Superstar Billy Graham- Right or Wrong?

[xavyer]

Plain and simple, IT'S AN ACT!!! I don't know why Billy Graham is bitchin about, not even Bruno has made a coment, a heel is suppose to be a heel, for example, if an actor in a movie plays the role of a murderer, does this mean that he does it in real life?? CM Punk did what he was suppose to do, put himself over, he's not the first heel to do it, and thrust me, he won't be the last.....

 

[amodernphoenix]

This thread has gone exactly where I hoped it would when I started it... PASSIONATE responses, pro and con. That's what the WWE is missing today, passion. We watch them, CM Punk included, and it seems like they just are going through the movements. I honestly don't know what the answer is on how to fix it or the cause. Maybe it's become overly scripted and too regimented to schedule. I don't know.

In my honest opinion, Punk's promo on Monday was mediocre at best and did nothing to further his rivalry with the Rock. The Rock's promo was even worse and only served to date him. However, he looks in phenomenal shape, so that will go a long way.

There's been a lot of valid points in this thread, some things that are completely false, but lots of passion. I love it and wish we could see more of it in the product.

 

[PagingMr.ass]

Personally, I think he's right. It was disrespectful for Punk to call out past wrestlers and say they only wrestled once a month, etc. For one thing, he was wrong. They wrestled all over the tri-state area and did MANY shows at Fernwood and the Allentown Ag Hall. Secondly, he's right about the WWE begging Bruno to be in the Hall of Fame and then then burying him in the hot spot of their flagship show.

For those of you that think Punk doesn't use writers, you're marks. EVERY current WWE star uses writers, including HHH and the Undertaker. Granted, they have the ability to veto writers, but their lines are planned and scripted before they go out there. With the upper-echelon guys, they're given bullet points to use, the rest get straight-up scripts. And for those who believe "A heel is supposed to do everything he can to get heat", well, you're flat-out wrong. A heel insults and bad mouths the good guys, but his ultimate goal is to indirectly make his opponent look strong. That goes both ways. You mock their style, you mock what they say and you mock their win-loss record, you NEVER mock their work ethic or drawing power. Breaking that fourth wall is a cheap way to get heat and it's done by guys who are unable to do it the way every other heal can. Compare Punk's words with those of great heels like the Undertaker and the Rock himself, back when they were heels. Go further back and listen to what Macho Man and Slaughter said. Neither broke the 4th wall, yet Slaughter needed a police escort to the arenas (so did Billy Graham, by the way).

Finally, I'd say that those of you who are making comments about how Billy Graham "knows nothing about the business" and "got trolled" and "doesn't realize it's a work" are giving all displaying your ignorance about the product and the history. Do you really know who Superstar Billy Graham is? Do you know that he was WWE's original "gimmick character" and that he too, was a heel? There are many in the industry who feel the same way about WWE becoming a glorified talk show and he echoed the feelings of many WWE Legends. He also made a point, which many of you missed, that WWE likely threw that line in there as a jab at Bruno for declining the Hall over and over.

The business was very different back then, than it is today and Punk would have been eaten alive. There was a hell of a lot more shooting and actual wrestling in one match, then we see in 3 hours of RAW. People got their receipts over and over again. Aside from that, the matches were routinely 45 minutes to over an hour. You think Punk could endure that night after night? Half his current move set wouldn't have been used back then, because moves like his were considered too "phony" and they still followed the kayfabe policy, like I wish today's wrestlers did.

One last point- I do agree that the Rock was bested by CM Punk on the microphone, but not by denigrating legends or calling himself God. He bested him by not backing down, laughing in Rock's face and telling him point blank, "I'm going to kick your ass." Of course, in a real fight, the Rock would destroy Punk. It's about three times his size and knows how to hook, as does every Samoan wrestler. It's part of their heritage and I've watched the training first-hand.

Punk is a heel, delivering a heel promo, thats all it was. Heels talk trash to turn the audience against them, its what they do, it's what Billy Graham did through out most of his career. This doesn't really merit five paragraphs of analysis.

 

[SaveUsCMPunk]

Billy Graham seems every bit as bitter as Bruno Sammartino is towards the wrestling product of today and recent years. Graham and OP should both take a chill pill and realize that the wrestling industry isn't "real serious business." It's changed since the days of Sammartino, Graham, Backlund, Morales, etc. I respect what he's done in the business as I do Bruno Sammartino, but geez....let it go. CM Punk is a heel. CM Punk is portraying a character. CM Punk's character is supposed to be extremely arrogant and naturally he'll say stuff like that to get you to boo him. He most likely respects the hell out of Graham and Sammartino IRL and Graham is just overreacting.

