The extremely convoluted situation of Michael Elgin

[BaconBits]

You don't just "try out for MLB".

If he was serious about baseball, he wouldn't be wrestling, he'd be playing baseball and making far more money than he is working for RoH.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Courtesy of Dave Meltzer...

Michael Elgin was told on Monday that he'd be allowed back into the United States this week, which is why AAW out of Chicago reaffirmed fans on their Facebook page that the ROH star would be there as hes informed his usual independent bookers of the good news. I've not been told by anyone close to Elgin, but people close to ROH were in contact with the Canadian Embassy as they would be the ones dealing with Elgin's case. It may have even gone as far as Sinclair Broadcasting getting involved. It's unknown when Elgin will return to ROH. Whether he works or not he is still getting paid, although less then he should be as his recent contract extension said he gets a fraction of what he should get when he isn't featured on a show. ROH aren't a company who're interested in letting people sit on the sidelines and pick up money. It's possible Elgin appears at next weeks Champions vs All Stars show in Kalamazoo, Michigan on 11/10 where he was originally advertised as a champion.

 

[Slash-LN]

Mlb? Dont know too much about it but i dont see any short, overweight guys in baseball

Maybe not short because he's 5'11" but Prince Fielder is 275 lbs according to his bio.

Although I will concede that it's very rare to see a player that heavy in MLB.

 

[Nate DaMac]

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/516915-breaking-news-top-ring-of-honor-star-quits-company

 

[ABMorales787]

Work

 

[Papa Pillman]

If this current Elgin pissed off at ROH angle(assuming this is all a work) doesn't intersect with the current Ciampa pissed off at ROH angle to produce a pair of pissed off "Unbreakable Psychopaths" ROH is missing a big opportunity.

 

[.]

I wouldn't care if it weren't a work. Elgin is a shitty manlet.

Plus NJPW doesn't want him and that's just hilarious.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Meltzer:

ROH announced that Michael Elgin would be returning at this Saturday's Champions vs All Stars event in Kalamazoo, MI at the Wings Annex Stadium having been absent since All Star Extravaganza on 6/9. Elgin was stopped at the border and told he wouldn't be allowed back into the United States as his VISA had expired. Elgin knew this and had told ROH officials beforehand because in actuality when crossing the border from the US into Canada, border patrol told him he wouldn't be gaining access back into the States. ROH knew they couldn't be without their World Champion and so decided to put Jay Briscoe over Elgin and win the title. Elgin, who lives in St. Louis, Missouri with his wife professional wrestler MsChif was stranded in Canada for 27 days. He made it publicly known he didn't have much of anything with him and was staying with his grandparents until his VISA issues were fixed.

The estimated time for the renewal of his VISA was expected to be anywhere between 60 and 90 days. ROH knew that without their help Elgin would be stuck in Canada, away from his family and that despite the fact he wouldn't be appearing at shows they would still have to pay him as Elgin was one of a number of talents who signed new ROH contracts recently with a salary and other clauses. Elgin wouldn't get his whole earning for the Wheeling, WV TV taping but would have received a fraction, which would still have been about $400 - $600. ROH and Sinclair Broadcasting worked with the Canadian embassy to ensure Elgin got back into the US quicker than expected. Elgin is the contracted employee of an American company owned by a multimedia conglomerate. I was told last Thursday that Elgin had received the letter telling him he was allowed back into the US. In actuality ROH had just finished working with the Canadian embassy and so Elgin may not have even known he would be allowed back yet. He got the letter on Friday and over the weekend returned home to St. Louis.

Despite this, ROH are still upset with Elgin. The only reason they worked to get him back into the US is they'd prefer to pay him to do something rather than nothing. ROH is becoming more stricter on their contracted talents exploits outside the company. ROH isn't an independent promotion anymore and they like NJPW do with AJ Styles, want their talents protected wherever they wrestle. For example, Adam Cole wrestled for small independent promotion Empire State Wrestling in Niagra Falls, NY. He was promoted as ROH's Adam Cole and lost his match via DQ because ROH don't want their top stars losing clean on the indies anymore. When Elgin lost to Trevor Lee at PWG's BOLA, ROH were said to be furious. I know that Hunter Johnston (Delirious) has contacted Super Dragon and reiterated their deal. Any contracted ROH talent taking a loss on a PWG show must be cleared by ROH management. For example, ROH would have little issue with Elgin jobbing for Chuck Taylor, despite Taylor working for Gabe Sapolsky. Taylor's a well known, respected name on the indies who has built up a good reputation and who is recognizable to those who follow independent wrestling. Trevor Lee is enjoying his first exposure to any sort of attention through PWG and ROH don't view him as somebody who should be going over their contracted wrestlers, especially not their World Champion.

