Something I Noticed

[Eternal Dragon]

Okay, so today I was sitting down to watch WWE at MSG Classics- right. So there I was, with my water and pretzel sticks (yummy), and so I started watching the show. The first hour of WWE at MSG Classics, showed old matches from 1988. They had Randy Savage, Ted Dibiase, Bret Hart, a tag team match, Bad News Brown, etc. I noitced that while I was watching some of the matches, I got bored very easily. As much as I tried to pay attention to the matches- I couldn't!! I felt bad since, you don't usually get to see old matches for free. But, than when the second hour started, they were showing a Raw episode from 2002. I completely got into this, and was very intersted in the matches. In this hour they had Triple H, Undertaker, Tommy Dreamer, Jeff Hardy, Chris Jericho, RVD, and others. I was the complete oppisote this time- my eyes were glued to the TV, and I was paying attention to what was happening, and who was wrestling who.

Now, I have a few ideas for why I'm like this. By watching older matches from the 80's and 70's, I noticed that they have a slower pace in the match, more methodical- you could say that. And not as many crazy moves, that we saw in the 90's. Not that that's a bad thing- you can be a traditional wrestler and still be great. But, the episode of Raw in 2002, seemed faster in a way, and more exciting. That could also be because I didn't recognize some of the names or angles in the 1988 episode- but, I'm not sure about that. Or it could be my age, I missed a lot of the wrestling in the 80's and 70's because I wasn't born yet and didn't experiance that era. Does anyone else feel like this when they watch old matches- and why??

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[Jaycobo]

Well yea, they had much "worse" matches back in the day. Like, the first wwf champ won with a powerbomb or something. Nowadays if they do that to you your up in about three seconds.

 

[Eternal Dragon]

I don't think they were worse than they are now- there were plent of good wrestlers back in the day. It's just how we see it, through our eyes. Just like we're accostmed to a certain type or speed of wrestling.

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Dragon

 

[PauLwaLL]

You see.. Thats why I say I like wrestling better now... Because its more fast paced and more crazy matches... The only time wrestling back then was intresting to me was gimmick matches... But there still are some classics that are good..

 

[peopleschamp]

I don’t believe that matches were “worse” back then, only standards have changed over time. Back in the 70’s the fans would probably consider an hour-long marathon between Harley Race-Dory Funk Jr. a classic, but today it’d probably be an effective cure for insomnia. So it’s really to judge a match by from another era by today’s standards. It all depends on what we’re “conditioned” to watch and our expectations of what a match should be. It’s pretty much like that in all sports. A lot of sports have evolved where today’s athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger than ever. Wrestling is no exception.

 

[Eternal Dragon]

I'm trying to myself in the shoes of people that watched it back than- before a lot of moves discoverd. But, I can't- though I still want to apprecaite wrestling back than.

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Dragon

 

[justinsayne]

I agree there are only a few back in the day matches ive seen that kept me watching, mostly matches featureing guys like rickey steamboat, bret hart, and randy savage
i didn't watch much wrestling back then though, wasn't allowed to

I did watch Hogans cartoon though

 

[peopleschamp]

I'm trying to myself in the shoes of people that watched it back than- before a lot of moves discoverd. But, I can't- though I still want to apprecaite wrestling back than.

Flames Out
Dragon

It really is a hard thing to do. Perhaps it is easier to appreciate these older matches when you get a better understanding of the history of pro wrestling, and how these guys broke new grounds from those came before them. If you think matches from the 70's were slow, imagine what it was like in the 20's or 30's. New grounds are constantly being broken in wrestling, and when you understand how much wrestling has evolved over time, it makes it easier to appreciate wrestling from all eras.

 

[wotto]

i was watching the best of SNME video tape i found in my garage the other night.. and i was really bored watching it.. however when i watched Summerslam 2000 the night after i was hooked.. IMO it was partly down to the gimmicks.. and how some gimmicks can evolve and some cant.. i used to love Brutus Beefcake when i was a kid.. but if i see him on an episode of raw now i would turn off.. the only gimmicks that would have survived from the 80s and early 90s are the ones that are extensions of peoples pesonality not ones where u give a guy a pair of sisccors and tell him ' go out there and act like a barber ' it was fine back in the day when we were kids cos that was our mentality but now we've grown up its just all a bit silly.. thats the reason the Red Rooster never was and never will be world champion.. lol.. plus he sucked.. But my most important point is that these days in WWE they are more bothered as to weather the gimmick gets over with the crowd than the actual skills of the wrestler using the gimmick.

example.. john cena.. decent gimmick that gets over with the crowd.. poor wrestler!!

agree or disagree ?