Chris Jericho's recent tweet about the situation pretty much sums up my feelings about the situation. BTW, Chris Jericho is awesome.

 

[DirtyD79]

I fail to see just what Billy Graham's problem is. Seriously has he forgotten the way heels are supposed to act? Heels are supposed to be disrespectful and put down others, it's why you want to see them get beat. If a heel thinks he or she's the best in the world you can bet your ass they're gonna put down others who came before them. CM Punk is hardly the first wrestler to diss the "Legends". Hell, he was hardly the first one to do it during that episode. Wade Barrett was dissing Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat earlier calling him old has been. You don't see him getting all butthurt. You know why? Because Steamboat gets it, he isn't a delusional old crank who still thinks it's 1985.

 

[VencomHardcore]

Mighty NorCal and Jack-Hammer nailed it. The most desparate fact fact about Graham's rant is that he never said that wrestlers like Sammartino weren't wrestling a match once a month. All he said was how great the guys of his generation were, that they were wrestling icons and such. It felt like he was begging Punk to stop telling the truth.

Who knows? Maybe that was Vince's big FU to Sammartino for not accepting the HOF Induction all those years.

The bottom line is this: CM Punk did what he does best. The guy is a natural heel. He can shoot and moan all he wants, if that is what it takes to get heat. Hogan also was a chapion for 4 years. How many matches did he wrestle during that period?

Punk also said something else. These guys never went through a table, never got thrown of a ladder and never worked for 365 straight days per year. Something that every wrestler currently employed by the WWE does.

There's a generation gap between these guys. The one will never understand the logic of the other. It's nonsense really. Graham needs to get his act together. This isn't 1975 anymore. Wrestling has evolved. It's not real but I think it's way more demanding than it was those days.

Worst things have been said by WWE wrestlers. CM Punk rejecting that line would be straight stupid. Orton's "Eddie's down there, in Hell!" was far more worse than someone talking truth about some 70 year old man who still thinks that people give a damn about him. I'm sorry, but that's the truth.

The only thing Graham accomplished was to lower his self-image and nothing more. WWE couldn't care less. Punk couldn't care less. I couldn't care less.

Correction ! Billy Graham wrestled many hard core matches during his day. His fued with Dusty Rhodes was both bloody and gruesome. In addition, Graham and others were working various territories at the same time. Most stars were on the road at least 303 days per year. The difference is that many had to drive themselves.

And some of the African American wrestlers had it harder because many weren't allowed at many restaurants or public places so they had to pack lunches and eat in cars. And you don't want to get into them working sundown towns.

Wrestlers today have it much easier than Graham's Generation. Don't get it twisted thinking its harder. It really isn't.

 

[CaptainZaltan]

Punk also compared himself to God in that same promo. Where's the outrage over that? His CHARACTER is that of a megalomaniac; did anybody think he was going to spend 45 minutes being humble and kissing the asses of anyone who has held the title longer than himself? What about this particular promo warrants such close scrutiny? It's sure as hell not the most controversial thing a heel has ever said, or even that Punk himself has said.

Really, who cares who had it tougher between Punk or Sammartino? Really, who cares if Punk actually respects Sammartino? It's not the point. Punk did his job and stayed in character, that's it. If Billy Graham wants to take offense to that, let him.

 

[willross]

I 100% despise Billy Graham. He is so friggin butt hurt for no reason. He takes money from WWE to go into the HOF, release a book, a DVD, and then sues them after and complains about how horrible of a place they are.

Maybe ol' crippy boy should shut his mouth and stop being a mark like Jericho said.

I hope that statement by Punk was all a big set-up for Bruno to come next week, having been in on this the whole time, as the 1st HOF inductee of the year and shit-can Punk. Just so Billy Graham feels like the stupid, old, crippy boy mark that he is

 

[TheHorndogSays]

I'm honestly surprised with how much heat that one line received. I don't believe that was Punk/WWE's intent when it comes to the line. Punk believes that he is the best EVER, not just the best of the modern era. He spits in the face of tradition and legends (Flair, Foley). He was trying to show why he believes he was the best ever his reign should go down as the greatest in history. His reign has very much become a part of his gimmick and I think it works effectively for his "Best in the world" moniker.

