The 2nd best WWE heel of all time.

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

If you look back at WWE's history, you'll find that unlike WCW, WWE has always been a very face friendly company. Unlike in WCW where heels like Flair and later Hogan as a part of the nWo held the championship belt for long periods, it has been the faces who have mostly dominated the title scene. In the Hogan era, no heel ever won the belt. Well, Savage did but he turned only after he had won the belt. In the New Generation Era again, apart from Yokozuna the belt was mostly held by faces like Bret and Diesel. Again when you talk of the present era, the guys who have held the belt for the longest times have been Cena, Batista, Undertaker and Orton and apart from Orton, the other guys have had their long title reigns as faces.

The only man who can be counted as an exception to the rule is this guy.

​

Yes, Triple H was the guy who broke the norm. In the Attitude Era, he held the title for long periods despite the presence of a huge face like Rock. Later on, he became the leader of Evolution which resulted in another long title reign. Even though, he turned face later on, he is best remembered as a heel because of these two title reigns. He was the most dominant heel in the WWE.

So the question that I want to ask you guys is, who's the next best. I think I have it narrowed down to these four guys.

1. Randy Orton: He was billed as Triple H's successor and has had two long reigns as a heel champion. The only problem is that I feel that he connects to the fans more as a face and will therefore be remembered as a face rather than a heel. A great superstar, no doubt but there is some doubt if he will be remembered as the best heel after Triple H.

2. Edge: This guy had multiple title reigns as a heel and was a very cool heel character, possibly the best one in the last decade. He was the chief antagonist to two of the biggest faces in the company, namely Cena and Undertaker. The only reason why he isn't the clear cut winner is because most of his reigns were short. He wasn't dominant but I guess you could say that it fit his character somewhat as well. He was more of a pain in the ass rather than the franchise player who held the faces down.

3. Yokozuna: The man that killed Hulkamania deserves to get a shot here. Yoko too had a really long reign with the belt and was unstoppable during his run. And he ended Hulkamania too. The cons are that he pretty much became an afterthought once Bret beat him. Now, to many people that is not a huge deal but it's enough to plant the seed of doubt in my mind.

4. Brock-Lesnar: He's the dark horse here for absolutely annihilating Cena in their encounters to the point that a Cena's victory over Lesnar would come as a surprise now. The man also ended Undertaker's streak. The thing that makes Brock a less than worthy successor is the fact that you don't know how long he'll be in the company.

So, fellow WrestleZonians, who do you think is worthy of being called the next best after The Game? In my mind, it's a toss-up between Edge and Orton but I would love to have your opinion on this.

 

[Ex-Degenerate]

Are you just talking WWE Champ? one of the best heels ever was the Honky Tonk Man, who held the IC belt in the late 80's for over 14 months, which is still think stands as the longest running IC champ. A lot of his wins were count out and DQ's to preserve his heel image while holding the title.

He also needs to be in the Hall of Fame/

 

[Creepy Old Man]

Triple H the best heel ever? Can't agree at all. I stopped watching in the early 2000s because he bored me silly. He could wrestle, but his matches were rarely anything special. He could talk, but his promos were tedious. I didn't like Triple H, but in the wrong way. Judging by the fact that SmackDown actually became the more popular show when Trips was at the helm of Raw, I don't believe I'm alone.

So the best heel ever would be Piper, DiBiase or Jake (can't believe these men were omitted from the poll options). I'll go with Piper, because he was the perfect foil for Hogan at the time wrestling exploded, and I don't believe Hogan would have been so beloved without Piper, the unrelenting, aggravating, loud-mouthed jerk.

If I had to pick one the four guys you've named (all of whom I prefer to Triple H), it would be Yokozuna. His mic deficiencies were alleviated by the supposed language barrier, and he was gargantuan and looked like he could kill you in a second - I genuinely feared for Bret Hart's life when they were facing off. Lesnar would be a close second, but his abysmal mic work hampers his ability to terrify.

 

[The Boss]

Are you just talking WWE Champ? one of the best heels ever was the Honky Tonk Man, who held the IC belt in the late 80's for over 14 months, which is still think stands as the longest running IC champ. A lot of his wins were count out and DQ's to preserve his heel image while holding the title.

He also needs to be in the Hall of Fame/

I agree with the Honky Tonk Man being a bigger heel. But not just for the title, but also because nobody liked him. He was a true heel. Triple H would get mixed reactions depending upon his opponent and even had a bit of a following.

As far as Triple H and the title goes, remember that for the first time ever the WWF/E had two World champions and could therefore give one of them to a heel. Would he have been as successful had there only been one championship? Doubtful.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Utter crap that HHH is the best heel of all time... He wants to be really badly, but he isn't.

