"Super(enter WWE wrestler's name here)" Rant

[D-Man]

"Super Cena"
"Super Orton"

I've seen these nicknames being thrown around for months on end. Once a top babyface or heel is known as a "comeback kid" during matches and comes out with a win on most occasions, this is the moniker they earn from the IWC. It's annoying, to say the least.

Want to know whats even more annoying? The same idiots that abuse and don this nickname to a WWE superstar are the same ones that creamed all over themselves whenever a match like this occurred in the late 1990's:


The even more amazing thing about the ones that use the "Super______" nickname is that they are the same ones who've embraced it with another wrestler from the past. Someone who did it so many times that the set of comeback moves was given its own name... the Hulk-Up. That's right; Hulk Hogan was the KING of the no-sell. No matter how much he would get his ass whipped for 15-20 minutes straight during some of his most famous encounters, this guy would always do his infamous Hulk-up and would have his hand raised at the end of most of his matches. And the crowd ate it up.

All of this comes down to preference. If you like the wrestler, you don't care if they Hulk-up during their matches. If you don't like the wrestler, you call them names and bitch about them like little children when they Hulk-up. Maybe you should all remind yourselves of who started that trend (Hulk Hogan), who followed in his footsteps in later years (Goldberg, The Rock, Steve Austin, Triple H, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels), and who you watch now that you show no respect for (Cena, Orton). Now, out of these guys, who do you respect and who don't you respect? Yup, exactly.

This formula has been a staple in the professional wrestling industry since the early 1980's and I highly doubt its going to change anytime soon. If you want to hate someone for Hulking Up, hate on Vince McMahon and the WWE machine. Hate on Vince Russo. Hate on Jeff Jarrett. Hell, hate on Paul Heyman. But stop being annoying and nicknaming the wrestlers that you are all going to worship once their careers begin to run out.

So, to close my rant, I'll say this - To all of you who use the monikers of "Super Cena" and "Super Orton", you're all a bunch of hypocrites. Is that statement abrasive? Probably... but it's also true.

 

[harrythem]

I think, when it comes to the late 90s WWF at least, the internet not being as big as it is now helped mute the amount of bitching about top guys and what they did/didn't do with their opponents.

A big problem with the Cena's and Orton's is that, especially now, apart from each other (and part timers like Triple H/Undertaker) there's not anybody who's really on their level (and they sure as hell over played that feud) where as, in the late 90s, you had Austin and (full-time) Undertaker who could play off each other, then added the Rock, Mick Foley and Triple H to the main event mix and there was enough "supers" to keep them involved with each other without having them going up against someone that's below them (in public perception at least).

Over in WCW you had Goldberg, Nash, Hogan, Sting and a few others who also managed to keep things fresh.

So, to me, I think the "supers" would get a lot more love from everyone if there was more people on their level today...which can be done if creative actually made the effort to see through a push for somebody.

 

[InuJoshua]

I know what you mean. It really is annoying when these complaints about "Super" wrestlers are constantly spewed when it's been going on for years.

To me, it seems that there are two types of people who use it. People who know nothing about how wrestling has traditionally been booked and people who have irrational hate for a particular superstar, but still want to sound "smart."

Sadly, this rant will fall on deaf ears. Like I said, most of the hate is irrational, so no matter how much history or proof that you put in front of them, they're going to continue to hate and pine for the "good old days," that amazingly, weren't too different from today. The major difference now is that the curtain has been pulled back so the people who believe that Cena is really fighting are few and far between compared to those who thought Hogan was a real life American hero.

Just my 2 cents

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

awesome post. People who bitch about it today only bitch because they let nostalgia get the best of them. Cena and Orton are both a lot more subtle with their selling than people give them credit for. If you want to see a "Super (insert name)" wrestler no sell during a match. Watch Super Dragon. I fucking hate that guy. Headdroppy no selling bullshit. The epitome of shit indy spot monkeys.

 

[H33LTurn]

I dont know, I think theres a difference between fans just bitching about someone having a winning streak for the hell of it or them complaining about someone like Cena who's winning hurts the product. Cena winning so much hurts the credibility of the matches hes in. I will admitt they've toned it down with him as of late, but if this we're one or two years ago I wouldnt blame anyone for calling him Super Cena.

I dont think Orton is anywhere close to being like Cena but the fact that hes the only competitor the WWE seems to believe in on the SD roster makes it more likely that he might become like him.

 

[InuJoshua]

nahhh super cena still sucks. its not the hulking up, its his lack of a move set. and the fact that he's in the title picture every single month , and if not its something bigger, yep " bigger" than the title picture. (nexus)

Watch Cena's match against Ziggler a few months back. Or Rey last month. Or any of his matches with Punk. You can't say he "lacks a move set." Wait.. let me guess. They carried him, right?

