MINISTRYrising
Championship Contender
So should he have been champion. Razor Ramon had a great look and was really over with the fans. He had some great feuds while in wwe with guys like Shawn Michaels. But should he have become WWE Champion.
Should Razor Ramon have been WWE Champion?
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roethlisberger78
Pre-Show Stalwart
I'm gonna say no on this one and it has nothing to do with the talent that he had because he had tons of it and was majorly over with the fans. The no comes from the fact of where he is now addiction wise and I'm gonna say they seen some of it going on back then also probably no where near as bad as now but they seen some things they didnt like and didnt trust him enough to put the big title on him and let him be the man of the company.
2Sweet_4Life
Oasis Rule the World.
He should of been champion,there wasn't many big names around in 94/95 only Taker,Sid,HBK,Nash,Bret. He has Mic skills, In-ring skills and the look. Greatest wrestler never to be world champ.
Lowdown
Ooh baby I like it roooaaaaw!
He could've been champ due to all the skills he had in the ring and on the mic. Yes, he was battling addictions back when he was at his peak, but I doubt he would've been the first champion to have said addictions during his reign. I also think Vince was trying to give regular heavyweight stars like Bret the strap during the New Generation era. WWF was full of big guys like Taker, Nash, Sid and Yokozuna, so Razor probably would've been lost in that shuffle.
Was Scott Hall good in the Ring? Yes, was he good on the Mic? Yes, but as Razor Ramon was Scott Hall Championship material? No. In that era where gimmicks ran rampant It was hard to take Razor Ramon as a viable contender for the title as a heel, as a face was when Ramon IC champ was when he was most popular, but again I believe the gimmick held him back, much like Diesel held Nash back in reality... If Vince would've made Razor Scott Hall and gave him the freedom he had in WCW he would've been a more likely champion. But again in WCW he was overshadowed by Hogan, Nash and stuck in the tag title picture, but was more over then Nash in the beginning IMO, so as Razor? No, if he had been himself? Yes
THTRobtaylor
Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist
Razor nor Scott Hall were WWF title material at any point. WWF clearly had ideas of that nature when heel Razor debuted in late 92, but it soon became clear that the character was not working as a heel and had no real "edge". The feud with The Kid did get Razor over far more successfully than he could have done as a heel and the first 2 times he won the IC title he was the right guy for it. Later he settled into the Kliq and used politicking to get the IC belt more than his fair share, probably cos he knew he'd never get the big one there, and of course he was the first to tell Vince he was off to WCW.
Scott Hall of the AWA was a strong worker but once he hit the Diamond Mine in WCW he became increasingly like the 5 spot machine... he was the most Cena like worker of his day.
I haven't factored in his substance issues but in reality once they started calling him "Last Call" Scott Hall you knew his career was never going any higher. It's like a lot of the people on these lists... Did Hall deserve it over a Hennig, Rude, Bulldog or Jake? No way... if he'd have got one and the others didn't then it would be more tragic than the mess Hall made of his life.
Scott Hall of the AWA was a strong worker but once he hit the Diamond Mine in WCW he became increasingly like the 5 spot machine... he was the most Cena like worker of his day.
I haven't factored in his substance issues but in reality once they started calling him "Last Call" Scott Hall you knew his career was never going any higher. It's like a lot of the people on these lists... Did Hall deserve it over a Hennig, Rude, Bulldog or Jake? No way... if he'd have got one and the others didn't then it would be more tragic than the mess Hall made of his life.
No Count Pup
Just call on me brother
If WWE was willing to make Jeff Hardy a three time world champion, they should have been willing to give Razor at least one reign. The Bad Guys stock was sky high in the mid 90s. The NWO angle would not have been as over without Scott Hall. It was cool to see Nash, and the Hogan heel turn was interesting; but it was the debut of Hall on Nitro in May of 1996 that first had the wrestling world abuzz. He was the straw that stirred the drink; he was the "attitude" of the NWO. Hogan and Nash were the "establishment" main event talent of the group, but Hall made the NWO "cool."
If Hall could be so instrumental in the NWO's success, its reasonable to ascertain that he would have replicated similar success if given a main event, world title push in WWE. The WWE fans loved Razor Ramon and they wanted to see him hold the WWE Championship. They liked him so much they were willing to follow him to WCW.
In hindsight, its important to consider this: the risk that WWE faced in 1997 of closing its doors far outweighed the risk that Razor Ramon would somehow embarrass them as world champion. Vince McMahon should have given Hall the money and world title he deserved in 1996 because by letting Hall leave for WCW, McMahon almost lost the farm.
