The Greatest Canadian-Born Wrestler Of All-Time

[S.J. Maximus]

I just finished watching Austin's Podcast with Edge & Christian on the WWE Network and the last 15 minutes had me thinking about each man's individual legacies. I have never really jumped fully onboard with the idea that Edge is an all-time great. As a matter of fact, even as early as the Brood days I've liked Christian more. I always understood that Edge had the better career on paper but I've always felt that Christian was the better entertainer and appreciated his move set more.

Then Christian made a joke about Chris Jericho, which had me comparing his legacy with E&C, which at that point I decided to make this thread. When people talk about the greatest Canadian born wrestlers in WWE history, who comes to mind?

I know the poll is structured for top choices only but ideally I'm looking for a list of 3 people in order. I automatically assume everyone's top 3 will be Edge, Jericho, and Bret Hart but I want to know how people rank them and most importantly why they're ranking them that way.

As for me, my list is as follows:

5. Christian - An all-time great tag team competitor who won with other guys not just edge, and a champion of the midcard who finally reached World Title Status (albeit later than he should have). Arguably the funniest person on this list, he has excellent comedic timing and a gifted high flyer in the ring. Had he not left for TNA, and was a little bigger, Vince probably would've treated him the way he treated Edge; which probably would've given him more stats and bumped him up on this list.

4. Owen Hart - The most elite high flyer on this list. Arguably the greatest pure athletic as well, Owen was no stranger to gold but unfortunately due to the structure of the company of the time he was never crowned WWE champion. It would be hard to argue he wouldn't be champ the way that every heel was hot-shotted to the WWE/WHC during the Brand Expansion Era but even without top billing he made a lasting impression in the business as of the most gifted heels of the 90's.

3. Edge - On paper, he probably has had the best career in the history of the company. Has won every title there was during his career, several times each, and was a key member of some of the most memorable storylines and matches of all time. From TLC, to stealing Lita from Matt, to marrying Vickie Edge has consistently found a way to be relevant and extremely over. As arguably the greatest heel of the 21st century, he was given opportunity after opportunity and he knocked every one out of the park until his sudden retirement.

2. Chris Jericho - In my opinion (which many people disagree with) he is the single most versatile man in the history of professional wrestling. Few people have mastered the mic and the ring as efficiently as he did, with one area usually more dominant than the other. Jericho has shown elite ability to perform as a heel, a face, mid-card, main event, singles, tag team, on the mic, in the ring in way that makes me wonder how he's not in the hall of fame already. His accolades aren't as pretty as Edge and he hasn't put in as many years either (several hiatuses and part-time contracts over the years) but he is a true Attitude Era legend who has continued to be relevant, over, and draw money for years to come (and counting).

1. Bret "The Hitman" Hart - In a lot of ways he's underrated. They say he's a mark for himself, they say he can't talk, they say he was "in the right place at the right time" but when it boils down to it, this was THE GUY of the 90's. Arguably the greatest in ring performer of all time, he was truly the Excellence of Execution and dominated the WWE from 92-97, eventually showing tremendous range in 1997 with his heel turn. Both outings at WM 12 & 13 are serious contenders for best match in the history of the show and he has plenty of other outings on other ppvs (Ahem, Summerslam) that are held in a similar esteem. Despite what happened in Montreal and how he handled them, I think he will always be the Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best There Will Ever Be.

 

[Aquaman6686]

Just FYI, Chris Jericho is American-born. He was born in New York but raised in Canada.

As far as overall wrestling ability goes, you can't go wrong with either of the WWE-famous Hart brothers. Bret was better in the ring, Owen was more charismatic.

My personal pick is Edge. One of my all-time favorites, and one of the greatest of all time. It's a shame that he never got to be as big as he should have been, because he was used as a transitional champion so many times. 11-Time World Champion and his longest reign was barely three months? Terrible. He should have at least an 8-month reign once or twice.

 

[Bernkastel]

I picked other, because if this is an all time list then you missed quite a few names. Starting with the heavy hitters we have...

Gene Kiniski
Whipper Billy Watson
Bronko Nagurski
Edouard Carpentier
Yvon Robert
Mad Dog Vachon
Killer Kowalski
Roddy Piper [billed from Scotland but born in Canada]

Lesser known but still notable stars include...

Stu Hart
The Mountie
Abdullah the Butcher
Chris Benoit [judging the wrestler and not the man]
Bobby Roode
Rocky Johnson
Steve Corino
Chief Don Eagle
Rick Martel
Dino Bravo
Ivan Koloff [Billed from Soviet Union born in Canada]

I'd say might list would be...

1.) Gene Kiniski - A staple of the NWA for years. One of their greatest and most reliable champions. One of the best in ring workers of the time period. A great talker, extremely charismatic, and one of the all time greatest heels.

2.) Whipper Billy Watson - Very arguably the biggest draw to ever come out of Canada. Massively popular in Toronto. He oozed charisma and was a fantastic worker. He was a good draw as champion, having held the National Wrestling Association's world title and the NWA's world title. Beating Longson and Thesz respectively.

3.) Bret Hart - Even though Bret gets a bad rep as being a low drawing champion, he had allot on his shoulders. He was the WWE's flagship star after the steroid scandal. Contrary to what I've heard from numerous others, Bret did have allot of charisma. He may not have been the smoothest talker, but he had great presence and carried himself well. And his execution as a worker was probably second to none in the modern era.

4.) Yvon Robert - Another very popular Canadian born wrestler who worked during the end of the outlaw era before the creation of the NWA. He held multiple world titles including the Boston version of the AWA world title [more commonly known as the Strangler Lewis belt] and the National Wrestling Association world title, where he dethroned Bill Longson.

5.) Mad Dog Vachon - He was a staple of Gagne's AWA for nearly a decade during the 60's and 70's. Holding the AWA title numerous times. A notorious heel most remembered for his wild mannerisms.

