more times and he would recover from it better than DB. Either way, they are both excellent cantidates to do so if thats how Creative decides to book the titles and merge them. I am loving the roll DB is on, and hope to see him do so. Ziggles has more opportunity to strive on SD without a title, whereas DB needs it a little more to stay in the fold on RAW.
 
hopefully none of them because i dont want to see the IC and US title unified like some on here want, maybe it's because i like two mid-card titles and two world titles. i think WWE HAD to unify the Tag titles and Diva's titles because of the lack of tag teams and lack of great women's wrestlers, but they have a ton of talent with mid-carders and having two world titles helps push young talent.
 
hopefully none of them because i dont want to see the IC and US title unified like some on here want, maybe it's because i like two mid-card titles and two world titles. i think WWE HAD to unify the Tag titles and Diva's titles because of the lack of tag teams and lack of great women's wrestlers, but they have a ton of talent with mid-carders and having two world titles helps push young talent.

What you don't get is that by unifying the IC and US titles, it pushes the holder even further than they would be if the titles were separate. The champ would be able to feud with whoever from whatever brand, it would push the mid-carders alot faster and get them alot more over than seperate titles do. That's why I'm gunning for Ziggler. I see him as a future WWE champion, him winning the US right now would give him a huge push and maybe even give him main event status.
 
If the titles do get unified then Daniel Bryan will unify them, but I'm predicting he'll then fued with Ziggler and in the end the title will reach Ziggler *if there is a unification that is*.

I'm probably a bit biased here though because I imagine Ziggler to me a proper WHC/WWE champion when he gets into the ME, but I see Danielson getting "veteran" status a lot faster. Danielson probably deserves to be in the ME, he's fantastic in-ring and is a good role model if they make him a babyface, but Ziggler gets attention a lot easier than Danielson. *<-- can't stop writing Danielson >.<*
 
The chance that we could see another match between these two makes me salivate. The three matches that they put on were some of the best matches I have seen in ages. They have great chemistry and tell a great story together. To address the topic more directly:

As Dr. Awesome pointed out, the IC and (WCW) US titles were unified at another point, when Edge beat Test in '01. Edge won and was actually the US champion, not IC. Not sure how they determine which belt stays and which goes in such a case without rechristening it as something different. Anyone know? I have seen the match itself on DVD, but don't have any knowledge of how they made the determination, or rather, justified it, as obviously the intent was to get rid of the non-WWE titles.

In DBD we've got arguably one of the top five ring workers in the company and someone the crowd has really gotten behind. They sure do love their underdogs. Now, I do not wish to take a single damned thing away from him, but--strictly in terms of his recent success in WWE--he owes a lot to Michael Cole and The Miz (especially). The storyline on NXT garnered him a lot of support as someone the crowd wants to see succeed (those who didn't already know who he was, mind you). Let's face it, until the bell rings, he looks like a jobber and his mic skills are not exactly stellar. It was hard to see at the time, but pairing him with Miz was a stroke of genius. Not only did you have one of the best mic workers in wrestling being a raging dick to the guy, but you also had Cole, who to that point had been a neutral/face commentator, criticizing every aspect of DBD's character, lifestyle and claiming that he had no talent even as we were watching him display it. The result? It's like what Piper said about WM I: people weren't just watching to see Miz and Bryan, they were watching to see Bryan kick Miz's head in. Fast forward to DBD's return at SummerSlam, and the feud is back on, with Bryan ultimately winning the US title from Miz in a match that stole the show at NOC. The submissions count anywhere match elevated him further (and also made Morrison look great), and after a glorified squash match against Sheamus and a decent rematch the following week, it was the mini-feud with Ziggler that really cemented him in the card and made him a believable champion.

