The Anti-TNA Idiocy Of Justin LaBar And Josh Isenberg

[Rayne]

So what do you define yourself as then? You don't consider yourself a true wrestling fan, explain...please.

I used to make money from professional wrestling and I don't anymore. I am an interested observer. When I watch the product, which is less and less these days, I am someone giving money to the wrestling companies in terms of my viewership. In a sense, I am both kinds of fan.

Right, but they are bringing something up about TNA's business practices and saying that the company's breaking promises. Again I stand by my right as a fan to have issue with that. Plain and simple.

That's fine. You also have a right to be upset when the referee CLEARLY can see AJ's tights being pulled when he's being pinned, but counts the fall anyways and leaves for the back. It doesn't make that any more legitimate, but you absolutely have that right. Plain and simple.

Ok, I can meet you half way on that, but it doesn't change how I feel about the tactics of LaBar and Isenberg, no way no how and in my view they were still presenting themselves as reporting "something"...so therefore I'm chocking them up into the category of news reporting in this instance.

And there's no such thing as "news reporting" in the sense that you intend it in professional wrestling. There is no 50/50 here, it simply doesn't exist, except as an illusion that people can choose to believe in or not.

Again, I stand by what I said, Isenberg and LaBar if this issue was really important to them would go and send this information to other outlets, instead they choose to use their show to bring this up.

Again. The only thing they care about are page clicks and viewer visit time. This information doesn't mean dick to them. They would report on it even if they KNEW it was false, but could get a few more people to watch. Two weeks ago Justin Labar posted a link implying it was the footage of Randy Savage's accident, when it was a link to a news video from Florida about the accident.

Justin Labar is a leech, from all I've seen of him. You're still hanging on this idea that he has, or even thinks he has, some kind of duty or responsibility to other wrestling fans. All he wants you to do is click on his link. Have issues with THAT. But stop bringing up all this bullshit about true wrestling fans, news reporting, or all of that crap that has nothing to do with what's going on here besides the illusions you are creating for yourself.

 

[JJYanks121]

Wow, this whole thing is ridiculous. Literally, this might be one of the most over the top threads I've ever seen and it's over about 1 minute of broadcast on an internet radio show.

I saw the video and I can't believe that some have taken it this way. It was a passing thing that I forgot about minutes after I saw it. People email those guys all the time and they chose to read one because it upset them. Story closed I think. Obviously not.

While I understand that many of the advertisers for CSR put them in a position to talk about WWE, that does NOT mean that they have to dislike other promotions. It means that their time must be used as stipulated by advertisers. As I embark on a new project, hosting a radio show, I am learning this daily. Originally, our show was going to be backed by a small wrestling promotion in Atlanta, but having them as the key backer would mean that our time would be spent promoting that promotion. As such, my co-host and I negotiated so that we would simply have to mention their promotion a couple of times, not talk about their product for an hour. Talking about them for more than a minute would surely turn away viewers and we knew that it was bad business for us. That said, the small promotion never told us even when they wanted our show about them, to belittle and bash any other promotion, big or small. It is possible in this world to speak highly of one thing without speaking poorly of another.

For instance, I very much enjoy Snapple iced tea. It is my favorite, but that doesn't mean I hate Arizona iced tea, nestea, lipton, or any other brand. I will tell people how much I like Snapple, but I won't say "snapple's great, so much better than that shitty Nestea stuff. Why would I need to do that?

Back to this story, what I understand the least is how a conspiracy theory came out of it? Where's the proof? Really? Explain to me why the show would take time to read a fake email. Again, they have no reason to mindless bash a company. I feel like they got the email and it was upsetting and it was almost a call to action. Perhaps the fault here is that these guys are told their show has more influence than it actually does so that presenting this email doesn't actually rally people to support the guy so TNA rectifies the situation.

In no way though do I believe that the CSR guys made up an email to bash TNA. These guys may not enjoy TNA's television show, and honestly, they have every right not to. There is no rule that says they have to be satisfied with TNA's show. Hell, there's plenty of people that aren't. The show is different than the business though. This is a business dealing and the fan (yes it's a real fan because again, why the hell wouldn't it be) is upset with TNA due to their business not handling them. It's entirely possible that this happened and if it did, it's unfortunate. It's no reason to start this anti-TNA tirade though.

I close by saying that the only criticism I can understand is whether their show was the right place to bring this to light. That I can understand. I cannot understand accusing this of being fake because there's no reason to slander a business AT ALL. As Rayne said, it's also illegal. Where's the proof? What do you want? The guy's email address so TNA fanboys can email him yelling at him? His facebook account? His address? No one is going to give that out! It's real because there's no reason for it not to be real. It's real and unfortunate, but it was a minor spec on a show that talked about a plethora of other topics. Had this thread not existed, I would have forgotten about this by now. It's honestly not that big a deal. I hope the fan gets this situation rectified because it's not good business, but to the rest of us, it's no big deal at all.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

Justin Labar is a leech, from all I've seen of him. You're still hanging on this idea that he has, or even thinks he has, some kind of duty or responsibility to other wrestling fans. All he wants you to do is click on his link. Have issues with THAT. But stop bringing up all this bullshit about true wrestling fans, news reporting, or all of that crap that has nothing to do with what's going on here besides the illusions you are creating for yourself.

