Steroids in Wrestling...

[Mighty NorCal]

I know nothing about steroids, what they do and the difference between them. The only thing I heard is that they can cause problems with the heart and doctor's won't prescribe them if the family has a history of heart disease. I almost might be wrong about that as well.

Read the list that Rayne linked in his post and that's the one thing that did jump out at me though, the amount of wrestlers that have died from heart attacks or related heart disease.

They can. They build LDL and HDL cholesterol, which plaques up your arteries.


Know what else does that?

bacon cheeseburgers.


Use, not abuse.

 

[Makaveli31]

I'm not debating him this time. I'm actually on his side on this one.

 

[Navi]

They can. They build LDL and HDL cholesterol, which plaques up your arteries.


Know what else does that?

bacon cheeseburgers.


Use, not abuse.

Will stay away from steroids, but not staying away from bacon cheeseburgers. Love them.

And yes this is the guy from the Kimbo Slice thread, thought he was familiar.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Will stay away from steroids, but not staying away from bacon cheeseburgers. Love them.

And yes this is the guy from the Kimbo Slice thread, thought he was familiar.

Apparently we hold the same views on steroids in general, just not on the amount of use Kimbo Slice did and when.


As an update to that particular argument, ive heard on podcasts from people who ran with the same crew Kimbo did that he also did a lot of partying (IE heavy cocaine use)

Steroid abuse and heavy cocaine use is the cocktail of death and commonality of most everyone on Rayne's list. Heavy alchohol abuse conrtibutes too.

 

[therockiswwf]

NIH is more reputable than steroids for dummies. You ignored that abuse also means using it once without actually needing it. Abuse is very broad and not you have to take 5000000 things to be considered an abuser. Though you aren't the first person to make that mistake.

They have data and explain steroids are dangerous. They also explain why the dangers have probably been under reported. They rely on case studies which really only show obvious side effects.

Long term studies have been done on animals (yes I understand that's way different from humans) and the results show steroids are incredibly dangerous.

You seem ignorant of the dangers. You cannot safely use steroids if you do not need them. Yes they do think most side effects are reversible. They also don't know when the point of no return is (such as when it causes heart problems).

 

[Mighty NorCal]

And the correspondence with an actual medical doctor? Have you ever seen the documentary Bigger, Faster, Stronger?

I simply picked the first things I found, which weren't hard to find. THe information on this is so readily available and understood, you have to actively avoid it. Which you seem to be. Shit even the ANIT-STEROID literature agrees with the things im saying.

The things you are saying are simply not correct or true


Yes, they DO know when the point of no return is with heart issues, the same point of no return that you get from plaque build-up of every other kind!! EVen then, its reversible, you just have to change whatever is causing your wall thickening (diet, alchohol, steroids, whatever)


Steroids are dangerous. So is alchohol. So is fast food. They pose literally the same health threats as steroid use for the most part.


You dont seem to be able to understand this beyond your very narrow-minded fear-mongering view you have been taught.

 

[Makaveli31]

So if you understand animals or different than humans why even bring it up? I'm pretty the animals aren't getting blood work done to make sure their levels are stable and their is no risk LOL

More sheep babble. Nothing specific. No "dangers" listed. Nothing. NorCal and I just obliterated your entire argument.

And BTW Abuse means taking OVER the prescribed dose.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I'm pretty the animals aren't getting blood work done to make sure their levels are stable and their is no risk LOL

To add to this, literally ANY doctor who considers perscribing them or even veteran long time juice heads will tell you to get a full-fledged work up of cardio, cholesterol and blood pressure done before your first dose.

 

[therockiswwf]

And the correspondence with an actual medical doctor? Have you ever seen the documentary Bigger, Faster, Stronger?

I simply picked the first things I found, which weren't hard to find. THe information on this is so readily available and understood, you have to actively avoid it. Which you seem to be. Shit even the ANIT-STEROID literature agrees with the things im saying.

The things you are saying are simply not correct or true


Yes, they DO know when the point of no return is with heart issues, the same point of no return that you get from plaque build-up of every other kind!! EVen then, its reversible, you just have to change whatever is causing your wall thickening (diet, alchohol, steroids, whatever)


Steroids are dangerous. So is alchohol. So is fast food. They pose literally the same health threats as steroid use for the most part.


You dont seem to be able to understand this beyond your very narrow-minded fear-mongering view you have been taught.

They know anabolic steroids cause heart damage. They do not know how much anabolic steroids cause irreversible heart damage. Like does 10 doses or 50 doses cause it to become irreversible? We don't know. Will it always recover if done safely? We don't know.

Last year a brain scan study was done on people who have used steroids long term. It did not state whether it was abusers or people who needed them (which is a big flaw to be fair). The results found significant abnormalities when compared to non-users. This was a study done by an affiliate of Harvard. The other data I've used before this is from the National Institute of Health. You used steroids for dummies.