Why?

Because his heel personal has always relied on power that was not his own...being married to the bosses daughter or "stealing her" from Test... Even his face runs, like DX, he was usurping Shawn rather than earning any actual credibility or power for himself...even his first IC run, yep, he had Mr. Perfect there to turn for him...

Trips has never been THAT heel, where what he does is SO evil or bad or crazy that people hate hate him, he just usurps some power from somewhere, rubs it in everyone's faces ad nauseum with 20 minute promos and then eventually loses it....rinse, repeat...

The scope of the thread is the 2nd best heel, which means I have to break it cos I have to re-define #1. THEN we can talk about #2.

What makes the "best heel of all time"? Is it the guy who was the most dastardly in deed or in spirit? Is it the guy you love to hate or the one you hate that you love? Is it the guy who makes you sick to your stomach that he is there or the one you secretly dig on for being "bad-ass".

I can tell you who #2 is immediately but to define who is #1?

It has to be the guy who people would pay to see battered into oblivion, not cos he's the bosses son in law or the boss or even just an arrogant prick or a commie/foreginer... Trips never "got" to the crowd that way, he pushes a different button for smart fans than he does the general fans. It's easy to hate an ethnic heel if your American... it's not going to wash as the top 3 heels... The guys who genuinely pushed THAT button were:-

Ric Flair, Rick Rude, Ted DiBiase, Hulk Hogan, Vince McMahon, The Rock, Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels.

Your top 2 are from these and this is why:-

Flair was a "aspirational" champ... you hated Flair because he "had it all", would cheat to keep/win and would lose SO rarely as a heel that you would rue missing it. Flair was the ultimate "overaged frat boy", living the dream and winning to boot. He didn't need the bosses daughter, he could have YOUR bosses daughter AND your daughter chasing him round the venue he named when he was in town... that kind of heat you cannot buy.

Rick Rude, the same to an extent, here was a guy who was hated because a) he was better looking than you, b) your woman DID want him ahead of you and would dump you in a second, c) was mocking you for it and was right and d) if you look twice would kick the living shit out of you. Heenan was the icing, go back and look at Rude at his best, the Cheryl Roberts skit, facing Sting... he was THAT good, you knew it, and you hated him for it.

Shawn and Bret are 2 sides of the coin... Shawn was at his best as that obnoxious, sophomoric heel... he got the girls, was young enough to enjoy it AND be that damn good that he would inflame everyone around him... Bret the opposite, when he finally turned, it was more than a "Canada" thing, it was a line in the sand for people, you wanted to be like Shawn or like Bret... right and wrong, light or dark, good or bad... the lines were blurred as to which was which, but you made a choice...

Ted and Vince push arguably the worst button, the "considerably richer than you" button. I link them together because Vince famously sold Ted on the gimmick as "If I wrestled, this would be my gimmick..." and Mr. McMahon was VERY similar although power was substituted for money.... DiBiase was a machine in the ring, that made it worse... he could be convincing against a Hogan or Warrior... Power wouldn't work on it's own against him... Vince drove people nuts... cos he was a "old man" looking better than them, more ripped, getting to win the Rumble/Title, fuck with their heroes? Why? Cos he had the money and power to do so... Vince was FAR better at it than Trips... When Trips messes with a Daniel Bryan or a Cena etc... it comes across as jealously... When Vince was fucking with Austin, it was for no real reason...even the "corporate" business was tenuous... you just knew this was a guy who "just could" and got off on that...


Hogan's turn was close to the top 3... but ultimately his creative control ruined it. With proper control and Vince McMahon as a filter, that would have made double what the NWO did in terms of cash and impact... but he was given the keys to the kingdom and he came across as Nero learning to fiddle, right before someone tossed a match... at the time, it seemed dynamite... it was, but not in a good way.

That leaves number one...

The Rock...

There is not a better heel in the history of the business... A guy who started SO vanilla/bland and turned it on the fans themselves, blamed them and got so big he could take up half an hour of RAW with a "Rock Concert" or batter your then hero senseless with 10 chairshots in a row unscripted... at his heel peak he OWNED the WWF/E completely. Now everyone cheers him automatically but I still feel his last great WWE run will be as a heel... as what Hogan could have been in the NWO... today, Dwayne panders... but he turned once on the fans for "die Rocky die" he can again... probably right around the time he is releasing Shazam as the villain... but seriously go back and look.

I missed some names out... Austin and Pillman were both the same... Pillman was SO close but the injury killed it for him, Austin took up the mantle but the reality the moment he uttered 3:16 he was face, however he was booked... guys like Angle came close but "American Hero" always shines through... Jericho in 2008 was SOOO close to being there, the work was amazing... but reading his latest book, it kinda shows that he was in that space for real...he was a bit of a dick... and to me it takes the edge off and moves it to Shawn and Trips territory, where being a dick for real ruins the heel character.

