The Greatest and Worst Champions of all time

[Attitude]

The fact is Hogan was the greatest of all-time, and anyone will tell you that. Austin had one hell of a three year run, but even at Austin's peak, you can't say he reached a higher level than Hogan. You could maybe say Hogan and Austin's peaks rivaled each other, but you can't say Austin was greater. But when you look at the fact Hogan did it two different times, as two different characters, as heel and face, in two different companies in two different parts of the country, and did it for nearly 20 years....it's obvious Hogan was just a greater champion than Austin.

That's just it Austin's and Hogan's peaks rivalred each other. Just like you say you can't say Austin is better than Hogan you can't say Hogan is better than Austin. Austin is by far the biggest thing since Hogan. I think what's really happening right here is who has a preference for who. I like Austin better. You are obiviously a Hogan fan. Although I find a lot of flaws with your argument I'm not arguing with you. I'm not taking anything away from Hogan. I just think Austin is better. I respect your opinion. However I think we need to agree to disagree. I'm going to end my argument but somebody else can argue with you.

 

[Slyfox696]

That's just it Austin's and Hogan's peaks rivalred each other. Just like you say you can't say Austin is better than Hogan you can't say Hogan is better than Austin.

Well, actually, I think I could, but that's where my argument lies. My argument lies in the fact that while Austin did it for three years, Hogan did it for nearly 20. Gale Sayers was a great running back, but Walter Payton is the Bear everyone considers the greatest.

After all, The Ultimate Warrior was mega popular for two full years...are we going to include him as well? Hogan was great for 20 years, that's why he gets my vote.

 

[One to Remember]

wrestling is not the house that hogan built. How many random dumb boobs off the street who despise wrestling would alsoknow who hogan is? What has Hogan done for TNA and what did Hogan do for the AWA? Not as much as Bockwinkel or even Hennig. But the bullshit right here, shown in this thread is why i cant stand the fact that wrestling is a fake sport. The fact that we got guys on here postin that "wrestlers wouldn't have food on their plates" w/out Hogan to me is disrespectful and out of line as well as a gross exaggeration. What would have happened to wresling if hogan died or got hurt? would wrestling then become exstinct? i mean you all in ths thread are fiding waysto link Hogan to every success. now someone is saying Sting wasn't a draw for WCW UNTIL he turned dark crow, and thats because of the NWO which was nothing without hogan because hall n nash couldnt do it alone.. yea you have some 20 year old Bret quote but a lot of other wrestlers feel different. Asfar as him puting over Goldberg i think if he wasnt willing goldberg would had just done a shoot on his ass and destroyed him eitherway.

by the way I am still a huge fan of Hollywood Hogan..
Oh and as far as Bash at the Beach is concerned WCW was in trouble, the fans would had cheered Ray Traylor and Barry Horiwitz if they had came out too.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

No, it's not.

You need to watch more Savage then. A good and easy place to start is his feud with Jake Roberts.

Since when has losing to someone counted as changing the business? Who said it did? Wasn't me.



He's the reason there was a war. Before Hogan, there WAS no war, it was the WWF kicking ass. Finally, when Hogan was in WCW, he was already in his mid 40s. And, again, the reason the WWF defeated the WCW was NOT because of battle between Austin and Hogan, there was MUCH more going on than that, particularly in the WCW parent company. Go do some research.

As opposed to Austin, whom Vince McMahon shares no credit?

Vince McMahon is the REASON Austin worked as well as he did. To dismiss Hogan's Wrestlemania accomplishment because of McMahon, while praising Austin's greatness makes you look stupid.


So, you're not in your teens, but you didn't watch wrestling when Hogan was the ultimate babyface. So my earlier comment about your age actually does come true, although not because of your age, but rather when you started watching wrestling. Do you see now how many of these arguments I've had, when I can guess the approximate time of when you started wrestling?

And no, the WWF was not a global company before Wrestlemania. They were mostly a regional promotion.

Well, WCW made their comeback against the WWF with Hogan at the lead.

Why do you keep using one set of criteria to dismiss Hogan while praising Austin? Austin did NOTHING Hogan didn't do.