My runners up would probably be Killer Kowalski - a very popular wrestling attraction in line with Andre and Haystacks and Bronko Nagurski - played pro football while simultaneously being one of the most popular wrestling champions in the late 1930's.

 

[Heartbreak_Kid_707]

Even though he wasn't Canadian born I'm still voting for Jericho...he's my favorite all time world wide, and much better than listed above in the poll or posts. I'd say Bret 2nd and Lance 3rd.

I wouldn't even put the others on the same list.

 

[Wrestlingaholic]

Bret Hart - simply put, in my opinion the greatest technical wrestler of all time.

Yes his promos weren't that great during his Babyface run, but then his hands were somewhat tied; when the leash was relaxed in the early days of Attitude, his heel turn was memorable for all the right reasons (and the semi-heel routine was one if the more memorable turns, where the Hart Foundation would heel it up to the max in the United States but remain massive babyfaces in Canada and England, a fantastic dynamic that WWE don't use often enough)

His matches rank highly when discussing the top matches; he had that rare ability, which only a handful have shown, of being able to have a watchable match with almost anyone. Off the top of my head, I can think of one bad Bret Hart singles match, an awful match against an ages Roddy Piper on WCW Nitro; (I discount the Wrestlemania 'match' against Vince McMahon as that wasn't a proper match, that was Vince allowing Bret redemption after Montreal); on the other hand, there were plenty of matches Bret had which surprised people, giving Skinner and Berserker their best WWE matches when their character portrayal was basically a joke; having a very good match with Headshrinker Fatu on an early episode of Raw when Fatu had hitherto only been known as a tag wrestler; bringing a decent long match out of Yokozuna at Wrestlemania IX when Yoko had predominantly won quick squash matches; giving Roddy Piper arguably his best ever WWE match at Wrestlemania VIII and Mr Perfect his at Summerslam 1991, no mean feat considering the standards of their matches (especially Perfect's) over the course of their WWE careers.

Also part of my favourite tag team match of all time, with Jim Neidhart against Demolition at Summerslam 1990, and had many memorable tag team feuds alongside the Anvil.

The only blots on his copybook are obviously the Montreal Screwjob (not his fault) - though this directly led to the biggest boom period in wrestling history; the failure of a proper culmination of his Shawn Michaels feud; and his extraordinarily bad booking in WCW - I firmly believe that, had Bret been booked as a sympathetic super Babyface, playing on the Montreal fallout, and gone to war with the nWo, TimeWarner would have not pulled the plug on wrestling as WCW's ratings would have skyrocketed.

Need any more proof? Just listen to the crowd reaction to Bret Hart between 1993 and 1996 - especially when pitted against fellow faces like Diesel or Lex Luger (at the finish of Royal Rumble 1994) - this guy was miles ahead of any other in terms of crowd reaction during the New Generation era.

And of course, there was that little match at Wembley Stadium...

 

[Jonyboyuk2]

I think sometimes people do not recall WWF history in the 1990's accurately.
Bret Hart had slowly started his rise to the top of WWF in 1991 when he beat Mr. Perfect.
Bret was already very well over with the fans. The major problem was the WWF was at its peak during the "Golden" era - and then Hulk Hogan went on TV and did The Arsenio Hall Show. This led to WWF going in to decline, because parents stopped letting their children watch (particularly in the USA). At the time Warrior then got suspended and fired, and left the WWF after Summerslam 1991 and when he returned he had lost a lot of weight. He no longer had the same aura about him and it made fans think he was in impostor. This, along with the disastrous Iraq sympathiser storyline, had WWF ratings, PPV figures and attendance way down.

At SummerSlam 1992, in the USA, the main event was promoted as Warrior vs Savage for the WWF title. In the UK - the main event was promoted as Bret Hart Vs Bulldog. Given the absolute masterpiece that match as it got Bret Hart sufficiently over enough to be considered to be the WWF company face. He was massive in Europe at the time (and still is to those who were WWF fans in the 1990s).

By the end of 1992, Bret was WWF champion and whilst things didnt improve in the USA, it did in Europe and some observers believe the WWF would have gone bankrupt if it wasn't for that market in Europe. The fact Bret was at or near the top for the next 5 years shows how big his appeal is to fans. Lets not forget too - that Bret rarely had a bad match during that time (and if he ever did it was down to his opponent either not being good at wrestling or not being over enough for the crowd to care).

Bret Hart is the greatest Canadian born wrestler because if it was not for Bret Hart, I doubt WWE would exist today.

End of.

Roddy Piper, Kevin Steen, Rick Martell, Owen Hart, Trish Stratus and the legends Edge and Christian are all excellent wrestlers too - and each contributed so much to the business. Kevin Steen has an exciting WWE career ahead too. Of course, if Chris Jericho was Canadian born he is up there just behind Bret Hart but he is not Canadian born... as this article requests.

On an aside issue - which Canadian has done the most for WWF/WWE behind the scenes over the years? Pat Patterson. Legend!!

 

[the_peoples_adam]

BRET HART has to be the greatest canadian born Wrestler of all time..

I would also go with OWEN HART coz if OWEN didn't pass away at that time he would have still been around here and may have become greater than BRET..

Next will be Y2J coz he can be up there equal to BRET for everything he has done..

Then EDGE of course he is the best during the PG Era..

Then Cristian..

 

[HBKperfect23]

Top 5 would have to be:
5) Owen
4) Benoit
3) Edge
2) Jericho

And the best ever being Bret. Jericho and Edge had great careers but I think Bret is the runaway winner here. I got into wrestling in mid-late 91 to watch Hogan. Early in 92 Bret became my favorite. The match with Roddy at mania pretty much sold me on Bret. Then came summerslam 92. I will argue to rhe end that Bret/Davey was the greatest match of all time. Bret came to play that night and the atmosphere was electric in Wembley. Brets world title run in 92 gets critized for not drawing but I think that's due to the change WWF was going through. I think it was an awesome run and it was nice seeing the champion wrestle on TV so often. King of the ring 93 saw 3 very different very good Matches, I prefer the match with Bam Bam, I think they really tore the house down. Bret in late 91-93 was one of the best runs ever.

