So, opinions can't be wrong huh Mr. Raven's Epitaph....

[Coco]

You didn't win anything, it was a pointless arguement.

Speaking of which...

 

[Slyfox696]

Tasty,

I'm replying from my iPhone, so I can't do my usual quoting, plus I'm going to give a shorter answer. But I agree that we must have different definitions for the word "opinion", however we differ on who is using the correct definition.

But think about what you're sayin for a moment. You're saying that if someone looks at evidence, and from that evidence draws completely erroneous conclusion, then that statement doesn't exist? How can the be? If I say the Tampa Bay Devil Rays are the most prestigious when asked for my opinion, when it is clear the Rays are not, then your answer is that my answer is nothing, it doesn't exist? That my feelings on the subject do not exist? That's just absurd. If it is my opinion te Rays are the most prestigious, then I am welcome to that opinion, as it would be based upon my own conclusions drawn from evidence and personal experience. It would be completely wrong, of course, but it would still be my opinion.

Finally, use this thread as the best example. I'm stating that opinions can be wrong, and you're tellin me my opinion is wrong, because opinions cannot be wrong. Does your own hypocrisy not prove me correct?

 

[Pepe Silvia]

Incorrect, while meaning pretty much the same thing, might be a better word to use than wrong in this instance

 

[HBK-aholic]

Tasty,

I'm replying from my iPhone, so I can't do my usual quoting, plus I'm going to give a shorter answer. But I agree that we must have different definitions for the word "opinion", however we differ on who is using the correct definition.

But think about what you're sayin for a moment. You're saying that if someone looks at evidence, and from that evidence draws completely erroneous conclusion, then that statement doesn't exist? How can the be? If I say the Tampa Bay Devil Rays are the most prestigious when asked for my opinion, when it is clear the Rays are not, then your answer is that my answer is nothing, it doesn't exist? That my feelings on the subject do not exist? That's just absurd. If it is my opinion te Rays are the most prestigious, then I am welcome to that opinion, as it would be based upon my own conclusions drawn from evidence and personal experience. It would be completely wrong, of course, but it would still be my opinion.

Finally, use this thread as the best example. I'm stating that opinions can be wrong, and you're tellin me my opinion is wrong, because opinions cannot be wrong. Does your own hypocrisy not prove me correct?

LOL this is the thing that amused me last time.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

Slyfox and Tasty probably just killed Doug Crashin.

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

Slyfox and Tasty probably just killed Doug Crashin.

I love it actually. I started something that I didn't intend to start but I love it.

 

[Macca]

It's my opinion that everyone who has posted in this thread has better things to do on a Wednesday then this.

 

[Slyfox696]

It's my opinion that everyone who has posted in this thread has better things to do on a Wednesday then this.

Definitely. But it was a Tuesday when we did it, and no one has anything better to do on a Tuesday.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

Very fitting that the most intelligent thread in the cage was made by Doug.

 

[Tastycles]

Tasty,

I'm replying from my iPhone, so I can't do my usual quoting, plus I'm going to give a shorter answer. But I agree that we must have different definitions for the word "opinion", however we differ on who is using the correct definition.

But think about what you're sayin for a moment. You're saying that if someone looks at evidence, and from that evidence draws completely erroneous conclusion, then that statement doesn't exist? How can the be? If I say the Tampa Bay Devil Rays are the most prestigious when asked for my opinion, when it is clear the Rays are not, then your answer is that my answer is nothing, it doesn't exist? That my feelings on the subject do not exist? That's just absurd. If it is my opinion te Rays are the most prestigious, then I am welcome to that opinion, as it would be based upon my own conclusions drawn from evidence and personal experience. It would be completely wrong, of course, but it would still be my opinion.

Finally, use this thread as the best example. I'm stating that opinions can be wrong, and you're tellin me my opinion is wrong, because opinions cannot be wrong. Does your own hypocrisy not prove me correct?

Hats off for writing that much on an iPhone, I can barely write a text on it before I get bored.

Anyway, what you are describing is a belief. You believe the Tampa Bay Devil Rays are a better team, which may well be wrong objectively, but its your prejudices that have formed that conclusion, not the interpretation of facts. An opinion is a subjective take on an objective premise or premises. It can, and usually does, incorporate beliefs into that subjective overview, but it has to include objectivity in there, otherwise it is a belief.

I wouldn't say that what you are describing is an opinion. There's no real subjectivity from either of us, we just have slightly different definitions - which we are treating as facts, and therefore drawing different conclusions. If I had the same definition of opinion as you have, I'd agree with you, and I'm sure the reverse is true.

 

[Goliath Uterus]

If I had the same definition of opinion as you have, I'd agree with you, and I'm sure the reverse is true.

Sly's definition is incorrect though, he just doesn't know the difference between a false statement and an opinion.

 

[Slyfox696]

Anyway, what you are describing is a belief. You believe the Tampa Bay Devil Rays are a better team, which may well be wrong objectively, but its your prejudices that have formed that conclusion, not the interpretation of facts. An opinion is a subjective take on an objective premise or premises. It can, and usually does, incorporate beliefs into that subjective overview, but it has to include objectivity in there, otherwise it is a belief.