If you have a problem with what my stances then that's all hunky dornky, good for you, seriously. This thread was intended to discuss matters with people about something Justin LaBar and Josh Isenberg said, again I am not harping on anything about storylines or booking decisions.

I am not creating any illusions I am merely just stating something I didn't agree with, if you don't like the subject matter that anyone here is discussing, then beat it. You already gave us your two cents and that's all well and good.

I see it the way I see it and you see it the way you see it, but fuck it, I'll still stand by what I said, but don't dare accuse me of creating any illusions because I assure you I am not.

 

[Rayne]

If you have a problem with what my stances then that's all hunky dornky, good for you, seriously. This thread was intended to discuss matters with people about something Justin LaBar and Josh Isenberg said, again I am not harping on anything about storylines or booking decisions.

I am not creating any illusions I am merely just stating something I didn't agree with, if you don't like the subject matter that anyone here is discussing, then beat it. You already gave us your two cents and that's all well and good.

I see it the way I see it and you see it the way you see it, but fuck it, I'll still stand by what I said, but don't dare accuse me of creating any illusions because I assure you I am not.

And if you want to insist that the mirage is real, I can't stop you. Good luck trying to say "stop talking, this is my thread" though, no one's ever been successful at that. You want to discuss matters with people- well, I'm people. I think you want to discuss things with people in a form that you had already expected was going to happen when you started posting, and that never happens on a message board.

I know you aren't harping on storylines or booking decisions, but what you aren't grasping is that bitching about fake news reporting is the exact same thing. The only problem is that you know that one is pretend, and you haven't figured out that the other is pretend. Disagree with it all you want! Disagree with R-Truth hitting Cena with a microphone behind the referees back- I mean, we have instant replay, so they should be able to come out and restart the match, right? Disagreeing with what Labar and Isenberg say is exactly the same thing, because either way you are paying attention to the product and providing them with what they need, viewer clicks and visit time.

If you want to believe that people have integrity and honesty in professional wrestling, you are the people that this business is based on. Without people like you constantly and repeatedly buying in, this whole house of cards would still be running in traveling tents around the country. So by all means! Stand by what you believe in! See it the way you see it! And make sure to tell everyone that you watched someone's show and had a strong reaction to it, because other people need you to make them money.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

And if you want to insist that the mirage is real, I can't stop you. Good luck trying to say "stop talking, this is my thread" though, no one's ever been successful at that. You want to discuss matters with people- well, I'm people. I think you want to discuss things with people in a form that you had already expected was going to happen when you started posting, and that never happens on a message board.

Again, I NEVER said Labar and Isenberg are lying, I'm just saying I have no reason to just outright buy into what they are selling. BIG DIFFERENCE! And you're right you can't stop me from saying what I am saying much like I can't stop you either. But I never once said there was a mirage here, I just have questioned what they said and if I did that in less than delicate terms while also slamming their online program....so be it.

I know you aren't harping on storylines or booking decisions, but what you aren't grasping is that bitching about fake news reporting is the exact same thing. The only problem is that you know that one is pretend, and you haven't figured out that the other is pretend. Disagree with it all you want! Disagree with R-Truth hitting Cena with a microphone behind the referees back- I mean, we have instant replay, so they should be able to come out and restart the match, right? Disagreeing with what Labar and Isenberg say is exactly the same thing, because either way you are paying attention to the product and providing them with what they need, viewer clicks and visit time.

I don't agree that it's the same thing, I go into wrestling watching it and understanding now that all its traditional tropes are just part of the show. That doesn't mean I still can't enjoy the choreography of it.

From this ONE episode I viewed (I had not watched them before), LaBar and Isenberg present a behind the scenes look at things, they talk about wrestling being a fictional work. So with that said am I supposed to look at their mentioning this TNA Impact customer service controversy to be a "work" then? I don't plan on watching another edition of CSR but considering the subject matter I thought I'd take a gander at what I saw.

If you want to believe that people have integrity and honesty in professional wrestling, you are the people that this business is based on. Without people like you constantly and repeatedly buying in, this whole house of cards would still be running in traveling tents around the country. So by all means! Stand by what you believe in! See it the way you see it! And make sure to tell everyone that you watched someone's show and had a strong reaction to it, because other people need you to make them money.

I still stand by what I said but nice trying getting all cute by trying to bring "kayfabe" into this, in this discussion it does not apply. I never said that TNA Impact Wrestling was not capable of ripping off a fan or making a mistake on this matter. If I was truly buying into anything I would say that TNA could do no wrong, I would say a lot of different things.

 

[Rayne]

I still stand by what I said but nice trying getting all cute by trying to bring "kayfabe" into this, in this discussion it does not apply. I never said that TNA Impact Wrestling was not capable of ripping off a fan or making a mistake on this matter. If I was truly buying into anything I would say that TNA could do no wrong, I would say a lot of different things.

