The Cobra VS. The 619

[RockNWag]

I've seen in a number of threads, people bashing (and very few defending) The Cobra. They call it a ridiculous finisher, and say that Santino will never be taken serious with it. Rey Mysterio's most "devestating maneuver" is the 619. Rey Mysterio is a 2 time world Champion. Let's look at these finishers.

The Cobra

It's a known fact in the "Sports Entertainment" world that Santino Marella is a comedy character. In the ring, he has legit wrestling moves, often times done in a comedic manner. After Santino's opponent is dazed, and has his back turned, he sets up for the Cobra. His set up is very comedic. He extends his arm, bends his elbow, points his hand and BAM, he hits the Cobra and goes for the roll up.


The 619

Rey Mysterio is the little man that overcomes all odds. He has a high risk move set which derives from his Luchador roots. After Rey Mysterio is done getting a beat down by the bigger man in the ring, he explodes with his fast paced moves, receiving the upper hand, he's ready to set up for the 619. Rey either trips, throws or kicks his opponent, who then just so happens to fall onto the second rope. Rey gets his running start, swings his whole body and BOOM! 619.

The questions are as follows.

Which move is more ridiculous to you? Why?

Is a Superstar's finisher a deciding factor as to how big of a star he will be? Explain

Which superstar's set-up and execution is more believable?

Do these finishers take away from any reality of the match?

Feel free to answer any and all questions with your opinion. Feel free to bash the Op.

 

[RockFan89]

Which move is more ridiculous to you? Why?

The Cobra is way more ridiculous, it's just a poke to the eye. The 619 is really a legitimate move, it's just the setup which is ridiculous. No one ever ends up in that position on the second ropes unless they're facing Rey.

Is a Superstar's finisher a deciding factor as to how big of a star he will be? Explain

It could be, but as long as the finisher is believable, it can only help a person. For instance, I think the RKO has really helped to make Randy Orton one of the biggest stars in the business. On the other hand, I think Cena would have been successful even if he didn't have the Attitude Adjustment/FU.

Which superstar's set-up and execution is more believable?

The Cobra's set up is believable because all it requires is a dazed opponent about to turn around, which is common for most finishers. As I said, the 619 can only occur when the opponent is on the second rope.

Do these finishers take away from any reality of the match?

Of course the Cobra takes away from the reality of the match, when did poking someone's eye take someone out. If that were the case, the 3 stooges could have been the greatest stable in wrestling history.

But Santino is not supposed to be taken as seriously as Rey. Rey's 619 matches his character well, the underdog who always finds a way to win. I also think that a 619 coupled with a frog splash off the ropes could believably finish off an opponent.

 

[hdchz013]

Okay, My turn. Let's see if I'm able to answer these questions.

Which move is more ridiculous to me and why? I personally enjoy watching both wrestlers for two completely different reasons. Although I do know that Santino is a great athlete and has the potential to be much more than a comedy act...I prefer watching Rey for the athleticism. That being the case...I don't believe either move is more ridiculous than the other.
I do need to give a quick note to RockFan89 though. Why is it that you say that the Cobra is a jab to the eye when everytime I watch it...the commentators are saying it is a jab to the jugular. With me KNOWING that fact just from watching wrestling...I believe the Cobra has the "potential" to be much more devestating (sp.).

Is a superstar's finisher a deciding factor as to how big of a star he will become? I don't believe so. I agree with RockFan89 on this one. A Superstar with a punishing and believeable finisher does (IMO) have a better chance at becoming a big star...but at the same time...A great finisher is not needed. I'm not quite sure how to word what I'm trying to say about this question....I believe RockFan89 said it best.

Which superstar's set-up and execution is more believeable? Again, I have to go with RockFan89 on this one. From beginning to end, it is more believeable seeing Santino perform his finisher over Rey performing his.

Do these finishers take away from the believeability of the match? If I was watching a match and saw Santino perform The Cobra for the first time and I decided "this is bullS**t, There's not way he can win from that"...then I think I have no business watching in the first place. I understand that it's Entertainment...So I'm not going to complain about a little bit of unrealism.