And of course he's going to be in the title picture or something bigger. Just like Austin was. Just like Rock was. Hell, Hogan got an impromptu title match at Wrestlemania. So that's hardly anything new with Cena.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

awesome post. People who bitch about it today only bitch because they let nostalgia get the best of them. Cena and Orton are both a lot more subtle with their selling than people give them credit for. If you want to see a "Super (insert name)" wrestler no sell during a match. Watch Super Dragon. I fucking hate that guy. Headdroppy no selling bullshit. The epitome of shit indy spot monkeys.

You bitch about everything "today", like, anytime I see a post of yours, you bitch.

Good post D-Man, and yes, it's peoples natural instinct in this day to complain about anything they don't like, not getting what it builds to, what it's aiming for, what it can open up and why it's done. Complaining because somebody doesn't wrestle the way they want, or do this the correct way which is annoying, and most modern day wrestling fans show so much respect for one way of doing something, whether it be like your example about how people never ragged on Hogan, Austin, Hart etc, etc for doing the "comeback kid" routine but yet because Randy Orton does it or John Cena does it, it has to be wrong.

The routine works in several different fashions anyway. Look at John Cena trying to land the Five Knuckle Shuffle on CM Punk, Punk kicked him in the head and gained a pop for it, because it was unexpected and when WWE allow whoever to counter the comeback it gets a good pay-off. It really is just a combonation of moves. Hart had it, Cena has it and Orton has it and to be honest, in-terms of Orton it brings the crowd out of their seats.

Super is something which can be very loosely labeled on someone. And one of your final lines in the second last paragraph is so correct.

But stop being annoying and nicknaming the wrestlers that you are all going to worship once their careers begin to run out.

Amount of people that do this is seriously annoying. On WrestleClique right before I was unmodded, a dude who was always bagging on Edge, posted a thread about Edge should come back for another match and began saying how Edge's career isn't done. He even tried to label Edge as "SuperEdge" because Edge beat Del Rio.

When Cena retires, people that hate him, like not boo or anything, but genuinely act like Cena threatened their lives almost will be begging on their wrestling forum for Cena to return and have one last final match. One more promo. One more this and one more that, and I'm pretty sure It'll be the same with Orton. Maybe instead of having to be like that then, appreciated what they do now, because definitely in Orton's case he's coming into his in-ring prime.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

You bitch about everything "today", like, anytime I see a post of yours, you bitch.

Good post D-Man, and yes, it's peoples natural instinct in this day to complain about anything they don't like, not getting what it builds to, what it's aiming for, what it can open up and why it's done. Complaining because somebody doesn't wrestle the way they want, or do this the correct way which is annoying, and most modern day wrestling fans show so much respect for one way of doing something, whether it be like your example about how people never ragged on Hogan, Austin, Hart etc, etc for doing the "comeback kid" routine but yet because Randy Orton does it or John Cena does it, it has to be wrong.

The routine works in several different fashions anyway. Look at John Cena trying to land the Five Knuckle Shuffle on CM Punk, Punk kicked him in the head and gained a pop for it, because it was unexpected and when WWE allow whoever to counter the comeback it gets a good pay-off. It really is just a combonation of moves. Hart had it, Cena has it and Orton has it and to be honest, in-terms of Orton it brings the crowd out of their seats.

Super is something which can be very loosely labeled on someone. And one of your final lines in the second last paragraph is so correct.



Amount of people that do this is seriously annoying. On WrestleClique right before I was unmodded, a dude who was always bagging on Edge, posted a thread about Edge should come back for another match and began saying how Edge's career isn't done. He even tried to label Edge as "SuperEdge" because Edge beat Del Rio.

When Cena retires, people that hate him, like not boo or anything, but genuinely act like Cena threatened their lives almost will be begging on their wrestling forum for Cena to return and have one last final match. One more promo. One more this and one more that, and I'm pretty sure It'll be the same with Orton. Maybe instead of having to be like that then, appreciated what they do now, because definitely in Orton's case he's coming into his in-ring prime.

I bitch about IWC stupidity and hypocrisy and a total lack of trying to see things another way. I actually do watch a ton of different promotions. I like to enjoy pro wrestling and appreciate the art of it and the art of working an audience. Don't know what you meant about "today" because I typically defend today's stars when everyone else is shitting on them.

The rest of your post was good. I think the part about Punk was especially potent. If Cena or whoever doesn't have a "routine" then when it's countered, it doesn't matter. It just looks like everything else. Or like Orton vs Ziggler where he had to modify the rope DDT to do it quicker because Ziggler countered it earlier. It showed that Orton respects Ziggler's skill.