Not only did they have arguably THE PPV match of the year, but they went at it on Raw the next night AND that week's Smackdown. To me, this says that WWE is very high on both of these guys to the point where they wanted everyone, whether it be PPV buyers or people who prefer one show or the other or just WWE fans in general to see how awesome they were capable of being. Whether the TV bookings were a direct reaction to the PPV match or if they were planned ahead of time is anyone's guess, though. You can make a better case for people knowing who Ziggler is, given that Smackdown guys do occasionally show up on Raw, but NXT does not have high viewership, even in it's first season (it's tailed off even further since then to the point where it's not even on TV anymore), but this is what got the remainder of the crowd behind Bryan and also made him look like a believable champion, with him not only looking great in the matches, but winning all three.

Ziggler's rise has been more steady. He's paid his dues to the point of surviving The Spirit Squad and still stuck around, and has been involved in a number of high profile losses on PPV and TV in the hunt for the title over the past year and a half. He is, IMO, another of the top five ring workers in WWE, and while I do disagree with the OP that his mic work is "fantastic", he's competent and occasionally cuts a good promo (his speech on Friday about being a champion while Kofi is just a contender was a nice one). Clearly, they want this guy to do big things to the point of realizing this as his only weak spot and came up with the "relationship of convenience" angle with the perpetual heat magnet in Vicki. It's amusing that a guy who is as good looking as he is would settle for someone who isn't exactly gorgeous just because she has power and was capable of giving him an easier path to greatness. It hits home with everyone watching: this guy will do whatever it takes to win to the point of seemingly "lowering himself" romantically in order to acquire and hold onto a piece of gold. It has done great things to get him over as he has continuously taken the "cheap" route in DQ losses and countouts, pulling guys' feet off the ropes and grabbing tights to secure a pin. As a result, he has held onto the title for 4-5 months and just when you thought it was in jeopardy, he's somehow managed to hold onto it. Even with the stip in place that he'd lose the title via DQ or countout, he pulled off a clean win against Kofi. He is as believable of a heel champion as there has been in ages, and he embodies his gimmick very well in the process, both in and out of the ring.

We are at the point now where neither guy losing his respective title would bury him. Ziggler has proven that he is relevant and capable of doing big things, while Bryan has tremendous crowd support and a score of 3-0 in the previous feud with Ziggler. Obviously, booking post-loss is what ultimately makes or breaks the loser, but it doesn't seem likely that either of them would fade. Ziggler could be freed up to do other angles further up the card and DBD is always going to be able to put on outstanding matches to maintain his following and sway others toward it. While the latter isn't really going to be able to develop a feud on the mic, when he's in the ring, people don't give a shit about that: they just want to enjoy the show. The backbone of his path is as a guy who kicks ass and takes names between the ropes but comes off as an average guy who doesn't seem to have a great chance of succeeding. This is the sort of thing that the crowd loves, and he can ride that excellently for a very long time. I see Ziggler as someone capable of elevating himself much more easily and a loss would enable him to do so, backed up with the credibility of having had such a successful IC title reign, and he's perfectly capable of either staying where he is or going back down to a future mid-card title feud without losing a step. Bryan, on the other hand, has more to gain by holding onto the title, but I feel as though he's cemented his place as a prominent member of the mid-card on Raw. You could argue that Ziggler has more to gain in getting himself further bragging rights at having unified the titles, but you could also argue that Bryan has more to lose in that draping the belt over his shoulder when he's not in the ring makes an otherwise uninspiring guy look more relevant and credible. Don't forget that anyone just tuning in who doesn't know what's going on has the initial thought of "this guy is the champion, so he must be good". What could be a deal breaker is the 3-0 score. I could easily see Ziggler winning for that reason alone.

Bottom line: I don't see Bryan's luck changing without the belt, so long as they still give him TV time, and though I don't imagine Ziggler would lose ground if he lost, he's got more to gain in terms of a foundation on which to built a main event caliber future. For that reason, I'd like Ziggler to win. The feud would likely last three matches, as seems to be the trend. What could be the likeliest scenario is that Ziggler wins, maybe not cleanly, cheats to retain and screws up in a third match to bring the gold back to Bryan. At that point, Ziggler has the credentials as the guy who unified the titles, but ultimately is free to move on to bigger and better things, while a cheap loss for Bryan puts the world behind him yet again, with the ultimate result being that he comes out on top and has further justification for where he is on the card. Regardless, I'd love to see these guys wrestle each other again.
 
