The IWC - The Reason For Their Own Misfortune

[Ultra Awesome]

This is something that has been echoing in the back of my mind for quite some time, and I feel it's about time I finally put it into words.

The Internet Wrestling Community--we are them. The people who take a break from their daily lives to come and discuss wrestling on a forum because not enough of our friends talk about it in real life. At first glimpse, it seems cool, right? People voicing opinions/debating over various scenarios and issues that are involved with wrestling's past, present and future. But as everything does, so too does the IWC have when it comes to having it's "cons."

Week after week, day after day, you see people complaining about the product to which WWE dishes out. People are unsatisfied with its programming and feel that the quality to which it holds is below expectations. "Smarks" claim that eras such as that of the Attitude Era far excel anything that the WWE has conjured up within the past few years, and that anything CREATIVE has in mind is shit before it is ever even released onto the television.

Where these types of opinions come from is a no-brainer: other opinions. Yes, the development of a "smark" could only have come from the influence of another smark. Picture this in your mind. Person A claims that he hates John Cena. Person A did a decent job in stating why he hated Cena and as a result, influenced person B into thinking the same way. Now person C comes along and sees both Person A and Person B hating Cena, and therefore, decides to also hate Cena. Eventually, Person D makes his way into the discussion and decides to go the same route just because everyone else is doing it. Anyone see a pattern here?

It's "Monkey see, Monkey do." Because the majority of the people think a certain way, it is inevitable that more and more people will eventually be influenced to the point where their opinion becomes that of the former. In turn, more and more "smarks" are born and more and more hatred over the WWE's product is generated.

But it's more than that. Before the IWC even comes together to discuss said topics, internet wrestling sites come out with "scoops" that contain various rumors and spoilers involving wrestling companies, their actions, and their wrestlers. Whether it be rumors of so-and-so returning to the WWE, or simply the spoilers to Monday Night Raw that are posted up on wrestling websites such as Wrestlezone, the IWC takes a look at this out of pure curiosity. At blank stare, no harm done, right? It was just temptation that did it, afterall. The simple word "RUMOR" or "SPOILER" is enough to drive one crazy, so it's understandable.

But what is the after-effect of this? Sure, the IWC member that saw this is content in seeing what he saw, but what does that mean for his enjoyment of when he actually gets to see the "SPOILERS" first hand? -- It'll be less. This person will already know what to expect so any shock-value or emotion that could be developed is reduced. Now times this times 52 weeks a year. Do you see this pattern also? The more the IWC keeps at it, the more their overall enjoyment of the product will decrease.

It's inevitable. When you already know something is going to happen before it does happen, of course you're going to be less shocked and astonished--ultimately enjoy it less for when it finally does happen.

My point, if haven't been made clear yet, is that the reason why I believe WWE has so much negativity generated towards it is because of people like the IWC themselves. Because of their constant involvement in these wrestling sites, it is that their overall enjoyment of what they see is reduced tremendously.


So now, what do you guys think?


Do you guys agree with me when I say that the reason why so many people hate what today's product holds is because of themselves and their computer?

Or...

Do you guys think that the product really is worse than it once was and it's the company's fault for not delivering.


On a final note, I'd like to state that there's nothing like the casual fan. The kinda person that is void from the internet and watches wrestling for the sole purpose of enjoyment. This person does not over think the simplicity of an angle. He just sits, kicks back and watches as his favorite wrestlers engage in, well, wrestling.

 

[marklouis]

My displeasure with the current WWE product has nothing to do with the internet. It has to do with many issues, such as the fact that the current pool of talent is as weak as it has been in many years. I know he has many fans in the IWC, but The Miz is an awful pro wrestler, & the fact that he is a star in the company speaks volumes about the product. The same can be said about Mark Henry. There's a reason it took him 15 years to accomplish anything. And the fact is, while there are many good athletes in WWE, there aren't necessarily good professional wrestlers. Too many people today focus on the "sports" & not the "entertainment".

On top of this, the create department is pathetic. Look at what they did to CM Punk. For the first time in nearly a decade, Punk brought a mainstream buzz to pro wrestling. ESPN was talking about WWE. And what did WWE do? They neutered him so that they could once again push HHH. Not only did the push HHH, they had him bury the rest of the roster in the process. I don't need the internet to tell me this was a mistake. I can think for myself.