2nd Best? As to the original thread...

On balance, I gotta go with Rude... Flair spent as much time face as he did heel as did everyone else on the list other than DiBiase...

Rude wasn't quite the best ever, though he was for a 2 year period... but go back and look at his actual work during those feuds with Jake, Warrior, Steamboat and Sting... people HATED him... he genuinely was "better than them" in every way, called them on it, just like the Rock later did... and could beat your heroes when you thought they were invincible... just like Rock...

 

[#tamale]

Utter crap that HHH is the best heel of all time... He wants to be really badly, but he isn't.

Why?

Because his heel personal has always relied on power that was not his own...being married to the bosses daughter or "stealing her" from Test... Even his face runs, like DX, he was usurping Shawn rather than earning any actual credibility or power for himself...even his first IC run, yep, he had Mr. Perfect there to turn for him...

Trips has never been THAT heel, where what he does is SO evil or bad or crazy that people hate hate him, he just usurps some power from somewhere, rubs it in everyone's faces ad nauseum with 20 minute promos and then eventually loses it....rinse, repeat...

So hiring another wrestler to run over Austin, kidnapping Vince's daughter and marrying her, stabbing his friends in the back, beating the fuck out of Flair, using younger stars to maintain his status as the man, trying to end the YES movement, handcuffing Daniel Bryan to beat the ever living hell out of him, trying to end HBK's career, ending Foley's career, cheating a million times whenever he faced The Rock, teaming with Austin to beat down The Rock, nearly breaking JR's arm, manipulating his way to get title shot after title shot...

Yeah, he never did anything so evil or crazy that fans hated him

Ric Flair

Yawn...

Rick Rude

Didn't have nearly the success HHH had.

Ted DiBiase

Agreed.

Hulk Hogan

His match quality during his heel run really brings him down.

Vince McMahon

Agreed.

Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels.

Nowhere close to what HHH has done.

That leaves number one...

The Rock...

There is not a better heel in the history of the business... A guy who started SO vanilla/bland and turned it on the fans themselves, blamed them and got so big he could take up half an hour of RAW with a "Rock Concert" or batter your then hero senseless with 10 chairshots in a row unscripted... at his heel peak he OWNED the WWF/E completely. Now everyone cheers him automatically but I still feel his last great WWE run will be as a heel... as what Hogan could have been in the NWO... today, Dwayne panders... but he turned once on the fans for "die Rocky die" he can again... probably right around the time he is releasing Shazam as the villain... but seriously go back and look.

The Rock had a great run as Hollywood Rock, but that lasted only a few months. His initial heel run couldn't touch HHH's.

Jericho in 2008 was SOOO close to being there, the work was amazing... but reading his latest book, it kinda shows that he was in that space for real...he was a bit of a dick... and to me it takes the edge off and moves it to Shawn and Trips territory, where being a dick for real ruins the heel character.

How does being a dick in real life affect the heel character? That makes no sense.

HHH had/has the combination of being a wrestler you hate, and being so good in the ring that you have to respect his skill. He was a truly evil bastard. Is he number one though? No, pre-HHH, it will always be Ted Dibiase. Post-HHH; it's Jericho.

1. Dibiase
2. HHH
3. Jericho

If Lesnar holds this WWE World Heavyweight Championship for nearly 2 years, I would place him at number one.

 

[ABMorales787]

You're shitting me, right? You truly believe Triple H is a better villain than "The Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase? Triple H could be around 50 more years as a heel, he still wouldn't be in the same ball park of villainy. Ted did every villainous thing imaginable and was entertaining every single time. Triple H half the time is more boring than a Khali promo.

Triple H is #2 at best and in more ways than one.

 

[S.J. Maximus]

Unfortunately for the OP this thread has become a "Is HHH the best heel in WWE history thread", when he simply was trying to figure out who we think the next best heel is.

For those of you who feel like Triple H is not the best heel of all-time, please erase the nostalgia from your mind. Midcarders like Rick Rude and Honky Tonk Man simply cannot be valid comparisons for this topic. HHH dominated the WWF title scene for 6 straight years and people have the nerve to say a man who floated in the Intercontinental title scene (granted it meant much more back then) was more menacing than him. I've heard "the brand extension", "married into power", and "boring".

Brand Extension - Took place in 2002, but he won his first WWF title in 1999 and was a top draw throughout 1999-2002, and became undisputed champion earlier in the year BEFORE the brand extension. You sir couldn't be more wrong, it is quite clear that Triple H was extremely successful before the extension and would've still been had it never happened.