In 97, Bret is insanely over in Can/Europe and over as a heel in the US. I immediately turned on Bret and hated him here. He played the role so well. To me this is where the attitude era started (early 97) and Bret played a huge role in it. I will even argue the U.S. vs Can feud was the best ever.

I know Bret didn't do well in WCW but I pretty much stopped watching before he got there and didn't get to see this. It's a shame how his career ended but it can't take away from how his run in WWF. I think Bret is the clear winner for Canadas best.

 

[xTheStraightEdgeAtheistx]

Hate to split hairs, but if I'm not mistaken, Jericho is actually American born so should he be on the poll?
I answered Bret. While I never found him "exciting" Bret was truly in a league of his own in regards to in ring ability. Everything he did was perfect, even how he threw a punch was excellent. Add the fact that he's almost royalty in Canada and he was a clear choice, at least in my books

 

[TDFG]

5. Edge
4. Owen Hart
3. Y2J (I don't care if he was born in USA).
2. Chris Benoit

1. Bret Hart. Other than his career ending in bad circumstances and his bitter feelings towards WWE from the screwjob, Bret Hart was the greatest technical wrestler to every step foot in the ring, it didn't matter if he was up against Nash, Sid, Benoit, Austin or Yokozuna, Bret Hart made me watch that match, it didn't matter whether he was a heel or a face either.

 

[whoopin' ass]

Roddy Piper - Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. Just look at how well respected he was in general by the wrestling community - one of the all time greats. I thin Bret Hart is the greatest who actually used his heritage as part of the gimmick but Piper is the tops.

 

[Ol'Canucklehead]

What? No love for Santino Marella? lol

5) Jacques Rougeau
4)Owen Hart
3)Chris Jericho
2)Roddy Piper

1) Bret "The Hitman" Hart - Still my favorite. I love his matches. Like someone already said, he made every one look good. Along with HBK, he put on the best match in the history of wrestling in the Iron Man match. His best promos were when he was mad and when he turned heel it was gold. If people bitch that his first run was lame, it's because there was nobody to put him over. Hogan refused and Flair would only do it in a non tv program. He was also, the first person to ever pin Piper. That's no small feat. He will always be "The best there is. The best there was. And the best there ever will be. And you know it!".

A notable mention for me would be Trish stratus. From an interview on Off The Record, to manager, to one of the best. She took the business seriously and put in the effort.

 

[Just Do It]

Bret was going to win this all along wasn't he. Deservedly so, he really is the best there ever will be, irrespective of where he comes from.

Edge gets a thumbs up also. A great man by so many reports from his peers, and in terms of just being a fan, he was so fun to watch for so many years.

 

[Goldie]

As an all rounder it has to be Bret Hart.
He wouldn't look out of place on all time top 10 list.

People may say he wasn't charismatic... but if so- why was he so popular?
In a world where most 'over wrestlers' were loud, cartoonish and boisterous - Hart seemed more real and human, someone the common fan could relate to.

Of course he was one of the best workers in the industry- he was an expert at structuring his matches and timing his comebacks.
Benoit edged it in terms of technical ability- but Bret beats him in every other area.
Owen too was an excellent wrestler, again some say Owen was more charismatic than Bret... but why couldn't he make it to the next level? Bret obviously had the ability to connect with the fans.

He as also a better draw the people give credit for. Who could seriously follow Hogan? That was an impossible act to follow. Bret was a steady draw in the USA- but also the most popular wrestler in Europe for many years and a national hero in Canada.

Looking at the decade as a whole- I would say that Hart was the wrestler of the 1990s.
Over the 1992-97 period (sans his 6 month break in 1996) he was also the WWEs top superstar.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I think sometimes people do not recall WWF history in the 1990's accurately.
Bret Hart had slowly started his rise to the top of WWF in 1991 when he beat Mr. Perfect.
Bret was already very well over with the fans. The major problem was the WWF was at its peak during the "Golden" era - and then Hulk Hogan went on TV and did The Arsenio Hall Show. This led to WWF going in to decline, because parents stopped letting their children watch (particularly in the USA). At the time Warrior then got suspended and fired, and left the WWF after Summerslam 1991 and when he returned he had lost a lot of weight. He no longer had the same aura about him and it made fans think he was in impostor. This, along with the disastrous Iraq sympathiser storyline, had WWF ratings, PPV figures and attendance way down.

At SummerSlam 1992, in the USA, the main event was promoted as Warrior vs Savage for the WWF title. In the UK - the main event was promoted as Bret Hart Vs Bulldog. Given the absolute masterpiece that match as it got Bret Hart sufficiently over enough to be considered to be the WWF company face. He was massive in Europe at the time (and still is to those who were WWF fans in the 1990s).

By the end of 1992, Bret was WWF champion and whilst things didnt improve in the USA, it did in Europe and some observers believe the WWF would have gone bankrupt if it wasn't for that market in Europe. The fact Bret was at or near the top for the next 5 years shows how big his appeal is to fans. Lets not forget too - that Bret rarely had a bad match during that time (and if he ever did it was down to his opponent either not being good at wrestling or not being over enough for the crowd to care).

Bret Hart is the greatest Canadian born wrestler because if it was not for Bret Hart, I doubt WWE would exist today.

End of.

Roddy Piper, Kevin Steen, Rick Martell, Owen Hart, Trish Stratus and the legends Edge and Christian are all excellent wrestlers too - and each contributed so much to the business. Kevin Steen has an exciting WWE career ahead too. Of course, if Chris Jericho was Canadian born he is up there just behind Bret Hart but he is not Canadian born... as this article requests.

On an aside issue - which Canadian has done the most for WWF/WWE behind the scenes over the years? Pat Patterson. Legend!!

There is one big flaw with this theory, even though it's nearly accurate.