But maybe you cannot think for yourself. Maybe you just swallow whatever the WWE feeds you and thank them for it. Which is sad, really, because as long as there are fans like you, willing to fork over your money for shit, the WWE will keep giving you shit. But I hope that you are in the minority, & there are signs that you are. WWE has been getting embarrassingly low attendance numbers at TV tapings, including just 1600 paid at a recent Smackdown. TV ratings are stagnant, & PPV buy rates are at a low. Maybe the fans are waking up, & maybe they'll demand better. But we know you won't.

 

[Blazinstar88]

First and foremost I believe people need to realize the "Attitude Era" is a thing of the past...while the "Attitude Era" was better then what the WWE presents these days...there are countless DVD's to watch to relive those moments.

The WWE is starting to pick up their game more now than they have these past few years. They way I see it...basketball was downright painful to watch without people such as Jordan, Ewing, Pippen, Webber etc... but now it's been more interesting lately and is still in a rebuilding stage...the WWE seems to be in this rebuilding stage now and people need to realize it's gonna take time to be consistently interesting

I think everyone needs to chill out because after all...WWE could very well put out the production quality of TNA

 

[Ultra Awesome]

Some things just never change...

My displeasure with the current WWE product has nothing to do with the internet. It has to do with many issues, such as the fact that the current pool of talent is as weak as it has been in many years. I know he has many fans in the IWC, but The Miz is an awful pro wrestler, & the fact that he is a star in the company speaks volumes about the product.

Humor me. The Miz has continued to improve inside and outside the ring since the day he began. This guy is a work-horse who devotes himself to what he does. On top of that, despite all the original hate he received back in the day, this man has overturned it and appealed to the majority of these people. Case-in-point: Miz draws. The fact that his 'wrestling skills' does not satisfy you does not warrant the product to be shit.

The same can be said about Mark Henry. There's a reason it took him 15 years to accomplish anything. And the fact is, while there are many good athletes in WWE, there aren't necessarily good professional wrestlers. Too many people today focus on the "sports" & not the "entertainment".

You got it backwards here, brahh. The focus is "entertainment;" not so much "sports." If it were the sports than the WWE wouldn't be on its on-going attempt to be mainstream and generating millions as they go along. They'd be where boxing is at. Bearly alive.

On top of this, the create department is pathetic. Look at what they did to CM Punk. For the first time in nearly a decade, Punk brought a mainstream buzz to pro wrestling. ESPN was talking about WWE. And what did WWE do? They neutered him so that they could once again push HHH. Not only did the push HHH, they had him bury the rest of the roster in the process. I don't need the internet to tell me this was a mistake. I can think for myself.

First of all, no one has buried anyone. To bury someone is to constantly shove said person to the ground week after week until their relevancy becomes so moot that they are just bearly above the line of future endeavored. That's a bury.

Also, saying that CM Punk has been neutered is beyond stupid. Exactly how was this done? Last I checked CM Punk is the number one contender for the WWE Championship--yea. The main event, bro.

And as far as Triple H goes, isn't he in his own little quarrel with Kevin Nash? Isn't he gonna be absent for the next 5 weeks? Yeaa, Triple H >>> Everyone else.

But maybe you cannot think for yourself. Maybe you just swallow whatever the WWE feeds you and thank them for it. Which is sad, really, because as long as there are fans like you, willing to fork over your money for shit, the WWE will keep giving you shit. But I hope that you are in the minority, & there are signs that you are.

U just mad cuz I be stylin' on you.

Look, bro. WWE has shown a major improvement since the last couple of years. Do you remember back in 09 when there was a guest host every week? Do you remember Hornswoggle? Yeaa, these two concepts were the main foci of the show. Now look at where we at now. We got about 7 storylines being built up--all which hold a considerable amount of quality and generating a considerable amount of interest. The last time WWE had this much diversity in their feuds--and in which they actually built up--was a really long time ago. Point in case: WWE's quality has improved a great deal.