Marriage - same deal, he married Steph in 2003 and he was a top guy before that. Did she help him win King of the Ring 1997 when she was 20? Did she tell Vince to put him in DX? When HBK did get hurt did she book HHH as the new dominant leader? This attack on Triple H makes me the most angry because it is the least valid but the most prevalent.

Boring - That is your opinion and you're entitled to it, but please don't make it seem that because YOU were bored, that the pro wrestling fanbase was bored. From as early as 1998 Triple H was consistently one of the most over wrestlers in the business, which is something that still remains unchanged today in 2014. Can't be too boring when you're consistently putting on 5 star matches, leading the two best factions in WWE history, and constantly getting pop after pop.

Now that that's all said and done, I'd say this list is pretty shaky. I do believe that despite his non-existent title wins the Million Dollar Man deserves a spot on this list, as does Roddy Piper. Without them, Hogan and Savage wouldn't have been as over as faces as they were. DiBiase and Piper were both so menacing, so seemingly evil, they were clearly the two best heels of the 80's. JBL is definitely the biggest snub in your list, he completely terrorized SmackDown and became its longest reigning WWE Champion. Not a single person in the arena cheered for him when he came on the screen (which is something Orton, Edge, and current heels have difficulty mastering). Lastly, Chris Jericho had two long runs as a top WWE heel. The first being his legendary first ever Undisputed Title reign, which resulted in him main-eventing one of the biggest WrestleMania's in history. And his run from 2008-2010, which also led to a WrestleMania world title match (at WM26) and another classic feud with HBK in 2008.

But my answer, finally, is actually Edge. Randy Orton is my favorite superstar of the current generation but there is no denying that Edge got the most consistent heat of any heel after Triple H turned face in 2006. It definitely didn't hurt that his perfect foil was the company's top face John Cena, but he proved to successfully antagonize any top face they threw at him, such as Undertaker, Batista, Jeff Hardy, and Triple H. His run led him to fight for the world title in every WM from WrestleMania 24 till his retirement. Many title reigns and good booking solidified his place in my view as the 2nd best heel after Triple H, but probably the third best heel of all time.

1. Triple H
2. Ted DiBiase
3. Edge

 

[MrTDG]

Unfortunately for the OP this thread has become a "Is HHH the best heel in WWE history thread", when he simply was trying to figure out who we think the next best heel is.

For those of you who feel like Triple H is not the best heel of all-time, please erase the nostalgia from your mind. Midcarders like Rick Rude and Honky Tonk Man simply cannot be valid comparisons for this topic. HHH dominated the WWF title scene for 6 straight years and people have the nerve to say a man who floated in the Intercontinental title scene (granted it meant much more back then) was more menacing than him. I've heard "the brand extension", "married into power", and "boring".

Brand Extension - Took place in 2002, but he won his first WWF title in 1999 and was a top draw throughout 1999-2002, and became undisputed champion earlier in the year BEFORE the brand extension. You sir couldn't be more wrong, it is quite clear that Triple H was extremely successful before the extension and would've still been had it never happened.

Marriage - same deal, he married Steph in 2003 and he was a top guy before that. Did she help him win King of the Ring 1997 when she was 20? Did she tell Vince to put him in DX? When HBK did get hurt did she book HHH as the new dominant leader? This attack on Triple H makes me the most angry because it is the least valid but the most prevalent.

Boring - That is your opinion and you're entitled to it, but please don't make it seem that because YOU were bored, that the pro wrestling fanbase was bored. From as early as 1998 Triple H was consistently one of the most over wrestlers in the business, which is something that still remains unchanged today in 2014. Can't be too boring when you're consistently putting on 5 star matches, leading the two best factions in WWE history, and constantly getting pop after pop.

Now that that's all said and done, I'd say this list is pretty shaky. I do believe that despite his non-existent title wins the Million Dollar Man deserves a spot on this list, as does Roddy Piper. Without them, Hogan and Savage wouldn't have been as over as faces as they were. DiBiase and Piper were both so menacing, so seemingly evil, they were clearly the two best heels of the 80's. JBL is definitely the biggest snub in your list, he completely terrorized SmackDown and became its longest reigning WWE Champion. Not a single person in the arena cheered for him when he came on the screen (which is something Orton, Edge, and current heels have difficulty mastering). Lastly, Chris Jericho had two long runs as a top WWE heel. The first being his legendary first ever Undisputed Title reign, which resulted in him main-eventing one of the biggest WrestleMania's in history. And his run from 2008-2010, which also led to a WrestleMania world title match (at WM26) and another classic feud with HBK in 2008.