DAVEY WAS JUST AS OVER!!! In both the US AND Europe in 1991/1992 - to the point where he was used alongside Hogan and Warrior as one of the 3 playable characters on the computer game that came out and was regularly featured on merch alongside those two and Savage.

Bret was popular no doubt, but had Davey not been sucked into the Warrior scandal in 1992, it would probably have been he to took the World title and he and Bret headline Mania 9...

Bret's popularity in other countries helped but Davey was equal before he was fired... he lost that momentum after so never quite got over again to the same level but the sheer number of runs he got proves Vince saw money in him and he drew.

As to the topic,

Of the veterans mentioned, none of them actually took the business anywhere - guys like Whipper Billy or Mad Dog Vachon were not THAT successful in terms of the business as a whole, they just were good enough to be ALWAYS employable... which is very different. If a Vachon goes on the list it's Vivian! Also, if someone like Mad Dog deserves to be on the list, so does John "Earthquake" Tenta or Robert Maillet/Kurgann who had moster heel runs that drew as much in terms of dollar or post wrestling movie work in Maillet's case than Vachon ever made.

Jericho I think can pass in this as he's technically a dual citizen or was for most of his life/career. I agree with him being top 3 but Bret is still above him as he was the trailblazer... Jericho never gets a look-in if Bret doesn't move over to that World title.

There are a lot of candidates for a top 5 overall, in some ways it's matchups...


Rick Martel v Jacques Rougeau

Two of the best ever produced by Canada and equally strong as face or heel. Jacques got an IC title while Martel got an AWA World title - he was the first Canadian to win a modern era World title so deserves the spot - Bronko Nagurski and Whipper both had the "original" World title, so it's not strictly the same thing... and to be honest you'd be nearer calling them the UFC champs of their day. You'd have a fair stab at calling Jacques that too for his famed KO on Dynamite Kid... but even with that and a pinfall over Hogan, he never got to the top... and the AWA title WAS major when Rick had it... So Martel goes in 5th...

Lance Storm v Edge

Storm was the MUCH better wrestler, but didn't have half the success Edge did, be it through push, luck or the wrong decision to go to WCW in the mid 1990's for Storm... Edge got the breaks but he'd be the first to say Storm was a better worker. But Edge remains one of the few guys to not only "do it all in WWE" but actually make a career outside via acting, so that puts him 4th.

We already know 3 (Jericho) and 2 (Bret) so it comes down to the final position... it won't be a popular decision but it's a truthful triple threat...

Chris Benot vs Roddy Piper vs Pat Patterson

3 of the most controversial guys in the business ever, each with innate talent... Benoit gained notoriety in death but until that last weekend he would have walked this poll.

Our modern era doesn't happen without Piper, he was one of THE major players for over 2 decades and redefined what it was possible to do in terms of promos and character... but in honesty? He was an average worker at best - so he's the first eliminated here... he gets a worthy 6th overall however.

Say what you want but NO ONE has influenced the business more than Patt Patterson... in the San Francisco territory he and Ray Stevens were THE template heels that guys like Bret and Piper grew up watching and later learning from in his backstage role in WWE. He was the guy chosen to be the first IC champion, not cos he was mega over but cos he set the tone for the IC belt, that it was a workhorse title that would be contested in blood feuds...his feud with Slaughter in 81 was the template for all those heated IC feuds going forward with guys like Tito/Valentine/JYD, Bret & Perfect and Shawn and Razor.

Backstage the guy has been responsible for more history than you can even imagine... more finishes in the classic era, booking of matches, hirings made and yes, some controversy that many would prefer to forget in the early 1990's.

Bret is good, he knows he is - but he also knows 90% of what got him over in WWE was down to Pat Patterson's mind - he could and did toil for years until Pat took over from George Scott as Vince's #2... the guys that were putting him over in the ring learned their heel mojo from watching Pat Patterson or having worked with him....

So Pat emerges victorious as the greatest EVER Canadian wrestler...

Benoit get's put down to about one below every other living Canadian guy... that's his legacy sadly...

 

[MrMojoRisin]

There is one big flaw with this theory, even though it's nearly accurate.

DAVEY WAS JUST AS OVER!!! In both the US AND Europe in 1991/1992 - to the point where he was used alongside Hogan and Warrior as one of the 3 playable characters on the computer game that came out and was regularly featured on merch alongside those two and Savage.

Bret was popular no doubt, but had Davey not been sucked into the Warrior scandal in 1992, it would probably have been he to took the World title and he and Bret headline Mania 9...

Bret's popularity in other countries helped but Davey was equal before he was fired... he lost that momentum after so never quite got over again to the same level but the sheer number of runs he got proves Vince saw money in him and he drew.

As to the topic,

Of the veterans mentioned, none of them actually took the business anywhere - guys like Whipper Billy or Mad Dog Vachon were not THAT successful in terms of the business as a whole, they just were good enough to be ALWAYS employable... which is very different. If a Vachon goes on the list it's Vivian! Also, if someone like Mad Dog deserves to be on the list, so does John "Earthquake" Tenta or Robert Maillet/Kurgann who had moster heel runs that drew as much in terms of dollar or post wrestling movie work in Maillet's case than Vachon ever made.

Jericho I think can pass in this as he's technically a dual citizen or was for most of his life/career. I agree with him being top 3 but Bret is still above him as he was the trailblazer... Jericho never gets a look-in if Bret doesn't move over to that World title.

There are a lot of candidates for a top 5 overall, in some ways it's matchups...


Rick Martel v Jacques Rougeau

Two of the best ever produced by Canada and equally strong as face or heel. Jacques got an IC title while Martel got an AWA World title - he was the first Canadian to win a modern era World title so deserves the spot - Bronko Nagurski and Whipper both had the "original" World title, so it's not strictly the same thing... and to be honest you'd be nearer calling them the UFC champs of their day. You'd have a fair stab at calling Jacques that too for his famed KO on Dynamite Kid... but even with that and a pinfall over Hogan, he never got to the top... and the AWA title WAS major when Rick had it... So Martel goes in 5th...