WWE has been getting embarrassingly low attendance numbers at TV tapings, including just 1600 paid at a recent Smackdown. TV ratings are stagnant, & PPV buy rates are at a low. Maybe the fans are waking up, & maybe they'll demand better. But we know you won't.

Blaming the decline in sales purely on the supposed "lack of quality" is a completely biased, unimformative response. There are many factors that contribute to the decline in alll the ones you mentioned. For one, the decrease of PPV buys is undoubtedly because there are simply too many--at a high price--that people just can't afford in the times we live in. I sincerely doubt that one will be willing to pay 45 or so bucks a month for just a PPV. It's just simply not a good economical move.

 

[JBM]

The OP brings up a point that's been on my mind for awhile. I don't post on here very often. I used to enjoy hearing what others have to say about storylines/characters/etc..But over the past couple months, I've grown more and more irritated by what I read. Seems like 90% of the people on here think they have all the answers. And you're dead on when you mentioned "shock value being irrelevant because they already know what's coming". It's to the point where I don't like coming on the site anymore. I come on from time to time to feed my own curiosity...but I think I'd rather just watch Raw and see what happens. I really think that reading the forums, spoilers and rumors has ruined it all for me. Just my .2 cents.

 

[WCW_Sting]

Originally Posted by marklouis
But maybe you cannot think for yourself. Maybe you just swallow whatever the WWE feeds you and thank them for it. Which is sad, really, because as long as there are fans like you, willing to fork over your money for shit, the WWE will keep giving you shit. But I hope that you are in the minority, & there are signs that you are.

Super Awesome basically just handed you your ass, but I have a few more things to add.

So he can't think for himself, but he swallows whatever the WWE feeds him? Those statements contradict each other, man. If one comes to WrestleZone to read news, spoilers, and the forums, and in turn forms an opinion based on what he reads (which we all do to an extent), then he doesn't think for himself, but instead is influenced. If one watches the product and enjoys "whatever the WWE feeds [him]" (whether it's shit or not), then he thinks for himself.

The majority of us here have watched wrestling since childhood, and what did we do when we were kids? Answer...we swallowed whatever they fed us. We didn't have the Internet for rumors, backstage news, and spoilers. We tuned in every time we could and enjoyed whatever product we were watching because of the action and shock value. We were simply fans, and being a loyal Internet fan for about ten years, I often miss being that kind of fan.

You meant that comment as an insult, but I think the fan who swallows whatever he is fed, whether it's good or bad, gets the most enjoyment out of professional wrestling. The Internet, along with age, has taken that away from me.

There are always things I wish WWE would do differently (this conspiracy angle is one of them), but I tune in every week because I love it. The fact that you're still posting in this forum all but proves that you do too.

As always, get over yourselves and enjoy some wrestling.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Personally I find it odd to call it a 'community'. There are millions of wrestling fans, almost all have the internet and certainly all of them have their own individual opinions and places where they can talk about them and have that opinion shared and saved, whether it be facebook, twitter or message boards. It is almost all wrestling fans. They didn't just suddenly have opinions either. It is not because the supposed IWC started talking about how bad TNA is that they can't fill arenas, it is because people think it is bad - the same way that people thought WCW was bad post-98. Also me telling a friend why I think the booking of Cena beating up both Miz and Truth this Monday was stupid doesn't suddenly change whether it'll influence him because in 2011 we had that conversation on Twitter instead of us discussing Rey Mysterio Jr. losing his mask to Kevin Nash over a decade ago face to face.

Quite frankly the only difference is the process of understanding and how people don't really know what to do with the extra data yet. In the long term, I feel it will massively benefit the industry. Because before, all I could do was: if I like a show continue to buy PPVs and ticket stubs, if I disliked a show I could stop watching and not turn up. Before, bookers had to make their own assumptions as to why you liked or disliked a show- now you can make your voice heard. So: I am more likely to watch wrestling when story isn't rushed or muddled, i.e. I don't watch TNA. Now I can get in touch DIRECTLY WITH THE STAFF ON TWITTER and say 'hey I liked the Bound For Glory build up because for once you built and built and didn't rush and I got involved - just something to think about'.