But my answer, finally, is actually Edge. Randy Orton is my favorite superstar of the current generation but there is no denying that Edge got the most consistent heat of any heel after Triple H turned face in 2006. It definitely didn't hurt that his perfect foil was the company's top face John Cena, but he proved to successfully antagonize any top face they threw at him, such as Undertaker, Batista, Jeff Hardy, and Triple H. His run led him to fight for the world title in every WM from WrestleMania 24 till his retirement. Many title reigns and good booking solidified his place in my view as the 2nd best heel after Triple H, but probably the third best heel of all time.

1. Triple H
2. Ted DiBiase
3. Edge

What hurts Ted DiBiase is that they pretty much had him in the mid-card after Summer Slam 1988. But for that first year or so, he was THE HEEL of all heels. The Million Dollar Man really had no redeeming qualities. There was no way on earth you could cheer him, especially within the first year of that gimmick. He truly was a despicable man. I won't hold the mid-card status against him however because that simply was the WWF formula at the time. The WWF/WWWF was built on having dominant babyface runs who were fed a steady diet of a variety of heels during their championship run. I don't think the WWF's way of doing business should be held against Ted DiBiase. We also must keep in mind, the WWF did intend on putting the title of DiBiase, but as we know, plans changed.

With that said, the evolution (no pun intended) or Triple H from the fun loving leader of DX to the cerebral assassin was great. He was a guy who would turn on his best friends, stab anyone in the back, have a man run over, scheme, plot, and manipulate to get to the top and do anything he could to maintain his power. And then as time went on, he used others to help keep him there. He was like a wrestling version of JR Ewing. I thought the whole angle of Triple H drugging Stephanie and ultimately turning her against her father was one of the best things ever done. Let's not base our present opinions of Triple H cloud his work from 1999 to 2001. The run from 2002 until 2006 was good, but wasn't as great in my eyes because of what he did to the top face talent at the time (Rob Van Dam, Booker T), as well as bad programs with Kevin Nash (even if Nash were 100% healthy, this was a bad idea and did not help Triple H in any way). But all in all, Triple H was a terrible man with no redeemable qualities.

Edge gets an honorable mention, but in some ways, I look at much of what he did as Triple H lite. But he was definitely a great heel from 2005 to 2010.

Rick Rude was a great one, but the WWF dropped the ball with him badly in 1990 by not making him a serious challenger for the Ultimate Warrior's title and ultimately having him win it from him.

I'd go with Ted DiBiase as my number 2, although an easy case can be made for him as number 1 and Triple H at two. Drugging a woman is pretty despicable, but DiBiase actually believed he could own people. Think about that for a second.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

You're shitting me, right? You truly believe Triple H is a better villain than "The Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase? Triple H could be around 50 more years as a heel, he still wouldn't be in the same ball park of villainy. Ted did every villainous thing imaginable and was entertaining every single time. Triple H half the time is more boring than a Khali promo.

Triple H is #2 at best and in more ways than one.

The thing is, I'm looking at this more from a kayfabe perspective than just a character based one. DiBiase was possibly the best heel character ever but that did not translate into success kayfabe wise that is comparable to Triple H's.

Still, I think that I did make an error by leaving him, Piper and JBL off my list. After all, Dibiase did get the title off Hogan and that was quite a kayfabe achievement. JBL was basically Honky Tonky Man at the main event level but faded into midcard obscurity after his title run. Still, I guess if I put Yokozuna in there, I could have put JBL as well. Piper is actually the weakest of the lot kayfabe wise because kayfabe wise it was more of Piper vs Celebrities rather than Piper vs Hogan. Still, he can get a mention for the feud drawing so much.

But I would still say that putting longevity and kayfabe success into the equation, HHH is better than the three. I will not put Jake Roberts or Honky Tonky Man in the list as despite being great characters, they were midcarders and therefore cannot be considered for the spot.

Also, I won't put Flair and Hogan because I've clearly mentioned that I'm talking about the WWF/E and they weren't heels at the top of the card for long runs in WWE. Their best work as heels came in WCW and that is not what I'm looking for.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

Triple H is a top 5 heel of all time.

He belongs in the same discussion as DiBiase, Piper, Rude, Flair and Vince McMahon. I personally believe he is better than Jericho, Michaels or Edge/Hogan/Rock whoever else you want to put in this discussion.

There are very few people who everything about them is designed for you to hate them. There's a reason why Triple H generally failed as a babyface. No matter how hard he works or how talented he is, there are way more ways for you to dislike him than to like him. People don't want to give him the credit he deserves because like 'Taker said, he will always have an asterisk against his name because of his marriage to Steph. But that's selling the man short. He gets nuclear heat. He's the best heel in the company at this current moment, and he has been since he turned heel at last SummerSlam, despite not being an active wrestler.

