The Kurt Angle Experiment

[Shocky]

So we are now 6 months into the Kurt Angle era of TNA wrestling.

What are your thoughts and opinions on Kurts Impact on the company? Do you think it was a significant move, or has it been a bad move on Kurts part? Or do you think that the jury is still out, and a year is a more fair assesment of the situation?

Personally to this point, I think Kurt Angle in TNA is a failure. Don't get me wrong, it's done wonders for Kurt Angle in the ring. There is a new fire in him that the WWE didn't let burn.

I think it didn't have the ratings impact that TNA wanted, and yes, it was a bad pun. A lot of the IWC thought this would be the move that shifted a little of the spotlight over to TNA, but the ratings have stayed consistant, but haven't raised. I think it was a good personal move for Angle and a goo dmove for the TNA roster, but the results haven't been there. All in all, I think the jury is still out, but until TNA gets 2 hours and more exposure, there just another company.

 

[A.J.]

I have to agree with you Shockmaster on the fact that Kurt Angle in TNA has been a failure. Just looking at what he has brought it really isnt much from ratings to even the overall impace on the company. He hasnt gotten even wrestlersto jump ship and come over like he thought he could do. His only decent matches have came againt Joe. The ratings have been where they have been for the last year so he made no mark there so he really just a great wrestler to have on the company but not much else

It did pro long his carrer i believe and he seems to be wanting to do his best night and night out and give help to the others.

In all TNA needs 2 hours and on another network to carry their show as there has been talks about a network that hasnt had wrestling be interested. I think that could be good or bad depends on what happens with that. As of now he is just a good wrestler on the subpar wrestling compnay and that pretty much as it stands right now. But hey only time can tell if it ever equal success.

 

[GreekAngell]

I have to agree with you Shockmaster on the fact that Kurt Angle in TNA has been a failure. Just looking at what he has brought it really isnt much from ratings to even the overall impace on the company. He hasnt gotten even wrestlersto jump ship and come over like he thought he could do. His only decent matches have came againt Joe. The ratings have been where they have been for the last year so he made no mark there so he really just a great wrestler to have on the company but not much else

It did pro long his carrer i believe and he seems to be wanting to do his best night and night out and give help to the others.

In all TNA needs 2 hours and on another network to carry their show as there has been talks about a network that hasnt had wrestling be interested. I think that could be good or bad depends on what happens with that. As of now he is just a good wrestler on the subpar wrestling compnay and that pretty much as it stands right now. But hey only time can tell if it ever equal success.

Drofthuganomics1; and Shockmaster where do you get off saying Kurt Angle has not done much for TNA He is trying to get wrestlers to jump ship and join TNA he is already talking to BIG SLOW and CHRIS JERICHO but if they take forever to make a decision where is it Kurts fault! He is also trying to get GOLDBERG and honestly if Dixie chick Carter can deliver a contract to Steve Borden for 500,000$ to STING they can sure give out same contracts to BILL GOLDBERG and CHRIS JERICHO who stated that last year he wanted a similar contract but to me these wrestlers are all about profitship which is frustrating
whatever happened to Sportsmanship I don't seeANGLE, NASH,CHRISTIAN or SCOTT STEINER complaining about money do I ? So why them?
Where the hell is DDP he was in TNA and where did he go now? Bring him in already lol
but honestly TNA got capital they can get new talent already TNA just are not doing it cause they don't want too so they got to prove it to themselves as well as the wrestling fans out there or they ll be bought off from WWE and we don't want another WCW gone do we????

 

[GreekAngell]

SHOCKMASTER your Kurt ANgle subject to answer he did a lot for TNA cause their ratings are slightly higher but stayed consistent Maybe if TNA moves their ass and get new talent such as Chris Jericho and Big Show! They arein business! I say get Vampiro to sign with TNA and have the feuds with STING start all over again! WHy not get Abdullah the Butcher he still wrestles oversease lol !!
BUT TNA doesn't!!!