Lance Storm v Edge

Storm was the MUCH better wrestler, but didn't have half the success Edge did, be it through push, luck or the wrong decision to go to WCW in the mid 1990's for Storm... Edge got the breaks but he'd be the first to say Storm was a better worker. But Edge remains one of the few guys to not only "do it all in WWE" but actually make a career outside via acting, so that puts him 4th.

We already know 3 (Jericho) and 2 (Bret) so it comes down to the final position... it won't be a popular decision but it's a truthful triple threat...

Chris Benot vs Roddy Piper vs Pat Patterson

3 of the most controversial guys in the business ever, each with innate talent... Benoit gained notoriety in death but until that last weekend he would have walked this poll.

Our modern era doesn't happen without Piper, he was one of THE major players for over 2 decades and redefined what it was possible to do in terms of promos and character... but in honesty? He was an average worker at best - so he's the first eliminated here... he gets a worthy 6th overall however.

Say what you want but NO ONE has influenced the business more than Patt Patterson... in the San Francisco territory he and Ray Stevens were THE template heels that guys like Bret and Piper grew up watching and later learning from in his backstage role in WWE. He was the guy chosen to be the first IC champion, not cos he was mega over but cos he set the tone for the IC belt, that it was a workhorse title that would be contested in blood feuds...his feud with Slaughter in 81 was the template for all those heated IC feuds going forward with guys like Tito/Valentine/JYD, Bret & Perfect and Shawn and Razor.

Backstage the guy has been responsible for more history than you can even imagine... more finishes in the classic era, booking of matches, hirings made and yes, some controversy that many would prefer to forget in the early 1990's.

Bret is good, he knows he is - but he also knows 90% of what got him over in WWE was down to Pat Patterson's mind - he could and did toil for years until Pat took over from George Scott as Vince's #2... the guys that were putting him over in the ring learned their heel mojo from watching Pat Patterson or having worked with him....

So Pat emerges victorious as the greatest EVER Canadian wrestler...

Benoit get's put down to about one below every other living Canadian guy... that's his legacy sadly...

I know you're a huge Davey Boy Smith mark, but really?

Bulldog was never going to be the post-Hogan champion for a few reasons.

- he wasn't 'sucked into' the Warrior scandal... it was a steroid scandal and Smith was one of the most obvious and flagrant steroid abusers in the company.
- he could work a very good match with the right opponent, but unlike his brother in law, he couldn't do it with everyone. That was one of the main qualities they were looking for when they settled on Bret. Bulldog would have had to have been heavily protected in this regard, while Hart's first several months as champ saw him promoted across the country against an extremely wide range of challengers, each of whom he was expected to have good matches with
- Bulldog had a drug problem that was well known. Not the steroids. Recreational drugs. Not a chance in hell that McMahon was ever going to put the title on someone who could very easily have gotten busted for drug use at any time.

Yeah there were many reasons he kept getting brought back and almost always in good positions on the card. There was a lot to like about the guy. That doesn't mean that he was ever a guy they considered to be champ.

As for what you're saying about this greatest Canadian thing? I get that you don't know much about the business before you started watching. If you're saying that guys like Billy Watson and Mad Dog Vachon were just good enough to be employable, while putting guys like Kurgan or Lance Storm above them, that's obvious. But please do not go around spreading your ignorance here like fact.

Whipper Billy Watson was one of the most famous Canadian born wrestlers of his generation. For the time, you could easily put his fame on the level of Bret Hart's in his time.

When I started watching wrestling in the 80's, I asked my dad if we could get tickets to see the WWF when they came to town. The Bulldogs were fighting the Hart Foundation, and I had to see it. My dad was never a wrestling fan. Never watched it. Never cared for it. Thought it was phony. When I asked him about going to see wrestling, the first thing he said though? You mean like Whipper Billy Watson?

So here's a guy who never watched this stuff. Didn't ever think about it. Yet 25 years after the guy was around, still immediately recalled the name Whipper Billy Watson.

Now does that sound to you like someone who never took the business anywhere, or wasn't that successful?

As for Vachon? One of the most famous wrestlers of all time. You can still find kids that know the name, even though it's been decades since he competed. Even though it's been years since he passed away. Sure he was never WWWF champion. Sure he didn't fit the model for the NWA champ. But he was an AWA talent, and ironically enough for how that territory turned out, in his time the championship was probably booked the closest to a modern title as anything from that era. He held it 5 times. In an era where multiple title reigns were a rarity, and where legit, respected amateurs (shooters) like Lou Thesz and Verne Gagne were the only guys capable of winning 3, 4, 5 or more World championships... Mad Dog Vachon was right there with them as a 5 time World Champion. Or to put it this way, Vachon's 5... would probably be the equivalent of Triple H's 13 today.

And you put guys like Lance Storm (the epitomy of a guy who was good enough to stay employed), and Kurgan (a guy who had more success in acting) above them?

Finally your argument that Pat Patterson is the greatest Canadian 'wrestler'? While using example after example of his work backstage?

Don't get me wrong. Pat was great, and his run with Ray Stevens in San Francisco was incredible. But I have a very hard time calling him the greatest Canada's produced. Especially with the criteria you're using that bumps up guys like Kurgan over Billy Watson.

There were quite a few guys from Canada who had more successful careers as a wrestler than Patterson. Pat had an incredible career behind the scenes, and definitely left the type of lasting mark there that few do in any profession, but if we're going to call Pat Canada's greatest wrestler, then we might as well call Vince McMahon America's greatest wrestler. Shirley Crabtree can be the UK's greatest too then (sorry Davey).

No, I think you have to give Canada's greatest to Bret Hart. I would actually include both Watson and Vachon in the top 5. It's hard not to include Gene Kiniski or Killer Kowalski. Piper's hard to leave off. Don Jardine doesn't make top 5, but could be top 10. Then you've got your contemporaries like Jericho, Edge, Christian, Owen Hart. You made a good call by including Martel. I can think of a few people who would love to see Sweet Daddy Siki on this list.