 

[The Suplexer Perfecter]

The Cobra is way more ridiculous, it's just a poke to the eye. The 619 is really a legitimate move, it's just the setup which is ridiculous. No one ever ends up in that position on the second ropes unless they're facing Rey.

That is usually because Rey does a drop tole hold or something to make them on the middle rope.


But the Cobra is ridiculous, its just a poke to the head and he makes the pin. The 619 is a set up for a splash, a leg drop, or a west coast pop for the ultimate pin. He wouldn't do it if he was a serious wrestler.

But then again, what about The People's Elbow? It was The Rock just doing some arm movement then stepping over the guy to come back and drop an elbow on him.

 

[RockNWag]

Please excuse me not quoting correctly, my right click isn't working, lol.


"The Cobra is way more ridiculous, it's just a poke to the eye"

I have to disagree with you, because of one detail. Generally, after Santino hits the cobra, he dives right into a school boy. Now imagine fighting someone on the street. You guys are going at it...all of the sudden, he hits you in the face with the tips of 5 fingers. What the fuck is he doing? You're confused, he school boys you, you're going to be lost. Match one. (Although you don't win a fight with a three count)

I think the idea of having Rey frog splash or something of that nature after the 619 would make it much more believable. Great idea.

To me, the 619 takes realism away from the match a lot more than the Cobra does, purely because of the set up. I can believe the Cobra to an extent, with the rollup.

 

[Richard]

Which move is more ridiculous to you? Why?

I'd have to say The Cobra is the more rediculous move out of the two. It just looks so weak although I've only seen it a few times, isn't it just Santino poking his hand really fast into the person?

Is a Superstar's finisher a deciding factor as to how big of a star he will be? Explain

No, not at all, you could have a completely normal boring finishing move and still be a mega star. See Hulk Hogan with his leg drop, it's just a leg drop, but who is it by? Hulk Hogan, one of the most recogniseable names in pro wrestling for the outside world. Also the peoples elbow could be considered aswell.

Which superstar's set-up and execution is more believable?

I'm actually going to go with Rey's. What's so unbelieveable about a drop toe hold and tripping someone over? That's all he's doing, nothing fancy and flashy like the Canadian Destroyer. It's quite a normal move in setting up the 619 so yeah.

Do these finishers take away from any reality of the match?

I'd say that The Cobra does. Apparantly we're supposed to believe that this once joke of a move, hand thrust/poke of doom is now a serious match winning technique which can be used to win tag championships? Come on, I'm a Santino fan but even I can admit that it's just a bit bullshit. Atleast with the 619, he's gaining some momentum and kicking them in the face. The only thing I don't like about the 619 is how much some people sell it by bouncing more than half way across the ring sometimes. Other then that, the 619 is a serious finishing move and helped him win numerous titles in the WWE, it does not take away reality from the match because yes, getting kicked in the face does hurt.

 

[holdingholder]

The Cobra is obviously not a poke to the eyes, it's a jabbing chop to the throat. That being said, remember just a couple of years ago, Umaga (rip) was running roughshod over damn near everybody with his samoan spike move. If you ask me, both are formed on the same principle, and should by all means be a believable finisher. If someone were to jab you to the throat, it would definitely cause considerable damage, and if I'm not mistaken, such moves are illegal in mma. And as far as the 619, 175 pounds spinning and kicking you in the face and following it up with the west coast pop or a splash or whatever is good enough to take out anybody if you ask me.

 

[bigbootydaddyV]

they are both rather ridiculous... though the natural edge goes to the Cobra which is as bad as the rock bottom and the worm.. Personally I can't stand the drawn out finishers that are just some lame move after, such as those three. The 619 while far from my favorite is still a little believable as a move that can do some "damage." My only issue with it is the fact that it didn't even start out as a move and was more exciting when it wasn't. When rey did the move in WCW he didn't have to hit a guy he just did it to face the right direction and the crowd would go nuts. Now in WWE it's an actual maneuver that is just kind of stupid but whatever it's not as far fetched as the rock bottom and worm.


Is a Superstar's finisher a deciding factor as to how big of a star he will be? Explain
I would like to think so but obviously not as some of the most ridiculous finishers belong to the biggest stars (again the rock bottom).

