Stephanie McMahon is totally right!

[quagmire]

As someone else stated, the McMahon's simply gave these stars the opportunity to shine. They deserve credit for that.

But, stars like CM Punk and Daniel Byran created themselves. Because it simply is because no matter who the McMahon's want to push, doesn't mean the fans will accept them( cough Ryback cough). Why? It is because the performers are able to do it. Sure HHH/McMahon's green lighted Punk's pipe bomb back in 2011, but it was Punk that came up with it. It was Punk that delivered it. To take that credit away from Punk and say the WWE created CM Punk is ridiculous.

All they did was give Punk the chance to prove himself. Show that he can get the fans behind him. They should get credit for that. But, fans accepting CM Punk was due to CM Punk.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

At the end of the day it is a symbiotic relationship. Vince alone had nothing, with the talent he has a show and with certain talent who can elevate themselves using the opportunity he provided he has become a billionaire. Make no mistake, wrestling existed long before Vince McMahon took over... not to the levels it does but eventually someone would have cottoned on, maybe it would not have been the same thing but wrestling was already on the way to growing with Starrcade and Hogan in Rocky III.

But in Vince's defence he took the leap... but he still has only EVER provided the stage and the marketing that he should be praised for. Many will point to Mr. McMahon but that was simply another marketing tool, one that the WWE has used since 97 in place of "wrestling booking" to guarantee an antagonist for his TV show. At the moment it is Trips and Steph in that role rather than Vince, sometimes it's a GM. Austin was over with or without Vince as a counter point... had Bret stayed, had Shawn stayed had Pillman survived his crash unscathed, it still would have happened a similar way without Vince's involvment onscreen.

The McMahons and Stephanie in particular have rarely actually improved the show by being a part of of it. The only one who really does have a claim is Shane who was a very underrated worker... but how did he get so good? Cos he had 2 generations of stars to "train him" when he was younger and goofing off in a ring at shows.. Shane was good but looked good cos the guys he worked with allowed him to and more importantly respected him enough for his ethic to learn the craft. Ironically he is now the one with the "business savvy" and who on balance SHOULD be running the company, but he probably won't be...unless the Chinese won't do business without him (which is likely now)...Steph is schilling that stock to someone... and it's very likely Big Bro....

Steph has never had that ethic, she married a top worker and created a power couple, anyone messes with her Trips would bury them in the ring and the locker room and she would be running creative to make sure they were opening with Gillberg in a losing effort. Now these two have the keys to the kingdom. I don't count Trips here cos he isn't a true McMahon and if he screwed up would be replaced... he's fallen into the best position possible, a wife 90% of people think is hot, a company to inherit over the first born and a legacy he can manipulate to be the best.

Linda has rarely appeared much less contributed...arguably her runs at office have detracted rather than helped. Vince was never a great announcer, as a heel boss character he was better but still not needed. You could remove the McMahons from TV forever and the show would still work. Remove wrestlers and talented guys like Bryan, Punk and even Cena and the TV show set in the world of wrestling Vince puts out dies. Bryan, Punk, even Cena can still go to Japan or make a living wrestling...

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

Vince McMahon deserves his plaudits as he was able to see a time where wrestling could become a national brand, and win out over regional promotions. WrestleMania, his maneuvering to block others out of certain arenas, the TV deals showed that he had a great vision for wrestling on an national and international scale.

I will, however, always disagree with his old chestnut about being an entertainment company rather than a wrestling promotion gone big; Sorry, Vince, but pro wrestling has always been entertainment no matter whether it was Crockett, Turner, Mondt, McMahon Sr., Muchnick or Gagne running the promotion (okay, maybe not Gagne...that man wouldn't know entertainment if it bit him on the ass.)

I'd like to say McMahon was successful at keeping people in line and cutting ties when necessary, except that he was very inconsistent in this regard. He could scuttle the best ideas at the drop of a hat because when it came down to it, his ego was as enormous as Hogan's and Michaels' and he could be every bit as petty (and self-destructive).

But in the end, it was McMahon that brought 93k into the Silverdome. He was standing on the shoulders of a literal Giant whose legend wasn't solely built in the WWF. He needed Hogan every bit as much as Hogan needed him. It's the same way today. Cena is loyal to the idea of the WWE. By the same token, can you imagine how the WWE would be doing today without John Cena?