 

[Shadowmancer]

You said it yourself they are up, but not to the extent that people thought it would. Even though there was the "Dream" match in Joe/Angle, there is barely any increase in viewings in the US. Chris Jericho may be going back to WWE for all we know he could go to TNA, he could just do a few appearances in RoH, nothing has been decided at all. As for Paul Wright he has some project that he is working on. that we will find out later in the year. From what I understand Vampiro has gone back to wrestle in Mexico.
As to the topic from the PoV of Kurt Angle being a success in TNA, this is still at the point you can't really say because he hasn't been the holder of the strap, you won't know his effect on the Company until he holds the strap for the company, this won't happen for the next few months but it will be when you can judge whether Kurt Angle is a success or not.

 

[Kasey]

In certain aspects I think Angle has been a dud. His in-ring production is as good as ever, but it's irritating to me that some of the booking has been completely ******ed in regards to some of the people he's faced in the ring. Namely two of TNA's franchise players: Styles and Abyss. Abyss was the first guy to job to Angle, and it wasn't even in very epic fashion. Styles' match with him was a damn joke that went all of five minutes! I want Angle to be in epic encounters if he's booked with these guys, not a Russo fuc**up like I witnessed on Impact in the last six months. In terms of his mic work and wrestling, he's still firing on all eight cylinders. I just wish that he wouldn't be booked to completely demolish two of the biggest guys in TNA history and look pretty much untouchable (with Joe being the exception). It invalidates everything that TNA went through in the years leading up to 2006. The other thing, now that hindsight is effectively 20/20. I wouldn't have set Angle in a program with Joe right away. It should've been saved for the next B.F.G. event, and it should've been for the title. Now that they've had a series of matches already, the feud has been done, and the respective load it carried has already been blown. The other thing I don't like is how Angle reportedly instantly has influence in the locker room with regards to direction of the company. He hasn't even been there a year and he was reportedly throwing a "Pig Pen" gimmick Sabin's way. Sabin has been in that company busting his ass for a hell of a lot longer than Angle has (regardless of what Angle did up north). If this isn't the case, then I retract this statement. If it is, dig your head out of your ass, Kurt. He also talked in interviews about getting The Big Show to come over (and Hulk f**#$ng Hogan?!?). LAME. Show is old, slow, and untalented. He was only ever put in the business because Hogan liked his circus factor and had to grace us with Wight's presence.

 

[Dj Martyn]

I think Kurt in Tna has actually been nothing but good, i got too see Joe/angle which was great, i got to see kurt in Tna and i didnt have to search through wwe tv to find kurt matches, mostly with shit opponents anyway.

I agree with kasey in that yea he has been pushed as unbeatable with joe been the exception. But i dont know if it was a completely bad thing as it sets it up for a match in the future, if AJ was to pin Kurt on ppv, then it would be a complete shock.

As for benefit of TNA, ratings wise....I think the problem was Kurt is a great wrestler, and a solid character...but he is a not a Cena/Batista/Big show/Undertaker/Austin/Rock etc larger than life character...(if that makes sense) there is a distinct difference between the WWE's "Wrestling audience" people that tune in for the likes of benoit angle, london and kendrick, edge etc and the wrestling, then there is the WWE's "Sports entertainment" audience that tune in for the Characters and the fights are secondary, Kurt fell into the Wrestling fans book not the sports entertainment fans book. and i hate to generalise but wrestling fans that already tune in to Feds for great matches and better in ring action, probably already watched TNA.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

So the fact that the company hasnt changed since the arrival of Angle might look like a dissapointment. But I think he's done just fine. The should have held of his match's with Joe in my opinion. He was the top guy in the company so it was always downhill from there. The fact he hasnt made such an impact is down to the poor booking as of late. You cant blame TNA for some of the match's they've put him in though. The Steiner match would have been a dream match if Steiner could still work. And I understand them doing Joe/Angle straight away. They were propably under the impression that he might not last long in the company.

I dont think he's been a huge success, but one man wont make TNA into as big a company as WWE.

 

[Shocky]

This thread is not meant to be a knock on Angle at all, but moreso a knock on TNA not utilizing the stealing of a big name from WWE.

Angles in ring skill is as high as it ever has been, but TNA had a gold mine when he came over. TNA had legit White Heat with the IWC. The buzz for TNA was insane. Most people thought that this was the first big shot of a TNA-WWE war. A lot of people thought that TNA had a shot at getting Big Show, Jericho or RVD, if not all 3. Instead Dixie Carter, instead of being proactive, sat on her hands and didn't agressively go after any of these. In all likelihood, RVD and Y2J are going to be with the WWE, the jury is still out on the Big Show, but you never know.