It really isn't just a case of 'if a show is in my hometown and i get to go to it because im not working that night and i boo this guy and cheer this guy they will understand how i feel as a fan' anymore because that is so limited. Take a couple cases over history and see how a more pronounced and specific voice from the fans may have changed things:

1. Steve Austin. Him and Pillman were incredibly exciting guys who were over with the fans and... buried and released by WCW. Maybe if people in 94 and 95 had more of an opportunity to say 'we want to see more of this Austin fella' as opposed to just turning up hoping he may have been on the card, WCW would have known what a talent they had.

2. Tom McGee. Need I say more? Oh hell lets add more names to that list then of people Vince was prepared to push and maybe even did regardless of talent- Sid, Warrior, Great Khali are most probably be the biggest names. Whereas in 2011 the equivilant of a body like the Dingo Warrior who Vince would love to push... is Mason Ryan and- I just feel like twitter each week goes mental any time he is given a chance of Zach Ryder to the point where Mason Ryan will never get the push his body would in another era. He doesn't have the talent, regardless of the people he works with and there are many voices showing the way to a worthier guy.

3. The end of WCW. Compare the other week when Jim Ross was 'fired' and seeing real live updates of thousands saying 'ok i just don't care anymore, i'm turning off'. JR came back next week. If the millions who watched WCW in decline were able to have their voices heard about SPECIFICS, would it have been such a disaster? People turned off because they humilated Flair, because there were too many old guys doing the same old, because of Oklahoma, because of ridiculous gimmick matches, because of hotshotting the title, not to mention David Arquette and Vince Russo as title winners. If the internet existed in the all-defining way it does today and we were able to say on mass #wcwisjericho would he have been treated as the vanilla midget not worth pushing? Also look at how after the numbers started circulating about how many times the belts had changed hands in the WWE this year, the inevitable backlash to them losing their prestige because of it and most importantly - that it now seems like Del Rio and Henry will continue to hold them because fans are vocal about wanting that prestige. If the IWC existed during WCW in 2000, then the internet would be going mental. And they'd be right to do so, and it would create better entertainment if they were listened to.

The thing is that the IWC, although always individual opinions, does represent mostly what people see as the more nuanced ideals of good wrestling. No hotshotting. Pushes related to character and fued development. Knowing when something is getting stale. Understanding of prestige within the community and how it is earned. Take the 'turn Cena heel' opinion - it is only because his character has become stale that they are vying for other options. This is not Russo-esque wanting of quick booking and character changes. It is an understanding that things have to progress over time and that if or when or just before they start to falter, then you have to understand where that progression needs to go to keep things fresh. You don't need to be a 'smart mark' to understand that! You just have to enjoy good storytelling and be vocal enough to try and encourage people towards good storytelling.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

Some very interesting points, but on the whole I have to respectfully disagree. I do applaud you for putting the flaws of the IWC into words without railing them with ignorance. After all, the IWC's biggest enemy is itself... Or rather, the people that think they're "above it" and smarter than the rest. And I'm sure some are! To be bluntly obvious, there are a lot of really stupid people on the internet...

I don't think we quite have the hive-mind mentality that we've been accused of though. Many people, I'd like to believe myself included, have been watching the product for a long time and have the ability to think for themselves. To make free-standing statements based on our opinions of the product. BUT, in defense of your theory, there is a lot to be said for mob mentality. It's easy to jump on the bandwagon and hate on things you really know nothing about, because you don't want to appear "out of the loop". This is really clear when it comes to the hundreds, if not thousands of people that "hate" Impact Wrestling but haven't followed it in years, if not ever. Same goes for Ring of Honor, and in rare cases the WWE.

Personally, I think the modern era of wrestling has a lot to offer. This year alone we've seen the rise of a lot of mid-card Superstars. Cody Rhodes, Dolph Ziggler, the Miz, Air Boom...lot's of people that could be the future of the company are on the up and up! The return of the Rock was huge, and CM Punk's shoot, followed by his match with John Cena was a great moment for any era. Every year since the Attitude Era has had plenty of excellent moments, and short-comings. BUT, I do acknowledge that as a whole, the time recognized as the Attitude Era is better than the current product, in about a dozen different ways.