ROH is incredibly protective of their world title. It's the centerpiece to the entire promotion. They don't make quick decisions on who wins it. There have truly only been two undeserving ROH World title holders since its inception, Xavier and Jerry Lynn. Lynn got the title as a thank you for his contributions to wrestling and because ROH wanted more recognizable faces on their roster while they were on HD Net. Lynn was seen as a guy who would attract the old ECW audience, who would appreciate ROH because it carries a lot of the same ideologies ECW did. There have been some "bad" reigns such as Davey Richards in 2011 but that was more for the fact fans were so behind Kevin Steen, arguably at the height of his popularity that anyone holding the title that wasn't him was viewed as a placeholder. For what a modern day title is, the ROH World title is pretty prestiged and holding it is viewed as a big achievement. They can say that the guy holding it is in the same league as former champions such as Bryan, Punk, Joe, Aries, etc. They took the title from Elgin for his VISA problems and for not honoring the title well enough. Jay Briscoe who holds it now is ROH through-and-through. If The Briscoes don't get signed by WWE in the next two years they'll probably never leave ROH. From one point that could be viewed as a shame, because Jay and Mark are one of the best acts in wrestling, but between the cosmetically pleasing controversy and Jay's homophobic tweets last year, WWE would be hesitant to bring them in.

When ROH tweeted about Elgin's return he responded by saying, "news to me", later in the day he tweeted that he quit the company leaving many asking if it's a work. It's an angle but ROH will try to make it look as real as possible. One of the advantages ROH have is not many people follow how they operate. ROH just kind of do things that grasp peoples attention that the fan knows is coming but also doesn't, it's an odd but positive advantage they have. They did a great job in 2011 of making Kevin Steen's return look legit, except for the lawyer segment which Kevin himself has called terrible, but the promos outside arenas, the way he drove up to arenas, waited in line with fans and took front row seats, even bought merchandise (a Colt Cabana t-shirt just after ROH had fired him) was all well put together. Even their most recent disgruntled employee angle with Tommaso Ciampa has been well done. If it was WWE everybody would know everything about the angle before it happens, but with ROH they hold the cards. Nobody saw Jay Briscoe beating Elgin at All Star Extravaganza but when he did it they created a moment that for me is only beaten by Brock ending the streak at Wrestlemania.

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

Should have fixed your Visa issues earlier Elgin.

 

[BaconBits]

Saying Brisco going over Elgin is as impactful as Lesnar going over Taker is a little ridiculous.

 

[GeminiGarlord]

Saying Brisco going over Elgin is as impactful as Lesnar going over Taker is a little ridiculous.

He was talking personally first thing. And personally I have to agree too, even more If I have to be sincere. Lesnar v Undertaker was more of a mild "wtf" moment than anything else for me.

 

[BaconBits]

He was talking personally first thing. And personally I have to agree too, even more If I have to be sincere. Lesnar v Undertaker was more of a mild "wtf" moment than anything else for me.

That's absolutely fucking ridiculous, but ok.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Saying Brisco going over Elgin is as impactful as Lesnar going over Taker is a little ridiculous.

I think in-terms of shock for the people that watch both it was pretty shocking, not as shocking, I don't think anything has been as shocking as the streak ending, but if you watch ROH regularly and follow the angles, not one single person thought Jay Briscoe of all people was going to beat Michael Elgin two months into his reign, in his hometown, on iPPV when they were already planting the seeds for AJ Styles and after the long, drawn out push Elgin got to the title and the way they put it over at BITW and the way he kept talking about beating the title defense record.

 

[BaconBits]

I think in-terms of shock for the people that watch both it was pretty shocking, not as shocking, I don't think anything has been as shocking as the streak ending, but if you watch ROH regularly and follow the angles, not one single person thought Jay Briscoe of all people was going to beat Michael Elgin two months into his reign, in his hometown, on iPPV when they were already planting the seeds for AJ Styles and after the long, drawn out push Elgin got to the title and the way they put it over at BITW and the way he kept talking about beating the title defense record.

Fair enough.

But it didn't instantly feel to you that something was up behind the scenes neccesistating the change?

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Fair enough.

But it didn't instantly feel to you that something was up behind the scenes neccesistating the change?