Eating unhealthy and drinking alcohol (which I don't drink anyways) are bad for you. However, a large amount of studies on food and alcohol have been done while anabolic steroids studies haven't been done that often. Eating a cheeseburger is way different from steroids. I get the point you were trying to make with it (in low doses, it can be safe I'm guessing was your point). We know we can eat a burger and be fine. We can do one dose of roids and be fine. However it is not really known what long term, cycle use of roids are. Probably not good.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Oh my god.


Oh my fucking god.


Thank you.

For saying exactly what ive been saying this entire thread

 

[Makaveli31]

They know anabolic steroids cause heart damage. They do not know how much anabolic steroids cause irreversible heart damage. Like does 10 doses or 50 doses cause it to become irreversible? We don't know. Will it always recover if done safely? We don't know.

Steroids don't cause heart damage steroids LEADS to 1) high blood pressure 2) Low HDL and LDL cholesterol levels which leads to plaque buildup along the walls of the arteries. NorCal has mentioned this NUMEROUS times. Why don't you get it?!?

Getting regular blood work done identifies this BEFORE it becomes a MAJOR problem. i.e. the prescription of blood pressure medication the prescription of fish oil and niacin taking steps to decrease blood pressure and increase good cholesterol through cardio vascular activity.

UNCHECKED high blood pressure/bad cholesterol levels leads to heart disease and heart attacks. But no steroids BY THEMSELVES do not cause heart disease. It takes YEARS to develop completely closed arteries and again that due to ABUSE and lack of prevention.

Eating a cheeseburger is way different from steroids. I get the point you were trying to make with it (in low doses, it can be safe I'm guessing was your point). We know we can eat a burger and be fine. We can do one dose of roids and be fine. However it is not really known what long term, cycle use of roids are. Probably not good.

As long you monitor your health you will be fine. See a doctor regularly. There is no need to be scared.

 

[therockiswwf]

Oh my god.


Oh my fucking god.


Thank you.

For saying exactly what ive been saying this entire thread

I said long term effects from "safe" use is not well understood but thought to be harmful. Also safe use means you have to have a need for it. Short term safe use does come with side effects that are usually (with what we currently know) reversible. Keyword being usually.

There is no way to use it safely without a need. This is important. The Rock actually had to get surgery for breast growth. I can't imagine why. Oh but hey we know he has no long term problems because he used them safely....oh wait we don't know that he has no problems. He never stated having a need for them meaning he could never use it safely.

I have no idea what you meant by this post. We are going in circles at this point. I'll go with science and you can use whatever you want.

 

[Makaveli31]

OK keep being scared, misinformed and using outdated "science".

 

[therockiswwf]

Steroids don't cause heart damage steroids LEADS to 1) high blood pressure 2) Low HDL and LDL cholesterol levels which leads to plaque buildup along the walls of the arteries. NorCal has mentioned this NUMEROUS times. Why don't you get it?!?

Getting regular blood work done identifies this BEFORE it becomes a MAJOR problem. i.e. the prescription of blood pressure medication the prescription of fish oil and niacin taking steps to decrease blood pressure and increase good cholesterol through cardio vascular activity.

UNCHECKED high blood pressure/bad cholesterol levels leads to heart disease and heart attacks. But no steroids BY THEMSELVES do not cause heart disease. It takes YEARS to develop completely closed arteries and again that due to ABUSE and lack of prevention.


As long you monitor your health you will be fine. See a doctor regularly. There is no need to be scared.

Steroids lead to things that wouldn't happen if steroids were not taken. That's literally what you said. How does that defend steroids? Blood pressure reducers will not work forever. There's a reason steroids are not prescribed long term.

You argue with the right steps, steroids will cause almost no problems no matter how long it is taken (as long as doctors monitor it and tell you when to stop) and no matter who takes it. Which is not true and absurd to suggest.

There is no level at which it is safe to take it if you have a normal testosterone level. Period.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I have no idea what you meant by this post. We are going in circles at this point. I'll go with science and you can use whatever you want.

You are doing anything but going with science.

You argue with the right steps, steroids will cause almost no problems no matter how long it is taken (as long as doctors monitor it and tell you when to stop) and no matter who takes it. Which is not true and absurd to suggest.

There is no level at which it is safe to take it if you have a normal testosterone level. Period.

Literally thousands of people do this regularly. Every day. If you take it for too long, then that crosses into abuse. I dont know how many different ways we can lay this out for you at this point.

Sheer, brazen willful ignorance and lack of knowledge of the subject matter.

Think what you want, man.







The bottom line for the OP is that the WWE can't allow people to use because that is illegal, and is a level 2 narcotic.


The fact that people will get competitive with their physiques as well will inevitably lead to widespread abuse and irresponsible use, which they can't have either.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Actors regularly juice for certain roles and nobody gives a fuck. Why should wrestlers, who are glorified stuntmen, be held to a different standard?

After reading through NorCal's links and keeping up with this thread, I am wrong to assume steroids lead to steroid induced rage. I'm also probably the first person in the history of the internet to change his stance when new information is provided to them.

But wrestlers are not treated like actors (even though they fucking should be). I'm reading NBC Sports on Facebook right now. It's covering what happened between Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose when Raw went off the air. WWE treats itself like a legitimate sport. I'm not saying it's right, but as long as WWE is being promoted through Sports networks and the like, they should be held to the same standard other sports are. That's the nature of the beast.