If Hall could be so instrumental in the NWO's success, its reasonable to ascertain that he would have replicated similar success if given a main event, world title push in WWE. The WWE fans loved Razor Ramon and they wanted to see him hold the WWE Championship. They liked him so much they were willing to follow him to WCW.
In hindsight, its important to consider this: the risk that WWE faced in 1997 of closing its doors far outweighed the risk that Razor Ramon would somehow embarrass them as world champion. Vince McMahon should have given Hall the money and world title he deserved in 1996 because by letting Hall leave for WCW, McMahon almost lost the farm.
I think if Scott Hall had stayed with the WWF in 1996 and on, then he would've gotten at least one title reign. He had all the tools: look, size, charima, skill. Sure his gimmick was way over the top, but so was everyone else's besides Bret Hart. WWF only deviated from the heavy gimmicks in response to the nWo, which probably wouldn't have happened (or at least made the same impact) without Hall, so if he stayed, then Vince would've probably stuck with the gimmicks and Razor would've fitted into the main event scene just fine.
I loved Razor when I was a kid. Loved his matches with HBK. He was a great IC champ, but even then I just didn't see him as a World Champion. He had the look, was great on the mic, and could put on a good match, but I didn't look at him as the main event. maybe in WCW, but even then he took a backseat to Hogan and Nash. I agree to with the poster that said if he stayed with WWE after 96 then he might have got a run.
The Fabulous Rougeau's
Championship Contender
From the time Razor debuted up until he left the WWE in 96 this is how the title picutre looked.
Bret Hart: Once Razor debuted till Wrestlemaina IX
Yokozuna: Wrstlemania IX-WrestleMania IX
Hulk Hogan: WrestleMania IX-King of the Ring 93
Yokozuna: King of the Ring 93-WrestleMania X
Bret Hart: WrestleMania X-Survivor Series 94
Bob Backlund: Survivor Series 94-House show days later
Diesel: Days after Survivor Series 94-Survivor Seires 95
Bret Hart: Survivor Seires 95-WrestleMania XII
Shawn Michaels: WrestleMania XII-Razor leaving WWE.
While I do feel Razor did enough and was over enough to be the WWE champ during his time their its tough to find a spot for him. From the time he debuted thru 93 he was used as a top heel, but never was or would have been a threat for the title. By the end of 93 he started his face turn and by 94 he was a firmy established face and probably the 2nd biggest face in the company at that time behind Bret. The problem is that Bret just won the title back in 94 and was in line for a nice run. That takes me to the end of 94 and Razor's best chance at winning the title. Instead of Diesel winning the title after Survivor Series, it could have been Razor. Since he was the IC champ at the time he would have had to drop that title and thus we would have had a IC title touney, instead of the tag team one because in this scenario, Shawn and Diesel wouldn't drop the titles. Instead, Diesel and Shawn would remain heels and tag champs heading into the Rumble where Shawn would not enter #1 and the Rumble would come down to he and Diesel at the end with Diesel winning the Rumble. This would result in Shawn turning on Diesel, costing them the tag titles and thus turning Diesel face seeting up a face v face Razor v Diesel title match at WrestleMania XI. With both guys entering as faces, WWE could use the time between Rumble and Mania to gather who has a stronger backing and whichever man it is would get the victory. This way if Diesel won I think his title reign would have been more effective as he would have been seen as a better champ having won the title at Mania. If Razor retained that would mean he was more over than Diesel and he too would have had a sucessfull run.
Either way, I believe things return to the way they were by Survivor Series 95 with Bret winning the title (or possibly sooner like at SummerSlam) and go on to take on Shawn at WrestleMania XII after Shawn would win his (in this scenario) 1st Rumble as the 1st entrant (always thought the 96 Rumble should have been where Shawn won at #1 to give him more momentum heading into WrestleMania XII).
So, I do believe Razor deserved a title run back then. But after looking at how everything played out, it seems the only time for him to win the title would have been after Bret dropped it to Backlund at Survivor Series 94.
Bret Hart: Once Razor debuted till Wrestlemaina IX
Yokozuna: Wrstlemania IX-WrestleMania IX
Hulk Hogan: WrestleMania IX-King of the Ring 93
Yokozuna: King of the Ring 93-WrestleMania X
Bret Hart: WrestleMania X-Survivor Series 94
Bob Backlund: Survivor Series 94-House show days later
Diesel: Days after Survivor Series 94-Survivor Seires 95
Bret Hart: Survivor Seires 95-WrestleMania XII
Shawn Michaels: WrestleMania XII-Razor leaving WWE.
