The Fall of X-Pac in the AE

[Emmet]

So I'm watching PPVs from the year 2000 and currently heading towards the end of the year. One thing I have noticed is the considerable drop in X Pac's status as the year has wore on. In 1999 he was a pretty big part of the company's story lines, especially in the summer of 1999, feuding with Taker, Big Show and so on.

Fast forward a year later and he's sliding down the card and by the end of 2000 he would be effectively done, save for forming the instantly forgettable X factor stable with Justin Credible and someone else (can't remember who it was?).

So what happened to him? in 2000 he was only 28 and seemingly had years of quality matches in him, how had he declined so much to the point of 'X-pac heat' being a negative thing? He could still put on very good matches in that time period, was it that he didn't change his look/style? He seemed to be the same old X-pac to me from when he returned in 1998 until when he left.

Part of me thinks it was the incoming nucleus of talent such as Jericho, Angle and the Radicalz that marked the end of him, they simply outworked him and produced stellar matches in a time when he no longer was.

What are peoples' opinions on Waltman's decline in 2000?

 

[SSJPhenom]

Well it was a combination of things. Waltman himself, if you watch any of his interviews on YouTube, will say that it was mostly drugs. I attribute it to more than just drugs though.

The further everybody, except for Triple H, who was in DX got away from DX, the worse off they became. Waltman, IMO, was never very good on the mic when he didn't have his buddies around to feed off of. Add that to, as was said, he never really changed. Then add that to drugs and his position in the middle of the Trips, Steph, and Chyna thing and you have a pretty volatile mix that would probably derail most people.

That's one scenario and I think it's apart of what happened, but I also think that Waltman was never ever good on his own as a wrestler. He didn't start gaining traction as a singles competitor in his first WWE run until his friend and fellow KLIQ member Hall gave him a rub. That was short lived. Then, in WCW, he was always with the nWo as Syxx. He had that one interesting feud with Flair that started because Flair said something about not being able to take Hall or Nash but he could take Syxx anytime. That was short lived. Then he comes back to the WWE and once again, he's with his buddies and getting shine from them. Then when DX breaks up, Trips is trying to compete with the Rock and Austin and the Outlaws are, I can't really remember but they were somewhere. Point is, Pac no longer had anyone to ride with and shine off of and he was never good enough to make it on his own steam. Add to that, like has been said, Jericho, Angle, Benoit, Guerrero, and others were tearing up the mid card to main event spots and honestly Pac just got left behind.

He was always entertaining in an ensemble, but not by himself. Those are my opinions anyway.

 

[Aquaman6686]

X-Pac was just terrible. Absolutely terrible. He couldn't work a good match, he couldn't talk, and he had the charisma of roadkill. Hell, he's where the term "X-Pac Heat" comes from. Fans started to despise him because X-Pac was CONSTANTLY shoved down our throats at every level, in every conceivable way, and flip-flopped between face and heel so rapidly that it would make Big Show barf. X-Pac was just the drizzling shits.

 

[John Cena's Sweatbands]

I think it was definitely both the influx of new talent (Jericho, Radicalz etc) that you mentioned, and the fact that his gimmick hardly changing since 1997.

Before their match in 2000, Chris Jericho said X-Pac's stuff was outdated, referring to his crotch chop. He was still coming out to his X-Pac DX theme song until 2001, when DX had long since been disbanded.

When he eventually founded X-Factor, everyone had basically forgotten about him. More midcard WCW and ECW guys had been brought in and he got lost in the shuffle.

 

[Makaveli31]

It was same combination of things that sidelined him in his first WWF run as the Kid and what ultimately led to the end of his run in WCW. Drugs and injuries. He had a neck injury that caused him to miss several months in 2000. When he came back obviously the painkiller addiction did him in again as he attempted to wrestle on an injured neck. He could never gain any momentum because he was always in and out. Add that to the fact that he was mid-card. He was an interchangeable player. Meaning they could turn him face or heel on a whim whenever they chose which added to the confusion and further dropped him lower on the totem pole.

I don't think he was a terrible worker or even terrible on the mic. When given a topic when as articulate and intense as anyone else. I loved his promos in WCW on Flair and Piper. Those were some of the best worked-shoot promos ever and his emotion played well on TV. But was featured more in WCW. He was given a mic. Yes, that was due to being in the Wolfpac with Hall and Nash but Waltman stepped up to the plate and became one of the more popular members.