Well isn't everything like that usually to do with something behind-the-scenes? My perspective of it is I watched it on a Sunday, so it was a replay, I stayed clear of spoilers because I hadn't been online at all over the weekend so when I saw it happen my jaw dropped. Judging from the reactions of others on Twitter and the fact ASE trended in America because of the title change I'd say most people found it surprising.

 

[BaconBits]

Well isn't everything like that usually to do with something behind-the-scenes? My perspective of it is I watched it on a Sunday, so it was a replay, I stayed clear of spoilers because I hadn't been online at all over the weekend so when I saw it happen my jaw dropped. Judging from the reactions of others on Twitter and the fact ASE trended in America because of the title change I'd say most people found it surprising.

Yeah, it's true that surprising/shocking title changes almost exclusively happen because of something behind the scenes (switching promotions/injuries/suspensions etc..). I guess anybody who was a wrasslin' fan long term would always be skeptical of such things.

I guess I'm just kinda jaded.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

As Meltzer said, one of ROH's big advantages and a big advantage as a fan of them is, not everyone looks very deep into why they're doing something or how they're doing it, whereas with WWE we know so much before going into just about everything. Delirious' trademark has been shocking or surprising title changes. E.g. Jay Lethal winning the TV title this year, the way Tommaso Ciampa won it at Final Battle, Forever Hooligans winning the tag titles last year, Jay Briscoe beating Kevin Steen last year - it adds genuine curiosity that maybe a title change could happen at anytime.

 

[BaconBits]

As Meltzer said, one of ROH's big advantages and a big advantage as a fan of them is, not everyone looks very deep into why they're doing something or how they're doing it, whereas with WWE we know so much before going into just about everything. Delirious' trademark has been shocking or surprising title changes. E.g. Jay Lethal winning the TV title this year, the way Tommaso Ciampa won it at Final Battle, Forever Hooligans winning the tag titles last year, Jay Briscoe beating Kevin Steen last year - it adds genuine curiosity that maybe a title change could happen at anytime.

Doesn't it run the risk of title changes for the sake of title changes though? Too much of that and it gets silly after a while.

 

[Papa Pillman]

Doesn't it run the risk of title changes for the sake of title changes though? Too much of that and it gets silly after a while.

If done wrong that could be the case, but Delirious has managed to book some surprise changes without hurting the titles.

The tag titles had a little hot potato played last summer(2013) when the Hooligans beat reDRagon and then dropped the belts a week later to the American Wolves who dropped them back to Kyle and Bobby two weeks later. Then reDRagon held the straps till this spring when they dropped them to The Bucks so that they could take the titles over to Japan to build interest for the crossover shows the companies held in May. The Bucks dropped the belts back to reDRagon at the second of those events and Kyle and Bobby have held them since. Meaning even with a surprise switch or two, reDRagon have held the belts for 16 of the last 19 months and counting- the second highest aggregate total in ROH history.

As for the TV title; Ciampa's surprise return and victory ended a nine-plus month reign by Taven who held it for four months before dropping it to Lethal four months later at Mania weekend, which was mainly shocking because it coincided with Lethal's heel turn, and that started a reign for Lethal that has stretched since. And each of the three men involved in these switches were part of a three-way feud that extended well beyond a calendar year.

As for the World title, Briscoe shockingly ended an eleven month reign by Steen before being forced to drop the title three months later due to injury. Cole won a tournament to hold the belt and then feuded with Elgin and a returning Briscoe, still claiming the rightful lineage of the belt. Elgin finally won the title at ROH's first live televised PPV in June who then surprisingly dropped it back to Briscoe about three months later due to the circumstances detailed in this thread. And Jay Briscoe amongst all of this stands as the World Champion who has still not been pinned in over two years.

So Delirious has been able to execute truly surprising championship switches without spamming the titles and damaging their prestige or credibility.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

What PP said.

The only time I've personally felt a title in ROH was hurt/being hurt was when they vacated the title in the summer of 2013, which sucked, but it wound up producing an awesome story and rivalry in Cole/Briscoe, and when they gave Matt Taven the TV title for what seemed like forever.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

This could be something Elgin seriously regrets.

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

What the hell is up with his lip? That shit is distracting.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

He chews tobacco. In his previous Highspot interview with Kevin Steen he spent the entire thing spitting into a bottle. As does Adam Cole and others.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Maybe not chew while you're fucking talking, douche nozzle. He sounds like he has a lisp.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Well if it's a work, it's a damn good work.