I don't know who is #1 or who is #2. That's all up for debate and subjectivity, but Triple H is an excellent heel. Everything about him is designed for you to hate him. The fact that so many of you dislike him so much that you don't even want to give him enough respect to put him on this list is proof of how great of a heel he is. You hate him, no matter what the reason. He makes you want to hate him. Everyone here loves watching HHH lose, myself included.

He belongs in the top 5, he belongs in this discussion.

 

[yourdamnluck]

Lots of people rival trips as the top heel.
First vince no explanation needed.....
second shawn both on and offstage.
others austin edge jerico jbl...The great one...

 

[jholcomb22]

After reading your few posts OP, it seems to me that you are making the case that Triple H is the most accomplished heel of all time in the WWE. If this is your argument, I can support it. If not, my apologies.

If this is the case, I think number 2 is Edge, hands down. Almost exclusively heel, Edge dominated the tag division and the solo division before being forced to retire. He made faces so much more likable and he never left the main event once he entered it. Whether he was trading titles back and forth with Cena, or teaming with Orton for Rated RKO, Edge was able to use his heel persona to make the most of his career, achievement wise.

 

[dd23beatlesfan1]

I think what the poster is trying to get to as far as which heels to include in the discussion, are those that became champion and dominated the WWE main event scene.

Most of the best heels in the history of the WWE never won the championship. As was stated, WWE has always been a babyface company. All the dominant champions have been babyfaces, and it's been that way since Bruno put the WWE on the map, all the way to John Cena in the modern era. Because of that, most of the best heels never won the title, or had brief reigns with the title.

When you really sit and think about it, in the entire history of WWE, Triple H, Randy Orton, Yokozuna, Edge, and Brock Lesnar were the only heels to really have significant runs with the title, along with Superstar Billy Graham who was not mentioned in the poll or nominees.

But your typical candidates for best heel in WWE history, Ted Dibiase, Curt Hennig, Rick Rude, Jake Roberts, Roddy Piper, Vince McMahon, etc, none of those guys ever had runs with the WWF title, and Vince only for a week.

So I'm presuming the OP is going for the "most dominant heel in WWE history" rather than the best, or that's what he should be going for, because Triple H is obviously not the best heel in WWE history. He's easily in the top 5, because he was so dominant and was by far the most successful heel.

I would agree that Ted Dibiase, Vince McMahon, Roddy Piper, and possibly Rick Rude were better heels than Triple H, but none of them were as successful when it came to championships as Triple H was. All of them also weren't consistent main eventers, as Piper was only a main eventer really from 1984-1986. After that he was mostly an upper mid-card babyface for the rest of his run. Dibiase was only really in the main event from 1987-1988, and after that he was in the mid-card for most of his remaining years (except for a series of house show matches against Warrior in 1990). Rick Rude, same boat, IC champion, only a few main event matches for the World Title. Curt Hennig, even less experience in the main event. Jake Roberts? Never main evented as a babyface, let alone heel.

So I see where the OP is coming from.


So looking at it from that perspective, I can agree with Triple H being the most dominant, successful heel in WWE history, though not the best. So for the second most dominant, I would probably go with either Edge or Billy Graham (who should've been one of the options). Edge was the best character of the ones considered, and is third on the list of # of reigns with the WWE Championship (only behind Triple H and John Cena). He's definitely up there. Billy Graham was such a pioneer and ahead of his time, and he was the first really successful heel in the company's history. Until Yokozuna came along.

But to go back to who was truly the best heel in WWE history (not WCW/NWA, ECW, TNA, etc.), my top 10 would probably look like this.....

10. Superstar Billy Graham
9. Paul Heyman
8. Curt Hennig
7. Rick Rude
6. Bobby Heenan
5. Jake Roberts (1991-1992 period)
4. Triple H
3. Roddy Piper (1984-1986 period)
2. Vince McMahon
1 Ted Dibiase

Runners-Up: Randy Orton, Brock Lesnar, The Iron Sheik, Freddie Blassie, Edge, The Rock, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart (1997 period), The Honky Tonk Man, Greg Valentine

Not a definite top 10 list, but it would look something like that.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

This topic is a dumpster fire of crap.

I mean... HHH the BEST heel of all time? Seriously?

1. Ric Flair
2. Ted Dibiase
3. The Rock
4. Harley Race
5. Hollywood Hulk Hogan
6. Tully Blanchard
7. HBK
8. Honky Tonk Man
9. Kevin Sullivan
10. Arn Anderson

I'd put HHH at 11... maybe. HHH is severely overrated legacy wise. His in-ring work is impeccable, but his legacy's very bloated due to the way he was booked in the mid 2000's.