In DX, HHH overshadowed the entire group. NAO were featured on their own but they also played well off each other. You take Road Dogg away from Billy Gunn or voce versa and it dosn't work as well. HHH didn't play well with X-Pac the way Hall and Nash did. Hall and Nash featured Waltman as an equal. They gave the impression he was just as important to the Wolfpac they were. HHH in DX not so much.

X-Pac wasn't a terrible worker. He wasn't great but good. He was great matches with Bret and HBK in his first run and he worked well with the cruiser weights in WCW. He had solid matched with Jeff Jarrett, D-Lo Brown, and even brought out the best in Shane McMahon. But then they paired him with Kane which I didn't get. Kane was just so much bigger than X-Pac and it didn't look right on TV. I think that led his demise as much as anything. I think he would fare well in today's WWE where the emphasis on Size isn't there,

 

[S.J. Maximus]

I'm probably one of the few fans of Sean Waltman that are commenting on this thread (I'm sensing most of the replies to OP will be people bashing him relentlessly) and you know sometimes I wonder this very question to myself. He is the sole member of the Kliq who doesn't appear to be a 1st ballot HOF'er (or even a HOF'er at all), and the sole member who really can't stake a claim to being one of the most influential talents of 90's wrestling.

I think his wrestling talent is inarguable, he was very gifted wrestler technically while also combining pure striking with an above average aerial arsenal to boot. While he's not Ric Flair on the mic, I think he gets too much heat for his mic work. He was average, he could absolutely hold his own but I will admit he has only cut one memorable promo in his career (put that in your pipe and smoke it).

As for his decline in 2000, I think all of you hit the nails on their heads. It definitely wasn't one issue but the sum of several factors that lead to his decline and his eventual dismissal in 2002.

1. Lack of creative direction post DX - I think this is the biggest thing, and literally every DX member except Chyna (and obviously HHH) suffered from this issue in the immediate aftermath of DX. For anyone who wants to argue Billy Gunn, he would remain irrelevant for a good two years before getting a solid role as Chuck's gay partner and eventual tag team champion. Road Dogg and X-Pac saw both of their careers and gimmicks become severely outdated until becoming addicted to drugs behind the scenes and losing control. Road Dogg's entrance doesn't make sense if Degeneration X isn't proudly bringing it's tag team champions of the world, and K-Kwik was stupid as hell. X-Pac IMO was kinda the heart and soul of DX, he was actually the guy who used the now-signature DX ring pyro during every entrance and fought for his stable's honor against the Corporation or whatever foes they had at the time. Without that, what was he fighting for? Why was he still wearing the exact same tights? Why was he still using the same DX-related theme song?

2. Drug use - This is Sean's own reasoning for his decline so I hold it in high regard. Obviously becoming a meth head isn't going to help your career regardless what it is, and Sean's heavy usage definitely deteriorated his ability to perform in every facet of the wrestling business and be a good employee. Every Kliq member had quite the ego, that obviously rubbed off on Waltman and I imagine a drugged up Waltman was not the easiest person to deal with both behind and in front of the camera. Chyna saw her career slip in 2001 for the same reason (obviously Steph would be the #1 reason on her list but I'd attribute #2 for drug use).

3. Y2J, The Radicals, Kurt Angle, and the influx of future WWE HOF'ers - I honestly never even thought of this viewpoint until reading the OP's post, but boy does it make damn good sense. How the hell was he supposed to climb the ladder when that ladder was being climbed by the hungry HOF talents of Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, and Kurt Angle!? Maybe that was WWE's excuse for keeping his gimmick the same, they could only develop so many talents at a time. Regardless, it is clear that those guys had both better looks and complete packages compared to X-Pac. When they temporarily brought DX back in 2000 he actually got to face every single one of these guys on RAW, but I'm pretty sure he won a total of 0 matches against those guys. Hard to maintain relevance when you're the guy who has to put over all the new guys.

I think a major criticism against him that I completely disagree with is that he was only good when paired onscreen with the Kliq. I will admit every time he was massively over with the fans was when he was involved in a Kliq-related storyline but that simply happened to be for the entirety of 1995-1999. Regardless of who he'd been paired with, as long as they would continue to develop his character (which happened successfully during those years) he'd be over with the fans. Maybe you can argue the Kliq took care of him backstage, and when there was no one else helping him fight his battles in 2000 he slipped down the card. For the record, while I'm not arguing that X-factor was memorable at all, it speaks volumes that they would give him his own faction to lead and he actually spent the majority of that time as a champion, being the man who unified the WWE Light Heavyweight and WCW Cruiserweight Championships. In 2002, the Kliq was clearly helping him fight some battles again as he returned to NWO but as soon as Nash went down and they abandoned that storyline it seemed as if WWE was unwilling to find a storyline for him. So all in all, I would blame this on those 3 reasons above. He was a great talent and talented worker that WWE Creative simply abandoned, drugs had destroyed, and the influx of talent overcame to leave him a broken future endeavor in 2002.