So give McMahon his credit where it's due, but don't overstate his abilities just because he's the last one standing out of a slew of bad businessmen.

 

[Rasslin_fan]

Of course people need to stop complaining and pretending like they know more than Vince - because they don't, point blank!

Now, onto Cuntanie McMahon. She has NO right making that claim. Vince can make that claim, but not her. She was nothing more than some little spoiled cunt who used to spy on the naked men in the showers and go suck on their cocks while no one was looking.

 

[LBGetBack]

Complete Bulls**t. If it wasn't for the McMahons......then somebody else would run the #1 wrestling promotion. They didn't invent wrestling. It was popular before them. They simply were able to monopolize the business. Good for them.....really.

But if they didn't exist, it would just be someone else in that spot. There would be a popular wrestling promotion regardless, and the best guys(like Bryan) would be in it regardless.

 

[LBGetBack]

Of course people need to stop complaining and pretending like they know more than Vince - because they don't, point blank!

Now, onto Cuntanie McMahon. She has NO right making that claim. Vince can make that claim, but not her. She was nothing more than some little spoiled cunt who used to spy on the naked men in the showers and go suck on their cocks while no one was looking.

Sounds like you have some issues with women being in positions of power. Good grief. Get help.

Stephanie said that IN CHARACTER. Meaning she's talented enough to make you mad as shit, because as a heel that is her job.

 

[thebarber]

sorry but the way Daniel Bryan was booked from the get-go in 2010, Vince didnt get Bryan over, he got himself over. After Vince fed hBryan to SAheamus in 40 seconds or whatever at Mania 28, he has had a massive following, Fans know how good Danielson is and know his history, Vince can pretend the indys dont matter, tell Punk, Cesaro, Nigel McGuinness, Samoa Joe etc........Bryan has organically gotten over with the masses, and Vicne hates anythnig he doesnt build or create himself. Now he is in a corner that he has to do something with Bryan otherwise his Universe are going to shit on his product.
The Rybcak clusterfucj was all WWE fault too. He was initially pushed brilliantly when he was made to step up when Cena got injured, but the problem arose when the fans were massively behind him, a new, fresh guy who they could believe in. But Vicne didnt want this, and once Cena returned, Ryback was jobbed out. Vince does what he wants, regardless of what the fans want/like. WWE has done alot of good over the years yes, but recent years have been more misses than hits

 

[d_henderson1810]

NO...she isn't right for a simple reason.

Vince himself has always said all he does is provide opportunity. It is up to the talent to "grab the brass ring", in the case of guys like Bryan and Punk they have done so inspite of Vince's opinions and preconceptions. While Vince deserves credit for the drive and inspiration that led to Wrestlemania and wrestling becoming what it is it was the talents who made it work. Now he doesn't want to be wrestling, he wants to be a soap based in the world of wrestling so while he wants different things he doesn't deserve ANY credit for doing so.

The McMahon's alone are a poor reality show...with the talents of the WWE they become more than the sum of their parts. Vince needed Hogan to make it work, he needed the symbol... he needed Piper to be the antihesis of that, he needed an undercard of guys who could make Hogan and Andre's limitations fade away... He STILL needs all of these types, unfortunately they don't conform to his "view" of what works in the modern era. Someone like Bryan isn't 6ft 7", buillt like the proverbial shitehouse or movie star material... but he is a great wrestler... The core fans come back to wrestling, they don't want what McMahon is cooking with his desperation to become Disney (or be bought by them more accurately) they WANT wrestling... and Bryan and Punk are the two best of their generation. Unfortunately Vince wants to feed you the "not so greats" of the last Generation like Bootista in the absence of Rock and Austin... and Vince's and thus Steph's mentaility is you should be grateful for that... it's wrong... He should be grateful that he has a company still after pursuing a deliberate alienation game against his consumers for the last 9 months and he's only lost a guy who was gone in 3 months anyway.

I guess it is like this.