 

[DirtyJosé]

awesome post. People who bitch about it today only bitch because they let nostalgia get the best of them.

Or because they are legitimately tired of seeing the Cena act. Has nothing to do with nostalgia, and nothing to do with being "another smarky IWC" fan. I'm not declaring myself on either side of this line, but I can certainly understand the frustration of seeing Cena rise to the top again and again.

That's the problem with half of you "IWC" types (which, for the record, is EVERYONE who posts on the internet about wrestling in any kind of community like this). Half of them are the kind of whiners that D-Man laments about in his post. The other half as assholes like you who only whine about them. Whereas the former's smarkdom may have blinded them to being entertained in today's format, the latter (again, assholes like you) feel that anyone who isn't totally entertained by whatever they are force fed and who aren't totally satisfied with the way the system works and who dare to enjoy heels as well as faces are some sort of marginalized smark army out to destroy wrestling. Get the fuck over yourself, chump.

Cena and Orton are both a lot more subtle with their selling than people give them credit for. If you want to see a "Super (insert name)" wrestler no sell during a match. Watch Super Dragon. I fucking hate that guy. Headdroppy no selling bullshit. The epitome of shit indy spot monkeys.

You see? Know what this smells like? SMARK! SMARK! WE'VE GOT A SMARK ON OUR HANDS HERE! SMAAAAARK!

I dont know, I think theres a difference between fans just bitching about someone having a winning streak for the hell of it or them complaining about someone like Cena who's winning hurts the product.

To counter my own point above, how does Cena hurt the product?

Cena winning so much hurts the credibility of the matches hes in. I will admitt they've toned it down with him as of late, but if this we're one or two years ago I wouldnt blame anyone for calling him Super Cena.

Seeing Cena go over may get boring, but I fail to see how it hurts credibility anywhere, especially in an industry where this kind of booking is not only regular but is quite the norm when it comes to the top babyface. So, again, use your brain and give me some reasons as to why and how this hurts the product at all.

I dont think Orton is anywhere close to being like Cena but the fact that hes the only competitor the WWE seems to believe in on the SD roster makes it more likely that he might become like him.

I'm sorry, I was too busy marveling at how neat it is of WWE to have faith in guys like Christian, Mark Henry, and Sheamus to give them decent-to-great PPV matches and proper build up for said matches to bother listening to your irrelevant point about Orton being the only one they believe in. Try again, chump.

nahhh super cena still sucks. its not the hulking up, its his lack of a move set. and the fact that he's in the title picture every single month , and if not its something bigger, yep " bigger" than the title picture. (nexus)

All of a sudden anyone without 30 moves and 4 finishers is lacking in a moveset? Yes, he has his 5-move finishing set, and he's hardly the only guy in history to have something like that. Hart and Rock had their finishing lines too. Hogan had his. It's not unusual, and it's not unprecedented.

p.s- becky is probably your most intimidating member of your white trash nexus. you hate when people say "super" anything.... i hate it when a bunch of jersey trash writes the word N***A in type 50 font on their signatures

This is gonna end well.

 

[King_of_Swing1520]

cena is not a bad wrestler. he's just been booked in the same spot for years now. he beat swagger and ziggler 2 on 1 clean. no other wrestler in the wwe is booked like that. he straight squashed barrett on smackdwon last week. why not give barrett that win? even a cheap win? it wouldnt make cena look bad at all. he's been in the title picture for years now. when was the last time he wasnt in a ppv main event? he is a very good werstler, hes just become stale.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Or because they are legitimately tired of seeing the Cena act. Has nothing to do with nostalgia, and nothing to do with being "another smarky IWC" fan. I'm not declaring myself on either side of this line, but I can certainly understand the frustration of seeing Cena rise to the top again and again.

That's the problem with half of you "IWC" types (which, for the record, is EVERYONE who posts on the internet about wrestling in any kind of community like this). Half of them are the kind of whiners that D-Man laments about in his post. The other half as assholes like you who only whine about them. Whereas the former's smarkdom may have blinded them to being entertained in today's format, the latter (again, assholes like you) feel that anyone who isn't totally entertained by whatever they are force fed and who aren't totally satisfied with the way the system works and who dare to enjoy heels as well as faces are some sort of marginalized smark army out to destroy wrestling. Get the fuck over yourself, chump.



You see? Know what this smells like? SMARK! SMARK! WE'VE GOT A SMARK ON OUR HANDS HERE! SMAAAAARK!



To counter my own point above, how does Cena hurt the product?