Which superstar's set-up and execution is more believable?

I think santinos since it doesn't require perfect timing by another wrestler as well, just that the guy has to be dazed and getting up, no diff from sweet chin music or anything else.. rey's actually has to have the guy somehow ending up in the right position.


Do these finishers take away from any reality of the match?

YES... easily.. they kill what would be an otherwise entertaining match, those rey's more than santino's since almost the whole match with santino is a joke.

 

[Aotearoa (Bushwacker)]

Which move is more ridiculous to you? Why?
I dont find either ridiculous per-se but If I have to say which is more then probably the cobra. In saying that though there were many ridiculous finishers that are considered legitimate. Take HBK's superkick for example. The build up to that is way over the top and ridiculous and it knocks an opponent out. It is just a kick, wrestlers get kicked all the time but cause its a finishers it knocks someone out.

Is a Superstar's finisher a deciding factor as to how big of a star he will be? Explain
YES, I think so. Two example that have been given previously as getting wrestlers over with finishers were John Cena and Randy Orton, BUT would Cena's FU have been as big if Brock Lesnar was still around and still using it or Ortons RKO if stone cold were still around and using the stunner? In saying that though, Kane and Undertaker own the chokeslam, anybody else using it would look silly it's theirs and characterises them.

Which superstar's set-up and execution is more believable?
Neither is particularly believable but I guess being kicked by Rey through the ropes would hurt more and do more damage than being poked by Santino. Alot of finishers are not particularly believeable. Anybody can do a spear and it does minimal damage but cause it is Edges finisher it knocks someone out, I dont see how that could work.

Do these finishers take away from any reality of the match?
I dont think it takes away from the reality really at all. Wrestling in general takes away from the reality. I mean if two people were really going to have a fight why not just go at it, never mind jumping around and off ropes etc. just go for a straight up knockout punch. But it is not supposed to be reality and that is why I watch.

 

[DethMetal]

Which move is more ridiculous to you? Why?

The Cobra may be the most idiotic move in the history of pro wrestling. More so than the People's Elbow, Spinaroonie and the...whatever Goldust does(yeah, that was lame).


Is a Superstar's finisher a deciding factor as to how big of a star he will be? Explain

Absolutely. I mean, sure. The People's Elbow was quite dumb(although far more entertaining than the Cobra), but it's not like it was all he had. He had big impact moves, moves that led him to 7 world titles. What a superstar does decides who he is, and quite frankly, Santino ain't goin anywhere.


Which superstar's set-up and execution is more believable?

619. Cobra is just poke, roll-up, 1-2-3. With 619, you get that, plus leg drop or whatever. I believe someone would go down to that more.


Do these finishers take away from any reality of the match?

Yes. I mean And this works for many guys. Ok, say you have Mysterio v. Kane(post push of course). Kane obliterates him, and Rey comes back with a 619 and whatever and wins. And I have an egg on my face asking how????

But thats just me.

 

[RatedRockstar]

finishers definitely help in deciding how big youll be, it helps personify the wrestler, now the cobra is funny and ridiculous like the worm but the 619 is actually not bad set a guy up bash him in the face with your feet with all the force you can then springboard into a splash...not a bad match ender really just not abig rey fan

 

[thorn85]

Mick Foley = Mr. Socko

The Rock = People's Elbow

Santino = The Cobra

Rikishi = The Stink Face

Hulk Hogan = The Leg Drop

Roddy Piper = The Sleeper Hold

Dusty Rhodes = Grab my crotch and elbow to face

No matter whether you believe the 619 or the cobra hurts the opponent you love the anticipation when you see it coming. Stuff that the crowd eats up = titles around the waist of the wrestler!

Also I know some things maybe just signature moves they still are not believable...the most ridiculous was the Bronco Buster IMO but it was hilarious to watch Xpac's crotch slam into another dudes face!

 

[sam_the_man_2]

First of all the move is a thrust to the throat... That would daze a person then the rollup... Whereas only in Rey's matches does anyone end up on the second rope... Thus the Cobra is far more believable