Based on what we've seen thus far, I think that Daniel Bryan would be the one to unify the titles, if the WWE does eventually intend to do so and both of these guys are still champions when the time comes.

The WWE has been solidly behind Daniel Bryan really since he first showed up in the WWE. The first season of NXT, generally speaking, was woven around Bryan as the central character and fan favorite. After his first match with Chris Jericho on NXT, Bryan was pretty much over with the WWE audience because they saw that this guy can be just plain damn fun to watch. Even though he didn't win NXT, he was still over even though he was booked as the underdog that lost every match. As far as Daniel Bryan being fired, I still think that was a work on the part of the WWE to get the goat of the IWC. It got net fans and average fans talking about Daniel Bryan almost on a constant basis and the release had none of the usual markings of a WWE firing. There were no internet rants against WWE from Bryan and the WWE allowed him to work the indy scene as long as they weren't on national television, whereas the 90 day no compete clause had always included any other company before. At any rate, he makes his return and quickly becomes a star on Raw.

Bryan's rise to stardom in the WWE has been a much faster and more consistent one than Ziggler and that makes me think that the company has more overall confidence in Bryan than Ziggler. I like Dolph Ziggler, I think he's improved loads since he won the IC title and his matches with the likes of Daniel Bryan, Kofi Kingston & MVP during his time as champ have been great.

Everyone knows that Daniel Bryan can wrestle, that's obvious. If the WWE also takes some time to make him into something of a more well rounded character, which I think could be the point of this thing with the Bella Twins, then I think his chances of potentially unifying the WWE's mid-card titles goes up even more.

Personally, I think that Bryan being the one to do so would give the new unified title a much stronger and more legit start. A lot of eyes would be on the new unified champ and I think the WWE knows that Daniel Bryan is capable of handling the load.
 
Bryan will lose the unification match to put over ziggler. But he will get the IC title the next ppv. I do not see the WWE retiring the IC title as it has a pretty prestigious history. And since the US title did not originate in the WWE, Vince's ego would not want another company's (even if defunct) championship to be better than his.
 
I would think that Daniel Bryan will be the one unifying the two. I think he got a strong vote of confidence from the company with his 3 victories in one week over Ziggler, and Bryan's lost exactly once in 2 months. He seems to be the higher regarded of the two.

Im not saying this will be the right decision, in fact, I think it may be counterproductive. Bryan will have a fantastic career within the mid-card, and maybe a lifetime achievement WWE Championship win. But Ziggler has the size advantage and the look that could elevate him into the main event. Unifying the titles would be a huge stepping stone for him and a bump for his career.

Dolph is most likely the guy that could benefit mostly from unifying the belts. Not just because of the very fact that he clearly could bring a lot of bragging power to having unified it. But also because of the very fact that Dolph seems to be on the verge of breaking into a proper upper mid-carder. He has the ability to wrestle great matches with a lot of guys on the roster, and he has the ability to make people as well as himself look good in the ring. However he's not completely over yet. Being the unified champion of the mid-card could do wonders for him, where as I believe it will absolutely kill him if he looses the belt right now where he's being on the verge of breaking into the top.

Ziggler seems to be the one who would benefit more from unifying the titles as well. Bryan is already extremely over, but is he going to advance further then the mid-card? I doubt it. Dolph seems to be one big match away from breaking into the upper mid-card/main event, and that win over Bryan to unify the titles could very well be that match. Just like Bryan, he has the ability to have a good to great match with just about anybody, and he looks good in the ring with just about anyone. But he's not totally over as a heel, and a huge loss such as dropping the IC title could plummet him back into the mid-card ranks ala Kofi Kingston. So it would do more for him to be the one who unifies the belts then it would hurt Bryan to not do so.

That being said, I don't even know if I see Ziggler getting out of TLC with the IC Title, and I see Bryan holding the US Title for a long time. Also, I think Bryan is viewed considerably higher in the eyes of WWE creative, so he will likely be the one to unify the belts.
 

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