 

[Jeritron5000]

This is something that has been echoing in the back of my mind for quite some time, and I feel it's about time I finally put it into words.

The Internet Wrestling Community--we are them. The people who take a break from their daily lives to come and discuss wrestling on a forum because not enough of our friends talk about it in real life. At first glimpse, it seems cool, right? People voicing opinions/debating over various scenarios and issues that are involved with wrestling's past, present and future. But as everything does, so too does the IWC have when it comes to having it's "cons."

Week after week, day after day, you see people complaining about the product to which WWE dishes out. People are unsatisfied with its programming and feel that the quality to which it holds is below expectations. "Smarks" claim that eras such as that of the Attitude Era far excel anything that the WWE has conjured up within the past few years, and that anything CREATIVE has in mind is shit before it is ever even released onto the television.

Where these types of opinions come from is a no-brainer: other opinions. Yes, the development of a "smark" could only have come from the influence of another smark. Picture this in your mind. Person A claims that he hates John Cena. Person A did a decent job in stating why he hated Cena and as a result, influenced person B into thinking the same way. Now person C comes along and sees both Person A and Person B hating Cena, and therefore, decides to also hate Cena. Eventually, Person D makes his way into the discussion and decides to go the same route just because everyone else is doing it. Anyone see a pattern here?

It's "Monkey see, Monkey do." Because the majority of the people think a certain way, it is inevitable that more and more people will eventually be influenced to the point where their opinion becomes that of the former. In turn, more and more "smarks" are born and more and more hatred over the WWE's product is generated.

But it's more than that. Before the IWC even comes together to discuss said topics, internet wrestling sites come out with "scoops" that contain various rumors and spoilers involving wrestling companies, their actions, and their wrestlers. Whether it be rumors of so-and-so returning to the WWE, or simply the spoilers to Monday Night Raw that are posted up on wrestling websites such as Wrestlezone, the IWC takes a look at this out of pure curiosity. At blank stare, no harm done, right? It was just temptation that did it, afterall. The simple word "RUMOR" or "SPOILER" is enough to drive one crazy, so it's understandable.

But what is the after-effect of this? Sure, the IWC member that saw this is content in seeing what he saw, but what does that mean for his enjoyment of when he actually gets to see the "SPOILERS" first hand? -- It'll be less. This person will already know what to expect so any shock-value or emotion that could be developed is reduced. Now times this times 52 weeks a year. Do you see this pattern also? The more the IWC keeps at it, the more their overall enjoyment of the product will decrease.

It's inevitable. When you already know something is going to happen before it does happen, of course you're going to be less shocked and astonished--ultimately enjoy it less for when it finally does happen.

My point, if haven't been made clear yet, is that the reason why I believe WWE has so much negativity generated towards it is because of people like the IWC themselves. Because of their constant involvement in these wrestling sites, it is that their overall enjoyment of what they see is reduced tremendously.


So now, what do you guys think?


Do you guys agree with me when I say that the reason why so many people hate what today's product holds is because of themselves and their computer?

Or...

Do you guys think that the product really is worse than it once was and it's the company's fault for not delivering.


On a final note, I'd like to state that there's nothing like the casual fan. The kinda person that is void from the internet and watches wrestling for the sole purpose of enjoyment. This person does not over think the simplicity of an angle. He just sits, kicks back and watches as his favorite wrestlers engage in, well, wrestling.

I also have to disagree. My opinions are based on my perceived quality of what I'm watching and nothing more. I hate Cena and it has nothing to do with anyone's opinion on these boards. I loved the Attitude Era and simply don't care if that opinion is met with judgment. On the flip side, I don't see what anyone sees in Zack Ryder. It's a matter of personal preference. You like stuff. You don't like other stuff. Everyone wants to book the damn show. Everyone wants to see what THEY believe to be a quality program.

I absolutely believe the product isn't delivering like it once was. Go ahead and pretend like it's just another guy who can't get past the Attitude Era, but that's just a cop out. It's good sometimes and atrocious others but we're all here because we all know it would take a lot for any of us to just stop watching.

