The Friendzone And Nice Guy Syndrome: Who's the Douche?

[Con T.]

So, the lady friend and I were talking about a guy... friend of hers, shall we say, who's been pining over her, in spite of the fact that he knows she's in a committed relationship. So, as he recounts it now, he's in the friendzone, because he was too nice a guy.

Really short and sweet:

1. Can you be too "nice" when you're courting someone.

2. What are your thoughts on the "friendzone"?

 

[Барбоса]

I am going to get in here before this thread turns into a discussion about whether the "Friend Zone" actually exists except for in the mind of the "nice guy."

This guy does not sound like he is in the Friend Zone at all.

He sounds more like an ******** who your friend should be kept away from. Bitterness does not belong in the "nice guy" and the fact that she knows he is pining over her suggests that he is not a true "nice guy" because the "nice guys" keep it hidden so well that the girl does not know she is being sought after by someone she just considers a friend.

 

[Con T.]

But is that all men who claim to exist in the "friend zone"?

Because, to me, it shouldn't be seen as a punishment that you're friends with a person. Like the person is choosing to hurt you.

Bitch, please. Maybe she just wants to be friends.

Personally, I think if you're using the friend zone as an excuse, you probably have a hundred different problems you need to address, before being too "nice"

 

[Барбоса]

That is essentially what I was getting at.

The Friend Zone is a creation of those who do not get what - or should that be "whom" - they want. It is an inherently negative idea in that friendship is all you are going to get from this girl, despite you wanting more. For me, for it to fall into the Friend Zone idea, the girl also should not know about the interest for if she is conscious of your interest but chooses not to reciprocate, you are not being Friend Zoned - you are being rejected.

However, I do think you can be too "nice", as in you do not want to take the chance of ruining the friendship you have made with a girl by attempting to take it further. You'd rather continue being friends with the girl rather than take the chance of getting what you want. This is what I see as the Friend Zone/Nice Guy combo.

You could call it some form of cowardly too though.

 

[The Brain]

I don’t know if the friend zone is a real thing but I think being too nice can hurt when courting someone. If someone is too nice they can be perceived as trying too hard which can be perceived as desperation. Desperation is a turn off. Unfortunately for the nice guy sometimes his niceness is genuine but is mistaken for weakness. The key if to have confidence in yourself. A lot of nice guys don’t have confidence. If you have true confidence in yourself others can recognize that. A confident guy is not a desperate guy.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

There's no such thing as being too nice. If someone tells you they're in the friend zone for being too nice then what they really mean is that they're too much of a pussy to be direct and decisive with the person they're attracted to.

Before I got married, I was in the friend zone multiple times, but my stays were only brief. If a woman tells you that she only sees you as a friend/will never feel the way that you feel about her, then you man the fuck up and tell her that you aren't going to settle for just being friends. One of two things will happen: A) she'll love the fact that you know what you want and she'll see the prospect of losing you as a friend as worse than the prospect of fucking you (AKA you're in, don't fuck it up) or B) her feelings won't change and you'll no longer have her in your life (which, let's face it, is better than pining over her while she fucks other people).

As for your girlfriend, I'd level with her on this one since it sounds like a classic case of the back pocket boyfriend (i.e. a guy she's keeping around just in case things go south with you and her).

 

[HBsam31]

My wife and I have been on again off again pretty much our whole lives. We have gone separate ways and seen other people, but we always seemed to come back to each other until we ended up getting married. Now we were friends in the beginning, but there was always an attraction. I think it all boils down to that. Attraction. I think the opposite of what others have stated here. I think the "friendzone" was created by the girl who is not attracted to the guy. It is an easy way for them to tell the guy that they are not attracted to them but can still benefit from the guys niceness. Now if you are that guy then it is time to get the hell away from that girl. There can't be a worse feeling than to be catering to a girl who is constantly sleeping with someone else. There is nothing wrong with being nice, but I think the niceness should end when you are doing doing doing doing for the girl and every night she spends with another guy. I think that is where the guy becomes the douche. Like I said though if there is no attraction then it doesn't matter what the nice guys does. It will never work out.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

The Friend Zone can be very fickle. It can also be easily avoided. The first thing that needs to happen is an open and honest relationship. A woman knows within a few seconds whether or not she's attracted to someone - male or female - and there's very little a guy can do to sway her attraction other than being attractive to that woman right away. Women rarely 'come around' and realize they've made a mistake. They'd rather stay with a jerk and get beaten for looking cross-eyed than to admit they made a mistake and should have gave you a chance. That's how stupid most women are.