But IMO, Ric Flair's simply the best heel of all time. This shouldn't be really close, either. He was the ultimate antagonist and many wanted to watch Flair get his ass kicked and paid good money and drove good distances to see it.

I won't waste anymore time on this thread though... it's just not worth it.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

This topic is a dumpster fire of crap.

Well, you may think of the topic as crap but you missed out on two things I mentioned in my OP.

1. This is WWF/E specific. Most of the performers you have mentioned made their careers in WCW.

2. I am looking at Kayfabe success.

I've included the second point because otherwise, best, is a pretty subjective term. It boils down more to preference than facts. You could say Dibiase was better than Perfect because of their character and I could say otherwise and we would end up fighting all day.

Similarly, you could say that Dibiase is better than HHH but I can say that HHH was a main event heel for a much longer time than Dibiase who became an upper midcarder after his feud with Hogan and Savage.

However, I do feel that I made a mistake by leaving Dibiase and Piper out because they did feud with the biggest faces of their times and Dibiase even managed to get the title off Hogan, which can be considered a kayfabe success. But I'd still say that HHH is the better keeping longevity and kayfabe success in mind.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

OK. So this is strictly a WWE(F) based list, and is to be determined solely by kayfabe?

Alright... let's start by looking at some of the greatest kayfabe accomplishments by a heel.

- Iron Sheik winning the WWF title in the most dominating fashion possible, by beating Bob Backlund so badly that his manager was forced to throw in the towel. The Sheik followed that up with a dominant run as half of the WWF Tag Team Champions
- Superstar Billy Graham defeating Bruno in his house (MSG), and having the most dominant run as champion any heel had for the first 30 years of the WWF's existence. He only lost the title because of an incompetent referee not noticing his foot on the ropes, and when he came back a few years later, immediately stepped in as the top challenger again.
- Ted DiBiase orchestrating the end of Hulk Hogan's legendary run as champion
- Ric Flair defeating the entire WWF in one night to become champion, as well as becoming the first 2 time heel WWF champion in history
- Triple H becoming the first heel in history to win the final match at Wrestlemania
- Brock Lesner ending the Undertakers streak

But probably the greatest heel accomplishment of all time...

Ivan Koloff ending the never again seen, historic reign of Bruno Sammartino, at MSG

Kayfabe wise, there's never been a greater single accomplishment than Uncle Ivan's.

Who was the best... and who was second best all time though?

Triple H is up there. After Graham and Yokozuna, he was the third heel champion to enjoy a long run at the top as a heel. Graham did it in an age where this was unheard of. Yokozuna... at a time when it was almost unfathomable. Triple H? Was at the beginning of a period where it was more common for a heel to be on top because the WWF had eliminated all their competition, and the best heels in the world weren't going to the NWA/WCW to win anymore (heel champions dominated the NWA/WCW, in kayfabe this would be because they had the best heels).

Triple H had a very dominant run on top of the WWE, but he loses points for all the times he'd flip flop to being a face. He just never was as committed to being a heel as some of his predecessors. In contrast, guys like Randy Orton and Edge were very committed to being the bad guys, and both experienced phenomenal success in the WWE as heels. Brock Lesner was such a dominant bad guy, that he had to leave the WWE for years because it was too easy for him to conquer that world.

Where do I rank them in kayfabe?

5 - Randy Orton
4 - Triple H
3 - Edge
2 - Brock Lesner
1 - Superstar Billy Graham

The Superstar wins because his run between Bruno and Backlund was completely unprecedented, and it took crooked WWWF officials to beat him for the title. He showed the world what happened when one of the best heels in the world came to the WWWF, and it took almost 2 decades for someone else to come along and even just equal his success... and that was a guy that in the end, couldn't even beat someone half his size!

Gotta love kayfabe

 

[relentless1]

lol, you must be kidding, nothing about HHH suggests he's even in the top 5 best heels of all time let alone the greatest, he's got to go through Vince, Eric, Hollywood, Dibiase and Slick Ric to get there, arguably the Rock as well. Give your head a shake bud.

As far as the real list:

1. Ric Flair

2.Hollywood Hogan

3. Vince McMahon

Based on longevity, presence, impact, championships and epic matches

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Well, you may think of the topic as crap but you missed out on two things I mentioned in my OP.

1. This is WWF/E specific. Most of the performers you have mentioned made their careers in WCW.

WWE specific? Pretty much everyone on my list worked heel in WWE aside from Hogan, but HHH is vastly overrated by you, which doesn't change my point.

