Sheamus and Nigel: Why the double standard?

[Coco]

About a month ago, Nigel McGuinness made his TNA debut as Desmond Wolfe. This nobody, who most of the viewing audience had likely never seen before, came in and destroyed the would-be (in any logical world) top contender and biggest name in the company at this time, Kurt Angle, on several occasions heading into Turning Point. That's about all we got for build unless you count promos with lame catch-phrases and promos being played in a loop in the background during one of these beatdowns. One of the top matches at a PPV involved possibly THE top TNA wrestler vs. a man unproven at this level, built up by a that man just setting up random beat downs on Angle. Oh, and occasionly hitting a jobber with a clothesline.

This booking was praised heavily and TNA was put on a pedestal as the land of opprotunity for new stars.

Fast forward a month. John Cena is heading to a PPV to defend his belt against newcomer Sheamus who is just as untested on this stage as Nigel was at a high level in TNA. The average reception this month?

If you're a fan of squash matches accompanied by Cole and Lawler telling you nonstop that Sheamus is an unstoppable monster and that Cena's days as champ might be over, followed by Sheamus attacking Cena at the end of the night, you're going to love the next 3 weeks of Raw, because that's all we're going to get, outside of the obligatory tag team match that will be plugged like all hell for the first hour and a half of an episode before they run it as a main event that nobody tunes into. A desperate, pathetic, boring and annoying "shove this down their throats" technique that will ultimately fail for the WWE.

This is just one example.

Yet when Angle and Nigel had at it last month, the booking was praised despite Nigel having just as much of a chance of getting over as Sheamus does. What's changed? Sheamus has gone on a bit of a streak so he's set himself up as a semi-logical contender, thus I don't think the fact that this is a title match can be used to 100% explain the difference in how these angles are being received.

Is this simply smark favorite Nigel getting special treatment? What's wrong with this picture?

 

[The Unforgiven]

The 1 big difference is not thats its Desmond n Sheamus its thats its Angle n Cena. TNA lets Kurt lose. WWE hardly ever lets Superman Cena lose. Also the Wolfe-Angle fued isnt for the title. With the way Wolfe was beating Angle week after week it made you think Wolfe had a chance. There is no way Sheamus has any chance of beating Cena. WWE wont let their poster boy lose to a nobody. The fact that its for the title even makes the chance of Sheamus winning this go from 0.2% to 0.0%. Wolfe also has the strong cult following from ROH. Im not sure but i dont think Sheamus has anything like that.

 

[X]

What a stupid thread, no offense Coco. There is no double standard. The reason why people are overjoyed at Nigel getting pushed so quickly is because he's a FANTASTIC wrestler on the mic, in the ring, and has paid his dues for years destroying his body in the indies. Whereas Sheamus is mediocre on the mic, mediocre in the ring, and is only getting his push because he's Triple H's new buddy (lets not even try to deny that).

What's wrong with this picture? Nothing. Nigel is simply about a thousand times better than Sheamus in every single way imaginable, that's why Coco. That, and Nigel wasn't given a title shot. There is no double standard, people just enjoy wrestlers getting pushed that are actually fucking good over mediocre blobs of pale skin like Sheamus.

 

[Kenny Powers]

There isn't much difference except for the title being at stake for one. I think the majority of the IWC at least knew Nigel and praised him in ROH, and that's why he gets such praise even though he hasn't done anything else in TNA. Despite having a horrible gimmick and not having any significant matches on Impact, Nigel and Angle were praised.

I never really heard of Nigel or watched ROH before, but I did see that he had some great matches. I was worried about how he would mesh with TNA, but apparently everyone except for a few love him. I think Sheamus is just a different story because no one knows who he is except that he was on ECW. The only memorable thing he did was his feud with Goldust, who we haven't seen in weeks.

It is a double standard when you think about, but I think maybe the people who dislike Sheamus dislike the Big Man gimmick in general. I'm definitely one of those people. We have seen people pushed to the moon because they were big like Umaga, Khali, Snitsky, and Heidenrich. We have seen where it has ended because all men are no longer with WWE and Khali is kissing fat women on Smackdown now.

I think if it was Nigel that went to WWE and feuded with Cena, we would hear a different story. I guess there isn't much difference between Sheamus and Wolfe except their size and wrestling style. The two are the same age and have wrestled overseas for the same amount of time, but Nigel has more accomplishments via ROH. The reason CM Punk, Samoa Joe, and now Wolfe were praised so early was because of their Ring of Honor roots which Sheamus doesn't have.

I think it's good for both companies to push these two, but most will disagree since Sheamus hasn't really done anything of merit.