I guess my top 5 would be this

1 - Bret Hart
2 - Gene Kiniski
3 - Whipper Billy Watson
4 - Rowdy Roddy Piper
5 - Mad Dog Vachon

 

[Just Do It]

Whipper Billy Watson was one of the most famous Canadian born wrestlers of his generation. For the time, you could easily put his fame on the level of Bret Hart's in his time.

Never heard of this old timer and I'm about as big a mark as you can get.

 

[Waylon Mercy]

I voted one way, but in my heart I felt another. Then I had to re-think my heartfelt favourite, and now I am not so sure after all. Initially I voted for Y2J, forgetting that he was actually born in the US (but spent his formative years in Canada). I voted for him based on the fact that he still goes on after all these years with big breaks in between and shows no sign of ring rust. He is a MVP in all senses of the word.
Of course then, there is Bret Hart. He brought out the best in each and every one of his opponents. He lived and breathed wrestling, and it showed through each and every one of his matches. He broke the glass ceiling for the so-called "small guys", and as a result the floodgates opened up for guys like Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, and Kurt Angle. He was truly a Canadian hero, and was mine too for all those years.
And then we have Rowdy Roddy Piper. While he was never gifted technically, he was explosive, and thrilling to watch. Just last night I was watching some of his highly underrated work in Georgia Championship Wrestling (just before he went to the WWE and made history with Hulk Hogan). I highly recommend searching this stuff out, especially when he slowly turned baby face to protect Gordon Solie from Don Muraco. This was all taped live in a small studio with an audience, and it made things feel that much more precarious and palpable. I actually think this was where Piper truly cut his teeth, and thereby went on to become a legend.
So, in a nutshell, by process of elimination (Jericho being out for his country of birth) I have to give it to Bret Hart and Rowdy Roddy Piper. Bret gets the edge for being more of a well-rounded performer. He may not have had the flair on the mic that Piper had, but he told so many great stories in the ring. I guess also, that it is not so coincidental that both men could count one of their greatest matches as the one they had against each other at Wrestlemania VIII.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I know you're a huge Davey Boy Smith mark, but really?

Bulldog was never going to be the post-Hogan champion for a few reasons.

- he wasn't 'sucked into' the Warrior scandal... it was a steroid scandal and Smith was one of the most obvious and flagrant steroid abusers in the company.
- he could work a very good match with the right opponent, but unlike his brother in law, he couldn't do it with everyone. That was one of the main qualities they were looking for when they settled on Bret. Bulldog would have had to have been heavily protected in this regard, while Hart's first several months as champ saw him promoted across the country against an extremely wide range of challengers, each of whom he was expected to have good matches with
- Bulldog had a drug problem that was well known. Not the steroids. Recreational drugs. Not a chance in hell that McMahon was ever going to put the title on someone who could very easily have gotten busted for drug use at any time.

Yeah there were many reasons he kept getting brought back and almost always in good positions on the card. There was a lot to like about the guy. That doesn't mean that he was ever a guy they considered to be champ.

As for what you're saying about this greatest Canadian thing? I get that you don't know much about the business before you started watching. If you're saying that guys like Billy Watson and Mad Dog Vachon were just good enough to be employable, while putting guys like Kurgan or Lance Storm above them, that's obvious. But please do not go around spreading your ignorance here like fact.

Whipper Billy Watson was one of the most famous Canadian born wrestlers of his generation. For the time, you could easily put his fame on the level of Bret Hart's in his time.

When I started watching wrestling in the 80's, I asked my dad if we could get tickets to see the WWF when they came to town. The Bulldogs were fighting the Hart Foundation, and I had to see it. My dad was never a wrestling fan. Never watched it. Never cared for it. Thought it was phony. When I asked him about going to see wrestling, the first thing he said though? You mean like Whipper Billy Watson?

So here's a guy who never watched this stuff. Didn't ever think about it. Yet 25 years after the guy was around, still immediately recalled the name Whipper Billy Watson.

Now does that sound to you like someone who never took the business anywhere, or wasn't that successful?

As for Vachon? One of the most famous wrestlers of all time. You can still find kids that know the name, even though it's been decades since he competed. Even though it's been years since he passed away. Sure he was never WWWF champion. Sure he didn't fit the model for the NWA champ. But he was an AWA talent, and ironically enough for how that territory turned out, in his time the championship was probably booked the closest to a modern title as anything from that era. He held it 5 times. In an era where multiple title reigns were a rarity, and where legit, respected amateurs (shooters) like Lou Thesz and Verne Gagne were the only guys capable of winning 3, 4, 5 or more World championships... Mad Dog Vachon was right there with them as a 5 time World Champion. Or to put it this way, Vachon's 5... would probably be the equivalent of Triple H's 13 today.

And you put guys like Lance Storm (the epitomy of a guy who was good enough to stay employed), and Kurgan (a guy who had more success in acting) above them?

Finally your argument that Pat Patterson is the greatest Canadian 'wrestler'? While using example after example of his work backstage?

Don't get me wrong. Pat was great, and his run with Ray Stevens in San Francisco was incredible. But I have a very hard time calling him the greatest Canada's produced. Especially with the criteria you're using that bumps up guys like Kurgan over Billy Watson.

There were quite a few guys from Canada who had more successful careers as a wrestler than Patterson. Pat had an incredible career behind the scenes, and definitely left the type of lasting mark there that few do in any profession, but if we're going to call Pat Canada's greatest wrestler, then we might as well call Vince McMahon America's greatest wrestler. Shirley Crabtree can be the UK's greatest too then (sorry Davey).

No, I think you have to give Canada's greatest to Bret Hart. I would actually include both Watson and Vachon in the top 5. It's hard not to include Gene Kiniski or Killer Kowalski. Piper's hard to leave off. Don Jardine doesn't make top 5, but could be top 10. Then you've got your contemporaries like Jericho, Edge, Christian, Owen Hart. You made a good call by including Martel. I can think of a few people who would love to see Sweet Daddy Siki on this list.