I'm not saying it's right. God knows I don't give a shit if Orton is smoking pot or juicing up. But as long as WWE continues to call itself sports entertainment instead of an athletic soap opera then they should be held to the same rules sports are.

 

[ShinChan]

I think steroids should be mandatory in all sports. I want to see the best athletes possible. Who cares if they die at 40? Most athletes hate life after sports anyway.

I respectfully disagree, sir.

That would be artificially best athletes. In other words, it would be a cheating just to win a competition. Why shouldn't we care? They are also humans like us. Why do they need to take steroids just to make sure that you see best athletes?

 

[Nate DaMac]

I respectfully disagree, sir.

That would be artificially best athletes. In other words, it would be a cheating just to win a competition. Why shouldn't we care? They are also humans like us. Why do they need to take steroids just to make sure that you see best athletes?

I'm fairly certain that was a joke.

 

[Navi]

I respectfully disagree, sir.

That would be artificially best athletes. In other words, it would be a cheating just to win a competition. Why shouldn't we care? They are also humans like us. Why do they need to take steroids just to make sure that you see best athletes?

Like Nate said, I don't think Yaz was serious Kapu. No one wants to see world class athletics just keel over and die at a young age.

 

[M]

This is the same dude who went on a tear in the kimbo slice thread saying his constant steroid abuse had absolutely zero effect on his heart problem and eventual heart related death, right?

I mean, clearly he's an irrelevant figure in any conversation regarding steroids. Stop forgetting these things, people, make the fool work his way back to being considered human before you treat him as such.

It's been common knowledge for decades now that constant use of steroids is touchy at best. Obviously, any steroid used as a recovery/exercise aid under supervision from professionals is fine, I don't really think anyone would be swayed as far as disagreeing to that extent. Where the issues comes up is in the sport. Wrestling is constant, the guys in the WWE are either working out, wrestling, or getting to the next place that they have to work out and wrestle. That happens all year for a full roster, so the roadblock you end up with when you introduce a professional steroid scheme is managing that to an effective extent. WWE probably have the money to ensure that it happens, but I highly doubt they would consider the positives of that sort of system as outweighing both the costs and the social/media stigma. There's also an issue when it comes to the independent scene - if the WWE change their approach, there's potential to cause an extremely unregulated surge of use in places that simply can't handle it enough to make it safe. You also might end up in a situation where the guys trying to make it to the WWE are pushing themselves beyond all safe limits because they won't have to worry about being tested.

In basic terms, why bother introducing an expensive steroid scheme when the monetary rewards wouldn't set the world on fire and guys like Daniel Bryan, Dean Ambrose, and Sami Zayn have been extremely over in the last few years?

 

[Rayne]

I'm sure that proper steroid use under the care of a respected doctor is exactly what a professional wrestler has in mind when they're looking for a larger, more muscular figure.

Use, not abuse.

 

[BaconBits]

In basic terms, why bother introducing an expensive steroid scheme when the monetary rewards wouldn't set the world on fire and guys like Daniel Bryan, Dean Ambrose, and Sami Zayn have been extremely over in the last few years?

Being over =/= success. None of them are even half the reach of Cena, Lesnar or The Rock (Or Hogan. Or Austin. Or Goldberg. Or Triple H... etc)

Modern professional wrestling (in the last 50 or so years) is about larger than life figures. The most financially successful wrestlers in history are roided-up monsters.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Actors and professional wrestlers have very different lifestyles. It is reasonable to not allow wrestlers to use steroids. The whole 200+ days on the road banging up your bodies consistently may not be conducive to steroid use unlike getting jacked for Fast and Furious 27.

When professional wrestling changes or professional wrestlers show they can be responsible I'm all for safe use being an option. Right now I'd argue that professional wrestlers don't have a leg to stand on in the personal responsibility arena.

But mostly I'm with Yaz.

 

[M]

Modern professional wrestling (in the last 50 or so years) is about larger than life figures. The most financially successful wrestlers in history are roided-up monsters.

...you mentioned Stone Cold though. Not the most roided up monster, that man. Pretty relatable character though.

Bodies are tools to get certain types of characters over. If you think being larger than life is just about being large, then you have no place being a wrestling fan.

 

[BaconBits]

...you mentioned Stone Cold though. Not the most roided up monster, that man. Pretty relatable character though.

Bodies are tools to get certain types of characters over. If you think being larger than life is just about being large, then you have no place being a wrestling fan.

Fuck off with the high horse wrestling fan bullshit. Your neckbeard is showing.

Stone Cold almost certainly was juicing during his time on top, though an awful lot of that was to help recovery from his various injuries.

And sure, being large isn't necessary to be larger than life... but it helps a whole shitload. You're only thinking in terms of wrestling. I'm talking about success on a different level. Daniel Bryan or Dean Ambrose isn't going to be asked to be in any major motion pictures or anything like that.... but The Rock and Batista are.