Shawn Michaels the lowest drawing champion of WWE of all time

[FlairFan2003]

Hogan was one man who carried a company

Austin won the belt at WM 14, two weeks later the WWF beat WCW in the ratings and never looked back, so you could certainly say he was a great draw as champ.

Fact is that HBK wasn't the draw he could have been, same as Diesel and thats wholly down to the fact that they weren't able to act like the heels/tweeners that they were. Nobody was interested in seeing a manufactured babyface Diesel or Shawn and Vince wouldn't get that concept until Austin

It should be noted that Austin only held the belt for a couple months before dropping it at S-Slam, then missed most of 1999 with an injury. A lot of this boom period here where WWE overtook WCW for #1 spot domestically was actually done with Austin either NOT champ or not wrestling at all.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

That is true, but what is also forgotten is that between 1998 and 2001 FIVE new guys not only won the belt but had major runs... Austin started, then Rock, Trips, Foley, Angle & Jericho...

WWE has NEVER managed to create so many talents who were hot enough to take the title and be the champ in such a short space of time EVER... they like to think they did with the class of OVW 2002 but reality is all of them were rushed into the spots to try to recapture that spark. Cena, Orton, Batista all got put to the title too soon and only Cena actually got away with it.

They tried it again with The SHIELD and Wyatt and screwed up again... The reason it worked was that they all had to wait their turn and it was defined - Austin went first, then Rocky, THEN Foley, THEN Trips, and then Kurt and Jericho both got hot enough to take theirs...but they had 4 other bona fide main eventers to work off...

Shawn didn't have that in 1996 and that was one of his biggest problems, he had guys who could have been - had he not been a cock about dropping the title, Davey, Vader, Foley all could have been there then... and they may still have had Bret around too.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Damn, the OP actually beat me to this topic. This was going to be the next thread that I created, but only in the interest of proving a point about what fans think of this certain time period in wrestling history. My next thread will bring it all together.

Honestly, if you just look at the numbers, HBK was a horrible draw as Champion. There's no denying it. Of course there is a lot more that goes into drawing than just the numbers and that's something I've been saying for years, however, when its paramount to someone proving a point none of the other variables ever come into play.

I'm going to prove how hypocritical the IWC really is and that does include many of you that posted in this very thread. It's amazing how often you guys change your arguments. For example, when it's said how bad of a draw HBK and Bret Hart were, its not there fault, it was because of the state of the business at that time and that's something that I accept. However, when it comes to others who were Champion in the same time period, its not the state of the business, its that they were horrible champions.

I can't wait.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Shawn was an AWFUL draw, but not cos business was bad or cos of competition from WCW even. Vince got EVERYTHING about his push wrong, because of his misguided obsession with faces holding the main belt.

Shawn was an inherently unlikeable character and person as a whole, it showed in his attitude in the ring, out of the ring - the fans KNEW he was basically a scumbag and thats what got him over.

Trying to then flip him face off the back of Nash's popularity was almost suicidal, the fans didn't buy "The Boyhood Dream", the fake sincerity... it was one step too unreal for fans of a fake sport to take... Bret was kind of right in his view of "This Guy? really?"

Once he got his heat back and was a proper heel again, guess what, HE DREW... but by then he was too fucked/banged/messed up to carry on. All they had to do was keep him heel and let him have the title in 96... things would have been different.

 

[Emmet]

HBK was a horrible draw as champion, but on the same token he was horribly booked as a champion, much like Diesel was before him. No one bought HBK as the clean white babyface that Vince booked him on TV, had he just been HBK that everyone knew about it would have worked a whole lot better.

The same applies to Diesel, he was so much better when he turned tweener after SSeries '95 than his full year as champion. Vince booked them both awfully. Only Bret could get away with being portrayed like that in the time period.

 

[New Hot Fed]

In many way Shawn and Nash are two sides of the same coin in that they drew poorly but their booking also sucked. (Nash esp. other than Bret had terrible opponants)

At the same time, while being best friends and part of the Kliq, it sort of feel like Nash was that little something that fitted more with the Attitude Era, that badass edge and shades of grey.

Remember that Nash started and experimented that shades of grey gimmick when he was face yet still was attacking Bret and Taker and it was pretty compelling stuff. It clearly was the end of Nash's WWF run. And then he jumped ship and brought all this stuff to WCW to create the nWo and it became a revolution.

It's as if the WWF were not ready to make that turn. And lo and behold all of 1996 was Champ HBK going over everybody as this cheery super-babyface. As if they had not evolved. While WCW were going gun slingers with Nash and nWo. Lucky for Vince he adapted and had Shawn drop it to Sid at Survivor Series. (btw, The Vince of back then would have never tolerated a Cena title run. After all the boos, he would have either turned him heel or fired his ass)

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

In many way Shawn and Nash are two sides of the same coin in that they drew poorly but their booking also sucked. (Nash esp. other than Bret had terrible opponants)

At the same time, while being best friends and part of the Kliq, it sort of feel like Nash was that little something that fitted more with the Attitude Era, that badass edge and shades of grey.