If a woman says she only wants to be friends and she doesn't 'feel the same way that you do', then you have to be totally up front with her about how you feel and whether it's a deal breaker in the friendship. Don't pussy-foot around and act like it's no big deal. Let her know how the feelings are. If it's purely sexual feelings, let her know you think she's hot and you want to escalate the relationship. Either way, be honest. Don't think she'll come around. She will not.

To be honest, I've been in the friend zone a few times and it felt demeaning. I usually ended up lashing out at the woman because - in my mind - she's too stupid to know what she has with me. The thing is, the moment there's feelings that exceed friendship is the moment it needs brought up. Don't bring it up when a dude walks out of bedroom after satisfying her sexually. Bring it up before she has the chance to get in that spot. Let her know there's feelings involved and it's more than friendship. If she says she doesn't feel that way and never will, let her know that a friendship may not be possible and you want to see if something can go further. If she's a TRUE friend, she'll be open to a date.

The only thing is to be yourself. If you're trying to be what you THINK she wants, you end up looking foolish and hating yourself and possible hating her for making you do such a thing.

And there's a difference in 'nice guys' and 'good guys'. Sometimes, a good guy gets in fights or does something stupid. A 'nice guy' doesn't have the guts to do anything that may upset the balance in the relationship. A woman respects a guy who's independent, assertive, shows a tinge of jealousy, and can physically protect them. Even short guys can do this. Just don't try to hide who you are. If you do that, you'll be found out and she will hate you and if she has girlfriends, she'll tell them. And they'll tell their girlfriends. And so on and so on.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

1. Can you be too "nice" when you're courting someone.

Well, for some girls you can. Some girls see that "nice" as a sign that you have no spine at all. In other words, they would like you to be "The Man".

And from what I understanded in some of the talkings with the girls about that subject its not very hard to do it. You just have to show that you cant be stomped by everyone or in other words "not be a sissy". And lets face it, its not bad thing to look in a male because sheneeds a man who could stand for himself. From what I understand, thats all it takes...

Problem is, girl sometimes overact in that. So you get that extreme situation where she would rather date some jerk guy that decent nice guy. All because they think that being nice excludes you from being "The Man". And thats not true at all...

2. What are your thoughts on the "friendzone"?

Well it happens. But my thoughts are that usually its not being nice its the problem but the fact that you dont come clean about intentions in time. And by the time you come clean she sees you as friend. If you start as friends and develope that kind of relationship its not that simple to just like that be more then friends...

 

[LSN80]

So, the lady friend and I were talking about a guy... friend of hers, shall we say, who's been pining over her, in spite of the fact that he knows she's in a committed relationship. So, as he recounts it now, he's in the friendzone, because he was too nice a guy.

As he recounts it to you, or to her? Further, how nice of a guy could he be if he were pining for her and pursuing her actively, regardless of 'how nice' he was, if he was, if he knew she was in a committed relationship? That behavior, when interested in someone, is indicative to me of someone who's trying to steal said female away, showing how he's 'nicer and kinder and more supportive' then her current male companion.

1. Can you be too "nice" when you're courting someone?

Regarding be 'too nice', it's a tricky one. If a man is 'too nice' to a woman, he can come across as needy, clingy, or simply not be what a woman prefers1'm not even sure if the word I'm looking for is 'nice', per se, as most women, especially as you get older, like nice.

At the same time, some women do like men who have an edge to them. Depending on the age, that woman may want to show independence and not rely on the man in some ways. Most women, despite popular view, do want to be treated well, with kindness and respect. But yes, you can be too nice when courting someone, its an easy way to be strung along and take advantage of.

I was, and still am, extremely kind and respectful to my now wife of almost five years. But I also was on guard, and never let her take advantage of me.

So if someone is "too nice" in that they let the person they're pursuing, without reciprocation, take advantage of them, that person may lose respect for them and take advantage. The 'good person' would either let them go early if not interested, or tell them to freaking relax around them, be themselves, and let things progress.

As for the friend zone, it's hard to stay there long. I can understand, in a way, I suppose, men who have genuine interest in a "taken" woman. It's forbidden, which often, makes the woman either more desirable . In the end, something has to change, however. Someone is going to be unhappy with current circumstances, be it the person 'pining' for the other, or the person being pined for, and it never ends well.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

1. Can you be too "nice" when you're courting someone.

That would depend on if you're being yourself. I admit to suffering from being a nice guy but I'm that guy 24/7 not just when I'm trying to get into some girl's smalls. As a result of this I have found myself in the 'friendzone' with some girls, I've also found me having girls who I'm not interested in in my 'friendzone' and I've had relationships out of it too.

