The Chris Benoit Situation

[CRUSH316]

I have seen Kurt Angle make Chris Benoit tap out during their WWE Title feud on Smackdown a few years back So it has happened...And Benoit made Angle tap aswell so any argument that those two never tapout is voided.I believe HBK also made Benoit tap by using the Sharpshooter in a match promoting the HHH/HBK/Benoit match at Backlash.So while it is rare, it's happened a good bit.

As for John Cena..I don't see a problem..Don't get me wrong..I'm a big traditionalist and I respect Benoit more than anybody in this business with the possible exceptions of Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels..But what better way to push Cena than making Benoit tap..Plus, John Cena was able to do what Shawn Michaels couldn't in 2004 and that was defeat Chris Benoit..And believe it or not, this may help fuel a Benoit heel turn when he comes to Raw after Wrestlemania so don't sell it short just yet...I know not many of you like John Cena but WWE is moving Benoit to Raw to give him a fresh start and to give Raw more MAIN EVENT level talent to feud with the WWE Champion since Triple H is out and Edge and Randy Orton are gonna be tied up in a feud the next few months.I'm not Cena's biggest fan but i'm not his biggest hater either...Regardless of opinions, that Man goes out and busts his ass everyday and doesn't just sit back and rely on his looks to get him pushed and doesn't even try to improve like Batista does.If anyone should lose their Title at WM, it should be Batista. Atleast John Cena is respected by his peers for actually TRYING to improve...And I saw him in OVW as the Protype..He HAS skills if WWE would just let him use them. Chris Benoit should be at the Ric Flair-Mick Foley stage at his career...In WWE more to put over younger talent as opposed to furthering an already legendary career.. Chris Benoit's legacy is sealed..It was sealed the moment He made Triple H tap out to win the World Heavyweight Title..He has nothing left to prove..He's won every major Title in WCW and WWE..He didn't NEED to beat John Cena...John Cena NEEDED to beat Benoit or lose all momentum just two weeks away from Wrestlemania. Nothing would have been gained by Chris Benoit defeating John Cena..What's that gonna do?Give him an edge against Montel Vontavious Porter the Purple Power Ranger?Give me a break..Cena needed this 10x more than Chris Benoit regardless of how Benoit fans feel.

 

[thelcon21]

He didn't NEED to beat John Cena...John Cena NEEDED to beat Benoit or lose all momentum just two weeks away from Wrestlemania. Nothing would have been gained by Chris Benoit defeating John Cena..What's that gonna do?Give him an edge against Montel Vontavious Porter the Purple Power Ranger?Give me a break..Cena needed this 10x more than Chris Benoit regardless of how Benoit fans feel.

I agree with that but I think everyone is upset because Benoit tapped out. It would of been one thing for him to get pinned but they made him look really bad by making him tap. Something like that should be on a big PPV but a match on Raw. I also think people just want something fresh. We ALWAYS see Cena in the Main Event. Look at the Undertakers or HBKs career they weren't always in the Main Event and they weren' always challenging for the title but maybe 4 to 5 PPVs a year they are able to step in for the main event with the title or not.

 

[Prax]

Actually that's a lie. In the mid to late ninetess when HBK and Taker were at the peak of their careers and arguably the peak of their popularity they were ALWAYS in the main events. When HBK was a face champion in the mid ninetees (after he won the title in the Iron Man Match at WrestleMania), he was on the main event of RAW EVERY WEEK facing nobodies, so the fans could see him win and to further his dominance as a champion.

In the attitude era it was the same with the Undertaker... I don't even remember how many times we saw Undertaker vs. Steve Austin in 1998! Same thing for Undertaker vs. Mankind on RAW!

Like I said before, the truth is that the majority likes Cena... which means he needs to be on TV every week. He's the face of WWE now.

And as for the argument that it made Benoit looks bad by tapping, I disagree. It made Cena look really good. CRUSH said it better than anyone. Cena made Benoit tap... HBK couldn't even beat him two years ago. That gives him an edge heading into the Wrestlemania match. It's perfect booking, actually.

And it still gives Benoit an edge coming out of Wrestlemania. Once he moves to RAW he'll be a man on a mission, he'll actually have a purpose, unlike anything he's done since he lost the championship to Orton, essentially. This is exactly what Benoit needs if he's going to give it one last push in his career.