 

[Eternal Dragon]

I think the poor wrestler- good gimmick thing is a consistant thing in the WWE- just look a the Ulitmate Warrior. I appreciate that wrestlers back in the day really revolutionized Pro wrestling today, but that doesn't stop me from being completely bored in the matches. I think it is all about what you're used to.

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Dragon

 

[peopleschamp]

I think the poor wrestler- good gimmick thing is a consistant thing in the WWE- just look a the Ulitmate Warrior. I appreciate that wrestlers back in the day really revolutionized Pro wrestling today, but that doesn't stop me from being completely bored in the matches. I think it is all about what you're used to.

Flames Out
Dragon

Unfortunately, that is the double-edge sword when it comes to raising the standards in professional wrestling. While matches have gotten more exciting over time, it makes it hard to go back and appreciate the matches that were competed under a “lesser” standard. Many people criticizes today’s product for being boring mostly because ultimately they pushed things too far during The Attitude Era that they hit a wall; and they have no choice but to tone things down to a “lesser” standard. For me, the best way to appreciate the older matches is to simply understand the historical significance of a particular match (if the match indeed has historical significance).

 

[wotto]

heres a good example.. when undertaker first come on the scene.. we was lead to belive he was an actual 'undertaker' but his gimmick evolved into a more dark, satanic character.. he lost the body bags that he used to put opponents in and just concerntrated more on the dark personality.

 

[Eternal Dragon]

So kind of like putting something of the past in it's historical context. I can understand that, it's kind of like comparing old movies to old wrestling. A lot of people don't appreciate the graphics and such that they had in the older movies- because it was still very amateur and in the works, and I think the same can go for wrestling. When I watch the old matches, I guess you could call wrestling- still in the works. Or in a different era. Maybe I should stop comparing matches from the present to the past, because I know they're practically impossible to match up.

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[realblackhart]

it depends on the match as well as the wrestler. the standard is definatley higher now but at the same time, Bulldog vs Bret, Bret vs Perfect, Steamboat vs Savage and those matches like that don't bore me. Id depends on the wrestler and the pace of the match too. I think that if you were around to see them has a large deal to do with if you're entertained by it or not

 

[greenbeast95]

I agree the older matches are much different than today. I believe it's because the entire art of wrestling has changed dramatically. Interviews, backstage segments, and especially the matches themselves are much more fast-paced and in your face to keep your attention. How many times do we here "boring" chants in a crowd when the action isn't fast enough. As a society we're becoming dependent on getting things as fast and easy as possible, and we really don't take the time to realize the work and effort that goes into things. Wrestling is still an art, and it really ticks me off that people chant "boring" these days. Unless of course you have Foley and Flair debating eachother. Shheeeesh.

Here's a thought on the flipside: Think of the wrestlers from the 70's and
80's that were considered the best and groundbreaking, like Superstar Billy Graham, Ric Flair, The Horsemen, Ricky Steamboat, Rick Rude, etc. What would these guys be like in todays wrestling world? Would their style be pushed to even higher levels? Would they outshine what's out there presently? Or would they not hold a candle? It's definately debateable!

 

[Eternal Dragon]

That's great insight. I get that- everything changes as time goes on. Like would Stone Cold Steve Austin have been that popular in the 70's or 80's- would DX be big back than?? Probably not, because people's thoughts, and society and how they view things always change- and I guess wrestling changed with that. The average person, wrestling fan probably moves at a fast pace, and wrestling has been fitted to that. Audiences are different, wrestlers are different- pretty much everything because the times are different. That can be a good thing, but it's hard to relate back to the old wrestling matches and actually appreciate them for what they are worth. Everything has its pros and cons.

I notice a lot of different things that changed in the WWF/E has time went on. Everything from a wrestlers physique to the actual matches. Just like our past is defined by decades- so is wrestling.

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The best way to watch old wrestling now is to look at the 10 year cycle... I have written many articles about this over the years and it is always there...