No, you still don't grasp it yet. You are still trying to draw this distinction between "kayfaybe", meaning the storylines and plots of professional wrestling, and all of the endless speculation that goes on on internet dirt sheets. All the internet is, as far as professional wrestling is concerned, is a lot more space with which to craft mystery and intrigue for the product. It's all kayfaybe. You just think that the game stops when your television turns off.

Did Bobby Heenan owe it to the face wrestlers to provide fair, even commentary? No, because his job was to provide a counterfoil for Gorilla Monsoon's call of the action. CSR is exactly the same thing, you just haven't figured that out yet. You are drawing some imaginary distinction between the two. They encourage that; it is people's perception of them as 'news reporters' that keeps people watching their show. It doesn't make it TRUE. Anyone who works in professional wrestling has a very flexible definition for 'truth'.

So it doesn't matter if Labar and Isenberg were LYING or not; I'm not accusing them of lying, nor would I care either way if they were. What they are trying to do is sell you a product. That's what I am trying to explain to you; you have this illusion that they are presenting news that is intended to be unbiased and accurate, and feel they are failing at that. That's not what they are doing at all. They are trying to sell a product. I don't care if you personally watch it or not; enough people do to make what they're doing work for them. You are allowing yourself to think they are a news program, with duties towards accurate reporting and journalistic standards, when the only thing they are trying to do is get people to watch their videos.

The biggest mistake you are making is in thinking that professional wrestling is divided up into two segments; one on television that everyone knows is fake, and this second, secret world where all of the truths of the fake stuff are revealed, this secret world where suddenly everyone speaks honestly and wants to get The Facts out. This is why professional wrestlers look down on smarks; they act like they know so much about the business, but all they're buying is a second set of goods that can turn out to be just as fake as the first.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

No, you still don't grasp it yet. You are still trying to draw this distinction between "kayfaybe", meaning the storylines and plots of professional wrestling, and all of the endless speculation that goes on on internet dirt sheets. All the internet is, as far as professional wrestling is concerned, is a lot more space with which to craft mystery and intrigue for the product. It's all kayfaybe. You just think that the game stops when your television turns off.

Fair enough Isenberg and LaBar are kayfabing it up, that I can agree with you on and I will admit I am playing into a good amount of what they are doing.

Did Bobby Heenan owe it to the face wrestlers to provide fair, even commentary? No, because his job was to provide a counterfoil for Gorilla Monsoon's call of the action. CSR is exactly the same thing, you just haven't figured that out yet. You are drawing some imaginary distinction between the two. They encourage that; it is people's perception of them as 'news reporters' that keeps people watching their show. It doesn't make it TRUE. Anyone who works in professional wrestling has a very flexible definition for 'truth'.

Again if you want this defense of yours to hold water, go and reference other posts related to LaBar and Isenberg, I don't think I am the first one to make a comment about their "presentation". But for the love of christ referencing how a legend like Bobby Heenan portrayed his character in a juxtaposition with Gorilla Monsoon and comparing that to LaBar and Isenberg's tripe is outright insulting to the legacies of both "The Brain" and "The Gorilla". If you want to really stand your ground on this topic stick to the subject and discuss other wrestling tabloid personalities and not true figures in the business, thank you very much. But yes if we want to continue playing this game, someone like Mark Madden (who's since transitioned from on air wrestling personality to an internet one) would be a far better example to discuss than bringing up the on-air product.

So it doesn't matter if Labar and Isenberg were LYING or not; I'm not accusing them of lying, nor would I care either way if they were. What they are trying to do is sell you a product. That's what I am trying to explain to you; you have this illusion that they are presenting news that is intended to be unbiased and accurate, and feel they are failing at that. That's not what they are doing at all. They are trying to sell a product. I don't care if you personally watch it or not; enough people do to make what they're doing work for them. You are allowing yourself to think they are a news program, with duties towards accurate reporting and journalistic standards, when the only thing they are trying to do is get people to watch their videos.

Like I said I stand by the fact that the TNA Impact Wrestling statement was just something I felt would be a good discussion piece for a topic. And I don't regret that created this thread one bit. Maybe I am not completely correct in how I approached it or how I've discussed it but that's how I feel.

The biggest mistake you are making is in thinking that professional wrestling is divided up into two segments; one on television that everyone knows is fake, and this second, secret world where all of the truths of the fake stuff are revealed, this secret world where suddenly everyone speaks honestly and wants to get The Facts out. This is why professional wrestlers look down on smarks; they act like they know so much about the business, but all they're buying is a second set of goods that can turn out to be just as fake as the first.

That's the thing I know little to nothing about the business, never claimed to. I'm someone that's enjoyed the product for what I've seen on television and that's what I feel should come first and foremost. I've used the internet to reach out to other fans with a like mind, but sadly individuals like LaBar and Isenberg while not the most influential of people will unfortunately convince others that a story like this one is true without any real proof of it.

I feel that I as a wrestling fan have a right to take exception to this internet tabloid BS that I often see surround wrestling. I try most of the time to stick to threads that are related to storylines and not rumors but every once in a while I tend to find myself debating and sometimes outright arguing with other posters who put the scandalous side before the artform.