Now onto the question at hand, Did WWE make a mistake in making that line when they are fighting so hard to get Bruno into their hall. I feel Punk had to come up with a way to counter the length as there is honestly no way he holds the title for 7 more years. If you notice Punk NEVER said "Bruno sucks", all he said was "I would have been champion for 30 years in Bruno's era". How is that ANY different than when one wrestler tells another wrestler "I'm better than you, I will beat you"? When the majority of wrestling fans think of LONG title reigns they think of Bruno so Punk/WWE made a logical choice in referring to him.

In my opinion this is just a combination of an old wrestler looking for a few more minutes of publicity and taking his friends side and Bruno not being a fan of WWEs current product so they aren't going to like ANYTHING WWE does or says even if WWE honestly did nothing wrong.

 

[d_henderson1810]

I fail to see just what Billy Graham's problem is. Seriously has he forgotten the way heels are supposed to act? Heels are supposed to be disrespectful and put down others, it's why you want to see them get beat. If a heel thinks he or she's the best in the world you can bet your ass they're gonna put down others who came before them. CM Punk is hardly the first wrestler to diss the "Legends". Hell, he was hardly the first one to do it during that episode. Wade Barrett was dissing Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat earlier calling him old has been. You don't see him getting all butthurt. You know why? Because Steamboat gets it, he isn't a delusional old crank who still thinks it's 1985.

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You and a few people here make a very good point about Punk.

I was watching my brother's DVD of "Macho Man" Randy Savage. It made me remember that, back then, even though Savage was an awesome wrestler, he was booed. Why? Because he ACTED like a heel. He manhandled Elizabeth, he beat up on George "The Animal" Steele, he cheated to win the IC Title, and then cheated to keep it. But mostly because he "damaged" Ricky "The Steamboat"'s neck with a ring-bell. This incident was done so well, Steamboat sold it so well, that Savage was booed and jeered, and I imagine that many were happy to finally see the popular Steamboat win the IC Title off Savage at WM3. So, you had a character PLAY a heel.

Huk Hogan once said in an interview that , when he turned heel in WCW, he started getting death threats and needed security to escort him from the building. Now I know Hogan exaggerates, but I can imagine that people hated Hogan for turning heel at the time.

I couldn't stand the Honky Tonk Man for many years, because he was an annoying jerk who beat my favourite, Ricky Steamboat, for the IC Title. Someone pointed out that the fact that I was still so annoyed years later showed how effective Honky Tonk's "heel heat" was.

There are many examples. Andre The Giant got hated by tearing off Hogan's cross necklace on "Piper's Pit". Roddy Piper was hated for smashing Jimmy Snuka with a coconut. Even Vince McMahon got himself hated for screwing Bret Hart, and then trying to screw "Stone Cold" Steve Austin.

These guys knew how to be heel, to get heat. Today, many fans cheer heels and boo faces. So, to get a heel to be hated is quite a task. I think that Punk is simply trying to get EVERYONE to boo him, like in the old days. If he has to ramp things up by dissing legends to get truly hated, then so be it.

Most wrestling fans respect many of the wrestlers I mentioned above. They only hated them because they ACTED like jerks onscreen. Punk is trying to get the type of heat "Hollywood" Hogan, Andre, Piper, Honky Tonk, Savage, McMahon and others have garnered in the past. If "disrespecting" a few sacred cows is the only way, then it needs to be done.

I will be glad if there is more of this (going back to the day where the face was beloved, and the heel was truly hated). I can't stand Punk at the moment, he is such a jerk. But, all that means is, that he is doing his job, and doing it well.