Pretend that a WWE talent is a rock star. Now, they may have all the talent in the world, but they don't have a way for the world to see their talent. They need worldwide recognition and exposure. If they could do that themselves, they would. But instead, a lot of the best talent aren't big until they are "discovered", often by a talent agent, and when they are, then everything is given for them to become a global star. They still have to run with it, but
without the forum to get them noticed, they remain little known and a lot of people never know who they are.

Well, Vince is like a talent agent. He sees someone he believes has talent, and gives them all the necessary tools to succeed. Now, they need to deliver on their own, but they are given every opportunity. If a rock star is signed by Sony or Mushroom records, but he or she doesn't make capture the public's imagination, despite the company's best efforts, is that the record company's fault, or the talent's?

Well, its the same in WWE. Vince provides the forum for these talents to be global megastars. Punk and Bryan may be indy darlings, but they would remain "small-time" if they hadn't gone to WWE. I bet Bryan isn't complaining about the exposure he is getting, or the money is making (better than he ever would in ROH), and that is because Vince made WWE a global juggernaut, rather than a small time territory. So, without Vince and the WWE, most of these guys would not have the fame and fortune they have now, and they wouldn't be entertaining as many people as they do now, and for that, you can thank Vincent Kennedy McMahon!

 

[Trill Co$by]

During a promo on "Raw", Stephanie told Daniel Bryan that he and the WWE Universe are only there because of the McMahons.

Somewhat, yeah. WWE has helped create

You see, this is what all of you (and ingrates like C.M. Punk) refuse to acknowledge. You blame the McMahons for everything that goes wrong in the WWE, but you have to give them credit for what they have done right as well.

Nobody blames Vince for CM Punk leaving. They blame HHH. In fact, we're all hoping that Vince can find a way to get Punk to come back to WWE.

Without Vince McMahon, there would have been no Daniel Bryan (he would still be Bryan Danielson, wrestling in some pool hall somewhere, rather than known globally). There would be "Stone Cold" Steve Austin (since, if there was no WWE, Steve Austin would still be the guy with long hair, who lost to "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan in ten seconds). There would have been no Rock, Mark Callaway would have been just another dime-a-dozen big guy, and Triple H would have been remembered as Terra Ryzing.

You do realize that Daniel Bryan has sold out events in Japan, Mexico, Canada, etc. that had over 30,000 people in attendance right? I think that qualifies him as "known globally" as you put it.

Stone Cold was doing just fine in ECW, and would've been accepted back into WCW if he was able to actually wrestle. Bischoff let Austin go because he wasn't able to make money off of Austin while Austin was injured. A smart business decision, and I'm sure there was an offer for Austin to come back if he was healthy enough. Unfortunately, Austin got a call from McMahon who put Russo on his character and the rest was history.

Dwayne was a Jerry Lawler creation.

HHH was actually loved by Bischoff. It was HHH who left for WWF, so I have to assume that if HHH would've stayed in WCW then he would have had a healthy career.

Without Vince, there would have been no "Attitude Era" (you could argue that WCW forced the change, but Vince changed it the way he did). There would have no Wrestlemania, no Hulkamania, no WWE.

NWA/WCW was the brand that led the charge. Vince bought out most of the NWA territories which led WCW to form. If Vince hadn't done that, NWA would still be king today. Wrestling probably would still be considered a real sport if it wasn't for Vince blabbing about it to everyone.

Criticism I do not accept about Vince McMahon is when all his achievements are credited to others (e.g. SCSA made himself a star etc). When someone gets over, they are given the credit by the Universe. Yet if someone doesn;t get over, it is all the WWE's fault. The WWE has made a lot of guys stars, yet they are not given the credit for being the ones who made them stars. If you plan to criticize the bad things, you had better give credit for the good things too.

First of all... DX, Stone Cold, The Rock, and Mankind were ALL Vince's ideas. But NOT McMahon's. They were the brain children of Vince Russo, who everyone claims was a terrible booker yet managed to book most of Attitude Era's greatest moments. He also was gearing to give WCW new life with the New Blood initiative if TNT hadn't sold WCW to Vince simply because they didn't want it.