I guess my top 5 would be this

1 - Bret Hart
2 - Gene Kiniski
3 - Whipper Billy Watson
4 - Rowdy Roddy Piper
5 - Mad Dog Vachon

First off... you're the one showing ignorance my friend, not reading points completely... I made CLEAR reference to the fact that Whipper and Bronko held the ORIGINAL World title... not the title that was held by later guys... it is not the same situation - they held a SHOOT title... others since have held a pure worked title. They worked in an early era BEFORE the one we are discussing - it is not right, sane or acceptable to compare them in the same way you can't put a UFC guy allowed to shoot against a wrestler who isn't in the same match... If I only understood the "modern era" I wouldn't know that... and you conveniently ignore that point to score a cheap point you think you won!

Someone like Kowalski... on balance he maybe influenced a couple of heels himself over the years, but again he didn't make it count on the worldwide stage... how many people today only know who he is cos he trained Trips? He's the guy a lot of guys since went back and watched, rather than the originator like Patterson was.

As to your point on Vachon, as respected as he may be, he was NOT of the level required to be among the greats - he was of a similar level to Piper, in that he could be a heat magnet and a guy you could put into the odd main event feud but he was not the guy you hung your company on or who got WORLDWIDE plaudits, he was your Semi Final monster. It's also very easy to run a territory and book yourself as such, occasionally venturing into America for paydays...

Someone like Edge or Jericho both played heel equally well or better at points and did MORE globally with it... like I said if you want a Vachon in the conversation it is Vivian who really DID make an impact... they made a movie about her after all... I notice you ignored that point.

Pat as winner is not about him winning or not winning a World title... it is about the overall impact and influence on the business of professional wrestling and those in it since his heyday. Bret, Jericho and Edge all had more money, more draw and more storied careers in terms of achievements and titles... but they didn't get to the races without a Pat Patterson going before them and going to bat for them. WWE didn't "do" the kind of blood feuds until Patterson and Slaughter... they even botched Bruno v Zybysko... it was Pat who brought that knowledge to the company and for all the cartoon side of things VKM brought when he took over, it was Pat who helped make it compelling TV and shows, who put those finishes and angles together.... and even got the highest segment in the Attitude era at the time as a stooge... Patterson KNOWS wrestling far better than you or I do....and those we grew up watching grew up watching him!

My points are all valid - guys like Curt Hennig, Rick Rude, Bret Hart, Piper all took their heel cues from Pat Patterson. In the ring he was the definitive (French) Canadian worker in the US for a long time and parlayed that into being the booking brains behind the vast majority of the era that got the WWF to where it did... and those aforementioned talents to their peak... Vince didn't book it, Pat did...

It's easy to put the Beatles and Stones as #1 and #2 and argue forever... reality is it's really Chuck Berry who deserves the spot cos neither exist without his influence... Whipper Watson would be a Glenn Miller in that equation... for a time the top but once the fashion changed it was gone forever...

 

[Bernkastel]

Just some minor corrections here.

First off... you're the one showing ignorance my friend, not reading points completely... I made CLEAR reference to the fact that Whipper and Bronko held the ORIGINAL World title...

Bronko held the original world title, Billy did not. By the time Whipper Watson won it from Thesz the NWA had control over the belt. And the original world title ceased being a genuine "shoot" title after Frank Gotch dropped it. And even then I question how genuine it was as a bonafide shoot title. You'd have to travel back before even Hack to find championships that were purely shoot and involved no works.

not the title that was held by later guys... it is not the same situation - they held a SHOOT title... others since have held a pure worked title.

It was not a pure shoot title.

They worked in an early era BEFORE the one we are discussing - it is not right, sane or acceptable to compare them in the same way you can't put a UFC guy allowed to shoot against a wrestler who isn't in the same match... If I only understood the "modern era" I wouldn't know that... and you conveniently ignore that point to score a cheap point you think you won!

Works in wrestling [like scripted works] date back to the 1920's. Actually they date back before that too. Wrestlers were not allowed to shoot on other wrestlers if it went against the script. If one wrestler shot on another, then it was a double cross. Those were common place up til about the mid 1960's or so.

When you refer to modern era vs pre modern era you're referring to when the industry began revealing all of its insider secrets, as to when kayfabe and whatnot was still closely guarded.

Fundamentally speaking there's nothing that Bret Hart would have done or would not have done as a worker that Whipper Watson, Yvon Robert, or Gene Kiniski did or did not do as workers.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

First off... you're the one showing ignorance my friend, not reading points completely... I made CLEAR reference to the fact that Whipper and Bronko held the ORIGINAL World title... not the title that was held by later guys... it is not the same situation - they held a SHOOT title... others since have held a pure worked title. They worked in an early era BEFORE the one we are discussing - it is not right, sane or acceptable to compare them in the same way you can't put a UFC guy allowed to shoot against a wrestler who isn't in the same match... If I only understood the "modern era" I wouldn't know that... and you conveniently ignore that point to score a cheap point you think you won!

Someone like Kowalski... on balance he maybe influenced a couple of heels himself over the years, but again he didn't make it count on the worldwide stage... how many people today only know who he is cos he trained Trips? He's the guy a lot of guys since went back and watched, rather than the originator like Patterson was.

As to your point on Vachon, as respected as he may be, he was NOT of the level required to be among the greats - he was of a similar level to Piper, in that he could be a heat magnet and a guy you could put into the odd main event feud but he was not the guy you hung your company on or who got WORLDWIDE plaudits, he was your Semi Final monster. It's also very easy to run a territory and book yourself as such, occasionally venturing into America for paydays...

Someone like Edge or Jericho both played heel equally well or better at points and did MORE globally with it... like I said if you want a Vachon in the conversation it is Vivian who really DID make an impact... they made a movie about her after all... I notice you ignored that point.