Listen. We like what we like. We know it when we're watching. If anything, the computer is where we go to mainly bitch when we're dissatisfied. I just don't buy the idea that we're influencing each others opinions to the extremity you're suggesting.

 

[MFBASED]

Originally Posted by Super Awesome
First of all, no one has buried anyone. To bury someone is to constantly shove said person to the ground week after week until their relevancy becomes so moot that they are just bearly above the line of future endeavored. That's a bury.

Also, saying that CM Punk has been neutered is beyond stupid. Exactly how was this done? Last I checked CM Punk is the number one contender for the WWE Championship--yea. The main event, bro.

Main event? Really? Last time I checked the main event is John Cena & The Rock vs. Awesome Truth @ Survivor Series.

Fact is CM Punk has 4 consecutive PPV losses since winning the WWE Championship @ Money in the Bank. Maybe "bury" isn't the correct word but "de-push" is. A massive de-push, to be realistic. Scrap plans, re-written scrips, etc., so that the attention/focus of the program was always on Triple H, since the RAW after MITB. Even though Cena took a back-seat, he is still main-eventing RAW regularly. Now that The Rock is back, Triple H can go back to being a husband, hence why he's "injured," then after Survivor Series, he returns and becomes the center of RAW again to set-up of HHH/Nash at TLC. Then from there it will be The Rock/John Cena feud in full effect, while CM Punk plays second-fiddle with a devalued WWE Championship and mid-card talents (i,e. ADR, R-Truth, Miz).

---

I think that the product is a little different today than as it used to be in the sense that it's still pre-determined and is presented as side-show/circus act - where you suspend belief - that's best experienced live but recently becoming, for better or worse, more and more a weekly soap opera that has ups and downs like a roller coaster. I really can't put it in words, wrestling at its best is magical art but you're always going to get piles of shit mostly due to backstage politics. The internet just gives us access to to all the irrelevant, trivial stuff. At the end of the day, just change the channel/not watch if you think it's bad/not worth the investment.

 

[DanTheMan3:16]

If you dont like the product, just dont watch it. If you like it than watch it, people will always bitch about the product because they will always find something wrong with the product.

Hell even in the attitude era people were bitching about how dumb some storylines were and how the wwf handled things (contuining the show after owen harts death, mae young giving birth to a hand, patterson vs brisco in an evening gown match, etc...)

People will always bitch, moan and groan about the product and its best to let them keep bitching, even if the product is good they will find a way to bitch about it.

 

[BarryHorowitzfanclub]

I'm going to agree with the initial poster. The IWC is one big spoiler. There can't be a surprise if you're always peeking at the presents.

And no matter what any company does, if they do A, then it was totally "obvious and boring." If B happens then "they don't know what they're doing/what the people want."

It's a troll sandwich, and wrestling companies are the meat.

 

[RD_21]

I don't agree with all your point TC. First it may be true for some to a lo of people but not everyone. Just take the muppets, half the IWC loved it and can see it for what it was and the other half hated it. The IWC is a labelled group but is constituted of various individual.

Take me for example, when people were hating HHH for being with Steph and were bitching non stop he was my favorite wrestler and I was able to see that he could put over almost anyone and how good he was in the ring.

All my friend and the net hated Cena 6 years ago but I only started to get annoyed by him a year or two ago.

I've been a Punk fan since he joined in WWECW and he was feuding with Morrison, he's been one of the only reason I was watching Raw long before he did his speech and everyone start getting on board.

I HATE Kofi Kingston with a passion whether anyone like him or not, so I don't agree that the monkey see monkey do is for everyone.

Sure some people may hate Cena or love Punk because it's the cool thing to do, but you can't dismiss people hating or loving a wrestler as trend jumper, sometime it's warranted too.

A point I can give you is that spoilers, rumours and the fact that we know about the backstage politics DOES ruin the product. Yesterday in a thread I remembered how special Jericho beginning was, because I was watching wCw from time to time and had ZERO idea that Jericho was coming. Same for The Radicalz. These days people would know, there would be no surprise and they would then bitch about how it was booked. Maybe we are more objective because we don't have the shock value but it also helped making the product better back in the days.