 

[c13vyper]

This promo designed to get cheap heat brought to you by the same company that made such other cheap heat promos as:
-Mocking Jerry Lawlers real life heart attack
- Randy Orton claiming that the late Eddie Guerrero went to Hell
- HHH "Molesting Katie Vick"

Superstar Billy Graham, more like Stupid Moron Billy Graham

 

[thebarber]

He is wrong. Bruno Sammartino doesnt even consider the curent product top be the same thing he did 40 odd years ago. Billy Graham lays the boot into WWE every oppoertunity he gets. Vince paid for his surgeries in 1987, and kept him on and gave him commentary work to keep him with the company. He was fucken hopeless and still doing drugs so Vince sacked him. So Billy Graham then supports the cops and tries to have Vince done for distributing steroids and accusing Vince of homosexual activity towards ring crew. Hell when Graham dropped the belt in 1978 to Backlund, as planned a whole 10 months earlier, instead of being thankful for having a long reign as a heel and making hundreds of thousands of dollars. he bites the hand that fed him, changed his gimmick, took his ball and sulked off into drug land. CM Punk said what he was scripted to say, and good for him. Vince will stick it to Sammartino whenever he gets the chance because he keeps refusing to go into the HOF. Superstar Billy Graham is one of the biggest pieces of shit the industry ever saw.

 

[Skinsley]

When I saw what Billy Graham had said, I facepalmed myself.

What a fucking idiot.
What Jericho said in reply was SPOT ON. Its HEEL tactics. Also unlikely to be from Creative, but from Punks own mind. A setup for Ric Flair to interupt apparently...and a perfectly put promo if that is the case.
If John Cena came out as a face and claimed that he was Better than Samartino, then maybe that would indeed be an insult. But Punks entire character as a HEEL suggest that everything he says is supposed to be Bias, exagerated or lies. So what is the problem?

Superstar Billy Bollocks.

 

[OneLoneSapper]

Punk and Vince took a shot at Bruno. That's it. You can argue that they did the same thing to Steamboat but The Dragon was there and no doubt knew about it. The truth is that wrestlers and promoters disrespect others all the time and this is no different. And when they get a bit of backlash over their statement they use the same argument, "It's a work". They say it to the point that it is hard to tell what is real to them and what isn't.
Kevin Nash is the king of the "It's a work" defense. Not long ago he made some remarks about Eddie Guerrero and when people called him out on it he said It's just a work. He was distancing himself from his own comment by saying that it was meant to piss people off. Now Jericho, who last time I checked wasn't currently working for WWE and would have no idea what was going to happen is saying it's a work.
People have wanted Bruno to go into the Hall of Fame for years now, but after Monday night it's doubtful he will ever want anything to do with Vince. Any shot of that happening, which were slim to begin with, was taken away with that one comment. But don't take it so hard. It's just a work

 

[LODemolition]

Graham made himself look like a completely illiterate toolbag who doesn't understand the difference between a work and real life. Either he's senile or still doped up from all his surgeries.

Also, why is he blaming the writers? Graham should do his research before running off at the mouth. Punk said himself on his DVD that he rips up anything the writers hand him right in front of their faces.

 

[Spinebreaker]

Shocking. Utterly shocking.

A wrestler, currently employed as a villain said some nasty things about someone. Good God. WWE should be taken off the air for such behaviour.

Seriously though, why on Earth does Billy Graham decide he needs to be involved at all? Sammartino was mentioned, if he wants to respond, then I'm sure he can. I'm sure the Wrestling Community would be interested in hearing from him. Billy Graham, there's no money involved for you here. No-one to sue or try to ruin because of your personal grudge. Go Away.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Punk and Vince took a shot at Bruno. That's it. You can argue that they did the same thing to Steamboat but The Dragon was there and no doubt knew about it. The truth is that wrestlers and promoters disrespect others all the time and this is no different. And when they get a bit of backlash over their statement they use the same argument, "It's a work". They say it to the point that it is hard to tell what is real to them and what isn't.
Kevin Nash is the king of the "It's a work" defense. Not long ago he made some remarks about Eddie Guerrero and when people called him out on it he said It's just a work. He was distancing himself from his own comment by saying that it was meant to piss people off. Now Jericho, who last time I checked wasn't currently working for WWE and would have no idea what was going to happen is saying it's a work.
People have wanted Bruno to go into the Hall of Fame for years now, but after Monday night it's doubtful he will ever want anything to do with Vince. Any shot of that happening, which were slim to begin with, was taken away with that one comment. But don't take it so hard. It's just a work

In Steamboat's case it was more a way to introduce his son, which is no doubt where they will end up going with this Barrett feud. Ritchie v Wade at Mania for the IC would be a nice match.

On reflection I was maybe a little harsh on my previous post on Bruno, he did give a lot in his career but at the end of the day he was the guy who threw a fit when they asked him to commentate rather than be "the man". It's not easy to be at the top and then be at the bottom and see yourself become a shell, but ultimately Bruno had his time and his era ended the moment Hogan pinned Sheik. Lambasting the world cos it changes is pointless, it'll change anyway and you'll just look bitter, even if you ain't.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

He's wrong.