 

[ABMorales787]

Nigel McGuiness has competed in many independent promotions. His most famous work was in Ring Of Honor. Where he was ROH Pure Champion for a long time and World Champion for an astounding 545 days. Sheamus has also been wrestling for many years, however he wasn't as well exposed as Nigel/Wolfe was. TNA as well as WWE have seen for years (his ROH days) what he could do. Sheamus on the other hand when he arrived in the US he went straight to FCW. 2 years in FCW doesn't exactly equal 6 years in ROH. If Sheamus was as deserving of his straight to main event push as the one Nigel/Desmond is getting then why did WWE offer a straight to the main roster contract to Nigel and not Sheamus?

Another reason why Desmond/Angle is excusable and Sheamus/Cena is not, is because Nigel has had a lot of mic time. He has so far given great promos (minus the puns). Sheamus on the other hand... Never said 2 words. If you look at ring work Nigel also has that over Sheamus. He has had many phenominal matches in ROH against the likes of Colt Cabana, Bryan Danielson, Chris Hero and others. Sheamus... I don't know, he was in Europe most of his career.

Is Triple H really this high on the guy?

 

[Coco]

What a stupid thread, no offense Coco.

I don't believe you, so none taken.

There is no double standard. The reason why people are overjoyed at Nigel getting pushed so quickly is because he's a FANTASTIC wrestler on the mic, in the ring, and has paid his dues for years destroying his body in the indies. Whereas Sheamus is mediocre on the mic, mediocre in the ring, and is only getting his push because he's Triple H's new buddy (lets not even try to deny that).

How much of Sheamus' pre-WWE work have you seen?

This is what the average Nigel or Punk supporter would say to those unfamiliar with these relative newcomers, and I think Sheamus deserves the same benefit of the doubt you'd expect from a person who is unfamiliar with Punk and Nigel. At least give him the chance to have a match at a level where he can either sink or swim before damning him as nothing more than mediocore.

Naw, forget that. "He's new, pale, overpushed, large, doesn't do moonsaults, and is friends with Triple H?! KILL HIM!!!!"

What's wrong with this picture? Nothing. Nigel is simply about a thousand times better than Sheamus in every single way imaginable, that's why Coco.

Yet not every TNA fan knew this and had been exposed to Nigel. There was just as much of a chance of Nigel bombing as there is of Sheamus bombing.

Nigel may be better, but your average TNA fan didn't know that and still praised what was going on there as star building. It's unfair not to treat this Sheamus situation the same.

 

[X]

How much of Sheamus' pre-WWE work have you seen?

A good deal. He showed promise in Florida, but nothing overly impressive. He reminds me of a pale Chris Masters with more talent in the ring.

This is what the average Nigel or Punk supporter would say to those unfamiliar with these relative newcomers, and I think Sheamus deserves the same benefit of the doubt you'd expect from a person who is unfamiliar with Punk and Nigel. At least give him the chance to have a match at a level where he can either sink or swim before damning him as nothing more than mediocore.

Except Nigel and Punk have been wrestling in the public eye for much longer than Sheamus, and have a much, much larger body of work to familiarize yourself with. I've seen Sheamus' work in FCW, I've seen all of his work so far in WWE. He's still as mediocre as he was the first time I watched him.

Naw, forget that. "He's new, pale, overpushed, large, doesn't do moonsaults, and is friends with Triple H?! KILL HIM!!!!"

I could care less if he does moonsaults or about his size, but he certainly is overpushed. There are quite a few better candidates who deserve that push over Sheamus. His friendship with Triple H just seems a bit convenient considering his new massive push as well. Seriously, he's been wrestling for only a few months on ECW, and now he's going to be main eventing a PPV for the WWE title against John Cena. That doesn't seem a tad too soon? Not even Kurt Angle got that kind of treatment.

Yet not every TNA fan knew this and had been exposed to Nigel. There was just as much of a chance of Nigel bombing as there is of Sheamus bombing.

You seriously underrate the TNA fanbase then. The TNA fanbase is pretty much exclusively comprised of smarks who realize that TNA's entire foundation is based off of talent from ROH. You really don't think TNA fans knew who Nigel was? This is the same crowd that chants for backstage bookers to be fired. These aren't your WWE average wrestling fans.

Nigel may be better, but your average TNA fan didn't know that and still praised what was going on there as star building. It's unfair not to treat this Sheamus situation the same.

Yes, your average TNA fan most certainly knew who Nigel was. Who do you think watches TNA? Very, very different audience from the WWE audience.