Now when an interesting storyline start, EVERY POSSIBLE outcome are discussed on the Internet, everyone has his idea so when something happen you heard it at least once somewhere and you can then complain that it was predictable. That's why the WWE sometime give awful pay off just to be able to say nobody saw it coming because it's such a bad idea that nobody thoughts about it (but there's a reason why no one thought about it in the first place).

I think it would be better if site like these and other "dirt sheet" sites wouldn't exist but they do. The WWE and other wrestling organisations just need to adapt now.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

So now, what do you guys think? Do you guys agree with me when I say that the reason why so many people hate what today's product holds is because of themselves and their computer?

Living in a country that had WWE 3 weeks delayed I can honestly say hearing abour rumors or spoilers does not really deter your overall enjoyment of the product. Example was when Edge cahsed in his MITB againts The Undertaker, I read about it (heck the WWE even posted it) and despite knowing the results I enjoyed the heck out of it.

When its all said and done the rumors and spoilers you hear and read can never replace actually seeing it executed.

I remember FFVII the game I already knew beforehand Aeirs will die, but when it actually happend I choked up. Likewise people already knew what was going to happen at the Star Wars Prequels and the reaction is mixed ... some liked it, some hated it. Like I said ... its about execution and, of course, personal opinion.

Regardless of how much you know ... if you think something is good its good ... if something sucks it sucks.

Do you guys think that the product really is worse than it once was and it's the company's fault for not delivering?

Somethings were better back then and other things are better now. I would still say that the best period in the WWE I have witnessed is the early attitude era 1997 to 1998 and post invasion era late 2002 to 2004.

On a final note, I'd like to state that there's nothing like the casual fan. The kinda person that is void from the internet and watches wrestling for the sole purpose of enjoyment. This person does not over think the simplicity of an angle. He just sits, kicks back and watches as his favorite wrestlers engage in, well, wrestling.

I'm sorry but I've awlays found this stance insulting and ignorant in a way.

If you mean by a casual fan that they enjoy the show at one point but decide to abandon it when something else catches then attention then what kind of fan is that? Reason why right now we b**** or critiquing the product is because we LOVE and are PASSIONATE about it. It's the old saying goes ... the more you hate the more you love.

This existed before the internet or the IWC, its just that the internet (like for any other things) amplifies this 100 fold.

There's no such thing as the an innoence of a casual fan and is a loyal follower (unless you are 5) anymore. With the internet being an IPhone away the community builds up and becomes an open forum of discussion. Chances are if you are a fan .. you're going to get into this community.


And its us as consumers who have the right to voice out. I mean if that was the case Netflix could have gotten away charging their customers double because there was no community to complain about it and cause share prices to go down.

 

[Dalinkwent]

Why is it that I can't simply be bored with Cena and fustrated with the overall product in WWE? I'm kind of getting tired of being accused of "trying to be cool" or being another "IWC smark" simply because I'm tired of the same guy doing the same thing every night. I was one of the only guys as a kid that simply didn't see the appeal of Hogan, he did the same damn thing every match and had a cooking cutter persona. I was more of a Savage, Bret and HBK fan because I found them more interesting. Has Cena not reached a point of being stale? Even Austin, Rock, Hogan and many other top superstars reached a point when the act grew tired which resulted in heel turns or new persona's. I'm not trying to be cool by not liking Cena's persona, I'm simply tired of him doing the same thing over and over again. When I got back into wrestling I was shocked that Jericho was now this suit and tie heel, last time I saw him he was the rockstar, asshole heel/face with funny quips. Yet now I understand why Jericho changed his gimmick.

 

[Mattysandwich7]

Why is it that I can't simply be bored with Cena and fustrated with the overall product in WWE? I'm kind of getting tired of being accused of "trying to be cool" or being another "IWC smark" simply because I'm tired of the same guy doing the same thing every night. I was one of the only guys as a kid that simply didn't see the appeal of Hogan, he did the same damn thing every match and had a cooking cutter persona. I was more of a Savage, Bret and HBK fan because I found them more interesting. Has Cena not reached a point of being stale? Even Austin, Rock, Hogan and many other top superstars reached a point when the act grew tired which resulted in heel turns or new persona's. I'm not trying to be cool by not liking Cena's persona, I'm simply tired of him doing the same thing over and over again. When I got back into wrestling I was shocked that Jericho was now this suit and tie heel, last time I saw him he was the rockstar, asshole heel/face with funny quips. Yet now I understand why Jericho changed his gimmick.