Seeing Cena go over may get boring, but I fail to see how it hurts credibility anywhere, especially in an industry where this kind of booking is not only regular but is quite the norm when it comes to the top babyface. So, again, use your brain and give me some reasons as to why and how this hurts the product at all.



I'm sorry, I was too busy marveling at how neat it is of WWE to have faith in guys like Christian, Mark Henry, and Sheamus to give them decent-to-great PPV matches and proper build up for said matches to bother listening to your irrelevant point about Orton being the only one they believe in. Try again, chump.



All of a sudden anyone without 30 moves and 4 finishers is lacking in a moveset? Yes, he has his 5-move finishing set, and he's hardly the only guy in history to have something like that. Hart and Rock had their finishing lines too. Hogan had his. It's not unusual, and it's not unprecedented.



This is gonna end well.

If people were legitimately tired of seeing Cena, he wouldn't get the loudest reactions, he wouldn't be mentioned all the time on youtube vids and threads not about him, WWE shows with him on the card wouldn't draw more. Either that or the people who are legit tired of him aren't a big enough group to matter.

I'm not saying it's wrong to not be entertained, I'm saying it's stupid to bitch about the WWE doing what any other business would do. Should Coke stop promoting Coke just because you're tired of it? If you don't like it, don't watch. I hate Jersey Shore, I don't watch it, and I only talk about it when using this example.

Sure, I'm a smark. I don't like people who don't sell. I appreciate guys who can sell. Call me a smark. I'd rather be called a smark than a moves mark.

I enjoyed the rest of your post.

 

[DirtyJosé]

If people were legitimately tired of seeing Cena, he wouldn't get the loudest reactions,

Which AT LEAST HALF is made up of boos and jeers.

he wouldn't be mentioned all the time on youtube vids and threads not about him,

I think Matt Hardy gets mentioned more on YouTube and maybe even on threads, so yeah...

WWE shows with him on the card wouldn't draw more.

When was the last time there was a WWE PPV card which didn't feature Cena? Do you have a basis of comparison here? Any numbers to back you up? Or are you just talking shit?

Either that or the people who are legit tired of him aren't a big enough group to matter.

But the point wasn't that they numbered enough to matter, simply that they exist, that they are noticeable in the online community and on the shows themselves (where often at many arenas Cena is booed out of the house).

I'm not saying it's wrong to not be entertained, I'm saying it's stupid to bitch about the WWE doing what any other business would do. Should Coke stop promoting Coke just because you're tired of it? If you don't like it, don't watch. I hate Jersey Shore, I don't watch it, and I only talk about it when using this example.

I'm saying you're a douche bag. You're a douche bag when you begin and end near every post you make about how the marginalized "IWC" smark fan base doesn't matter at all. You're a douche bag when you have your shitty little "Anonymous IWC" quote in your sig like somehow you don't come across just as childish and petty as those you seek to mock. You're a douche bag for thinking that no one is allowed to criticize or complain about a product they don't enjoy.

Let's take your (played out) point about Coke. I like Pepsi over Coke. Do I think Coke should change it's formula for me? No, I do not. Does that mean I should never point out that I think Coke tastes like used motor oil? No, it doesn't.

Sure, I'm a smark. I don't like people who don't sell. I appreciate guys who can sell. Call me a smark. I'd rather be called a smark than a moves mark.

Don't you fucking get it, though? Why all this fucking division? Why can't we all just be marks or fans or whatever? Why do we have to draw lines between us? Why not just be ok with being a smark? Why have to put down the "moves marks" (stupid name, btw) in the same breath? At the end of the day, we're all people who enjoy watching men romp around in their underwear for one reason or another. No one group of us is better than the others; no one group of us has more valid reasons for watching and enjoying. No one group of us is more right than the other. We are all the fucking same. Again, get the fuck over yourself.

I enjoyed the rest of your post.

Why thank you.

 

[fiasco28]

I think, when it comes to the late 90s WWF at least, the internet not being as big as it is now helped mute the amount of bitching about top guys and what they did/didn't do with their opponents.

A big problem with the Cena's and Orton's is that, especially now, apart from each other (and part timers like Triple H/Undertaker) there's not anybody who's really on their level (and they sure as hell over played that feud) where as, in the late 90s, you had Austin and (full-time) Undertaker who could play off each other, then added the Rock, Mick Foley and Triple H to the main event mix and there was enough "supers" to keep them involved with each other without having them going up against someone that's below them (in public perception at least).

Over in WCW you had Goldberg, Nash, Hogan, Sting and a few others who also managed to keep things fresh.

