Story that would inspire Vince Russo

Mr. TM

Throwing a tantrum
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia - A judge in Malaysia has upheld a court verdict to cane a Muslim woman for drinking beer, news reports said Monday, re-igniting a controversy over Islamic justice in this moderate Muslim-majority country.

The Star newspaper's Web site and national news agency Bernama said the chief Shariah judge of Pahang state ruled that a Shariah High Court's verdict against Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno, 32, was correct and should stay.

If the punishment is carried out, Kartika would become the first Muslim woman to be caned in Malaysia, where about 60 percent of the 28 million people are Muslims. No date was immediately set for the caning.

Do we really still live in a world where a seemingly new age country like Malaysia would cane a woman just because she was drinking a beer? Is this a human rights violation? Is this another case why there must be a clear break between church and state? In this fundamentalism gone wrong?

Now I live in a world, where I can drink a beer or 2 dozen any damn day I want. Then again, I was born with a penis. Now you are all thinking about my penis. Now being a guy who does respect the decency of the internet, I will stop talking about my penis. But this poor woman was not. She was also born in a nation controlled by Fundamentalist Muslims, which states that women are not allowed to drink beer apparently. This needs to stop, the western world separated church and state a long time ago, and we live in a great society now because of it, where TM is allowed to drink 1 or 2 dozen Okanagan Springs 1516 anytime he wants to do so.
 
This isn't the first time that third world countries have been in the headlines for their old and outdated laws. I don't know if you know about it TM, but back in the 90's there was an American male that went to Singapore, and got caught spray painting, and was sentenced to (I believe) 50 lashes. There was a major outcry, and the government wanted him brought back to the US for proper punishment (probably a fine, maybe some community service).

I have to agree. They need to get themselves out of the Stone Age, and change their laws to something a little more relevant to the new millenium. There is no way that a woman drinking a beer should be punished at all, much less with the same cruelty that a petty thief or carjacker would.
 
We need to be careful here before someone starts shunning the entirety of Shariah Law and the application of said law. Not every country applies Shariah Law as strictly as this. In fact, many have criminal laws as secular as our own, with some countries having civil matters taken care of in a separate Shariah Court for all those who opt for it. Most Muslim countries don't even apply Shariah Law to their court system.

I'm going to use wiki to further explain my point:

There is tremendous variety in the interpretation and implementation of Islamic Law in Muslim societies today. Liberal movements within Islam have questioned the relevance and applicability of sharia from a variety of perspectives; Islamic feminism brings multiple points of view to the discussion. Some of the largest Muslim countries, including Indonesia, Bangladesh and Pakistan, have largely secular constitutions and laws, with only a few Islamic Law provisions in family law. Turkey has a constitution that is officially strongly secular. India and the Philippines are the only countries in the world which have separate Muslim civil laws, wholly based on Sharia. In India, Muslim civil laws are framed by the Muslim Personal Law board while in the Philippines, it is framed by the Code of Muslim Personal Laws. However, the criminal laws in both the countries are uniform.

According to Wiki, only India and the Philippines have separate Shariah civil law systems that are singularly based on Sharia. Also, some of the largest Muslim countries don't even have Shariah Law but for a few instances of family law.

In September 2008, certain newspapers in the United Kingdom sensationally alleged that the government had "quietly sanctioned" the recognition of Sharia courts. However, this is not really a submission to Sharia law but applies to situations where both sides in a legal dispute freely choose a Sharia court as a binding arbitrator rather than taking a matter before the official courts. The decision does not break new ground. The decisions of similar Jewish beth din court arbitations have been recognized in England for over 100 years. Neither party can be forced into arbitration by a Sharia or a Jewish court.

This just shows that even the United Kingdom yields recognition to Shariah and Jewish Beth Din courts if both parties opt to go that route. Obviously Shariah Law isn't that barbaric, or the UK would not be recognizing such a system.

Most countries of the Middle East and North Africa maintain a dual system of secular courts and religious courts, in which the religious courts mainly regulate marriage and inheritance. Saudi Arabia and Iran maintain religious courts for all aspects of jurisprudence, and the Mutaween (religious police) assert social compliance. Laws derived from sharia are also applied in Afghanistan, Libya and Sudan. Sharia law is officially recognised by the justice system in Israel in matters of personal status of Muslims (e.g. marriage, divorce, guardianship.) Judges' salaries are paid by the state. Some states in northern Nigeria have reintroduced Sharia courts. In practice the new Sharia courts in Nigeria have most often meant the re-introduction of harsh punishments without respecting the much tougher rules of evidence and testimony. The punishments include amputation of one/both hands for theft and stoning for adultery and apostasy.

Hell. Even Israel recognizes Muslim law in personal, non-criminal matters. Also, most Middle Eastern and African Muslim countries offer a dual system, as I noted before. Only a few go overboard with the strict interpretation you see in the above case, such as Nigeria.

Basically, what I'm trying to say, is that this shouldn't lead to a universal hatred of Shariah Law. Many countries apply it effectively to family or civil matters when the people involve wish. I'm just wishing to stop anyone posting about how crazy Muslim Law is before it starts. A preemptive attempt, if you will.

As far as what happened with this lady...that's where things can go wrong. When countries have a judicial system entirely rooted in traditional Shariah Law things such as this can and will happen. It's a prime example of when the judges interpreting the law either need to gain a more contemporary understanding of the law, or the country needs to adopt a separate criminal law system. What happened here would be no different than if a judge tried to apply ancient Old Testament law in the American courts and went overboard because a woman wore a low-cut dress. It's sad, but this will continue to happen until countries update to a new level of laws.
 
The main thing to remember is, you grew up in a western world, probably relatively free for the most part. One of the first things I learned going into the field of anthropology is what we called the Master Yoda rule, you must unlearn what you have learned. What might seem cruel and barbaric to you, is normal and everyday to the people that live in those countries. To those people, we might be mindless, godless pigs that live in debauchery (sp) and decadence and our opinions simply don't matter to said country.

Until the members of said country/religion feel strongly enough to change it, then as much as you may dislike it, you should try to at least understand why things like this happen in that part of the world. I don't condone it, but I respect the laws of that land. Those citizens know what they can and can't do, and the consequences of their actions if they get caught.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
174,826
Messages
3,300,732
Members
21,726
Latest member
chrisxenforo
Back
Top