Remember that Nash started and experimented that shades of grey gimmick when he was face yet still was attacking Bret and Taker and it was pretty compelling stuff. It clearly was the end of Nash's WWF run. And then he jumped ship and brought all this stuff to WCW to create the nWo and it became a revolution.

It's as if the WWF were not ready to make that turn. And lo and behold all of 1996 was Champ HBK going over everybody as this cheery super-babyface. As if they had not evolved. While WCW were going gun slingers with Nash and nWo. Lucky for Vince he adapted and had Shawn drop it to Sid at Survivor Series. (btw, The Vince of back then would have never tolerated a Cena title run. After all the boos, he would have either turned him heel or fired his ass)

This part is interesting because I have recently started re-watching WWF product (Raws and PPVs) starting at WrestleMania XI and are now in the middle of 96. While some call Austin's 3:16 promo as the beginning of Attitude, you really see the attitude change from the beginning of 96. Characters like Goldust and Mankind are doing things that where never done on WWF TV before them, Sunny is the tag team divison as the story around the tag titles in 96 is all about her and showing off her body (she changed her outfit before the year started to start showing her off more). Sable hasn't been shoved down the fans face yet but that's coming and its easy to see why and Marlena is being shown on camera more and more.

The interesting thing is that WWE had attitude all over the place, but felt it had to keep Shawn as clean as possible. That is the part of WWF 96 that I have never understood.

 

[Wald]

The interesting thing is that WWE had attitude all over the place, but felt it had to keep Shawn as clean as possible. That is the part of WWF 96 that I have never understood.

Its easily understood because having a white meat babyface as champion is Vince's blueprint for the entire company. It's hard to blame the guy either as he basically banked his fortune and career on Hogan becoming the all-American good guy and it shot him to the top.

I posted this in a thread on Bray Wyatt a few weeks back but it's worth reposting here.

If you look at the figures from when Hulk Hogan won his first WWF world title in 1984 until Stone Cold Steve Austin won his first won in 1998 than you can see clearly Vince's philosophy. In between those two launches of eras a face held the WWF title for a total of 9 years & 8 months, in comparison a heel held the belt for 2 years & 4 months. In that time the likes of Hogan had long runs (4 years, 1 year and 9 months being his three longest), Macho Man held it for a year, Diesel for another and wrestlers like Bret Hart and Ultimate Warrior also held it for multi-month stretches. On the flip side, only Yokozuna had a long run with the belt, clocking in at 9 months from when he beat Hogan at King of the Ring to losing it to Bret at Wrestlemania. Everyone else, from Flair to Slaughter to Michaels & Hart as heels, only acted as 3-4 month placeholders to pass it to a face.

Make no mistake about it. Diesel was positioned as the next Hogan and was giving the full on Hogan push but flopped for a number of reasons. Shawn was next in line with the full on Hogan push but flopped for a number of reasons. Funnily enough, Bret is probably as white meat babyface as you can get but Vince never really saw him as a Hogan type champion who could carry the company so never got the same push.

But you get to Attitude Era WWF and everything we've heard in interviews and documentaries from Vince Russo to Triple H to Mick Foley, Steve Austin, the Rock, Shawn Michaels and so on paints it as Vince not wanting to go in that direction at all but having to be persuaded to by the talent because WCW was destroying them to the point of extinction. Even when WCW was just beating them he refused to go that route and it took them really cranking things up on Vince to force him to do so.

As soon as Attitude is over and the Ruthless Aggression era is passing by what does Vince do though? He goes straight back to a white meat babyface champion with John Cena and a PG product for the company. People always want Vince to 'go back' to Attitude but the truth is that he never wanted to go to Attitude in the first place and that PG wrestling for all the family is Vince's ideal. That's why he stuck with pushing Diesel and HBK as that type of champion for so long.

 

[rmp0012002]

I could see Vince not wanting to do the Attitude Era since it focuses on a certain demographic while the PG style covers many. The Attitude Era saved his company showing he isn't the all knowing. It just happened that WCW wrongly went the PG route at that time.

HBK and Bret were champions in down times so the blame doesn't fall on them. The WWWF/WWF standard for decades was the champion had to be a baby face but one problem with HBK was that the roster and fans knew he was a scumbag and not a face so having someone just be who they really are works best.

 

[Messiah]

Shawn Michaels
Deisel
CM Punk
Sycho Sid.

Worst WWE Champions of all time. Michaels and Nash still made pretty big names for themselves. Other 2 guys fell into obscurity.

 

[beermanaust]

Still WWE try to glorify Michaels, but we all know he wasn't the main guy. I've never seen HBK on a poster or the first picture on any WWE game.

Why? He didn't sell, he didn't draw. He was like Jeff Jarret, but WWE glorified him way to much.