So, to me, I think the "supers" would get a lot more love from everyone if there was more people on their level today...which can be done if creative actually made the effort to see through a push for somebody.

This is a great point, i wish people would realize that... there is really no one on Cena or Orton's level.. honestly.. i really feel that even if Cena and Orton were to have shoot matches with most of everyone excluding maybe the Big Show and Mark Henry (i guess), that they would still beat everyone..

WCW everybody was good, it really seemed like everyone was on par with one another, and you had talent everywhere. and even when Vince had alot of talent, he didnt use it right but thats for another topic..

anyways no, the word "super" being used on Cena and Orton is getting quite overrated, you cant fault them for the lack of talent and depth..and you cant fault them for the creative not pushing anyone else besides them really. the only person that bother me with it though, was HHH which is for another topic too but.. i feel he forced himself on creative to make him the always victor but anyways... we are all hypicrites because the same people that complain about Cena and Orton are most likely the same people that didnt care when it was HHH being "super"

or when it was Hogan, Austin, The Rock, Undertaker, HBK etc... and as for you CM Punk fans, you wouldnt complain if it were Punk being "super" or would you? the people that complain about Orton and Cena just dont like them for whatever personal reasons..

 

[akrassikauda]

As a seen the thread title I was say oh shit another Cena Sucks thread then seen who the OP was and knew it was going to be an intelligent rant.

Everything that was posted was spot on but I would say the first big name wrestler in the modern age with the "5 moves of doom" was Bruno and the Hulk Up was first done by Hogans idol Superstar Billy Graham. Everything you see in pro wrestling is the same song different verse.

And here on this thread we have the same arguement "he doesn't have a moveset" and Sting has been doing the same moves since 1989 and the worse sharpshooter of all time but hey I still like the guy he's evolved and so has Cena and Orton.

When the AE showed up it was the most repetitive predictable era in pro wrestling history. Every RAW Austin would fight McMahon,Lawler would say puppies 20 times, Rock would say something childish yet funny,DX would tell other men to suck it, and JR would scream Stone Cold like he just bust a nut. On Nitro the NWO would always be taking over burying younger talent and you want to talk about Cenas 5 moves of doom I'd rather see his 5 moves than Goldbergs shitty ass 2 moves of doom spear and jackhammer match over. And let's not forget the gratuitous sex and violence only 30 minutes of actual wrestling stupid storylines that came with that era. So stop with the nostalgia because it wasn't that great.

My Rant.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I too get annoyed by the "SuperCena sucks" comments that have plagued this forum for years, as well as the "Super Orton sucks" comments that are starting to pop up too. Those fans are all in a double standard. If they hate that guys like Cena or Orton "hulk up" and use their "moves of doom" then they should hate Hogan even more for doing the exact same thing but with even less moves and getting beaten up for sometimes even longer periods of time in the matches. If you don't like a wrestler, fine. No one's forcing you to. Those fans need to stop being annoying hypocrites though because top faces have always been booked like this though and likely always will until someone comes up with something that makes more sense. It's such a simple formula, and it has been around longer than some of us have been alive. I don't see it changing anytime soon. "Hulking up" and "moves of doom" aren't the issue. People refusing to give the wrestler a chance is.

 

[sajsSAMynwa1892]

"Super Cena"
"Super Orton"

I've seen these nicknames being thrown around for months on end. Once a top babyface or heel is known as a "comeback kid" during matches and comes out with a win on most occasions, this is the moniker they earn from the IWC. It's annoying, to say the least.

Want to know whats even more annoying? The same idiots that abuse and don this nickname to a WWE superstar are the same ones that creamed all over themselves whenever a match like this occurred in the late 1990's:


The even more amazing thing about the ones that use the "Super______" nickname is that they are the same ones who've embraced it with another wrestler from the past. Someone who did it so many times that the set of comeback moves was given its own name... the Hulk-Up. That's right; Hulk Hogan was the KING of the no-sell. No matter how much he would get his ass whipped for 15-20 minutes straight during some of his most famous encounters, this guy would always do his infamous Hulk-up and would have his hand raised at the end of most of his matches. And the crowd ate it up.

All of this comes down to preference. If you like the wrestler, you don't care if they Hulk-up during their matches. If you don't like the wrestler, you call them names and bitch about them like little children when they Hulk-up. Maybe you should all remind yourselves of who started that trend (Hulk Hogan), who followed in his footsteps in later years (Goldberg, The Rock, Steve Austin, Triple H, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels), and who you watch now that you show no respect for (Cena, Orton). Now, out of these guys, who do you respect and who don't you respect? Yup, exactly.