Are you kidding me? Hogan elevated everyone he feuded with. Hell, he got an old and decrepit Roddy Piper as a believable main-eventer. The one time Sting was ever a major draw was against Hogan. Luger's biggest drawing days were against Hogan. Hogan made Hall and Nash into bona-fide superstars. Hogan made The Giant (Big Show).

Your argument is terrible.

I doubt it, but let's see.



Hogan didn't revolutionize the business with Savage. While Hogan was working his famous match with Andre (in his 3rd year as champion), Savage was working the midcard title match. Savage had nothing to do with Hogan's incredible popularity and drawing power. And as far as Rock/Austin goes, Rock was over big by 1999. That gave Austin a grand total of about a year and a half without Rock. And it wasn't until The Rock came into his own that the WWF REALLY became huge.

You mean the Attitude Era, right? Yeah, that was actually started in WCW, with the nWo. You know, the group that was led by Hogan. The whole concept of the Attitude Era was to market to an older fan, the now beloved 18-34 male demographic. It was only after WCW was kicking the WWF's ass that McMahon began to change his product.

Hogan and the WCW was responsible for Attitude, not Austin.




No, just no. Like I said, Austin did it for 3 years, Hogan did it for 20. Hogan did it feuding with guys like fuckin' Kamala and Zeus. Austin had Hall of Famers Foley, Rock, Triple H, etc. to draw with.


Only because of the merchandising machine which was CREATED by Hulkamania. Seriously, why are people so blind to Hogan's greatness.

When Hogan was in his heyday, merchandise was purchased in send-away catalogs. When Austin came through, you could buy wrestling shirts in every store and mall across the country. If Hogan had the merchandising machine Austin did, Austin wouldn't have come close to touching Hogan's sales, not in three years.

What records are you talking about? The WWE makes more money from merchandise now than they did ten years ago. Hogan drew 93,000 fans to the Pontiac Silverdome, a record I believe still stands for the WWF. What records does Austin supposedly have?

And if it wasn't for Hogan, the WWF wouldn't have needed saving. Are you seriously this ignorant?

When Hogan was in the WWF, they fucking KILLED the NWA, which in 1988, included WCW. When Hogan went to WCW in '94, they were flat out bleeding money from every orifice. Bischoff even states it in his book, if I'm not mistaken, that at the same time Hogan came to WCW, WCW began making a profit. In two years, Hogan's WCW had the WWF on its knees on the verge of bankruptcy. And had Bret Hart not gotten screwed over by Vince McMahon, there's no telling what would have happened to the WWF.

Austin was on his way to stardom, everyone knew that. But it wasn't until his feud with McMahon that the WWF started steamrolling. By that time, WCW had proven they didn't have a clever wrestling bone in their body, they were getting handicapped by their parent company and their television producers, and their product started to go downhill.

The nWo gets credit for making bad guys get cool. While Steve Austin was busy playing Ted DiBiases lackey, the nWo shirts were on their way to being the most purchased shirt in the history of wrestling.

Credit for bad guys being cool goes to Hall and Nash, not Steve Austin.

I did, but it wasn't a contradiction, it was facts. Do you people know what the word "revolutionize" mean?

Let me ask you this. Before Hogan's nWo heel run, what kind of draw was Sting? The answer is "a marginal one". And hey, I'm as big of a Sting fan as there is, but even I know that. It was ONLY because of Hogan and the nWo that Sting was as hot as he was. And by the time Goldberg came along, Hogan and the WCW had already turned the wrestling business on its head.

It wasn't a contradiction, it just requires you to understand that popularity and revolutionary are not the same word.

Except for Sting, Goldberg, Luger, Big Show (The Giant), Hall, Nash, and Eric Bischoff.

But hey, he should have done more in those 3 years, right?

Hogan doesn't need us to know how great he is. Here, you can read it from Bret Hart.


Source: http://www.brethart.com/bio/columns/tribute-hulk-hogan

But hey, I guess Bret Hart is just a fanboy too, huh?

I agree completely. A great champion is defined by how many people he can get to lay money down to watch him.

Which makes Hogan the undisputed best. Really don't see how hard this is to understand.

No, but he was the one who was drawing the big money. You want to question that? Take it up with Bret Hart.