I know how you feel but most people will go on here and try to tell you how your opinion is wrong and you should love Cena just because, People like Slyfox, Hamler, Thechamp, etc. They are the worst with it. I am slightly satisfied with the product lately but only slightly, It's still enjoyable. I also am just tired of Cena for the same reasons as you are but thats not good enough of an opinion I suppose

 

[Dalinkwent]

I know how you feel but most people will go on here and try to tell you how your opinion is wrong and you should love Cena just because, People like Slyfox, Hamler, Thechamp, etc. They are the worst with it. I am slightly satisfied with the product lately but only slightly, It's still enjoyable. I also am just tired of Cena for the same reasons as you are but thats not good enough of an opinion I suppose

Yea I've notice many people defending Cena and crying because everyone doesn't find him appealing. While some folks may bash him for the hell of it, I'm sure many people are just tired of the guy and his persona. Like I said before even Rock and Austin started to grow stale after years on top and it was clear somthing needed to change, how many times can you "sing along with The Rock" or say "HELL YEA" before it becomes routine? I remember when the Rock turned heel and said "FINALLY THE ROCK HAS COME BACK TO...Ahh who gives a crap", as a Rock fan that was funniest and most refreshing thing he had done in years.

 

[mcale]

If you dont like the product, just dont watch it.

This is always my favorite argument because it's totally absurd. It's the same as the "love it or leave it" attitude when it comes to one's patriotism. The problem is that we all LOVE wrestling. We WANT to watch it, but we also want WWE to deliver (TNA never will). The great thing about being a fan is that we get to criticize and overanalyze and ponder what could be different or better.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

So now, what do you guys think? Do you guys agree with me when I say that the reason why so many people hate what today's product holds is because of themselves and their computer?

Of course they hate because they can't talk about their knowledge with any casual fan. They would not understand what all the internet slang like heel and face are. However that is simply voicing the hate, here is the reason why the hate in the first place. I was once watching a psychology video on why people chose to communicate through the internet rather than in person. It sated that a computer or other user cannot hurt them physically and not as mentally as if they were insulted in real life. I am pretty sure most of the so called "haters" do not hate the product as much as their post or comments tend to indicated. They just want to act like Internet tough guys because they can get away with it with impunity of consequences.

Do you guys think that the product really is worse than it once was and it's the company's fault for not delivering?

Not at all. WWE programming has been just as compelling as it was once before within the past year. I think Triple H said it best when he stated that "Nowadays just for someone to utter the words ASS or BITCH gains a huge reaction from both home and live audiences, back then it was so common that the response was not anything to talk about". Well, OK he said something similar and more abbreviated but you get the point.

That is my theory on the IWC.

 

[Dagger Dias]

It is definitely the online fans' own fault. Many of them like negativity and look for things to complain about. The product is fine. WWE is still making money, putting on good shows for us, and creating new stars. The blogging and posting is not helping either. People can watch a decent edition of Smackdown and think it was good but then read a negative review on sites like Thejohnreport.net (I actually do like their site but the reviews tend to be negative) and suddenly think "This guy didn't like the show, I shouldn't either then!". That is a mentality that a lot of people have. It works in reverse too though. Last week I waited a few days to watch Smackdown so I could catch a review first. The review was negative. I proceeded to watch the actual show and it ended up being pretty good.

So if people think the product sucks compared to "the good old days" then either go watch your old attitude era tapes or quit reading negative posts online. Mark Madden is the worst of all. I enjoyed the product more when I began ignoring grouches like him. So sit back, enjoy the show, and don't let the internet ruin it. The IWC are certainly to blame for their own negativity because it is a never ending cycle of them being negative in posts, watching with a negative attitude, then going off to post more negativity for others to read. I even see it in our forum. People have forgotten how to simply enjoy something they claim to be a fan of.