 

[WorstWrestlingExcrement]

wwe mistreated X pac when he returned from WCW I guess it was a punishment why he deflected there to WCW . As 1-2-3 kid his matches were not bad against Ramon, Bret Hart , Doink & Jeff Jarrett. As part of the nWo he rose and got attention immediately Hall and Nash gave treated as an equal opportunity unlike HHH who overshadowed and gain spotlight for himself and Shawn Michaels . His matches were great in WCW against the cruiserweights and Flair. His mic skills were great and improved from there as they gave him the ball to to run with it . During 2000 when he returned to wwe the downslide started kicked in with depression he threw it on drugs did porn with Chyna that is where he was obsolete. Being a druggie and not cleaning up at least Jeff Hardy did & went to rehab when Xpac returned to TNA again with Hall and Nash he started again on the drugs

 

[Azane]

X-pac always rode with friends, he literally never did anything of import a lone.

When he was 1-2-3 Kid, he was a whatever mid card dude, but then when he became Syxx, he just rode with early NWO coat-tails, and the only reason he was relevant was because of them.

Cue joining DX, woohoo, yay year and a half of getting free reaction, dude literally went from the hottest stable in wrestling to, a close 2nd. Then he just kind of existed, did some stuff with Kane, they made fun of the whole voicebox gimmick and milked it til nobody cared.

DX dies, and he still is riding it, all the way until he had to be put into an X-factor stable , because Solo X-pac can't do anything or draw a dime. he keeps doing his drugs and getting Hep C from ring rats, then shows up to join the TOTALLY NOT NWO in TNA. And then that whole TOTALLY NOT NWO gimmick dies when his Hep C prevents him from wrestling anymore.

 

[Charismatic Enigma]

I think another contributing factor was that he was booked with talent whom he didn't mesh well. For the era he came in (1993) he was very fast paced and high-flying, now obviously with guys like Essa Rios and the Hardys, he moveset didn't seem so impressive anymore only 6 years later, however booking him against someone like Kane for example was not the right spot for him. I do think all the other things people listed are contributors, but I also think with someone like Paul Heyman booking, he would've known how to put him in angles that would've accentuated his strengths.

 

[Darkshadow1234]

I never liked xpac
To me xpac was never a good wrestler at all. He was mediocre at best in the ring and on the mic.
He had no charisma. No qualities that separated him from other wrestlers.
The only reason he was relevant was bc he rode the coattails of his friends in DX and NWO.

His feuds were trash.The feud with kane was trash. Xpac basically dominated the feud. He should of never went over kane in the first place. Kane only won one match against him. That was at Armageddon 1999.
It destroyed kanes character.

Another thing I hated about xpac was that he barely lost clean in single matches. Which was BS.
xpac is not that good of a wrestler. He is a mediorce wrestler who only got where he is bc of who he knew.

What killed his character was drugs.
Refusing the evolve his character. Watch edge 2001 promo about xpac (it speaks the truth)
Boring matches.
No charisma.
Xpac heat.
All of those killed his character

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

wwe mistreated X pac when he returned from WCW I guess it was a punishment why he deflected there to WCW .

Sean Waltman had his hottest run in 1998 to early 2000 i the hottest stable at the time so I am not sure what you came up with that conclusion.

As for X-Pac, I think ultimately its because his character ran its course by the year 2000 rolled around. Also remember back in 1998 and 1999 the roster didn't really have a lot of depth and by early 2000 WWE was able to bring Jericho, Angle, Benoit, and Guerrero in the roster as well as The Hardyz, Edge and Christian, and The Dudleyz causing guys like Road Dogg, Billy Gunn, Val Venis, The Godfather, and X-Pac to be pushed aside.

 

[nwocongo]

X-Pac was just terrible. Absolutely terrible. He couldn't work a good match, he couldn't talk, and he had the charisma of roadkill. Hell, he's where the term "X-Pac Heat" comes from. Fans started to despise him because X-Pac was CONSTANTLY shoved down our throats at every level, in every conceivable way, and flip-flopped between face and heel so rapidly that it would make Big Show barf. X-Pac was just the drizzling shits.