 

[Prax]

The answer to that question is yes, he does. That's how wrestlers are pushed and are brought to a higher level in wrestling, that's how it's always been.

You beat the guys no one ever expected you to beat. That's why Randy Orton did his whole Legend Tour all that time.

Without beating all those legends, Orton would be nothing, no one would remember him. Now he has a Legacy (no pun intended) that will be remembered for years to come.

That's the intention with Cena beating Benoit on RAW on monday night. Cena beat the man HBK couldn't at wrestlemania.

 

[thelcon21]

Actually that's a lie. In the mid to late ninetess when HBK and Taker were at the peak of their careers and arguably the peak of their popularity they were ALWAYS in the main events. When HBK was a face champion in the mid ninetees (after he won the title in the Iron Man Match at WrestleMania), he was on the main event of RAW EVERY WEEK facing nobodies, so the fans could see him win and to further his dominance as a champion.
In the attitude era it was the same with the Undertaker... I don't even remember how many times we saw Undertaker vs. Steve Austin in 1998! Same thing for Undertaker vs. Mankind on RAW!

In 1996 after Shawn won the title there weren't any main eventers to take the title. Bret Hart took most of that year off, Kevin Nash left for WCW, Undertaker was hurt, and Stone Cold was the Ring Master until the King of the Ring. All they had was Vader and Sid give me a break (even though Sid ended up taking the title from Shawn).

What I was getting at is that this is Cena's third Wrestlemania in the Main Event in only a 6 year career. This will only be Undertakers second and HBK's fifth.

I see your a Cena fan and thats fine I don't hate the guy myself. I just want something different for a while. Main eventers spend time out of the spot light. People like Shawn, Hunter and Undertaker don't need to always be in the main event to be a star.

Since this has gotten off topic my main point is John Cena is WWE Champion I didn't know he needed to be pushed at the expense of Chris Benoit in order to make himself look good going into Wrestlemania. Shawn is the one who is the challenger he is the one who needs to go into the match with the momentum whether he wins or loses.

 

[vlad]

the thing about tna is that every person that youre gonna use as a champion....theyre talented. samoa joe, kurt angle, aj styles, christian, abyss, sting, rhino, chris sabin, alex shelley, austin starr, senshi, lax.....all these people have talent but havea couple of cases where they misuse the talent but wwe misuses talent all the time. batista as world champ is a joke, cena is terrible too but this guy is a hard worker and has my respect now. lashley started off great and is now gettin terrible, umaga is our intercontinental champ....WHAT THE FUCK!!! its terible...benoit is soo talented he could make batista look good...ok i went to far but u know what i mean

 

[ErkBono23]

In 1996 after Shawn won the title there weren't any main eventers to take the title. Bret Hart took most of that year off, Kevin Nash left for WCW, Undertaker was hurt, and Stone Cold was the Ring Master until the King of the Ring. All they had was Vader and Sid give me a break (even though Sid ended up taking the title from Shawn).

What I was getting at is that this is Cena's third Wrestlemania in the Main Event in only a 6 year career. This will only be Undertakers second and HBK's fifth.

I see your a Cena fan and thats fine I don't hate the guy myself. I just want something different for a while. Main eventers spend time out of the spot light. People like Shawn, Hunter and Undertaker don't need to always be in the main event to be a star.

Since this has gotten off topic my main point is John Cena is WWE Champion I didn't know he needed to be pushed at the expense of Chris Benoit in order to make himself look good going into Wrestlemania. Shawn is the one who is the challenger he is the one who needs to go into the match with the momentum whether he wins or loses.

yes shawn is the challenger but he is also the legend and icon in this match..he really doesnt need any momentum because his past in the wwe speaks for itself...therefore really the underdog in this match will be cena from an overall stand pont...and this wrestlemania you have wwe's past against its future and clearly the legends will beat the future...he needs to be pushed at the expense of chris benoit esp by submission to show STORYLINE WISE not about who is the better wrestler overall or who could actually out beat who but STORYLINE WISE that cena MIGHT have a chance against hbk

 

[Capt. Charisma]

Yea but the problem with your argument is that Cena isnt good in the ring therefore there is not any appeal from wrestling fans, hes not all that good on the mic so there is little support from the fans who like the storylines. That leaves women, children, the gimmick fans(of which there arent all that many, but fans of kane would be an example of this), wiggas, and fans that are sooo insecure about heel wrestlers they always support the face, oh and also anyone who thinks wrestling is real. It seems that I am not the only one that thinks the reason Cena is been pushed ahead of guys like benoit is not because of like the Cena fans have been arguing about his marketability, its because he kisses Vinces arse...