Wait...why would you say McEnroe? Because...he was an entertaining personality who made people watch his matches? Just say yes, and realize you tripped yourself up.

The reason you ask people on the street is because just proves how BIG Hulkamania was in the 80s.

And he's known by everyone who watches wrestling as well. Which proves how great he is.

So you agree Hogan is the greatest champion ever.

I mean, what else do you want from the guy? He made King Kong Bundy look credible. He put the fucking Big Bossman over. He made Zeus a monster. He built Kamala. He took some of the worst talent in history and made them main-eventers, simply by association. He was the biggest draw in history. You can read for yourself in that quote how all the other wrestlers used to thank him for putting food on their table.

What more can you want from one man?



So not only are you arguing the wrong side, not only are you screwing your own argument, not only are you basically making my point...now you're lying as well.

No, just no.

Were there some fans who didn't accept him? Sure. But watch that Bash at the Beach video again. When WCW fans thought Hogan was coming to save the WCW guys against Hall and Nash, they were going nuts. So to make up lies and say people hated him is just stupid. Here, I'll even provide the video, for easy access.

[YOUTUBE]Zwr1dTrLbY0[/YOUTUBE]

No doubt. And both of them drew enormously, which is only further proof of Hogan's greatness.



You consider Hulk Hogan at the age of 45 in his prime? Really? Hogan was roughly 45 years old in 1998. And you consider that his prime. Wow, you really DO go to great lengths to try and make a point. It's a shame you're so terrible at it.

I'm a fan of wrestling, which is why I say Hogan is the greatest. What the fuck are you talking about?

The fact is Hogan was the greatest of all-time, and anyone will tell you that. Austin had one hell of a three year run, but even at Austin's peak, you can't say he reached a higher level than Hogan. You could maybe say Hogan and Austin's peaks rivaled each other, but you can't say Austin was greater. But when you look at the fact Hogan did it two different times, as two different characters, as heel and face, in two different companies in two different parts of the country, and did it for nearly 20 years....it's obvious Hogan was just a greater champion than Austin.

just a few points of contradiction

firstly you are 26 so unless you have been watching wrestling as an infant even you havent caught hogan's first great babyface run between 1984-1990 live

secondly for a guy who is a mod how did austin not revolutionize the business by changing the heel/face dynamics.here's a question :how many babyfaces used abuse in their promos before austin?i can remember very few.one of them being when hbk said that he'd whip diesel's seven foot ass.yeah pretty weak by today's standards.so without austin you dont have guys like rock,rapper cena and the viper orton.three guys who can all be said to be among the greatest of all time.so he basically changed the way promos were cut,made flawed guys accepatble as heroes both of which are things that hadnt happened before and yet thats not revolutionizing the business??and all hogan does i turn heel and play the same heel character every tom dick and harry has played and revolutionizes the business for a second time??(not arguing about the first time though).i can say then that without nwo hogan's heel turn would not have meant anything???

and youre wrong about hogan making heels cool.wasnt shawn michaels a cool heel back in 1994.didnt flair sometimes get face pops back when he was a heel?arent cool heels the heels with some likable traits.so how is hogan responsible for starting it???

also austin was past his ringmaster days much before hogan even joined nwo.just putting some facts straight

and how did hogan elevate any guy man???what does lex luger mean to wrestling.how bout jacksquat.that match with piper was not even for the title.how many ppv's have matches which do not include the main championship????he refused to lose to hbk when hbk was a regular guy.same deal with orton.how's a part timer beating top superstars called elevating???

and youre right when you say that wcw got under because of some issues with the parent company.but you cant disagree that they were booking a shitty product which did involve keeping the title on hogan for a long time.try searching for fingerpoke of doom.

basically the point i want to make is this:both guys are the greatest babyfaces of their eras.hogan is only a great heel because of a great storyline:the nwo and not because of him playing an extarordinary heel.austin had three years on top as compared to hogan's 20 but the impact he had on the business is equal to that of hogan's.you might put it as a negative point but ill give austin credit because he accomplished as great a legacy as hogan's in a shorter time period.if it was only a case of quantity perhaps you would say that john cena has had more of an impact on the biz as the rock