While I do feel Razor did enough and was over enough to be the WWE champ during his time their its tough to find a spot for him. From the time he debuted thru 93 he was used as a top heel, but never was or would have been a threat for the title. By the end of 93 he started his face turn and by 94 he was a firmy established face and probably the 2nd biggest face in the company at that time behind Bret. The problem is that Bret just won the title back in 94 and was in line for a nice run. That takes me to the end of 94 and Razor's best chance at winning the title. Instead of Diesel winning the title after Survivor Series, it could have been Razor. Since he was the IC champ at the time he would have had to drop that title and thus we would have had a IC title touney, instead of the tag team one because in this scenario, Shawn and Diesel wouldn't drop the titles. Instead, Diesel and Shawn would remain heels and tag champs heading into the Rumble where Shawn would not enter #1 and the Rumble would come down to he and Diesel at the end with Diesel winning the Rumble. This would result in Shawn turning on Diesel, costing them the tag titles and thus turning Diesel face seeting up a face v face Razor v Diesel title match at WrestleMania XI. With both guys entering as faces, WWE could use the time between Rumble and Mania to gather who has a stronger backing and whichever man it is would get the victory. This way if Diesel won I think his title reign would have been more effective as he would have been seen as a better champ having won the title at Mania. If Razor retained that would mean he was more over than Diesel and he too would have had a sucessfull run.
Either way, I believe things return to the way they were by Survivor Series 95 with Bret winning the title (or possibly sooner like at SummerSlam) and go on to take on Shawn at WrestleMania XII after Shawn would win his (in this scenario) 1st Rumble as the 1st entrant (always thought the 96 Rumble should have been where Shawn won at #1 to give him more momentum heading into WrestleMania XII).
So, I do believe Razor deserved a title run back then. But after looking at how everything played out, it seems the only time for him to win the title would have been after Bret dropped it to Backlund at Survivor Series 94.
Hollywood Naitch
The current reigning and defending
As a performer I don't see a problem with Razor Ramon having a run with the WWE title. He was over enough, good enough in the ring and had the size and look that Vince liked, as well as being one of the most charismatic guys on the roster. I also think Davey Boy Smith should have had a run with the strap but hey, just my opinion.
I can see the argument for keeping the belt of Scott due to his well known substance problems, and it would have been terrible news for the WWE if Hall had shown up in no fit condition to work when he was the World Champion, but Shawn Michaels was holding the belt while a raging drug addict, and steroid abuse was still popular with many of the roster, so I can't see that being a reason why Razor wouldnt have been given the belt...unless his problems were SO bad, far worse than Shawn's, and we never saw the extent of them until a few years later.
All I am saying is I would have enjoyed a Razor Ramon title run. I would also have enjoyed seeing Scott Hall hold the WCW title, but by then his demons had really taken over and he would have been far too unreliable for WCW to put the big belt on him.
I can see the argument for keeping the belt of Scott due to his well known substance problems, and it would have been terrible news for the WWE if Hall had shown up in no fit condition to work when he was the World Champion, but Shawn Michaels was holding the belt while a raging drug addict, and steroid abuse was still popular with many of the roster, so I can't see that being a reason why Razor wouldnt have been given the belt...unless his problems were SO bad, far worse than Shawn's, and we never saw the extent of them until a few years later.
All I am saying is I would have enjoyed a Razor Ramon title run. I would also have enjoyed seeing Scott Hall hold the WCW title, but by then his demons had really taken over and he would have been far too unreliable for WCW to put the big belt on him.
THTRobtaylor
Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist
The issue more than anything was how Hall was really the 3rd wheel of the Kliq. Nash was the big name and champ, Shawn the heir apparent and Triple H quickly came up on the rails behind him as "the next big thing". So Razor was to an extent coasting for much of 94-96 in WWE. He also balked at the Goldust feud which would have been a major factor in moving him into the main event had he stayed.
Razor was never getting the title, his work didn't merit it, even had he stayed. But perhaps most importantly, Scott's mentality of being happy to coast, be "part of the kliq" and their politicking is what cost him the most. The squeaky wheel got the grease in Shawn, the natural fit got his push in Nash and Triple H paid his dues, Hall was neither of these things, he was the slacker of the group.
Razor was never getting the title, his work didn't merit it, even had he stayed. But perhaps most importantly, Scott's mentality of being happy to coast, be "part of the kliq" and their politicking is what cost him the most. The squeaky wheel got the grease in Shawn, the natural fit got his push in Nash and Triple H paid his dues, Hall was neither of these things, he was the slacker of the group.
