the ethics of crossing party lines to vote in a primary

Davi323

semi-retired from WZ
Today is the Republican primary elections in my state of Michigan. There are numerous groups of democrats in Michigan who are going to be voting in the GOP primary for Rick Santorum, in an effort to skew the results. IE, they are attempting to rig the election for a candidate that they know has no chance of beating Obama in November. Hell, even as a conservative, if Santorum wins the GOP nomination for President, I would have to think that Obama would win reelection. Rick Santorum is just not going to beat Obama. The Michigan democrats are obviously trying to ensure that Mitt Romney does not win, or if he does win, to make it as close as possible. In Michigan, the delegate votes are not winner take all, if Santorum and Romney finish close enough together, they would each take a share of the delegate votes into the GOP convention. Essentially, since Obama is running unopposed, they are just trying to cause mischief on the GOP side.

Now, I need to point something out. There is absolutely NOTHING illegal about this. The Michigan state democrats are not violating any voter laws whatsoever by doing this. Also, not every democrat who votes in the Michigan GOP primary is doing so to try to rig it. Some are going to be voting for the candidate who they think represents the best of the worst, that is, if for some reason Obama loses in November, which GOP candidate is the least disagreeable with them? Those aren't who I am talking about. I am only referring to Michigan democrats (and voters in other states where this type of situation might occur) who are voting specifically with the intent to mess things up and cause chaos, not those who are simply voting for who they think is the best alternative candidate.

However, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. So, this is my question:

Is it ethically acceptable to attempt to rig the primary election of the other party in hopes that you can get their weakest candidate elected? Or should your vote be limited by your conscience to a candidate that you genuinely see as the best/least worst choice?

Personally, I think it's disgusting. While it is not illegal (and I am in no way advocating that it be made illegal) it's dishonest. I see it as an abuse of the voting process to treat votes like pawns in some political chess game. And this goes for Republicans too...if the situations were reversed, and the GOP candidate was running unopposed and the Democrats had a fiercely contested primary, I would probably stay out of it entirely, thinking that it's their candidate, I won't be voting for their winner in the Presidential election anyway, so it's not really my concern.

However, I think there is something that has to be considered. While I think Santorum has no chance against Obama in November, many thought Obama stood no chance to beat Hillary Clinton in the democratic primaries either. Let's say that the Democratic plan to rig the election in Santorum's favor works.

So, Santorum wins Michigan from Romney. Other voters in other states see that victory, and decide they too want to vote for Santorum, and his momentum somehow carries over to the point where he actually wins the GOP nomination. At that point, seeing that Santorum received far more support than they anticipated, and that he is Obama's opponent, wouldn't you kind of be worried? What if, through some strange set of circumstances that you didn't anticipate, Santorum actually WINS? Are you still glad that you helped Santorum win Michigan instead of Romney, a candidate who would have been much more moderate and closer to your own political views than Santorum is? And you helped to defeat him, and get stuck with a far right wing Bible thumper as President? Even if it's incredibly unlikely, do you really want any part in potentially helping that happen? I guess what I am saying is that it could, under the right circumstances, end up being a case of being careful what you wish for...so it's probably better to just vote for the candidate you think would make the best alternative to your candidate, to minimize your potential losses if they actually win.
 
Sorry to see no one responded to this as I think you hit on a real hot topic there.

Is it ethically acceptable to attempt to rig the primary election of the other party in hopes that you can get their weakest candidate elected? Or should your vote be limited by your conscience to a candidate that you genuinely see as the best/least worst choice?

I think I am with you on this one. While it may not be illegal, there is still such a thing as ethical practices and I don't think this falls into that category of acceptable ethical practice. It really is tampering with the results in a rather conniving way. Honestly I don't see why the Dems are so concerned, I don't think either Romney or Santorum stand a chance of beating Obama. I think Gingrich was the only one with a real shot because I believe that he could have beat Obama in the debates which is really important for the Republican candidate to be able to do, but the other candidates have buried him so bad I don't think he'll be able to recover. Either way, I don't see any situation where it's at all rational to go and try to get who you perceive as being a weaker opponent for the person you support in the running to set up what you perceive as an easy win. It's really petty and really dishonest. If you are a registered democrat who is legitimately deciding to vote Republican this time around, okay sure, but otherwise I agree that it's just a corruption of the voting process, and would hope that it was somehow discouraged.
 
If my state had an open primary (Ohio does not), I would vote in a Republican one, despite considering myself a Democrat more than a Republican. Essentially, it's because I think I have a right to pick the best of the worst, so to speak. I don't want a Republican President under any circumstances, but I have to have one, I know I'd prefer Romney to Santorum. Because of that, I would consider it completely ethical, if for example I lived in Michigan, to go to the Republican primary and vote for Romney.