Your attitude shouldn't be that Vince McMahon was never any good. Your attitude should be that he is, therefore he is not meeting the mark now. So, your disappointment should that Vince McMahon can do better, but choses not to as this time. He is not incompetent, but has gotten lazy. This is why I don't lose faith in WWE. Vince was great once, he can be again, so that always gives me hope.

You do realize you didn't help your case right?

You have a right to criticize, but it should be because you expect better, because you got that in the past, not because you think that Vince McMahon was never that good. So, shouldn't you, next time you criticise Vince, think that he has the credits in the bank, so is owed the benefit of the doubt that he will do the right thing in the end, and that maybe he knows more about business than you. I think he deserves at least that.

Vince gets credit from everyone on these forums for something. Everyone has their favorite W[W]WF/WWE moment that they still love to this day, and they also love the WWE Network idea [at least the US does]. We just don't like the way the product seems to be going, at least some people don't.

 

[Rasslin_fan]

Sounds like you have some issues with women being in positions of power. Good grief. Get help.

Stephanie said that IN CHARACTER. Meaning she's talented enough to make you mad as shit, because as a heel that is her job.

I don't care what she said IN CHARACTER! What I said was fact!

Also, I'm waaay more embracing to women in power than you will ever be. Just because I call a female out doesn't make me sexist!

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

What she's actually totally right about, and which is the more concerning part, is when she said "of course we don't listen to the fans, why would we?"

It's true. They don't. They don't really care if they piss off their core audience. And they have no reason to either because there are no other options.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I guess it is like this.

Pretend that a WWE talent is a rock star. Now, they may have all the talent in the world, but they don't have a way for the world to see their talent. They need worldwide recognition and exposure. If they could do that themselves, they would. But instead, a lot of the best talent aren't big until they are "discovered", often by a talent agent, and when they are, then everything is given for them to become a global star. They still have to run with it, but
without the forum to get them noticed, they remain little known and a lot of people never know who they are.

Well, Vince is like a talent agent. He sees someone he believes has talent, and gives them all the necessary tools to succeed. Now, they need to deliver on their own, but they are given every opportunity. If a rock star is signed by Sony or Mushroom records, but he or she doesn't make capture the public's imagination, despite the company's best efforts, is that the record company's fault, or the talent's?

Well, its the same in WWE. Vince provides the forum for these talents to be global megastars. Punk and Bryan may be indy darlings, but they would remain "small-time" if they hadn't gone to WWE. I bet Bryan isn't complaining about the exposure he is getting, or the money is making (better than he ever would in ROH), and that is because Vince made WWE a global juggernaut, rather than a small time territory. So, without Vince and the WWE, most of these guys would not have the fame and fortune they have now, and they wouldn't be entertaining as many people as they do now, and for that, you can thank Vincent Kennedy McMahon!

I get this cos my trade is Music Business and have spent a lot of time studying this stuff.

This was true through to the most recent of times... Vince was the guy getting your "megastars" Budokan or Wembley Stadium or a 5 album deal with Sony in your analogy... only today the means of production and distribution of ALL entertainment is different.

Vince stopped "managing acts" as you say and became a "Rock n' Roll Empire" where he could do it all... If you want an analogy of this look at KISS and their former manager Bill Aucoin... same thing, take something small and make it a global phenom, then destroy it by trying to be something you're not, diversifying it into areas you shouldn't be going into like movies and networks and XFL's. For KISS it was movies and a Tour/Theme Park concept... and solo albums and discs from other artists he tried to use the formula on that got pulped in their millions.

When Vince does WRESTLING he does it better than anyone...when he tries to do ANYTHING else it very rarely even has moderate success. Even WWE films has had to change it's model at least 3 times.

Now Vince is the Col. Parker, who wants to sell his client/business to the highest bidder eventually...for Vince I am sure this is Disney.. he wants to use his "Billonaire status" to take it private and then get that cushy George Lucas money for all the IP by selling out. Of course they make him a director/life president of the company like Kevin Feige at Marvel but you have Cena and the like EVERYWHERE... Pixar movies replacing the need for wrestlers who cost money... endless toys and cartoons and ways to sell your IP... all = dollars for Vince and he would join that group of guys like Lucas who "made it" to Multi-Billionaire status off but can enjoy it.