 

[Blade]

I have to side with X on this one.

Nigel was one of the best wrestlers in a promotion full of good wrestlers. He put on tons of great matches and cut tonnes of good promos. The guy can wrestle and talk and there's no way he's gonna let TNA down, at least in the ring. That has been proven thanks to his match with Kurt Angle. TNA knows how talented he is, and they know he's got a cult following. If TNA want to start growing, they have to put on the best wrestling show they can. That includes letting Nigel go out there and put on the great matches he's known for. And Nigel wasn't going for the world title. He was going for a main eventer who's past his prime. Feuding with Angle didn't shoot Nigel straight to the top, it just put him on the map, something which Nigel is ready for.

Sheamus, on the other hand, is an unproven, mediocre big guy. I've seen his work in Florida and, obviously, his work in WWE. He's never shown any reason that he should be in the main event in the future, let alone now. Both Angle and Lesnar had to wait a few months longer than Sheamus, and they were both far more talented than he is. But he's got the Triple H backing, the same thing that led Randy Orton to being the youngest world heavyweight champion and Batista headlining Wrestlemania before either of them were ready. And this is the same case, Sheamus is gonna be in a WWE title match before he's ready.

 

[AJBradley]

Seriously, what do some of you REALLY want? I've personally enjoyed Sheamus in WWE more than Desmond in TNA. Does that mean Nigel isn't as good as Sheamus? Not necessarily. CM Punk has done quite well in WWE...Scotty Goldman didn't fare so well. Maybe I'm wrong, not having been exposed to ROH as much as most people have, but weren't Punk and Colt Cabana rather equal in ROH? Unfortunately it just doesn't matter how successful you were in previous organizations. Rare cases like Rob Van Dam in WWE where they had to accept their popularity, as RVD was in a World Title match probably even sooner than Sheamus. But even that was a one time match at the time and he was back to defending the hardcore title soon after.

Living near Memphis, TN I used to watch USWA and Power Pro Wrestling and Memphis Championship Wrestling very regularly. I would see Jerry Lawler and Brian Christopher (aka Grand Master Sexay) beating guys like Sid Vicious, Kane, Undertaker, Mark Henry, Ahmed Johnson, etc. on a consistent basis. Can anyone imagine a face Jerry Lawler vs a heel Bret Hart in the early 90's? However I understood why in WWF/E why Brian Christopher didn't walk in and beat Triple H for the Intercontinental Title while Rocky Maivia did. I hated it, but it obviously worked out for the best.

To everyone who is complaining about Sheamus getting this shot or insulting him or both...would you rather them just have John Cena vs Triple H.....again? John Cena vs Randy Orton and ruin everything they accomplished in the iron man match by making the stipulations just the typical meaningless rules we've grown accustomed to? Ruin what they've been building with Orton/Kofi? Miz? Swagger? Guys who Cena has faced already?

thinking about it now, Cena vs Kofi might've made a little sense. Kofi earning main event respect having a good match with Cena while Orton screws him over furthering their fued. Problem is, do you keep Orton off the ppv or just throw him in a random match?

 

[gd]

Nigel and Sheamus aren't really comparable, unless you were going talk about how they're both from the UK, which I suspected this to be about.

Anyway, Nigel has been a world champion before, albeit in ROH, still pretty big. He is better than Sheamus on the mic, better in the ring, and actually started out right into a big feud, not against Jamie Noble. When I first saw Nigel in TNA, I was immeadiately impressed. When I first saw Sheamus, it was more of a "meh" reaction. Sure, he's big and looks kinda different, but not much else about him that I like. Sure, he's not horrible, but he's beaten Jamie Noble and won a battle royal sneakily, and now he's facing Cena for the biggest title in the company. Much different and if there was a double standard, I don't see the reason for it.

 

[Remix]

The Republic of Ireland isnt part of the UK. Northern Ireland (where Sheamus isn't from) is though.

And in my opinion, the reason why TNA fans (or at least the ones here) arent bitching about McGuinness are because he's well known for being a great wrestler to anybody who watches ROH. Whereas Sheamus isnt well known. For anything. Ever.

 

[BladeRunner]

I'm for both of the guys for different reasons.

I think that people are just shitting on Sheamus because he's new and hasn't proven himself in their eyes. But how can he prove himself unless he's given a chance at something big? Catch 22.

But yeah someone was saying that the WWE marks and TNA marks have two different standards. And I definitely think this is true.

TNA marks tend to give newer wrestlers a bigger chance than WWE marks. I've noticed it over and over.