I'm me, if that means a girl finds me too 'nice'; hey, that's her problem - I ain't changing.

2. What are your thoughts on the "friendzone"?

I've no problem with the 'friendzone', if I like you as a friend - why the hell do I need to take my ball and go home just because you're not interested in me that way? In the same way as I have girls who'd have liked to have had more than a friendship with me that are still friends.

The 'friendzone' should just be 'friendship', if it is more than that... maybe you shouldn't be friends.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

The "friendzone" is a nice way of saying rejected. That's about it. If someone "just wants to be friends," what they're really saying is there's no attraction from their side of things. Rare is the occasion that someone, generally a woman, legitimately wants to stay just friends in fear of ruining what they already have.

This does bring up a better, more intriguing quesiton though. Can men and women really be friends? Now that's a thread someone who's much more articulate than I should address.

 

[WWEvsJosh]

This does bring up a better, more intriguing quesiton though. Can men and women really be friends? Now that's a thread someone who's much more articulate than I should address.

The answer to that question is no. Anytime guys are hanging out with a girl most of the time they have some sort of attraction to the girl. It could be the way she looks, acts, believes but he is not hanging out with her because he just want to be cool with her. He wants more

 

[Con T.]

The answer to that question is no. Anytime guys are hanging out with a girl most of the time they have some sort of attraction to the girl. It could be the way she looks, acts, believes but he is not hanging out with her because he just want to be cool with her. He wants more

Why?

Why can't that be the case? I've had plenty of platonic friends who are women, so have many friends.

What, exactly, do you have to back up this opinion?

 

[Thriller Ant]

Why?

Why can't that be the case? I've had plenty of platonic friends who are women, so have many friends.

What, exactly, do you have to back up this opinion?

My best friend is a girl. I can't speak for her, but I look at her as almost more like a sister than anything else. Just the thought of dating her is incredibly weird and almost uncomfortable.

 

[hatehabsforever]

The "friend zone " is unquestionably a real phenomenon, but that's not to say it necessarily has to be a bad thing, although it can be. However, if you do want to spin it from a negative perspective, the simple truth of the matter is, guys who are there are there for a reason and frankly deserve to be there. It's got nothing to do with being "too nice", that's a bullshit copout. However, it has everything to do with lacking the self confidence, the self esteem, the "balls" to attempt to move things along to the next level if in fact that's what the dude is interested in doing. I don't believe that guys end up in the friend zone because they are too nice and the object of their affection doesn't realize it. I believe the girl moves on to the next guy because the guy in the friendzone often doesn't act upon things in a timely fashion and opportunity passes him by.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

1. Can you be too "nice" when you're courting someone.

Well, it depends on the person but, in short, I think the answer is yes. There is such a thing as being too "nice" in the eyes of a lot of people when it comes to wooing a girl. How do I know? I've been in the situation before and it's not fun. We're taught to respect women, treat them nicely, behave properly and all this & that; but you can take it too far. The only problem is that, most of the time, you have no idea you're going too far until it's far too late.

In my eyes, the whole thing falls under the umbrella of "what do women want" in which it's one of these situations that can drive you nuts and even make you start to question yourself. For instance, how often have you heard a gal bitch & moan about guys who treat them like shit, cheat on them, blow them off to always do something with their friends and how much they generally dislike guys like that? Probably more than you can count. That's all well and good until you see those same gals choosing to go out with exactly those same kinds of men that they were complaining about. While I don't believe that "every" girl likes a "bad boy", I do believe that most of those who do have this fantasy about being the one who can "change" him into a good boy. When it doesn't happen, they'll go on a tirade about how they're done with "those" kinds of guys before the whole process starts all over again.

2. What are your thoughts on the "friendzone"?

If you're someone who has genuine feelings for someone, and when I say feelings I do mean emotionally deep and something beyond carnal lust, then it can be EXTREMELY difficult to be friends. What makes it even more difficult is if you tell this person how you feel and they simply don't feel the same way about you. Aside from the general awkwardness it can cause, especially in the initial stages of revealing your feelings, you have to deal with seeing the person you want to be with go out with other people. It's completely natural to feel hurt by the rejection and your mind can even start to play tricks on you. For instance, the person could be having a grand old time while they're out dating someone else and it can be easy to convince yourself that they're actually kind of throwing it in your face. It's only made worse when you compare yourself to who they do go out with. Jealousy can cloud your vision of these people but sometimes, you honestly can't see why they'd want to be with someone that genuinely might not be as "good" for them as you would be.