This formula has been a staple in the professional wrestling industry since the early 1980's and I highly doubt its going to change anytime soon. If you want to hate someone for Hulking Up, hate on Vince McMahon and the WWE machine. Hate on Vince Russo. Hate on Jeff Jarrett. Hell, hate on Paul Heyman. But stop being annoying and nicknaming the wrestlers that you are all going to worship once their careers begin to run out.

So, to close my rant, I'll say this - To all of you who use the monikers of "Super Cena" and "Super Orton", you're all a bunch of hypocrites. Is that statement abrasive? Probably... but it's also true.

i agree with you for the most part, hating a certain wrestler for the sake of it is annoying, when cena first started to get booed in his matches i was happy because personally I never saw his appeal, and didnt enjoy his matches unless they were with the likes of chris jericho shawn michaels etc. but then i saw randy orton getting similar treatment and thought that most of the people who hate cena in arenas have no basis for it because many cheered people like batista and goldberg and (in particular) hulk hogan. guys who were certainly not better wrestlers than cena, i dont dislike john cena on a personal level, or because of his "5 moves of doom", i dislike him just because his matches simply most of the time arent that good, i dislike hogan for exactly the same reason, and his no-selling of miz' "steel pipe" shots was comical.

 

[flawd101]

the more popular someone is the more haters they get. go to a bar for the next ppv. kids will be in cena shirts and adult men will be cheering for heels. every demographic has its own stars. everyone has there 5 moves. d bryan has kicks to a opponent on his knees, drop kick of the top rope, labell, guillotine and he hits the dive throught the ropes at an opponent standing on the outside. cena is the top guy so he gets the hate but whoever replaces him will get the same amount of hate.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

Which AT LEAST HALF is made up of boos and jeers.



I think Matt Hardy gets mentioned more on YouTube and maybe even on threads, so yeah...



When was the last time there was a WWE PPV card which didn't feature Cena? Do you have a basis of comparison here? Any numbers to back you up? Or are you just talking shit?



But the point wasn't that they numbered enough to matter, simply that they exist, that they are noticeable in the online community and on the shows themselves (where often at many arenas Cena is booed out of the house).



I'm saying you're a douche bag. You're a douche bag when you begin and end near every post you make about how the marginalized "IWC" smark fan base doesn't matter at all. You're a douche bag when you have your shitty little "Anonymous IWC" quote in your sig like somehow you don't come across just as childish and petty as those you seek to mock. You're a douche bag for thinking that no one is allowed to criticize or complain about a product they don't enjoy.

Let's take your (played out) point about Coke. I like Pepsi over Coke. Do I think Coke should change it's formula for me? No, I do not. Does that mean I should never point out that I think Coke tastes like used motor oil? No, it doesn't.



Don't you fucking get it, though? Why all this fucking division? Why can't we all just be marks or fans or whatever? Why do we have to draw lines between us? Why not just be ok with being a smark? Why have to put down the "moves marks" (stupid name, btw) in the same breath? At the end of the day, we're all people who enjoy watching men romp around in their underwear for one reason or another. No one group of us is better than the others; no one group of us has more valid reasons for watching and enjoying. No one group of us is more right than the other. We are all the fucking same. Again, get the fuck over yourself.



Why thank you.

the best post i have seen while being a member of wrestlezone. anyone who insults super dragon deserves the title "douche bag" i am proud to be a moves mark!

I think that all the bitching about cena comes from guys that just do it for fun. sure 75% of the audience loves but anyone can admit that cena gets annoying after a while. in any other place than the wrestling world hate response would be considered a bad thing but with all the attention cena gets because of it, its a benefit to him.

Im going to say what twjc the beggining said in his post toward anyone who finds super cena and super orton hate annoying. "if you dont like it dont read it"

 

[xxxdaniel_ariesxxx]

To all of you who use the monikers of "Super Cena" and "Super Orton", you're all a bunch of hypocrites. Is that statement abrasive? Probably... but it's also true.

Well, for one, You are assuming that everyone who uses the terms, "SuperCena" and "SuperOrton" are/where huge fans of Goldberg and Hogan, and thus we are all hypocrites. Yet, if You had read any of my Posts you would see that I also use those terms, and on a regular basis say that Goldberg was an over-hyped douchebag who believed that those piped in chants of his name actually meant that he was as good as HE thought he was. and as for Hogan I was never that big a fan of his, and wish that he would either pass the torch to the next generation, or just go away already.

so, is that an abrasive statement? sure it is... Is it true? No, not in my case at least.

and just a side rant: Why do people come on a WRESTLING forum, on the INTERNET, and them complain about the INTERNET WRESTLING COMMUNITY? If you are here, and you are a fan, and you interact... Doesn't that make you apart of said community?