Of course, it's also possible to go to an open primary and try to rig an election, which is ostensibly why closed primaries exist. This is less ethical but I doubt it has any long term effect, and also poorly advisable. For example, I and droves of Democrats could go vote for Santorum out of the belief that he's less electable. But at this stage of the game, I don't know that there's a real difference of electability between the two candidates and the GOP is probably capable of bringing to bear the same results for either candidate against Obama. Given this, voting for Santorum in a primary could lead to a backfire in which giving our faux support to him in an attempt to ensure his defeat could lead to his victory.

So, in short, a move like that is both inadvisable and somewhat unethical, but for the most part, it's just not particularly logical. Either Santorum or Romney could probably do just as well as the other against Obama, so it makes more sense to vote for the best Republican if you vote at all, rather than try to vote for one that you think would get defeated.
 
Is it ethically acceptable to attempt to rig the primary election of the other party in hopes that you can get their weakest candidate elected? Or should your vote be limited by your conscience to a candidate that you genuinely see as the best/least worst choice?

I think you have to approach this question in two different ways. I'll start with the first way.

http://www.freep.com/article/201202...e-him-Romney-campaign-calls-desperate?odyssey

Since one of the potential nominees is actually the one encouraging this, I DON'T have a problem with it. The Santorum campaign is robocalling Democrats, basically pleading for them to come vote in the GOP primaries. In that case, I can't possibly fathom how it could not be ethically acceptable to do so, regardless of what your intention is.

The second situation, where Democrats are not encouraged, but do so anyways to vote a weak candidate...well, I don't think I have a problem with that. Elections, at the end of the day, are about who people want to win. And if enough Democrats come out to vote Ron Paul the winner, then Michigan wants Ron Paul.

I don't have a problem with it at all. The problem that I have is if anyone actually votes for Santorum, for any reason. That guy scares me, almost as much as Rick Perry. Maybe more.

So, in conclusion, I don't have a problem with it, ESPECIALLY when one of the candidates is the one encouraging it.
 
It is unethical? Maybe. Could it backfire? An unlikely possibility.

One thing it most certainly is though is proper politicking. Not the normal filibustering, defamation of an opponent's name or obstruction of a good piece of legislation just because it comes from the other side that dominates Amercian politics in particular. Good, old-fashioned manipulation of an overly elaborate system and the voters within it.

Personally, I think that if you have a problem with it, be more angry with the system that allows the potential for such negative voting rather than those who use it. We have something similar in this country with PR based council elections where parties will go out of their way to tell their voters to vote for another party to make sure that a third party does not win.

Sure, it can leave a bad taste in the mouth but then doesn't most politics?
 
Since one of the potential nominees is actually the one encouraging this, I DON'T have a problem with it. The Santorum campaign is robocalling Democrats, basically pleading for them to come vote in the GOP primaries. In that case, I can't possibly fathom how it could not be ethically acceptable to do so, regardless of what your intention is.

The second situation, where Democrats are not encouraged, but do so anyways to vote a weak candidate...well, I don't think I have a problem with that. Elections, at the end of the day, are about who people want to win. And if enough Democrats come out to vote Ron Paul the winner, then Michigan wants Ron Paul.

I don't have a problem with it at all. The problem that I have is if anyone actually votes for Santorum, for any reason. That guy scares me, almost as much as Rick Perry. Maybe more.

So, in conclusion, I don't have a problem with it, ESPECIALLY when one of the candidates is the one encouraging it.

Okay, I was NOT aware of that-that the Santorum campaign was robocalling democrats to come out and vote for him. In that case, NO I wouldn't see anything wrong with that specifically because of what Slyfox also mentioned about elections being all about who people want to win. That's a bit different. In the case of dems coming out to try and get a perceived "Weaker" candidate the nomination in an attempt to give the incumbent an easier go, I still think that is rather unethical and deceitful even if it is allowed.

That doesn't exactly represent the "Will of the People" in that scenario, it represents the will of certain people trying to rig an election in the favor of one candidate. It's unfair to the actual registered Republicans who are trying to get the best candidate possible elected, especially since those people screwing with the primaries aren't even Republicans. Reaching across the aisle for votes in a campaign is one thing, but reaching across the aisle uninvited to fuck up a campaign is another.

*Little known fact, Ba-Bomb is also scared of Rick Perry, and the Romneybot doesn't make me feel much more comfortable.
 
That doesn't exactly represent the "Will of the People" in that scenario, it represents the will of certain people trying to rig an election in the favor of one candidate. It's unfair to the actual registered Republicans who are trying to get the best candidate possible elected, especially since those people screwing with the primaries aren't even Republicans. Reaching across the aisle for votes in a campaign is one thing, but reaching across the aisle uninvited to fuck up a campaign is another.

But it is not rigging an election. That infers that there is cheating going on; something illegal like voting twice or destroying cast ballots.

It is merely voting for the candidate that best suits your political needs.
 
I think it's dumb, yeah. What's funny is that Romney just this week was condemning it, saying it's disgusting to do such a thing, etc - yet in the debates he was proud to say he's voted as a Democrat to fuck them up and try to make sure that a weaker candidate won. What a clown.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
174,826
Messages
3,300,732
Members
21,726
Latest member
chrisxenforo
Back
Top