At the same time, though, at least you'll have said your peace but dwelling on the fact that you still want to be with this person when they're not interested in you is only going to make you feel worse. Anyone ever gotten the "I think of you like a brother" remark? Your heart sink into the hollow pit where your stomach used to be and your guts are churning like a broken down Maytag on the rinse cycle. If a gal says that, then it's most definitely time to work on getting over her and moving onto greener pastures.

For me personally, it was too hard to stay friends with a gal I had romantic feelings for. I know she wasn't rubbing anything in my face or being callous towards my feelings, but she was simply doing her thing and it was just too painful to hang around and watch. I'm sure some people can get past it. Hell, some people can draw some sort of closure out of it and ultimately move on in search of someone who feels the same way for you. Usually though, you have to tough out those feelings of disappointment, rejection and just generally shattered confidence. It's easier for some to do than others, but pining for a gal that knows how you feel but simply isn't interested and still being in her life can be awfully damn masochistic sometimes.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Of course a person can be too nice when courting a person. Nothing wrong with being nice but if you are overly nice it can come off as trying too hard. Often when a person tries too hard it makes others weary of that person because you don't really know what that person is like. If a person is naturally too nice it can come off as them not having much of a spine therefore you don't respect the person and I don't believe a relationship can really work if there is no mutual respect between the 2 people.

The reason guys acting like assholes to girls often work is because it shows they have a spine, in essence they come off as a man instead of a boy, most girls want to be with men. For example there was a girl in my teens that would bend backwards for me, not to the point of being nice but to the point of being a doormat. Although I appreciated all she did for me (and she did a lot) I couldn't date her because of it, the fact that she was such a doormat was a complete turn off for me. I've also been the guy being too nice in order to get with a girl and it never worked for me, not once. When I said fuck it and started being myself was when it started working for me. I'm usually a nice person but I definitely have an arrogant, douchebag side to me as well that will rear its ugly head when I get mad. People often don't like this side of anyone but at the end of the day you at least respect the person for standing up for what they believe in(as long as they don't go too overboard) and ultimately people can usually put that douchbaginess behind them if they like that person. If anything I think it helps in the long run.

Sometimes being in the Friendzone can be a bad thing but sometimes it can be a good thing. It all depends on the situation. If you are emotionally deep in with the person its not a good thing because it will drive you insane every time the girl that you are friends with dates or hooks up with another guy, you take it more personally than you should and ultimately it can turn to a point where you hate that person, or at least can't be around that person.

On the flip side it can be awesome, as a matter of fact one of my best friends started from being in the Friendzone. I was interested in her, wasn't a doormat but was nice and mostly natural. We got along tremendously and her attraction grew over time until one night we got physical. For whatever reason we didn't click in that way but we still got along great. After that I stopped being in the Friendzone and we just became friends, to this day she's one of my best friends. I found a girlfriend I love and have a kid, she found a guy and is getting married this year, we're both friends, we're both happy in our own lives but it all started with me in the Friendzone.

 

[Tastycles]

The girl I sleep with most frequently is a friend, we should probably be a couple, and everyone that knows us says it too me all the time. The problem is that she is a serial monogamist and always has a boyfriend, which, barring about three days when we were 17, is never me. I think the problem as she sees it is that she never really believed that I wanted her, and I'm just settling, so as a result she'd never take the plunge, and here I am, 'in the zone'.

However, I don't really think it's something to whinge about because I have her in my life, and if things are meant to happen then they will do. The more I think about it, the more I think there's probably two ways you end up in the friend zone, for want of a better term, and it's all about feelings. The first, is like Mrs. J. O. Material's friend here (obviously what follows is a series of unsubstantiated speculation, but it's probably correct) - he's ended up there, because she is too polite to say 'I'm not interested in you and never will be, but I enjoy you're company.' He stays there because he thinks he'll change her mind. Plausible, but seldomly happens.

The second is my situation, where she's doing it to protect herself. She thinks that my feelings for her changed when I had no other cards on the table. This isn't true, I've always had a thing for her, but I can tell that she doesn't really believe it. Here, again I'm happy to be here, because I started here, and I know we'll probably end up back to square one again in due course. Whatever happens, we have a close relationship, and I am genuinely content with that.

There's no such thing as being too nice, there's just a variety of things that different people find nice. Nice doesn't mean calling someone every five seconds, nice means being the person that makes the other happy, this can include giving space.