 

[UltimateHitman]

Wow, am I really back on here again???

Anywho, I agree w/the post. I do like Cena (Boreton's another story) and I think the Super thing is played out. The hypocrite thing doesn't really apply, because even as a kid, at the beginning and height of Hulkamania and beyond, I did NOT like Hulk. So I've pretty much stayed constant there.

That being said, though, here recently I've started finding myself seeing what people are referring to. The problem is, is that the people he's against aren't being shown as a plausible threat. That, and the amount of different opponents is lacking. Even back during the Hogan era, you had all kinds of guys coming at him. One Man Gang, Bundy, Orndorff, Piper, Kamala, Andre, Warrior, Taker, etc. etc. There was at least a variety of opponents.

I feel if they would make his beat downs a little more significant, and give him that underdog, fighting against all odds feel again, it would be less stale. I mean, think about the Nexus angle. They had his back against the wall and you really got into the whole thing. Well, up until the end, anyway.

Now, things just seem too rushed. They seem afraid to make anybody appear to be a viable threat. And that's just hurting things all over. If you make his opponents more of a threat, and have more of a change around (opponents, title/non-title and back again), it not only helps the heel appear stronger and thus elevating talent more, but also helps the negativity towards Cena because he's shown to be more vulnerable.

Well, I think that's about it for my rant. If I forgot anything, I'll be sure to get it out.

 

[H33LTurn]

To counter my own point above, how does Cena hurt the product?



Seeing Cena go over may get boring, but I fail to see how it hurts credibility anywhere, especially in an industry where this kind of booking is not only regular but is quite the norm when it comes to the top babyface. So, again, use your brain and give me some reasons as to why and how this hurts the product at all.

I thought I just said it, it hurts the credibility. It doesnt matter if its the normal way of booking things, everything in the WWE points to the fans being tired of the "normal way" of WWE doing things. Did you see the half full SD/NXT arena? PPl are tired of the way WWE is running things. Its funny because WWE has obviously realized Cena's getting old and toned him down but people like you keep insisting its necessary for him to do the same stuff hes been doing for years out there.

I'm sorry, I was too busy marveling at how neat it is of WWE to have faith in guys like Christian, Mark Henry, and Sheamus to give them decent-to-great PPV matches and proper build up for said matches to bother listening to your irrelevant point about Orton being the only one they believe in. Try again, chump.

Your vendetta aginst me is addorable. The scat pictures, not so much, but its still funny.

Christian held the title for a week because WWE didnt believe he had what it took to carry the brand. Sheamus and Henry have been working the midcard. Orton's one of the only consistent main event workers on SD. Hes the pnly guy WWE can see carrying SD right now, it would explain how the belt always ends up on his shoulder. I'm not saying things cant change, but it is what it is.

 

[DirtyJosé]

I thought I just said it, it hurts the credibility. It doesnt matter if its the normal way of booking things, everything in the WWE points to the fans being tired of the "normal way" of WWE doing things. Did you see the half full SD/NXT arena? PPl are tired of the way WWE is running things. Its funny because WWE has obviously realized Cena's getting old and toned him down but people like you keep insisting its necessary for him to do the same stuff hes been doing for years out there.

Wait, you mean you're going to take one specific show date with low ticket sales and instead of blaming a volatile economy where people are hurting up and down the economic spectrum you're going to blame it on Cena? Lulz. Like I said, let me know when you have some facts to back up the shit you talk. One show out of the normally packed shows I see on TV. Yeah. You really got me with that one.

Your vendetta aginst me is addorable. The scat pictures, not so much, but its still funny.

Oh, baby, it's not about you specifically. I just don't like stupid people. Don't let it go to your head, you aren't the only one (though you are the only one to cry about it in the complaint/questions thread, hence the sig quote).

Christian held the title for a week because WWE didnt believe he had what it took to carry the brand. Sheamus and Henry have been working the midcard. Orton's one of the only consistent main event workers on SD. Hes the pnly guy WWE can see carrying SD right now, it would explain how the belt always ends up on his shoulder. I'm not saying things cant change, but it is what it is.

I'm saying you are ignorant and can't see the forest for the bear shit. If WWE didn't believe in a guy at all, they wouldn't give him the belt EVER, and they sure as shit wouldn't give him a belt AND let him be the SD main event for two PPV's. But, I mean, why follow logic when we can be like you and act like we don't know what the fuck we're talking about.

Then there's Henry, a guy who they've been pushing for months now as unstoppable. Yup, totally not showing faith in that guy at all. I mean, they've only tried to make his PPV matches seem important for a few months now, they've clearly only been building him up to this feud with the top guy Orton simply because they don't believe in him. Yup.