But I'm with you on most of your counterpoints towards me save for the need to bring up the on-air product because I am sure there's plenty of tablod sleaze you can compare this situation to. After all several other posters have done just that.

 

[Rayne]

Again if you want this defense of yours to hold water, go and reference other posts related to LaBar and Isenberg, I don't think I am the first one to make a comment about their "presentation". But for the love of christ referencing how a legend like Bobby Heenan portrayed his character in a juxtaposition with Gorilla Monsoon and comparing that to LaBar and Isenberg's tripe is outright insulting to the legacies of both "The Brain" and "The Gorilla". If you want to really stand your ground on this topic stick to the subject and discuss other wrestling tabloid personalities and not true figures in the business, thank you very much. But yes if we want to continue playing this game, someone like Mark Madden (who's since transitioned from on air wrestling personality to an internet one) would be a far better example to discuss than bringing up the on-air product.

I bring up the example to illustrate to you that kayfaybe and professional 'news reporting' are exactly the same thing. Don't get all pissy that I've had to get overt to the point of ridiculousness to finally get this point across.

That's the thing I know little to nothing about the business, never claimed to. I'm someone that's enjoyed the product for what I've seen on television and that's what I feel should come first and foremost. I've used the internet to reach out to other fans with a like mind, but sadly individuals like LaBar and Isenberg while not the most influential of people will unfortunately convince others that a story like this one is true without any real proof of it.

I feel that I as a wrestling fan have a right to take exception to this internet tabloid BS that I often see surround wrestling. I try most of the time to stick to threads that are related to storylines and not rumors but every once in a while I tend to find myself debating and sometimes outright arguing with other posters who put the scandalous side before the artform.

But I'm with you on most of your counterpoints towards me save for the need to bring up the on-air product because I am sure there's plenty of tablod sleaze you can compare this situation to. After all several other posters have done just that.

And it slips away right at the end of your post. Damnit, I thought I got the point across there.

"Internet Tabloid BS" is part of the business. You have the right to take exception to it all you want, just like you have the right to take exception to wrestlers pulling tights, referees being inattentive, and everything else. It doesn't mean that it makes any sense at all for you to be upset. They aren't trying to report accurately, and getting mad about them is about as effective as being mad at News of the World for publishing information about Bat Boy. Truth and professional wrestling have almost nothing to do with each other besides the name of a character.

Be upset with Labar and Isenberg all you'd like. They don't care if people are upset with them, unless people stop watching their videos. Talk about them more- they love that. Besides ignoring them, the only meaningful way you could express your displeasure about them would be making your own 'news reporting' series that takes away from their page views. Maybe if you did that, you might start getting some comprehension of just what "truth" means to professional wrestling.

 

[UseYourBrain]

Justin and Josh are big boys. If you wanna make a life criticizing and critiquing others for a living and you want to do it on a public forum like the internet, then it's all fair game and you'd better be able to take it as much as you can dish it out.

The whole "Is it a gossip site? or "Is it a news site" thing is slippery.

It's a gossip site that would kill for the credibility and backstage access to be a news site. What little news they get, they'll flaunt. When they don't have real news, they'll use google, twitter, and other wrestling sites to get it.

Let's clarify once more: TWITTER posts make headlines on Wrestlezone.com.
Not just as tidbits, but they even sometimes get their own little pages!

The headline will read: "Hulk Hogan responds to Ultimate Warrior!"

You click it and it's HH saying "I don't like to be a negative person" or something along those lines.

Killer scoop. Killer delivery.

Come on.

Nothing wrong with fan sites. If your site is devoted to wrestling gossip and hearsay, that's FINE. Just don't pretend otherwise.

On the flipside, nobody has much of a right to complain that Wrestlezone isn't properly "verifying their sources". Okay, CNN this site is not. I will agree that if one posts bogus information, they should man up and admit it. Possibly even apologize. However, when you type the words "Wrestlezone.com" into your internet bar... or when you visit the site and see an internet video column with two guys sitting in front of a poorly-lit greenscreen with WWE footage they aren't legally allowed to use playing behind them, the lights should go off in your head and the voice in your brain should be screaming: "NOT A REAL NEWS SITE."

On one hand, I could say that WZ needs to pick it's poison: News or Gossip?

On the other hand, I could easily say "Oh wait. Who cares? Let them do what they want. It's their site."

I choose the former. I also choose to react to their decision accordingly.

I will not come here for my news. Wrestling or otherwise. If you do, you're nuts.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

God damn SirJoseOle sure is fired up over nothing. Get it over vato.

Labar and Isenburg are right. TNA has been fucking their fans over for years now. This isn't news. I applaud them for telling the truth about TNA

This post screams troll...obviously there are others besides myself giving their two cents over this issue and not just me. And yeah that will be the day I just applaud someone over something they're not backing up, get over yourself.