Yes and Miz is a fantastic wrestler? You're too much. At least X Pac had to learn how to wrestle and pay his dues to get into the business he wasn't a reality tv ****e who kissed all the right asses. I'll give you the limited mic skills, but to say he couldn't work a match is flat out ignorant (look who I'm trying to debate, maybe I'm the ignorant one). Fans didn't despise him for constantly being pushed as you incorrectly (again) state, they were irritated by his constant heel/face turns and the fact he never evolved from his Dx character. It is well documented (by people who have actually wrestled before) that Waltman was a fantastic in ring worker and could make anyone look good, the only people who have this idea that he can't work are the marks who don't know shit.

 

[LegendKiller97]

I would say the combination of Jericho, Benoit, and Angle had a lot to do with his decline.

 

[Wrestlingaholic]

History remembers Sean Waltman in not the kindest of fashions, but actually he was a solid 6/10 wrestler in my eyes - which isn't a bad thing. Not everyone can put on the match of the night, every night.

Waltman can't wrestle/ Check back at early Monday Night Raw episodes on the WWE Network. He popularised a number of moves in WWE, moves we take for granted today, such as the top rope moonsault - he wasn't the first to use it in WWE but he was the first to use the move regularly on WWE national tv; ok he had possibly the worst name in wrestling history (123 Kid, WTF?) but he certainly had watchable matches.

I didn't start watching WCW Nitro until late 1997, and Syxx was at the time one of about 20 nWo members, so I don't recall seeing too much of him until his return to WWE the night after Wrestlemania 14 (could it be argued that the annual tradition of returns and debuts the night after WM started in '98 with Waltman?) but DX fast became the hottest faces on tv not named Stone Cold Steve Austin, and Waltman was a big part of that, including his Mizark Henry skit when DX 'did' the Nation, and a very good hair vs hair match at Summerslam 1998 againt Jeff Jarrett; That WWE included him in their World Title tournament at Survivor Series shows they were quite serious on him (albeit a first -round draw with William Regal saw them both eliminated at the first hurdle) and I believe he was the Rock's first ppv Championship opponent after the Survivor Series.

X-Pac was kept relevant throughout 1999 during the short-lived DX break up, with his tag team with Kane, whereas Road Dogg somewhat floundered as a singles star; then in 2000 when DX re-united, he faced and defeated Dean Malenko in Malenko's first match, in one of my favourite episodes of Smackdown ever.

It was only after DX split up that X-Pac began to sink without a trace. A brief tag team with Justin Credible and Albert didn't do much and, despite a strong outing against Billy Kidman at Invasion, he wasn't used in the Cruiserweight divison much.

Ultimately, if the man himself largely blames drugs, then we should go with that, but to say he was always irrelevant or not a good wrestler is plainly not correct. Never one of the greatest, but certainly a solid, reliable mid-carder throughout his career

 

[boozinjedi]

I rack his downfall up to drugs and lifestyle choices
He was great in ring early on,Heck his match with Bret Hart in 94 or 95?? Stills ranks up there as one of the best scientific/move for move matches I have ever seen!
Those "Nights in Chyna" videos didn't help his career any!!

 

[nwocongo]

I rack his downfall up to drugs and lifestyle choices
He was great in ring early on,Heck his match with Bret Hart in 94 or 95?? Stills ranks up there as one of the best scientific/move for move matches I have ever seen!
Those "Nights in Chyna" videos didn't help his career any!!

Very true, his early career was full of very technically sound matches, his stuff in WCW vs the other cruiserweights we're always good and he had quite a few good matches in his 2nd WWE run, he even made Shane look good in one of his first real matches. Even in his later days when his sobriety became an issue he still put on more than adequate displays. People can argue that he wasted his talent due to his questionable lifestyle or they can rip on his mic skills, but trying to deny that he was a very good worker is just stupid.

 

[jacdnwarrior]

The downfall of X pac or Sean Waltman ? If anything he overachieved.

Let's look at him honestly. He had speed and could work. He had no mike ability, and had no look. Better than Waltman worked in the WWE and never got anything close to what he got. Worked in main event matches, was a European champ, multiple time tag champion, part of one of the most popular stables in WWE's history. He had it pretty good. It's a shame that injuries and drug abuse took their toll but still, he had a nice run considering.

 

[deadman talking]

Sean was a really good hand, when he first started as 123 kid/lightning kid. He had some really good matches with Bret and Razor. He even had a good little run tagging with Razor. Eventually the hard drugs and his ego, got in the way. He changed drastically when going from the kid to xpac! Very sad, but he was absolutely gifted in the ring. Not good on the mike though.