If you want to please the WWE marks, you really have to build a wrestler up for a long time before they'll accept someone. And that makes it hard for WWE to build up just about anybody.

 

[Miko]

lol this never even occured to me until I read the thread. It's a good point though, why is Sheamus shat on while Wolfe is heralded as some kind of hero? In my eyes they are in the same boat, just because one was in ROH for ages doesn't make much difference to me, he's in a top (in theory anyways) company now.

See I dont watch ROH, I've tried, god knows I've tried, but it's just so shit. Anyway, that puts me in the same position as millions of other wrestling fans (aka the vast majority), I have no idea who either guy is. So if I am gonna give Wolfe a chance, then I should be giving that Sheamus guy one too, despite the fact that Sheamus just looks funny, not even slightly intimidating, Wolfe may have a small cult following, but until he joined TNA he was still a nobody.

 

[hatehabsforever]

I agree 100% with COCO on this one, and with all due respect, I think many of those who are disagreeing with him are missing the point of the original post.

No one is debating whether Nigel is better than Sheamus, or vice versa. I think it is fairly obvious that Nigel is better than Sheamus in pretty much every category, but that's not the point.

The point is that to the vast majority of the audiences of WWE and even TNA, no one would know either one of these guys. I believe that most of the professional wrestling fans know little about ROH, any other indy promotions, or any of the developmental territories. Granted some do, and you have to respect their knowledge of the minor leagues. Most of the audience doesn't know a wrestler until he appears on the big stage, on TV, or at live events, in WWE or TNA. Quite honestly, if it weren't for this site, I wouldn't have had a clue who Nigel (or Danielson for that matter) were, I've never seen them wrestle and only base my opinion of them on what I read here.

So when Desmond Wolfe debuted on TNA, he was a virtual unknown, coming from nowhere to smack around one of the biggest names in the business. From nowhere to everyone except the IWC and the smarks who are knowledgeable of the minor leagues. (BTW, is the term "smarks" considered offensive, if so I apologize because I mean no offence by using it). And it was applauded.

Yet Sheamus comes from nowhere and his push is criticized. And he wasn't even as much from nowhere, in WWE terms, as Wolfe, as Sheamus was around ECW for a while and was on Raw for several weeks before this push, granted not a long time but enough for the average WWE to become familiar with him. It does seem a little inconsistent to me.

I do, however, question pushing Sheamus so fast for the title. Even if Wolfe had beaten Angle, he wouldn't have won the belt, whereas if Sheamus beats Cena (ha!), he will become WWE champion, leapfrogging over several more deserving guys in my opinion.

Personally, I don't think Sheamus's title shot is even going to happen. Someone is going to challenge him for his #1 contendership status and beat him prior to TLC, someone such as Kingston or DiBiase. But if I'm wrong and it does happen, it really shoudn't be criticized by the same guys who are applauding Desmond Wolfe.

Granted some guys are going to complain anyway, as no matter what happens, some guys, even some mods, are Chronic Complainers.

 

[X]

And I think you and several others are not in any way familiar with the TNA audience Habs. You seriously think the TNA audience didn't know who Nigel was? The TNA audience is NOT your average wrestling audience like the WWE, the only people who watch TNA are your hardcore wrestling fans and smarks, there's no "casual" wrestling fan that's tuning into TNA at this point (and their ratings show that). Shit people were chanting "Nigel!" when he first came out, everyone knew exactly who he was. This is the same audience that chants for bookers to be fired---they know what's going on behind the scenes, and they know the talent's history. You think TNA fans don't watch ROH? Keep dreaming.

 

[hatehabsforever]

You may be right, X, and you may be wrong, I'm not quite sure. I don't doubt that there's a difference between the typical WWE audience and the typical TNA audience. As you said, the numbers make this point somewhat obvious.

I'm still not convinced that Wolfe was the household name, even to the TNA faithful, that you suggest he was. Let's face it, there wouldn't have to be very many fans in attendance in the Impact zone to be audible enough to hear them chant his name, the place is like a school gymnasium after all. I would respectfully suggest that there was still a significant number of people who didn't know who the hell he was, or at least didn't know much about him, and who were wondering who was this guy slapping Kurt Angle around. They were probably enjoying it, I know I was, but I still think this assault was being perpetrated by a relative unknown.

If what you are saying is correct, it doesn't bode well for the long-term viability of TNA. If the TNA audience is only comprised of smarks, your hardcore wrestling fans, and there's no broader appeal to the casual wrestling fans, then TNA is in a tough position. They'll never compete with WWE if this is an accurate statement.

BTW, you didn't answer my question about the term "smarks."