 

[minimoto]

yeah but you're the OP and the guy who started the fuss. I've ordered things from TNA before and gotten the wrong items, damaged items etc...I ordered a Mr. Anderson action figure and they botched the order. I thought it was just ironic postal humor. It wasn't.

 

[WWWYKI777]

Donno whats been said in this topic other than the title and all I have to say is that their TNA bashing annoys me

TNA > WWE imo , easily ever since Bound For Glory last year

 

[nikvoodoo]

Holy hell...after 15 pages of flame wars my mind is numb........and you made me watch a CSR to respond to this too....I hate you OP......

Is CSR WWE Biased? Yes. Is the PWR Show WWE Biased? Yes. Is the Voice of Wrestling WWE Biased? Yes. I will say that PWR, and VOW are to a lesser extent because they do speak more positively of TNA on occasion. To say CSR focuses more on WWE isn't beyond the pale of the normal wrestling industry coverage. WWE is more popular than TNA, so it gets more facetime than TNA does. It's really that simple. It's not a knock on TNA, it's just that's how it goes.

Most wrestling shows are based around Monday nights. Not Thursdays. The only time I've ever heard TNA outstripping WWE in terms of coverage is after the Hardy/Sting PPV "match." So while you can get upset about CSR covering WWE more than TNA, that's just the way it is.

Here's the perfect example: ESPN covers the NFL and NBA more than it does the NHL. Hockey isn't as popular as either of those two sports, so it gets next to no airtime on Sportscenter.

But back to the topic at hand:

I'm curious as to how this post got missed in the fray: http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showpost.php?p=3146618&postcount=26

Okay, I realize that you say that Isenberg and LeBar didn't show proof of the e-mail that they were reading...but I can tell you that I was one that purchased the Victory Road PPV back in March. I am one that was GREATLY disappointed with the ending. I am one that was offered the 6 months of free On-Demand. I saw one month...then it was taken away. So as far as I'm concerned...The CSR guys were justified.

Dude makes the claim that he's had a similar problem. 15 pages later, no one even paid attention to it that I saw. No one responded to it. No one challenged the poster on the veracity of his statement. No one even pointed to it and said "HA! See??? That emailer might be telling the truth!" This argument has twisted and turned away from the supposed "email" that has come so sharply under attack. The focus should have always been that TNA has apparently screwed over some of their customers out of their promised restitution. But instead of focusing on what could be the larger issue, it was deflected and it's instead focused on whether or not Labar and Isenberg are journalists.

Nobody employed by Wrestlezone is a journalist. I promise you, they are not journalists. I don't think they would ever claim to be journalists. Mark Madden might, but that's just a lie. I'd bet you 10 to 1 that all the staff members would claim to be wrestling fans who happen to work on a website dedicated to wrestling. Do some of the staff members of Wrestlezone employ journalistic practices sometimes? Absolutely. I know for a fact that some of the reports given to us as readers get independently verified twice because I know two of the Wrestlezone staff outside of the interwebs.

Do you consider other media outlets dealing with wrestling to be journalists? I'd make the contention that nothing out there covering wrestling could be considered journalism. Dirt sheets aren't journalism and to make the claim that they are really isn't understanding what journalism is. Dirt sheets are rumors. Wrestlezone and other dirt sheet websites are to journalism what wikipedia is to an encyclopedia. Sometimes you get good information. But buyer beware, because you might get led astray sometimes.

Here's my reality when it comes to CSR: I have never liked the show, I think it sucks. I don't like the analysis of either host. If given the option, I would rather hear 4 hours of C-SPAN2 before I'd sit down and watch any installment of CSR. They are trying to hard to be cool with the flame overlays (which blocked their faces for some stupid reason), they don't edit out Mark Madden's heavy breathing which is annoying and somewhat creepy to listen to, and if Labar reads this: Cover up the rope light. Your desk looks like a cheap strip club.

Here's how you fix this: Do what I do. Ignore Labar. Ignore Isenberg. Any link posted by Labar that says "Video" next to it, I don't click on it. Want to know what should be more offensive than this CSR show? Anytime Labar posts a headline claiming something like "WWE Doing Old School Nitro" and you click on it thinking it's a new awesome rumor, but its him answering questions from fan emails. That to me is more misleading than a claim from a fan who says he got screwed by TNA's promise which could very well be true.

 

[Karilas]

...But back to the topic at hand:

I'm curious as to how this post got missed in the fray: http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showpost.php?p=3146618&postcount=26

Dude makes the claim that he's had a similar problem. 15 pages later, no one even paid attention to it that I saw...

I can kinda back this up, the TNA on Demand [formerly the Video Vault] service is downright rotten, not only that, but they've actually managed to reduce the amount of content on there in the last year. They used to have a decent selection of the weekly PPVs, all gone now.

A year or two back I paid for a month, one month only. two months later I noticed they were still taking the monthly fee, then they randomly stopped the service, then I got it back again, more recently I bought a month but just ended up not watching anything because my connection isn't great and the on Demand player doesn't seem to allow you to pre-buffer the video.

Overall a service I wouldn't recommend, unless you've got a decent connection and a mighty desire to see all the TNA DVD releases cheap [that is if you can bring yourself to watch them all in a month].