"WWE Champion John Cena is seen as Vince McMahon’s “pet” around most locker room circles. John Cena and Vince McMahon spend a lot of time together backstage on television days. Reports are suggesting that it has started to get frustrating to more than one main event wrestler."

 

[watchingandwaiting]

Originally posted by : Capt. Charisma

Yea but the problem with your argument is that Cena isnt good in the ring therefore there is not any appeal from wrestling fans, hes not all that good on the mic so there is little support from the fans who like the storylines. That leaves women, children, the gimmick fans(of which there arent all that many, but fans of kane would be an example of this), wiggas, and fans that are sooo insecure about heel wrestlers they always support the face, oh and also anyone who thinks wrestling is real. It seems that I am not the only one that thinks the reason Cena is been pushed ahead of guys like benoit is not because of like the Cena fans have been arguing about his marketability, its because he kisses Vinces arse...

"WWE Champion John Cena is seen as Vince McMahon’s “pet” around most locker room circles. John Cena and Vince McMahon spend a lot of time together backstage on television days. Reports are suggesting that it has started to get frustrating to more than one main event wrestler."

Let me start by freely admitting to being a Cena fan (even though I'd like to think that I don't belong to any of the catagories you listed that Cena fans fall into), but at the same time I'm going to attempt to be objective.
While obviously there is no debate about Benoit being worlds better than Cena in terms of in-ring skills, I think that Cena is at the very least watchable and capable of both putting on good matches now (when paired with a stronger performer) and developing as time goes on to become an upper tier performer. You can learn wrestling moves through practice but bringing natural energy to the ring is something you either have or you don't. It's kind of like how they say "you can't teach tall" in basketball. Also, I think that his mic skills are a lot better than you give him credit for.

That said, I don't think that Benoit tapping out to the STFU is going to cause the world to end. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember anyone ever breaking the STFU, so its not like Benoit tapped out to a weak move (I remember Triple H getting to the ropes the first time Cena put it on him at last 'Mania, but I'm talking about either reversing or powering out). I also think that having Benoit tap actually opens up some interesting booking options. Benoit being the person who tapped to the STFU puts it over as a legit submission finisher more than anyone else who has ever tapped to it. If Cena and Benoit do fued over the title, an amazing way for Benoit to win it would be to reverse out of the STFU. That way he gets not only the rub from the title win but also for being the first person to get out of that (now legit) hold.

It might suck for now that Benoit tapped out to the STFU, but it might a job that helps puts him further over down the line

 

[Kasey]

Cena sucks. Sucks. SUCKS. I don't know how many times I'm going to have to speak of this, but I'll keep on keeping on until somebody actually gets it. He participated in the last two Wrestlemanias and was the prime catalyst in a pair of stink-bombs that were supposed to be main events. I'm sorry, but the cornerstone of the company should at least be able to control a crowd ON HIS OWN WITHOUT HAVING TO DEPEND ON A SUPERIOR WORKER TO DO THE DAMN THING FOR HIM. Hell, even Hogan knew how to keep the fans active, even if he only had a handful of moves to work with and the lamest finisher combo ever.

The sad fact is that Cena was reviled by the fans during the period of time that was supposed to be his finest hour, because his push FLOPPED. All ********s like J.R. could say were things like "some people just don't take a shine to this unorthodox young man." What?!? Are you f**king serious with this? The truth is that Vince and his whack pack of marketing dunces force-fed Cena down everyone's throat and had to shuffle booking plans and negate angles because NOBODY LIKED HIM. This is why they didn't prolong a feud with Angle or Christian and ended up shuffling those two off to the other show. Even as a long-standing heel, Christian outpopped him and schooled his ass on the mic. Everyone was cheering wildly the evening Angle showed up on Raw and german suplexed Cena out of his shoes.