 

[ExtremeRage81]

Kurt Angle has been trying to get other wrestlers to jump ship but this is not something that can be done in an instant. These things take time. And what are you kidding me? Did you not see his matches with Samoa Joe? I haven't seen anyone push Angle to the limits like that. Not even Chris Benoit or HBK have been able to do that.

 

[Shocky]

It's not Kurt Angles job though to recruit WWE guys to TNA, Kurts job is too put on damn good matches, which he has. The TNA officials are to blame for not grabbing any of the free, or soon to be free, agents out there. Kurt has opened the door, but it's up to TNA officials to get off their asses and be more aggressive in contract negotiations.

 

[attila]

I think this has been more of a TNA PR problem. You cant blame the booking or Kurt for any of the failure to capture a new audience. The booking last month was fkn awful, but the last three-four weeks and in general before that have been acceptable, at times exceptional TV in my opinion. The only compaint in general that anyone can have about Kurt in TNA is the fact that we don't get to see him wrestle any worthwhile matches on Impact! given the time restrictions.

But back to the PR thing. You know why TNA cannot capitalise on the Kurt Angle thing. Its because nobody fkn knows he works there. Nobody knows Kurt is still alive. Most people are probably waiting for him to return from injury in the WWE. TNA sucks at promoting themselves. And from a marketing persepctive they have no idea what they are doing. When someone like WWE owns the position that it does in the mind of the consumer, there is no hope for a new company like TNA to occupy the same space.

TNA needed to market itself on something different, like ECW did, right from the beginning. ECW always knew it couldn't compete head to head with the WWF and the WCW, and so they took a different angle. They were the guys that gave you extreme, hardcore and at times great technical wrestling. But more importantly they positioned themselves in a separate market to what the WWE and WCW did. At a time when these two companies were tailored to kids (like the WWE is today), ECW chased the 18-34 year olds. All of their marketing materials were always covered in splatters of blood and barbed wire. Never did you see a poster without extreme written all over it, never did you see the same fan interaction at events, etc etc etc. And because of all these elements coming together as a differentiator ECW was able to occupy a place alongside WCW and WWE as an alternative. TNA tries to occupy the same space and it cant win out. This is marketing 101. TNA sucks at marketing itself.

 

[GreekAngell]

This thread is not meant to be a knock on Angle at all, but moreso a knock on TNA not utilizing the stealing of a big name from WWE.

Angles in ring skill is as high as it ever has been, but TNA had a gold mine when he came over. TNA had legit White Heat with the IWC. The buzz for TNA was insane. Most people thought that this was the first big shot of a TNA-WWE war. A lot of people thought that TNA had a shot at getting Big Show, Jericho or RVD, if not all 3. Instead Dixie Carter, instead of being proactive, sat on her hands and didn't agressively go after any of these. In all likelihood, RVD and Y2J are going to be with the WWE, the jury is still out on the Big Show, but you never know.

As I was saying if DIXIE CHICK CARTER moved her ass and offered same amounts of money as she presented and delivered herself with teh contract to MR Steve Borden she should also go after Y2J Chris Jericho and BIG SLOW
they are going to TNA coz their backs have taken a toll and I don't see them back in the WWE at all! Why did they leave in the first place right shockmaster? Same goes for RVD,SABU and CHAVO if not REY also is a factor poor REY will have McMoron vs Rey Mysterio in SUMMERSLAM what kind of a crappy match is this I meanlately WWE sucks completely except the 4 contenders of WWE title on RAW besides I see Backlash will suck last years Backlash a 4 corners match on backlash mcmoronvs shane mcmoron vs umaga vs Bobby Lashley yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn
Also Carlito and Flair lost their spot on backlash its Cade and Murdoch vs Hardy Boys yawwwwwwwwwwwn they are a useless team
no womens title yet hmmmm how disappointing
I rather see Great Khali vs Bobby Lashley for fucks sake lol
But Yet again I wouldn t be suprised to see Carlito hop onto TNA and Rey Mysterio when he emabarasses himself against McMOron worst match it will go down in history of all time !!!!
TNA has potential !!!