Back to Chair Shot Reality, regardless of TNA bashing I enjoy CSR. I wouldn't say they were overly biased or against TNA, it's just that whenever TNA gets itself noticed it's always for the wrong reasons. I share a great many of their frustrations with TNA management and I consider myself a TNA fan.

 

[Mr_Ratings]

And people being unable to match up their expectations with reality is one of the oldest stories in history. Fox News says they offer fair and balanced reporting, but the devil is in the details.

THAT'S the point I'm trying to get across to you. You're off in should-land, and I'm trying to explain the way the world actually works.

And my point is that sometimes should, should be a reality. Or at least close to it. But I guess we got two different opinions on how the world works.

I'm gonna give credit where it's due though. Other than the personal jabs ( trust me I can trade them, but I chose not to. Last time I traded them I was banned for a month lol ). I honestly thought you're a intelligent person and I was little entertained by your posts

 

[Rayne]

And my point is that sometimes should, should be a reality. Or at least close to it. But I guess we got two different opinions on how the world works.

What a wonderful world it would be if the world ran on "should". African babies should be able to eat enough to survive, crime victims should get a fast response time from police even if they were in a 'bad neighborhood', Clinton should be able to run for a 3rd term. Absolutely, I'd love a world in which 'should' was a reality.

The only way to make your own personal 'should' happen is to work for it. People have said 'oh, I don't have the time' when I suggest they make their own video show, but if people's time was so precious, they wouldn't be posting here in the first place. Shooting a fifteen-minute YouTube video (and I have no idea what the run time of CSR is, since I know that Labar is simply a bloodsucking leech with an opinion no more valuable than yours or mine) really isn't that hard once you've gotten familiar with your equipment. If you really care about the issue, do something about it.

The internet has way too many people already who want to complain but want someone else to take action.

 

[Mr_Ratings]

What a wonderful world it would be if the world ran on "should". African babies should be able to eat enough to survive, crime victims should get a fast response time from police even if they were in a 'bad neighborhood', Clinton should be able to run for a 3rd term. Absolutely, I'd love a world in which 'should' was a reality.

The only way to make your own personal 'should' happen is to work for it. People have said 'oh, I don't have the time' when I suggest they make their own video show, but if people's time was so precious, they wouldn't be posting here in the first place. Shooting a fifteen-minute YouTube video (and I have no idea what the run time of CSR is, since I know that Labar is simply a bloodsucking leech with an opinion no more valuable than yours or mine) really isn't that hard once you've gotten familiar with your equipment. If you really care about the issue, do something about it.

The internet has way too many people already who want to complain but want someone else to take action.

I didnt say the world runs on should. I said sometimes "should", should happen. And a lot of times should has happened. And the times when "should" doesnt happen is when people, things, or circumstances are too damn stubborn to change or accept change.

 

[Mr_Ratings]

Btw you say that the internet has way too damn many people who want to complain but want someone else to take action. Let me spin it like this. Isenberg and Labar love to complain about TNA and the Indie leagues right? Why dont they go to the Salvation Army, spend 5 dollars on a pair of used tights. Hit up their Itunes and get a MP3 of their theme music. Use their wrestling connections to get wrestling schooling, and start wrestling for the indies to do something about it.

Sounds ridiculous right? Cause they're wrestling critics like us. But since they have a webshow on a major wrestling website, that allows us to be critics of them. A good critics show like, lets say Siskel and Ebert, even on a bad movie they toss in a couple of positive notes. Isenberg and LaBar just trash TNA, even if there was a 30 minute classic between styles and daniels. A good critic wouldve said "TNA was horrible last night other than AJ/Daniels match".

And since they never say anything good about anything other than WWE, then that allows us to be critics of them.

Though I'd toss this in as well. Most TNA Marks love other wrestling organizations. Most WWE marks view other wrestling companies as inferior, and to me theyre bad for the business in general.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

All I am saying is that if you are going to pass yourself off as a journalist you better damned well put your money where your mouth is, like I said to one poster I never watch these two, however their comment about TNA breaking promises got my attention and I had to investigate.

The guys at CSR don't pass their show off as a news/journalist show. They are essentially pundits who are paid to analyze and interpret shows, and give their opinion on them. It sounds like you have a hard time handling the fact that there are some people in the world who have a different opinion than you, considering your little forum-wide temper tantrum consisting of name calling and belittlement.

Your inability to handle dissenting opinions leads me to believe that you're in the wrong place. Go find a forum where anti-TNA banter is forbidden.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

The guys at CSR don't pass their show off as a news/journalist show. They are essentially pundits who are paid to analyze and interpret shows, and give their opinion on them. It sounds like you have a hard time handling the fact that there are some people in the world who have a different opinion than you, considering your little forum-wide temper tantrum consisting of name calling and belittlement.

Your inability to handle dissenting opinions leads me to believe that you're in the wrong place. Go find a forum where anti-TNA banter is forbidden.

If it's only their duty to analyze the wrestling business and its storylines, why break news about "TNA breaking promises", it sounded like reporting to me there wiseguy...