As for the situation regarding Benoit? It further served to bury the credibility that they spent a large portion of 2003 and 2004 establishing when they booked the best main event match in Wrestlemania history at WM20. Not only is Benoit a midcard bottom-feeder at present sporting a title that is a complete asswipe, but now he gets to switch shows for a week so he can be fed to a talentless wonder. Some push. At least in TNA or Japan he wouldn't be $hit on like this. They've had one of the best technical wrestlers in the history of the game in their back pocket for years now, and the only moment he's had to truly shine he's had was for a 6-month shot in 2004. Benoit needs to wise up and get the hell out of Dodge before his body can't hold up any longer and they've completely siphoned the life out of his career/legacy.

 

[thelcon21]

Cena sucks. Sucks. SUCKS. I don't know how many times I'm going to have to speak of this, but I'll keep on keeping on until somebody actually gets it. He participated in the last two Wrestlemanias and was the prime catalyst in a pair of stink-bombs that were supposed to be main events. I'm sorry, but the cornerstone of the company should at least be able to control a crowd ON HIS OWN WITHOUT HAVING TO DEPEND ON A SUPERIOR WORKER TO DO THE DAMN THING FOR HIM. Hell, even Hogan knew how to keep the fans active, even if he only had a handful of moves to work with and the lamest finisher combo ever.

The sad fact is that Cena was reviled by the fans during the period of time that was supposed to be his finest hour, because his push FLOPPED. All ********s like J.R. could say were things like "some people just don't take a shine to this unorthodox young man." What?!? Are you f**king serious with this? The truth is that Vince and his whack pack of marketing dunces force-fed Cena down everyone's throat and had to shuffle booking plans and negate angles because NOBODY LIKED HIM. This is why they didn't prolong a feud with Angle or Christian and ended up shuffling those two off to the other show. Even as a long-standing heel, Christian outpopped him and schooled his ass on the mic. Everyone was cheering wildly the evening Angle showed up on Raw and german suplexed Cena out of his shoes.

As for the situation regarding Benoit? It further served to bury the credibility that they spent a large portion of 2003 and 2004 establishing when they booked the best main event match in Wrestlemania history at WM20. Not only is Benoit a midcard bottom-feeder at present sporting a title that is a complete asswipe, but now he gets to switch shows for a week so he can be fed to a talentless wonder. Some push. At least in TNA or Japan he wouldn't be $hit on like this. They've had one of the best technical wrestlers in the history of the game in their back pocket for years now, and the only moment he's had to truly shine he's had was for a 6-month shot in 2004. Benoit needs to wise up and get the hell out of Dodge before his body can't hold up any longer and they've completely siphoned the life out of his career/legacy.

I def agree with everything you are saying. I don't hate Cena and I do think his feud with HBK is pretty good as long as they don't mess it up at Wrestlemania. HBK is very capable of of carrying any wrestler through a match he even carried Hogan during their summerslam match. We all know what is going to happen though the same exact thing that happened to Benoit on Raw. I just have this bad feeling Shawn is going to tap out at Wrestlemania. Maybe after Umaga loses to Lashley we will have another Cena vs Umaga feud ::rolling my eyes::.

I've said this a million times Vince thinks by putting people over he needs to hurt others character. Perfect example when it was HBK vs. Orton vs. Edge, Shawn asked Cena who he wanted to win. Cena said "Edge because I can beat him in seconds." I'm not a writer but they spent all of 2006 pushing Edge as a mainevent heel was that really needed.

There is a reason the WWE is lacking main eventers on all 3 shows. The three champions don't know how to push anyone else. Since the beginning of the year stars like Orton, Umaga, King Booker, Kane, Benoit and Kennedy have jobbed to Cena, Batista and Lashley. People gave Triple H crap for years for not putting people over but when the time was right for a change and it was the right thing to do he put stars like Benoit in 2004, Batista in 2005, and Cena in 2006 over. I can't even tell you the last time I saw any of our champions lose with out someone hitting them with a chair or some sort of object. It had to be some time before summer slam.

I'm actually looking forward to Wrestlemania this year. WWE has a chance to throw us some change ups and give the titles to people who can actually hold them with some honor. I think a Benoit vs HBK program would be better then a Benoit vs Cena program and a Undertaker vs anyone would be better then a Batista vs anyone.