 

[Lowdown]

Pac was never a guy that could stand out on his own. If you think about it, here's never done anything of value outside of DX. Granted, him being a part of the Kliq is what got him exposure in his early days as the 123 Kid, but he was still just a bit player in a stable. His biggest push, and correct me if I'm wrong, was his program with Kane and Tori. And in some ways it seemed to find a way to put more focus on Triple H and Stephanie as they were leading the stable. When 2000 was dragging along, you had bigger players like Angle, Jericho, and the Radicalz getting shine. Essentially once Trips lost the belt for good that year, the writing was on the wall for X Pac.

 

[LBGetBack]

wwe mistreated X pac when he returned from WCW I guess it was a punishment why he deflected there to WCW . As 1-2-3 kid his matches were not bad against Ramon, Bret Hart , Doink & Jeff Jarrett. As part of the nWo he rose and got attention immediately Hall and Nash gave treated as an equal opportunity unlike HHH who overshadowed and gain spotlight for himself and Shawn Michaels . His matches were great in WCW against the cruiserweights and Flair. His mic skills were great and improved from there as they gave him the ball to to run with it . During 2000 when he returned to wwe the downslide started kicked in with depression he threw it on drugs did porn with Chyna that is where he was obsolete. Being a druggie and not cleaning up at least Jeff Hardy did & went to rehab when Xpac returned to TNA again with Hall and Nash he started again on the drugs

Your timeline of events is not even close.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

Your timeline of events is not even close.

@LBGetBack And why is WorstWrestlingExcrement's timeline of events regarding X-Pac not even close? Care to explain where he got his muddled moments of Pac from.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

As part of a group, I think X-Pac, Syxx, Waltman, whatever you want to call him played a good sidekick role. I thought he did well whenever he was playing the "little buddy" to the likes of Hall, Nash, Triple H or even Kane but I was never all that impressed by him on his own.

Drugs played a factor, he's admitted that himself on numerous occasions. Another factor was that by 2000, while he was a young man, he was someone who'd still been around and been featured prominently for a long time and there were just simply guys coming along who many felt were simply just better pro wrestlers than he was. This was the time guys like Jericho, Benoit, Mysterio, Guerrero and Angle were on the scene just tearing things up. Generally speaking, when I look at Sean Waltman and compare him with Jericho or Angle as to who should be pushed, I just have to go with Jericho and Angle all day everyday and twice on Sunday.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The problem was there wasn't any substance to him other than those he was taking.

As the 1-2-3 Kid it worked as a bland literal vanilla midget... people bought into him as "The Great White Hope" and it helped that guys like Yoko had the belt... He had a couple of great matches in that era with Bret and Razor before settling into mediocrity as part of The Corporation. He was awful as a heel and arguably did the least "good work" as part of DiBiase's stable. Tatanka didn't work as well, but he at least was putting forth effort to improve as a heel, futile as it was. Backstage he was already getting into trouble and was part of the infamous Shawn/Davey/Marine encounter...

Then he got hurt and went to WCW... and things continued to suck... he was the worst member of the NWO by far, even Vincent had more going for him... he was clearly there for who his buddies were and in a place where cruisers like Rey, Jericho, Malenko and Eddie were tearing up the place, and with real lucha and japanese stars in the mix, he was quickly out of his depth. He medicated himself accordingly and got his shot to go back to WWE cos he got fired... not so he could go back, but cos he was so messed up, Bischoff could get away with firing him as a message and say "Hey, he's fcuked himself..."

There's a revisionist view that Waltman was over as part of DX... he really wasn't... Even his big return was overshadowed by the Outlaws joining the fold. JR's commentary when he walked out kind of summed up many fans opinion... he made "look whose back..." sound like he'd just found a Mark Henry floater in the can. He was part of DX thanks to Hunter, but the group would have been far more successful with someone else in that role... had someone like Jericho come over that bit sooner then he would have been great in DX instead of X-Pac.

As time went on he was more exposed as a busted flush... The Kane stuff worked better with RVD... X-Factor was embarrassingly bad and even now, Waltman appears like the little hanger on at the HOF rather than ever getting in there himself.

Once DX ended there was no more "wriggle room" to hide his deficiencies and his increasingly pallid appearance due to the drug use... you had a lot of hungry talents appearing like Angle and Jericho and by then a whole developmental class including Brock, Orton, Cena and the like... Waltman probably COULD have flown under the radar in a jobber/lower mid role for a couple more years if he wasn't so messed up all the time.

But this was a WWE where guys like Kendrick got booted cos Vince despised his smoking...and guys like Jannetty (whose problem was directly linked to them) was released as often as he was rehired... So Waltman can have no complaints, he got away with far more than many did.

Ultimately he always got away with more his whole WWF career, even as far back as 1993...