 

[H33LTurn]

Ok, I just spent a couple of days (yes, DAYS) reading up on the subject because although I do get "friendzoned" a couple of times it doesnt affect me emotionally nearly as much as it does my buddies. Heres what I gathered and I suggest you read the articles on Jezebel.com to fully grasp the idea because it never sounds as good coming from a man's mouth (keyboard...yeah, whatever) than it does from a woman's:

Being nice doesnt automatically grant you access to a woman's heart or genitals. Women expect kindness from all living creatures and your reward for being a decent human being and not hurting the object of your affection isn't sexy time, its friendship and staying out of jail. Women are biologically attracted to confidence, which so called bad guys seem to ooze from their pores because they're arrogant and have no shame which can often be confused with confidence. Real nice guys have low confidence because they're humble and they know their shit, in fact, does stink, sometimes horribly.

However, kindness is its own reward. Women, believe it or not, are humans, and just like when you're nice and considerate to someone of the same sex you're rewarded with friendship, women reward friendship with, you guessed it, friendship. These romantic comedies where the shy and clingy looser gets the hot chick into a pity relationship are lying to you son. Also, friendship with a woman isnt a death sentence. Its friendship. If she genuinely values your friendship, it might become stronger now that you've become used to opening up to her. This chick I liked rejected me and well, she's become my closest female friend (besides MOMMY *creepy smile*). If you're interested in a woman make it know from the beginning. Treat her like one of the guys, meaning recognize she has bad attributes so you dont put her on a pedestal. And never, ever, think that being a nice human being to someone, gives you access to their body, it doesnt.

 

[wrestlingfan]

The Friend Zone can be very fickle. It can also be easily avoided. The first thing that needs to happen is an open and honest relationship. A woman knows within a few seconds whether or not she's attracted to someone - male or female - and there's very little a guy can do to sway her attraction other than being attractive to that woman right away. Women rarely 'come around' and realize they've made a mistake. They'd rather stay with a jerk and get beaten for looking cross-eyed than to admit they made a mistake and should have gave you a chance. That's how stupid most women are.

If a woman says she only wants to be friends and she doesn't 'feel the same way that you do', then you have to be totally up front with her about how you feel and whether it's a deal breaker in the friendship. Don't pussy-foot around and act like it's no big deal. Let her know how the feelings are. If it's purely sexual feelings, let her know you think she's hot and you want to escalate the relationship. Either way, be honest. Don't think she'll come around. She will not.

To be honest, I've been in the friend zone a few times and it felt demeaning. I usually ended up lashing out at the woman because - in my mind - she's too stupid to know what she has with me. The thing is, the moment there's feelings that exceed friendship is the moment it needs brought up. Don't bring it up when a dude walks out of bedroom after satisfying her sexually. Bring it up before she has the chance to get in that spot. Let her know there's feelings involved and it's more than friendship. If she says she doesn't feel that way and never will, let her know that a friendship may not be possible and you want to see if something can go further. If she's a TRUE friend, she'll be open to a date.

The only thing is to be yourself. If you're trying to be what you THINK she wants, you end up looking foolish and hating yourself and possible hating her for making you do such a thing.

And there's a difference in 'nice guys' and 'good guys'. Sometimes, a good guy gets in fights or does something stupid. A 'nice guy' doesn't have the guts to do anything that may upset the balance in the relationship. A woman respects a guy who's independent, assertive, shows a tinge of jealousy, and can physically protect them. Even short guys can do this. Just don't try to hide who you are. If you do that, you'll be found out and she will hate you and if she has girlfriends, she'll tell them. And they'll tell their girlfriends. And so on and so on.

Good post but generalizing.

My opinion:

If you have to call it the friendzone, than it's not a friendzone, It's what teens use to try to get a girl. This version of the friend zone usually leads to the healthiest relationships.

 

[jacdnwarrior]

I don't have any real idea what 'too nice' means. I hear some women say they like bad boys and need men with a little bit of thug in them. I mean if you have manners and act like a gentleman, some women are too damn childish to appreciate the value of that and say he's a nerd, too nice, blah, blah, blah.

Too nice to me, might mean something different to some one else. To me it means being too eager to help whenever a woman calls in the hope to win her over or get with her. I'm man enough (and ashamed to admit), I've done that. And it's a disaster if you go too far to gain her approval and can be painful if you never get it and you know she's with other guys. A guy is wrong to not be upfront about how he feels and tries to be nice to be with some one. Many girls use guys (who like them), which is also wrong.

The Friend zone is real and should be avoided if you want more from that person than friendship.