Pat as winner is not about him winning or not winning a World title... it is about the overall impact and influence on the business of professional wrestling and those in it since his heyday. Bret, Jericho and Edge all had more money, more draw and more storied careers in terms of achievements and titles... but they didn't get to the races without a Pat Patterson going before them and going to bat for them. WWE didn't "do" the kind of blood feuds until Patterson and Slaughter... they even botched Bruno v Zybysko... it was Pat who brought that knowledge to the company and for all the cartoon side of things VKM brought when he took over, it was Pat who helped make it compelling TV and shows, who put those finishes and angles together.... and even got the highest segment in the Attitude era at the time as a stooge... Patterson KNOWS wrestling far better than you or I do....and those we grew up watching grew up watching him!

My points are all valid - guys like Curt Hennig, Rick Rude, Bret Hart, Piper all took their heel cues from Pat Patterson. In the ring he was the definitive (French) Canadian worker in the US for a long time and parlayed that into being the booking brains behind the vast majority of the era that got the WWF to where it did... and those aforementioned talents to their peak... Vince didn't book it, Pat did...

It's easy to put the Beatles and Stones as #1 and #2 and argue forever... reality is it's really Chuck Berry who deserves the spot cos neither exist without his influence... Whipper Watson would be a Glenn Miller in that equation... for a time the top but once the fashion changed it was gone forever...

You might want to take back your claim that I'M the one showing ignorance here.

Professional wrestling stopped being a 'shoot' probably around the 1920's, before Billy Watson was even a teenager. There's no real exact date, but I suggest you watch the Unreal Story of Professional Wrestling. A fantastic documentary that chronicles wrestling's history from it's beginnings straight up to present day when it was produced (late 90's).

So Whipper Billy Watson never won a 'shoot' title, and what he did was no different than what every single wrestler you've ever watched did. It was just during a different time.

Besides, do you understand why I even said anything to you about Watson or Vachon? I won't argue their place among the greats to you here, because it's not the topic for it, and you seem pretty indocterned into the whole present day global company as opposed to the completely different business structure that those you don't consider to be greats worked in. But that's not what we were talking about.

You characterized both as guys who were just good enough to be employable, and lauded guys like Kurgan and Lance Storm as having had better careers than them. THAT my friend, is pure ignorance. Storm was exactly what you said they were. Someone good enough to be employable, but nothing more. Kurgan? The guy was the drizzling shits.

Your points on Patterson still don't change though. He was a great booker. A great wrestling mind. A great teacher. But everything that you're saying makes him the greatest Canadian WRESTLER, are all of his contributions outside of the ring.

Scotty Bowman is arguably the greatest coach in NHL history. He wasn't a great hockey player though. Pat Patterson was a good wrestler. But if he stopped once he hung up the boots, no one on a board like this would even remember him today.

In fact, here's a test in that regard. His partner was a better wrestler, but he did stop once he hung up his boots. How many people here do you think even know who I'm talking about? Or know much about him even if they do?

 

[Goldie]

DAVEY WAS JUST AS OVER!!! In both the US AND Europe in 1991/1992 - to the point where he was used alongside Hogan and Warrior as one of the 3 playable characters on the computer game that came out and was regularly featured on merch alongside those two and Savage.

Bret was popular no doubt, but had Davey not been sucked into the Warrior scandal in 1992, it would probably have been he to took the World title and he and Bret headline Mania 9...

Bret's popularity in other countries helped but Davey was equal before he was fired... he lost that momentum after so never quite got over again to the same level but the sheer number of runs he got proves Vince saw money in him and he drew.

Now I'm English and obviously a Davey fan... though he wouldn't have been Vinces pick to build the company around had he stayed in 1992.
I recall Davey frequently being ranked in the lower top 10 by all the magazines circa 1991-92 (aside from his IC title run)... which is about right... an upper midcarder who feuded (and usually got the upper hand) with other midcadrers. However he never got a sniff at a heel Flairs world title and came up short in a fued with Curt Hening in 1991.
His thick Lancashire accent was a deterrent- people might knock Brets mic skills but he was much better than Davey. I honestly think his sub-par mic skills would have held him back if the American audience struggled with it.

Daveys chance with the world title (which I still think is a shame he didn't win) would have more likely come in 1996-96 with his heel run. With a weakish roster at the time Davey was able to crack into that main event bracket for a good year, challenging Bret, Shawn and Diesels world titles.
However when the PPV numbers didn't add up he was thrown into the tag team divisions with Owen.
Now Davey is certainly HOF worthy, and he's better than half the guys in there... but I think Bret was the better choice to go with.
With the steroid scandal about to hit... had he not been busted- his physique would have also likely shrunk (not a bad thing really as the 245 pound Davey of the 1980s was very agile).

As to the topic,

Backstage the guy has been responsible for more history than you can even imagine... more finishes in the classic era, booking of matches, hirings made and yes, some controversy that many would prefer to forget in the early 1990's.

Bret is good, he knows he is - but he also knows 90% of what got him over in WWE was down to Pat Patterson's mind - he could and did toil for years until Pat took over from George Scott as Vince's #2... the guys that were putting him over in the ring learned their heel mojo from watching Pat Patterson or having worked with him....

So Pat emerges victorious as the greatest EVER Canadian wrestler...

Pat has a good in ring career and has a brilliant mind for the business... however his backstage influence, booking and creativity make him the greatest backstage Canadian advisor ever.
Bret Hart made a much bigger stamp on the business (wait for it)... as a wrestler.

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

It's Bret, It has to be Bret. I'm not going to go all the way back and talk about guys that I don't know a thing about but of any Canadian wrestler who was on top from the 80s and onward, Bret is really the only guy that had a major promotion centered around him.

Piper was great, as was Edge and Jericho, but Bret is on that top tier of stars with guys like Hogan, Flair, Shawn, Austin, Rock, Brock and Cena. Guys who at different times were the focal point of a major organization.