 

[PhenomenalStyles]

Congratulations, you're the most illiterate person I've ever encountered. Basically all you said was "flame flame WWE, I love TNA." Chris Jericho and The Big Show are not going to TNA. Neither is Carlito, RVD, Sabu, or anyone of importance. The fact is WWE can market their stars and make them big time money that TNA couldn't possibly match. The only reason a guy like Kurt Angle is in TNA, is because his ego has reached the breaking point. The guy honestly thinks he's the greatest wrestler of all time. I can't wait to see his shiny head get popped in a MMA ring. Maybe it will knock some sense into him.

 

[ExtremeRage81]

Congratulations, you're the most illiterate person I've ever encountered. Basically all you said was "flame flame WWE, I love TNA." Chris Jericho and The Big Show are not going to TNA. Neither is Carlito, RVD, Sabu, or anyone of importance. The fact is WWE can market their stars and make them big time money that TNA couldn't possibly match. The only reason a guy like Kurt Angle is in TNA, is because his ego has reached the breaking point. The guy honestly thinks he's the greatest wrestler of all time. I can't wait to see his shiny head get popped in a MMA ring. Maybe it will knock some sense into him.

Clearly somebody that is beyond blind. Kurt Angle was being underutilized by the WWE as opposed to TNA. He didn't go there for the money. He went to TNA so he could not hold back his skills. RVD and Sabu not going there, thats as much a joke as you saying that the WWE can market them. Instead has been pushing them down but now he's got his tail between his legs because the fans still love them. Again godforbid TNA ever goes down but if it did, I'm done with wrestling. I will never go back to the WWE. Ever.

 

[thatdamgood]

It is a given Angle in TNA has been a failure maybe not on a personal note for Angle but def for TNA has a whole.Just what has been worse Angle arriving or Russo?

 

[Jonny B]

Right, GreekAngell has been sent to the Prison...

To everyone else, keep this on topic, turn this Thread into a WWE vs. TNA Thread and you'll also end up where GreekAngell is.

 

[hatehabsforever]

No, I do not believe the Kurt Angle experiment has been a failure. He has brought some interest to TNA from people such as myself who have otherwise never really given TNA a true chance. He has brought some star power and certainly some intensity.

This is not intended to be a TNA bash or a WWE vs TNA thread. But even the most die-hard TNA fan would have to accept that at the moment, TNA is light years behind WWE. Even if you prefer TNA over WWE (which I personally do not), this has to be accepted as a given.

It would be unrealsitic to think that Kurt Angle, or anyone else for that matter, could instantly bring numbers to TNA. TNA's problems run far deeper than that. They need to expand from their comfort zone geographically (as they are beginning to do). They need more than one hour of TV time per week and they need to go live so that internet spoilers don't ruin their already shaky storylines, especially where they tend to tape weeks of action at a time. They also need to develop their existing talent better as well as draw in some new talent (other than WWE cast-offs).

Until TNA addresses some of these issues, don't put the blame for their lack of numbers on Kurt Angle's shoulders, that's not fair.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Can someone please explain to me the sentiment that is out there that Kurt Angle was underutilized by the WWE? Maybe this is slightly off topic and therefore the wrong place for this post, I apologize if that's the case.

Kurt Angle held virtually every title belt possible at some point in his WWE career. He was King of the Ring at one point (I think). He has been both a face and a heel. He has been both comical/silly as well as very intense. He wrestled a lot, was in a lot of PPV's, and I think received lots of respect in WWE. When his health did not allow him to wrestle, they made him GM of SD! He helped guide new talent (World's Greatest Tag Team Benjamin and Haas, for example).

He was the cornerstone of SD for years. WHen it was time to juggle the rosters, they jumped him to Raw in a major move. When SD was struggling, they moved him from Raw back to SD, and instantly made him champ again. When they launched ECW, they made him the cornerstone of the brand.

How much more could they have utilized him? If they give him an extended run people will compare him to HHH and say he's hogging all the attention.

Back on topic, I think he will be well utilized in TNA; he will become the cornerstone of the company. And this can only bode well for TNA, despite the points I made in my earlier post. But no one should suggest he was under-utilized in WWE, just because he did not carry the whole organization on his shoulders like he apparently is being expected to do in TNA. For this to happen, he would actually have to be as good as he thinks he is, and no one is that good.