Oh, and Sheamus getting a face turn and getting saddled up with top guy Cena recently is likewise a sign that the guys backstage have no faith in him or aren't looking to keep things fresh at the top.

So yeah, come back when you actually know what the fuck you are talking about, chump.

 

[Lionshare]

I don't see anything bad in saying super (insert the wrestler name you dont like), i mean, seeing cena beat and embarrasing the next heel in the line for months and months, got old like 5 years ago. Most of the ppl that don't like cena use this as the big problem in the wwe right now, They over protect their "faces" to the point they never build another character.
And yeah you can bring how the feud with CM Punk wasn't like that, and that he bested cena a number of times, but that is an exception. Yeah cena sells the most in the roster, but for how long, how many more years until these kids grow up and start to dislike cena, who is the next face of the company?
To tell the truth the feud with cm punk really brought a breath of fresh air in the cena character, and we saw one of the best matches cena has been part of in the last 5 years, but now? its back to the same ol' cena, beating guys 2 on 1, and getting the best of the heel in turn.
I really hope the wwe get back on track on the cena character, because more and more ppl are gonna get sick of the "super-cena" of today.
My to cents.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I would not certainly say that there is no reason to dislike Cena but the "SuperCena" justification as a reason to hate Cena is certainly dumb. What happens is that when you start hating a wrestler for a certain reason and as the hate grows, so do the reasons. By the end of it fans are basically begging for a reason to hate the guy some more.

That is what has happened with Cena here. A point closely tied with the SuperCena reason is that he is supposed to be stale. Then, I ask for God's sake, why was he booed in 2005 in his first year as champion? How did he get stale in his first year itself? It's one thing if the hate started in 2008 or something but it is stupid if you try to justify Cena being stale as a reason to hate him in 2005.

It's basically the same thing here. Plenty of people have had finishing sequences, almost all babyfaces have had a second wind wherein they become almost invincible. It is only because of the fact that people hate Cena that they use this as a reason to hate on him. Look at Bret Hart. Wasn't he actually praised for using the Five Moves of Doom sequence?

 

[rockyrocky11]

To start off I will say that I like this thread. People get way exaggerated saying Punk or (insert other superstar's name here) carried Cena. That Cena had no part in MITB etc.

Anyway I have some points that agree and disagree with your post.

Agree: I feel that Orton and Cena get nowhere near the amount of credit they deserve. People are very near sited, and forget the CAREERs that these 2 have had. I made a post about why Orton is better than Punk and people tried to rip it apart. Cena and Orton have accomplished so much in the WWE, and without them the business would suffer tremendously. They have earned their spots at the top. Watch Randy Orton landing on tacks against Cactus Jack and tell me he doesn't care. Or watch some of Cena's older matches, they're honestly very entertaining, and he created so much heat when he was going against the Undertaker. They draw the biggest crowds, and more importantly to Vince the most money. They should win most of the matches they're in, becasue they're the faces of the company. So no, when there is a great match involving Cena or Orton

Disagree: The degree of predictability has gone way up due to their characters(mostly Cena). Generally in the past few years if Cena is in a match (especially for the title) he's going to win, and the more things that are going against him actually increases his chances of winning. Besides MITB, I can't remember the last Cena match where I was surprised about the ending. Especially in the I Quit Matches, the match was over before it started because he literally can't quit.

Let's take a look at some unpredictable moments of the Attitude era(this is not to generate a Attitude era Pg era debate I'm just using examples)

2 Of the biggest nights and moments in WWE history were Hell in a Cell and the first undisputed championship tournament. First in Hell in a Cell. It featured Rock, Austin, Taker, Rikishi, Angle, HHH. Angle had the belt going in so he's definitely got to lose right? And to one of the faces Rock/Austin/Taker who got beat up the show before. NO. Angle wins surprisingly and also it's hell in a cell it was clean. Not only that but he pinned the rock.

Now look at the first undisputed championship. Rock and Austin were both in the tournament. On the same night, Jericho beats both Austin AND The Rock. While I don't agree with it/wasn't happy about it, it still left me shocked, which is something a Cena match really has never done since he changed characters from rapping to face.

Also sticking with the I Quit theme Corporate heel Rock made face Mankind "say" I Quit, which was also shocking at the time.

Rock has lost to goldberg and lesnar(dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb). Nothing "Super" Rock about that.


So all in all yes I think there is a bit of "Super" Cena. I'm not saying he sucks or I hate him (which I don't), his character has gotten stale and taken unpredictability out of matches, but he doesn't deserve the hate he gets on this site.