Roche Coach Matzobowel or whatever you're calling yourself these days, don't act like a victim here, judging by your bullshit armchair insight about World Championship Wrestling in the other thread we were debating on you're no one to talk. Again I stand by my argument, it's up to WrestleZone to organize their site better and establish what is news apart from what is editorial you can piss and moan all you want about how I am going to see things, but that's how I am going to see them. You got a personal issue with me and want to keep following me on this forum, take your own advice and find a forum where people will mindlessly take your BS and placate to your whims. Could it be possible that you're the one who's in the wrong place? If I offend you or bother you that much there's a thing called an ignore list, go and use it.

It's funny you were calling me out on immaturity the other day and if you were so mature yourself, and I am someone that offends you with my condescension wouldn't you be the bigger man in this issue by simply just ignoring me?

Yeah I thought so...

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

If it's only their duty to analyze the wrestling business and its storylines, why break news about "TNA breaking promises", it sounded like reporting to me there wiseguy...

Roche Coach Matzobowel or whatever you're calling yourself these days, don't act like a victim here, judging by your bullshit armchair insight about World Championship Wrestling in the other thread we were debating on you're no one to talk. Again I stand by my argument, it's up to WrestleZone to organize their site better and establish what is news apart from what is editorial you can piss and moan all you want about how I am going to see things, but that's how I am going to see them. You got a personal issue with me and want to keep following me on this forum, take your own advice and find a forum where people will mindlessly take your BS and placate to your whims. Could it be possible that you're in the wrong place? If I offend you or bother you that much there's a think called an ignore list, go and use it.

It's funny you were calling me out on immaturity the other day and if you were so mature yourself, and I am someone that offends you with my condescension wouldn't you be the bigger man in this issue by simply just ignoring me?

Yeah I thought so...

You are so overly-aggressive, everything you post borderlines on self-parody.

To be serious for a moment, I just don't understand why you, or anyone else for that matter, gives a shit about how other people feel about the kind of wrestling you like. It makes no difference, but you hold on to this blind loyalty to a certain product that you're willing to vigorously defend it from semi-well known pundits as if they're doing something to harm TNA's product.

I don't even know why this thread exists. It has nothing to do with wrestling. It's just some butthurt keyboard warrior's extreme ranting as if you were personally recruited by TNA to fight some mythical wrestling war for them.

Chill out. Enjoy TNA if you enjoy TNA. Talk about wrestling and debate wrestling. Don't freak out because some criticizes a product you enjoy.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

You are so overly-aggressive, everything you post borderlines on self-parody.

To be serious for a moment, I just don't understand why you, or anyone else for that matter, gives a shit about how other people feel about the kind of wrestling you like. It makes no difference, but you hold on to this blind loyalty to a certain product that you're willing to vigorously defend it from semi-well known pundits as if they're doing something to harm TNA's product.

I don't even know why this thread exists. It has nothing to do with wrestling. It's just some butthurt keyboard warrior's extreme ranting as if you were personally recruited by TNA to fight some mythical wrestling war for them.

Chill out. Enjoy TNA if you enjoy TNA. Talk about wrestling and debate wrestling. Don't freak out because some criticizes a product you enjoy.

What happened was simple and this is my umpteenth time of repeating myself but I'll say it again boss, what happened is LaBar and Isenberg go and say that TNA is breaking promises on their customer service but there is no proof that such a thing happened. I mean I get the point that these folks are trying to get as many clicks as they can, but it's got nothing to do with being a brand loyalist, I'm a wrestling fan first and foremost, I implore you to read my other threads, I have never been known to NOT give my two cents on the world of wrestling, no matter whether it's WWE or TNA.

I'll tell you this man, I was a major WWF fan during the mid 90s right before Austin 3:16 came about and trust me, this was during a time where if you were a fan some people were giving you a WTF, that's how popular that nWo storyline was. Being a WWF fan came with criticisms even though I enjoyed Turner's product too this was even before Hulk Hogan came to WCW. Despite horrible gimmicks like Mantaur, The Godwinns and TL Hopper (WCW had its lameness there too don't get me wrong prior to nWo gimmicks like the Yeti, Loch Ness, Z Gangsta yeah all pretty bad I know), I still was a WWF fan and stood by the product because of guys like Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart who reinvented the title scene upon Hulk Hogan's departure. Trust me, the WWF had its rough spots for a while but I still enjoyed the show. Again I might be coming off harsh and condescending but from the time I watched wrestling as a kid there were all different varieties of wrestling to watch and I watched as much of it as I could. Not to say I didn't have an organization that I liked more than the other but there's no rule saying you couldn't have been both a WWF and WCW fan.

I stand by what I said the first time too, if these two said the same thing about WWE I'd still be wondering what the hell was going on, and yes I understand that you just can't go and give out personal information in regards to this emailer, but hell I look at it like this if one of these companies is doing shitty business, these guys are hooked up with WrestleZone's network and can probably talk to other news networks related to wrestling. I mean we'd still have to take things with a grain of salt but if they present nothing but just talk, I feel the right to reserve suspicion over their claim. If this was an issue related to a storyline in wrestling, I'd say whatevs but the discussion of TNA's business tactics well that's a horse of another color.