And, as I said, I'm sure I could find something to support that opinion, in some way, but in the end, it would still be wrong.


To give another example, one that you can probably relate better with. If I asked the question of you, "In your opinion, which wrestler is the top guy on Raw right now?", there would be many guys you could give an answer for. You could say Cena, because he's the biggest money maker, or Barrett because he's top heel, or Orton because he was the champion or even Miz because he is the champion. You could even say Triple H, for obvious reasons. There would be many possible opinions which could be justified.

But who you could NOT say would be Vladimir Kozlov. In this example, there are many different opinions which could be correct, as there is no one definitive correct answer. But if, in your opinion, you say Kozlov, you would be wrong, because there is no way you can say he's the top wrestler on Raw.

Sly's definition is incorrect though, he just doesn't know the difference between a false statement and an opinion.

No, I most certainly do, and I think if you had a wit of intelligence, you'd understand that I was correct. You would also understand an opinion can take the form of a false statement, which is my point. Hell, do you even know what the word "statement" means?

Why the fuck are you even in this conversation? You realize the more you talk, the stupider you make yourself look, correct? You better let Tasty continue this battle, and least he has a chance to score points. All you're doing is repeating the same thing ad nauseam, and really hurting Tasty's much more intelligent responses.

 

[Tastycles]

And, as I said, I'm sure I could find something to support that opinion, in some way, but in the end, it would still be wrong.


To give another example, one that you can probably relate better with. If I asked the question of you, "In your opinion, which wrestler is the top guy on Raw right now?", there would be many guys you could give an answer for. You could say Cena, because he's the biggest money maker, or Barrett because he's top heel, or Orton because he was the champion or even Miz because he is the champion. You could even say Triple H, for obvious reasons. There would be many possible opinions which could be justified.

But who you could NOT say would be Vladimir Kozlov. In this example, there are many different opinions which could be correct, as there is no one definitive correct answer. But if, in your opinion, you say Kozlov, you would be wrong, because there is no way you can say he's the top wrestler on Raw.

I may not be familiar with baseball, but I do understand what you are trying to say. In this example, thinking that Vladimir Kozlov is on top would be a belief, because its not based in any objectivity, just subjective preference. Thinking that Triple H is on top would be a valid opinion, it may be influenced by factors similar to those of picking Kozlov, but there is still objective basis for it.

The difference in our argument is that I wouldn't consider what you call a "wrong opinion" to be an opinion. Essentially, if there is objective proof that it A is not true, than you cannot logically reason that A is the inference to the best explanation of the information, therefore it is not a valid opinion. Someone may say "In my opinion, A is the best explanation", and you're right to say that they are wrong, but they are not voicing a true opinion, just a belief.

 

[Slyfox696]

The difference in our argument is that I wouldn't consider what you call a "wrong opinion" to be an opinion. Essentially, if there is objective proof that it A is not true, than you cannot logically reason that A is the inference to the best explanation of the information, therefore it is not a valid opinion. Someone may say "In my opinion, A is the best explanation", and you're right to say that they are wrong, but they are not voicing a true opinion, just a belief.

Essentially, you're equating an invalid opinion to what I call a wrong opinion, and that an invalid opinion technically does not exist, it instead gets shifted to be called "a belief".

So basically, you're trying to sidestep saying something is a "wrong opinion", when you basically agree there is such thing as a wrong opinion. And while I'm not the kind of person to go running for a dictionary to prove a point either, I will this time, because it should end the discussion.

1.
a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2.
a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion

Notice that ALL opinions can be a belief. To say that only "wrong" opinions are a belief is erroneous, as all opinions have the potential to be a belief, if felt strongly enough. Thus, you cannot shove "wrong opinions" into the belief pile, while leaving "credible opinions" as opinions. If that makes sense.




On a side note, out of curiosity, when you do a google search on this subject, it's clear we're not the first to have this debate. It seems a lot of people have an opinion on this topic. Some of them happen to have the wrong opinion.

 

[Tastycles]

I don't know. I'm probably looking at this with my philosopher's hat on a little too much - you spend a long time differentiating between the three. I suppose my closing statement on the matter is for you to find an actual false opinion that someone actually holds rather than the ridiculous ones you used to illustrate your point, because I think you'll struggle. Apparently I can be arsed to type on my iPhone...

 

[Mighty NorCal]

This absolutley can NOT still be going....

 

[Slyfox696]

I don't know. I'm probably looking at this with my philosopher's hat on a little too much - you spend a long time differentiating between the three. I suppose my closing statement on the matter is for you to find an actual false opinion that someone actually holds rather than the ridiculous ones you used to illustrate your point, because I think you'll struggle. Apparently I can be arsed to type on my iPhone...

iPhones are great but limited when it comes to forums. As far as someone holding opinions that are so silly they are false, just spend some time in the wrestling sections. I've called many of them in my time here.

 

[ZeroVX]

This absolutley can NOT still be going....

The difference is that it's now an actual debate, rather than just a one-sided literary bitchslapping.

 

[Xemmy]

The difference is that it's now an actual debate, rather than just a one-sided literary bitchslapping.

I've always enjoyed those....