2. I am looking at Kayfabe success.

???

I've included the second point because otherwise, best, is a pretty subjective term. It boils down more to preference than facts. You could say Dibiase was better than Perfect because of their character and I could say otherwise and we would end up fighting all day.

The point is you're saying that this is a battle for 2nd place because you believe HHH is the best heel of all time in WWE Kayfabe history. I'm saying that's stupid, because there are a lot of better heels than HHH out there, even in the WWE.

Similarly, you could say that Dibiase is better than HHH but I can say that HHH was a main event heel for a much longer time than Dibiase who became an upper midcarder after his feud with Hogan and Savage.

Ted Dibiase never worked as a face in the WWE.. he was ALWAYS heel... which goes to show you how breaking the rule of 'The GOAT's have to be versatile as babyface and heel' was easy for Dibiase, because he didn't have to be a face. His character was never suited for being a good guy. HHH worked more 'main event' matches, but that doesn't make him better than, say, Jake 'The Snake' Roberts or Roddy Piper.

However, I do feel that I made a mistake by leaving Dibiase and Piper out because they did feud with the biggest faces of their times and Dibiase even managed to get the title off Hogan, which can be considered a kayfabe success. But I'd still say that HHH is the better keeping longevity and kayfabe success in mind

Nope. Piper main evented the first Wrestlemania with Hogan purely because he was the best heel in the promotion at the time, and he kept being booked as the foil to Hogan because of his heel work. Sure HHH won more belts and has more accolades, but being better's subjective, and to me, the subject is the impact those folks made on our industry. No one mimics HHH, but HHH mimicked Harley Race, Ric Flair, and others as paying homage to their work by doing similar tactics.

Original is always better and folks like Dibiase, Piper, and Flair set a standard for heel work. HHH's merely following in their footsteps.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

WWE specific? Pretty much everyone on my list worked heel in WWE aside from Hogan, but HHH is vastly overrated by you, which doesn't change my point.

That may be true but the major part of their heel legacies were made in other companies. For example Anderson and Blanchard were a tag team in WWF. Is that enough, in your opinion to supercede Triple H? Even Flair worked for just a year and a half at the main event level. He returned later but was mostly HHH's lackey. Flair is better known for his exploits in WCW and if we are only considering his work in the WWF/E, he'll never be in running for the best heel of all time. Niether would Tully, Anderson or Hogan.

In short, I'm only looking at the stuff that happened on WWF/E programming.

And Kevin Sullivan never wrestled in WWF as far as I know. And really, Kevin Sullivan? The guy who was the leader of the Dungeon of Doom, otherwise known as one of the worst main event level storylines ever. How is he a better heel than Triple H anyway?

The point is you're saying that this is a battle for 2nd place because you believe HHH is the best heel of all time in WWE Kayfabe history. I'm saying that's stupid, because there are a lot of better heels than HHH out there, even in the WWE.



Ted Dibiase never worked as a face in the WWE.. he was ALWAYS heel... which goes to show you how breaking the rule of 'The GOAT's have to be versatile as babyface and heel' was easy for Dibiase, because he didn't have to be a face. His character was never suited for being a good guy. HHH worked more 'main event' matches, but that doesn't make him better than, say, Jake 'The Snake' Roberts or Roddy Piper.

Kayfabe wise, HHH has won a truckload of championships and has beaten every major face that has wrestled in the company in his time. He has beaten the likes of Austin clean. And you're right, he has wrestled in more main event matches. If that does not determine kayfabe success, then I don't know what does.

Nope. Piper main evented the first Wrestlemania with Hogan purely because he was the best heel in the promotion at the time, and he kept being booked as the foil to Hogan because of his heel work. Sure HHH won more belts and has more accolades, but being better's subjective, and to me, the subject is the impact those folks made on our industry. No one mimics HHH, but HHH mimicked Harley Race, Ric Flair, and others as paying homage to their work by doing similar tactics.

Original is always better and folks like Dibiase, Piper, and Flair set a standard for heel work. HHH's merely following in their footsteps.

I understand your argument but I do feel that you are underselling him. For all Piper and Dibiase did, they fell down the card after their feuds with Hogan while HHH has main evented against Rock/ Austin as well as the top draws of this generation in Orton and Cena. Mind you, I understand that that was also because of the booking of those times, but all the same it is a point for HHH.

Furthermore, I don't think that just because HHH drew inspiration from a lot of characters does not mean that he isn't on their level. First does not always implicitly mean best and HHH has incorporated a lot of other aspects into his character as well. I'd say that he is the best exponent of the franchise player gimmick.

Also, I think Orton and Edge have been inspired by HHH to an extent whenever they've been heels.