Compare a match to where the biz was 10 years before or after it, to the year and then you find striking similarities... in 1996, Nash and Hall left WWE, Steve Austin broke through and guys like Sid returned and hit big in 2006, Jericho and Angle have gone, guys like Finlay and Umaga have returned and hit big and others like Edge and Rey have broken through.

If you look at matches and say, who is playing that role in WWE now... then it gives a context to watching the match, and it becomes easier to adapt to the pacing etc

 

[Eternal Dragon]

It's kind of a rotating cycle, with new wrestlers going into a different position. Just like you see reacurring gimmicks and angles- the same can be said for who's at the top in the WWE. I've noticed that usually the guy on top- he reflects he public in a way. Kind of going back to society changes as well as wrestling. In 30 years, people might find what we watch boring- just like what I think it is in the 70's and 80's.
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Dragon

 

[mr. krinkle]

you have to keep in mind that in the 90's, once the Monday Night Wars started, the pace had to be picked up...before all of that youre matches were longer, or you would see a big star squashing a jobber on Superstars...then Raw came and Nitro followed we start getting what would previously be PPV matches every Monday...so what i am saying is back in the day it was a big deal to see maybe Bad News Brown face Jake Roberts...slow paced or not...just seeing them in the ring together was a treat...once the shine of having 2 superstars square off in every match wore off, they started having to move quicker, or use shock tactics to make things interesting...its funny how that has become the standard, because i am not sure were they can go from there

 

[Eternal Dragon]

You also have to think about different styles of wrestling being introduced. The 90's was full of CW's and fast paced wrestling coming from international wrestlers- and I guess that slowly molded into what wrestling is today. I also noticed that it takes more work to satisfy people in a gimmick match now a days- in the old ones that I was watching a little blood was big but, now when we see gimmick matches, it needs to be brutal to be entertaining.


Flames Out
Dragon

 

[Flokiyo]

I can kind of watch the older wrestling because I'm 19 going on 20, and I was borin in '86. I'm able to watch stuff from 70's because it shows people that are big names now, but not big names back then. I saw Ric Flair and Leapin' Lenny Polffo (Macho Man's brother) vs. Road Warrior Animal, and Road Warrior Hawk, and the fans were right into it, and it was fantastic. It seemed so alive in the arena. I like todays wrestling too, but not as much because WWE seems to be too commercialistic now. They lost touch with originality. I don't mind seeing John Cena vs. Edge once in a while, but not for almost a year straight.

Vince does these storylines for marketing purposes. back in the day, the did them for the interest of the fans.

And that is my two cents!

 

[Eternal Dragon]

I can watch older matches from the 90's and still love them- because that's when wrestling became a lot more fast paced in my opinion. In the 80's, I noticed that they kind of made a wrestler seem super human- like Hulk Hogan or the Ultimate Warrior, or Randy Savage, and people seemed to love that- but who knows if that would work out now?

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[Uncle Sam]

I watched some of the 80's matches that my brother had borrowed to him about ten years ago (whoever borrowed him those is going be p*ssed!) and nearly fell asleep, I'd say it's the style of wrestling and the pace of matches. For example, I watched HBK vs the Hitman at Mania 12 the other day and even though the storyline was very unfamiliar to me, as I only started watching wrestling around Mania 15 as I was uniterested and probably too young before, I fell in love with the match and was enticed by every move.

 

[Flokiyo]

I started watching wrestling as soon as I could watch television. I love watching wrestling, although I used to think it was real, but now know it's fake . I like watching it for the fact that these guys (and gals) do great jobs making things look like the hurt. Some of them don't make it looks like it hurts that much (John Cena, Batista) but over-all... I like watching the new guys in there trying to make a name for themselves because they put more heart in there than the older guys do. They are doing their best to make a name for themself, and the older guys already have their name out there, so they tend to try and get by, by talking trash.

 

[Eternal Dragon]

I think everyone here loves to watch wrestleing- and there's always that one moment that really drew you in but, when I watch matches back in the 80's and 70's- well a great match back than doesn't have as much as affect on me as if I watched a classic from the 90's. I've always been interested in fast paced, high flying, type of wrestling- and besides for a few name it's hard to find back in the day.

Flames Out
Dragon