 

[Shocky]

Underutilized might be the wrong word, but under appreciated certainly. Triple H has all of the stroke now, and everyone knows there has always been a rift between both Angle and Hunter. Hell, even Michaels took a BS cheap shot at Angle after he left for TNA. Most fans were pissed off with WWE when Angle feuded with Cena for over 4 months in 2005 into 2006, and didn't get over once. That, coupled with Cena getting over on Christian and Jericho, was the straw that broke the Cena bandwagon's back.

Now back to topic. The thread may suggest its a Kurt Angle thread, but it really isn't. I've said before that Kurt has had an excellent run thus far, but the problems lie within TNA themselves. All of the big name free Agents out there, and TNA has yet to aggresivly go after any of them. This is where the frustration lies. Kurt can't do it all on his own, just like a Scott Hall couldn't have done it on his own. Kurt needs his Nash, another big name that is going to turn heads. A Jericho or Big Show may do that, but the problem is with TNA managment.

No one expects TNA to be #1, but they need to at least be beating a very weak ECW in the ratings. TNA needs to be more aggresive with free agents, and with Spike TV on getting that 2nd hour. Spike was happy with the signing of Angle, and right hten TNA should have jumped all over getting a two hour deal.

Since Angle has arrived in TNA
Angle gets a 5/5, especially since he is battling some injuries.
TNA gets a 1/5, because of being very passive since Angle has arrived.

 

[bbay]

to me it seems that angle is not doing the right thing for his health, i feel that the wwe had to let him go due to the problems he was having in regards to wanting to work through severe injuries and the pain killer addiction and i feel that he needs to take time and think things through before we have another wrestler dying, yes tna is getting better with matches like the ones we see with kurt but to me i think that his health is more important, you all can talk about this and say im bashing tna but im not i just feel that it is the wrong time for angle and tna to get involved does anyone even remember the steroid prob and no im not biased i feel that randy ortan needs to get fired to for the problems hes facing seriously what excuse does he have for taking 8 kinds of roids me thinks none

 

[TheRealDC]

Certain issues arise from this... but so I don't dwindle off topic right off the bat, I think Kurt should do whatever makes him happy. True fans of wrestlers care little as to where that person goes, they will follow up on him. If I were to give my two cents in on it, I would say that Kurt made a smart move to allow himself to get more freedom and to really spread his wings. There is a fire in Kurt now.

As for the issues go... you can't really base an opinion on whether or not the ratings change due to Kurt joining TNA. The ratings don't pertain to it because Kurt doesn't control that aspect, the rest of the show does, and that really dwindles down to the two hour thing. If they moved to two hours you would see a lot more stuff coming from the company. Kurt would actually be wrestling in good matches and not have to be cut off by Abyss or someone because others need to be on camera. I remember tuning in to TNA one night and watching every single match be called off due to interference. Another time I was so excited to see Kurt vs AJ Styles, destined to be a classic, only to watch it be called off due to interference. Two hours would do wonders for the show, and it would see acquisitions like Kurt Angle be brought to full potential. I don't want to have to spend money to watch Angle wrestle in a decent match.

So I think for me, the jury is still out not only on Kurt, but everything revolving around TNA. Kurt is no doubt the best "steal" *I use that term loosely* that TNA has gotten, no doubt about it. But they need the two hours for it to be as much a success as they had hoped for.

 

[InstantClassic]

D.C - You hit the nail right on the head with that.

As I have said numerous times, we unfortunately cannot get Imapct in Australia. But I must agree that you can't expect Angle, no matter how much of a drawcard he can be, to have a huge impact on the ratings etc, when he cannot perform to his true potential due to time constraints.

 

[caifanes]

I think Dixie Carter is a bad president, they should change her. Also fire Steiner, Tomko and Russo, they don't give anything to TNA and only charge for money.....And develop their talent, give them the titles, get 2 hours, get TNA live......and also another important thing....change the damn scenario..the need to refresh it, better storylines, and better marketing.

 

[InstantClassic]

The topic at hand is the impact Kurt Angle has had since coming to TNA. Not the quality of the TNA product, who should be hired/fired etc.

You didn't even make mention of this in your comment. If you can't post in the right thread you'll end up getting banned. and rightly so