Again I know they have no duty per se, but at the same time, if I was in their position and was told information like this, I'd ask this guy to confirm his story and probably advise him to give the heads up to other wrestling news sites. If TNA/Impact Wrestling is screwing something up, I'd sure as hell like to know about it as an occasional customer of theirs. That's why I had the issue, I mean otherwise I don't care what they say about the wrestling business they can analyze whatever and whoever they want, but this particular matter about a customer email implying a delinquency on Impact Wrestling's part has piqued my curiosities and I just want to know if it's true or not. LaBar and Isenberg have enough misleading things they can say to attract viewers without having to resort to saying something like TNA is breaking promises but yet they aren't proving to us that they actually are.

 

[Rayne]

Btw you say that the internet has way too damn many people who want to complain but want someone else to take action. Let me spin it like this. Isenberg and Labar love to complain about TNA and the Indie leagues right? Why dont they go to the Salvation Army, spend 5 dollars on a pair of used tights. Hit up their Itunes and get a MP3 of their theme music. Use their wrestling connections to get wrestling schooling, and start wrestling for the indies to do something about it.

Sounds ridiculous right? Cause they're wrestling critics like us. But since they have a webshow on a major wrestling website, that allows us to be critics of them. A good critics show like, lets say Siskel and Ebert, even on a bad movie they toss in a couple of positive notes. Isenberg and LaBar just trash TNA, even if there was a 30 minute classic between styles and daniels. A good critic wouldve said "TNA was horrible last night other than AJ/Daniels match".

Here we go again with this "real critic" stuff. All they are trying to do is make a buck. That's it. They aren't trying to change the world, all they are trying to do is get you to click one more link on the website and spend a little bit more time with advertising on the side of your screen.

When I say "if you don't like it, do something", what I mean is do something that actually goes in the direction of solving your complaint. Sitting there and bitching on a message board about how you don't like how they do their show isn't going to change anything.

ANYONE can be a critic. All you have to do is whine and complain that you don't like something. It is incredibly easy to be a critic, and thus very few people have any respect for anyone that sits there and criticizes without trying to do anything of your own. Anyone- ANYONE- who makes money off of a critic isn't doing so because people think they're a well balanced, unbiased source of information and review, it's because they word together their opinions in a fashion that other people want to read.

You need to get through this "true critic" business and realize that all CSR is trying to do is make a buck, just like any other critic. Sitting here and whining about what they say merely makes more people aware of both their existence and that people are paying attention to them.

Though I'd toss this in as well. Most TNA Marks love other wrestling organizations. Most WWE marks view other wrestling companies as inferior, and to me theyre bad for the business in general.

Um, cool story, bro?

 

[Mr_Ratings]

Here we go again with this "real critic" stuff. All they are trying to do is make a buck. That's it. They aren't trying to change the world, all they are trying to do is get you to click one more link on the website and spend a little bit more time with advertising on the side of your screen.

When I say "if you don't like it, do something", what I mean is do something that actually goes in the direction of solving your complaint. Sitting there and bitching on a message board about how you don't like how they do their show isn't going to change anything.

ANYONE can be a critic. All you have to do is whine and complain that you don't like something. It is incredibly easy to be a critic, and thus very few people have any respect for anyone that sits there and criticizes without trying to do anything of your own. Anyone- ANYONE- who makes money off of a critic isn't doing so because people think they're a well balanced, unbiased source of information and review, it's because they word together their opinions in a fashion that other people want to read.

You need to get through this "true critic" business and realize that all CSR is trying to do is make a buck, just like any other critic. Sitting here and whining about what they say merely makes more people aware of both their existence and that people are paying attention to them.

Um, cool story, bro?

Theyre complaining about TNA right? Why dont they do something that goes in the direction of solving their complaint? That advice youre trying to give me also applies to them.

 

[Rayne]

Theyre complaining about TNA right? Why dont they do something that goes in the direction of solving their complaint? That advice youre trying to give me also applies to them.

No. You still aren't grasping the point about this.

Lebar and Isenberg are not critics because they want to change professional wrestling. They are critics because they want to make a buck. Stop reading- go back and read the italicized part again. I've said it about twenty times and you aren't grasping the idea. They are doing something to further their agenda. They've started their own internet show about professional wrestling which is featured on a major wrestling dirt sheet. Advertising is sold within and along the sides.

What you aren't getting is that you think they have some kind of agenda to change professional wrestling. Even if they did, forming an internet show and building a watched platform for your views is far more effective than sitting on a message board and saying "I don't like this." We are talking about Labar and Isenberg, which is goal number one for anything entertainment related. On the other hand, no one gives a shit about the opinions you post on this message board, and unless you express them very eloquently, no one is going to. After this thread, no one will remember your complaints.

They are doing something to further their agenda, as much as you might not understand that. They are moving in a positive direction with their goals. You bitching about them on a message board is the equivalent of spinning in circles and falling on your ass.