It's kayfabe. Punk is putting himself over like any heel does. It's meant to draw heat.

It looks like Billy Graham has just gotten sucked in worse than an 11 year old fan.

 

[Hordriss]

It was just a heat-seeking exercise, and should be taken as such. Sure the words themselves were disrespectful, but that was the point. Punk is a heel, and heels are assholes.

Let's face it, if it's not off limits to make light of Jerry Lawler's near fatal heart attack, then what of a misguided cheapshot at the expense of generations past?

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Who gives a shit. Punk was actually right. How many times do you hear old timers bitching about new guys. Go back and count how often those guys bumped. True, the ring was harder, but these guys bump soooo much and from so many different angles.

I don't have the credibility to back this up, but Jim Cornett does. He once said "in the old days, people thought you were killing each other when you really weren't, now guys are killing each other and no one believes it".

 

[waylonmercy]

I think CM Punk is stretching facts to be a heel. WWE could kiss Bruno's ass on TV for years and he wouldn't join the HOF. Bruno comes off as very selfish. If he wasn't selfish he should suck up his pride and join the WWE HOF out of appreciation for the diehard North Eastern Americans who considered Bruno family to them and had a deep connection with him and idolized him. These people are starting to die off and he's still stuck in 1980's with bitterness.

I am very sure CM Punk is just going for heat with regards to his character and that is all. He is really not trying to insult Bruno and I am sure he thinks the world of him.

 

[essdee19]

WRONG!!!.. does he not remember he was a heel also who cut promos. Reguardless if that was how punk felt or not he does know that wrestling is not real. This man is such a jacklye and hyde with wrestling and feels he has to mention him self while taking up for bruno smh

 

[Fated_Sin]

I get some of the Graham's moaning on it but let's face facts. It's been 30 years "Superstar" and the heels of this era don't pull punches because some guy stuck in the past doesn't like it. Punk is one of the best heels in wrestling (yes I am a little biased having seen the guy work numerous times in other promotions and getting to know him back when myspace was still relevant yeah just dated myself there but moving on.) as well as one of the best talkers in a long time. And can someone please get some new material for the Rock cause the same song and dance won't cut it promo wise against CM Punk hell it wasn't even good using the nostalgia with Cena (who I wished had just gone back to thuganomics for life then and ditched the SuperCena routine...) it was cool back when it was fresh and new but now it's just...man I hate to say it but it's worse than the continuation of the What chants. (sorry for getting off topic but it's just been frustrating me lately )

 

[ratedxaussie]

This has got to be the most ignorant thread I've ever witnessed on a wrestling forum.

Honestly, I just wouldn't be suprised if when Edge cut that promo on Cena about "hating his hat and his shirt and stuff" if someone made a thread saying how Edge was wrong and he shouldn't hate his hat and stuff...

This is exactly why we don't have an attitude era anymore, because people can't handle it. Why is it that when CM Punk cuts a promo basically saying how when Vince dies the WWE will be better off, but Triple H/Steph will run it into the ground is amazing because thats what people want to hear, yet when he cuts a promo on something they don't like, suddenly its not okay?

Perfect example. Everyone bitched about Jerry's heart attack, why isn't Jerry bitching? Jerry had the heart attack, not any of us, and he certainly doesn't need people on the internet to defend him or anything. If Jerry was okay with that, which he likely was as he knew the heat it'd get (As with Cole talking about his mother dying), then why is everyone else bitching?

Rock calls Cena a fruity pebble. We know he isn't, why don't we make any threads saying how wrong the rock is? Because its a promo. This is why Punk is such a great heel, he is getting you so invested in the promo and making you hate what he has said so much that it drives you to go make a thread on a wrestling forum.

Honestly, who cares what he said about Bruno or other legends. The crowd obviously would realize Bruno was a big deal in the day for holding the title so long despite Punk saying it was never defended. (he wouldn't namedrop some nobody). People are just too sensitive these days, especially with things that have absolutely nothing to do with them. The majority of us werent watching wrestling in those days or were old enough to really know what those times were like for them wrestlers/people in general, yet we are getting so defensive about the whole thing? In the end, what does it prove arguing about how many days he wrestled, when this was twenty-plus years ago?