Rabbid Wolverine
Pre-Show Stalwart
Razor needed a character overhaul if he was going to be champion in WWE, he did have the attributes needed except for being a gimmick, the name Razor Ramon doesnt sound like a champion, a lot of names nowadays doesnt sound like champions but they're pulling at straws.
Maybe in WCW he could have had a run.... if they had ended the NWO at some point that made sense instead of bringing it back every 2 months.
Maybe in WCW he could have had a run.... if they had ended the NWO at some point that made sense instead of bringing it back every 2 months.
ShowStopper '97
The Icon That Can Still Go
I think part of it was his addictions. Sure, like someone else said, they all had their fun, but none of those guys (Bret, Yoko, Backlund, Diesel) had their addictions like Hall did. And HBK didn't become champ until Hall was already on his way out. And HBK was much closer to Vince and Vince knew HBK wasn't going anywhere.
But I do agree, that if he stayed in WWF longer, he probably would have held the title eventually. He was certainly talented enough.
But I do agree, that if he stayed in WWF longer, he probably would have held the title eventually. He was certainly talented enough.
I Heart Cena
Pre-Show Stalwart
Absolutely not,
I love The Bad Guy, don't get me wrong, but he didn't have the extra it factor to make him WWE Champ. IC, of course, but not the big kahuna.
I love The Bad Guy, don't get me wrong, but he didn't have the extra it factor to make him WWE Champ. IC, of course, but not the big kahuna.
I don't think Razor 92-96 in WWF was ever put in the right position to win the big one. However, he did put on some of the greatest IC Title matches of all time. He was as over as Diesel and HBK and Bret back in the day. He also went over Michaels and Nash plenty of times back then. I'm guessing (not out on a limb here) but it was the drugs that kept him from being WWF champ. He was as over as anyone for at least two years, if nothing else he deserved a main event at a ppv, even if it was an In Your House.
Baldy42179
Dark Match Jobber
If you stick with simply story lines and don't use current knowledge to judge, I think it was a shame that Scott Hall didn't become world champion. Once he turned Face and his music hit everyone was on their feet. His look and charisma were enough that he could have been a belivable champion.
Just Do It
Getting Noticed By Management
And you know this how? Were you backstage at the time? Anythign I've ever heard about Hall in the WWF is that he was hard working and helpful to those with talent.
I think he should have won it at some point.
As many other people said he had the ring work, he had the charisma and he had a good look.
It's hard to say if his addiction played a part in that decision because everything wasn't as known as it is now. As other people said Shawn and others were out doing stuff too so really for people saying no because of that I disagree.
The Fabulous Rougeau's time table of champions shows there wasn't much room for him to be champ but I'd argue they could have somehow worked in a reign around the time Nash was champ and not given him a nearly year long reign. It's not like Nash was generating massive profits or ratings or anything.
As many other people said he had the ring work, he had the charisma and he had a good look.
It's hard to say if his addiction played a part in that decision because everything wasn't as known as it is now. As other people said Shawn and others were out doing stuff too so really for people saying no because of that I disagree.
The Fabulous Rougeau's time table of champions shows there wasn't much room for him to be champ but I'd argue they could have somehow worked in a reign around the time Nash was champ and not given him a nearly year long reign. It's not like Nash was generating massive profits or ratings or anything.
P. Nut Butters
Who Lies in the Darkness
He could have and should have, but at the same time, he shouldn't.
Razor was the guy who could deliver in the mid-card. He was like what Chris Benoit would become through 2005 - 2007... the midcard guy that should be Main-Eventing but isn't. The primary reason, in my opinion is the same in both cases: In their tenure at that level there was never the right place for either of these guys to be mainstays in the main event.
If Razor had stayed in WWF - no doubt he would have become champion. Absolutely no doubt. But much like the distinction that RVD also carried for many years, I like the idea that Scott Hall was one of the greatest to never be the world champion.
In some ways, the idea of what he could have been like as champion is more prestigious than if he actually became champ.
Razor was the guy who could deliver in the mid-card. He was like what Chris Benoit would become through 2005 - 2007... the midcard guy that should be Main-Eventing but isn't. The primary reason, in my opinion is the same in both cases: In their tenure at that level there was never the right place for either of these guys to be mainstays in the main event.
If Razor had stayed in WWF - no doubt he would have become champion. Absolutely no doubt. But much like the distinction that RVD also carried for many years, I like the idea that Scott Hall was one of the greatest to never be the world champion.
In some ways, the idea of what he could have been like as champion is more prestigious than if he actually became champ.