That does not count as a grand slam winner. At the time you would have to win the World, intercontinental, european, and tag team championships to be a grandslam champ. The king of the ring in no way counts. If that counted then the royal rumble would have to count and shawn would be a grand slam champ in 1996 instead of 1997.
Shawn Michaels, and his WWE Legacy
- Thread starter TSG
- Start date
That does not count as a grand slam winner. At the time you would have to win the World, intercontinental, european, and tag team championships to be a grandslam champ. The king of the ring in no way counts. If that counted then the royal rumble would have to count and shawn would be a grand slam champ in 1996 instead of 1997.
Well thing is Michaels is a great wrestler and will go down as one of the greatest, winning or losing matches, his legacy goes with that.
About the Montreal incident, look I am a Hart fan but you have to realize that the freaking situation was out of control and it was a desperate time, so I don't really hold a grundge towards Michaels. The guy puts icredible performances every time so titles or not, he is One great wrestler.
About the Montreal incident, look I am a Hart fan but you have to realize that the freaking situation was out of control and it was a desperate time, so I don't really hold a grundge towards Michaels. The guy puts icredible performances every time so titles or not, he is One great wrestler.
reddevil69
Getting Noticed By Management
Why don't you learn to read? the Euro strap did not even exist until 1997 therefore it doesn't count during that era. And Bret won all of those belts you mentioned twice...and I have several WWE ppv's from that era where you can clearly here Jim Ross or Vince himself state in plain English that Bret was the first grandslam winner in WWF history. Please get you facts straight.
And I said that Shawn did in 1996 upon winning the belt, he just was not the first to do it , Bret was and he held that distinction for three years, so Shawn cannot now or ever have the distinction of being the first guy to do it, that is an irrefutable,uncontestable fact.
just because Bret Favre broke Dan Marinos records doesn't mean that for the nearly 20 years he held them they didn't exist...it meant something to millions of fans at the time ..you don't erase the accomplishment once it's been broken.
His legacy is going to be that of a guy that took his second opportunity in the business, and ran with it. What HBK has managed to do with his career since his return in 2002 is legendary, and makes most people forget about the selfish prick he was prior to that. The HBK from this decade has earned the title of what of the greatest in ring performers of all time, without question.
As said in this thread, if his career ends in 1998, the perception is much different. Many people will always hate HBK for what he did in 1997 (I just don't include the screwjob, as if you have read anyting on HBK in 1997, you know the entire year was about his ego). I personally can't stand the man for his Kliq incident self promoting b ullshit in the Garden.
So it's a tale of two heartbreak kids, whichever you chose is up to you.
As said in this thread, if his career ends in 1998, the perception is much different. Many people will always hate HBK for what he did in 1997 (I just don't include the screwjob, as if you have read anyting on HBK in 1997, you know the entire year was about his ego). I personally can't stand the man for his Kliq incident self promoting b ullshit in the Garden.
So it's a tale of two heartbreak kids, whichever you chose is up to you.
Carolina dude
Dark Match Winner
This thread just shows how overpraised HBK is.And the guy did not "steal the show" at Wrestlemania 21,22 and 23.Three massively overrated matches.
There's been better Ladder matches than Razor/HBK and the first Hell in a Cell
match isn't the best.
HBK is one of the most overpraised wrestlers ever online.
HBK cheerleaders never give his opponents credit.
HBK was also kissing men on the lips and posing for playgirl.
There's been better Ladder matches than Razor/HBK and the first Hell in a Cell
match isn't the best.
HBK is one of the most overpraised wrestlers ever online.
HBK cheerleaders never give his opponents credit.
HBK was also kissing men on the lips and posing for playgirl.
I can pretty much agree with you on Wrestlemania 22 (best match for me Edge VS Foley) and 23 (Taker VS Batista), but have got to admit that his match with Angle at WM 21 stole the damn showand probably the one closest was the first MITB match. Of course Shawn would have never acomplished that with out Kurt Angle as opponent but still.
About Austin, well no, Austin repesented more than just middle fingers and that is why the attitude era is atributed to him. He repesented the common man who works hard and sometimes gets shafted by the powerful man or his boss, Austin represented a complete opposite person to HBK who represented a spoiled prick riding in limos and with a freaking 7 foot Bodyguard in Diesel.
One thing is to rebel yourself againts autority because they can't touch you and another is to rebel because you won't take crap from anyone no matter what the repercusions would be.
All in all he is a great wrestler, not the best but a great wrestler,by no means he was the one that started the attitude era. Actually the WWE really started at Wrestlemania 13, the foundation was at KOTR 1996 with Austin Speech but it really started at WM 13 when it all changed, THe good guys fell from grace and the bad guys became the anti-heros everyone started to cheer for.
About Austin, well no, Austin repesented more than just middle fingers and that is why the attitude era is atributed to him. He repesented the common man who works hard and sometimes gets shafted by the powerful man or his boss, Austin represented a complete opposite person to HBK who represented a spoiled prick riding in limos and with a freaking 7 foot Bodyguard in Diesel.
One thing is to rebel yourself againts autority because they can't touch you and another is to rebel because you won't take crap from anyone no matter what the repercusions would be.
All in all he is a great wrestler, not the best but a great wrestler,by no means he was the one that started the attitude era. Actually the WWE really started at Wrestlemania 13, the foundation was at KOTR 1996 with Austin Speech but it really started at WM 13 when it all changed, THe good guys fell from grace and the bad guys became the anti-heros everyone started to cheer for.
tapey1brad
Dark Match Jobber
I love Shawn Michaels haters.
I respect the opinion of wrestlers, when talking about wrestling, more than most others. To a man Shawn is consistanly named as the best ever from bell to bell. He is mentioned in shoot interview all the time. Sure they bash him for being a prick, but they all end up saying something along the lines of "he was an asshole, but he was always the best in the ring." Flair said he's better than he was and that's good enough for me.
I've never seen anyone that is always good other than Shawn. He isn't always great but he is always good.
Even Angle admitted Shawn was the only guy he could have a match that good with.
In regards to what if he hadn't hurt his back, we are probably luckly he did. He was spinning out of control and may very well, by his own admition, be another wrestling tragedy.
I respect the opinion of wrestlers, when talking about wrestling, more than most others. To a man Shawn is consistanly named as the best ever from bell to bell. He is mentioned in shoot interview all the time. Sure they bash him for being a prick, but they all end up saying something along the lines of "he was an asshole, but he was always the best in the ring." Flair said he's better than he was and that's good enough for me.
I've never seen anyone that is always good other than Shawn. He isn't always great but he is always good.
Even Angle admitted Shawn was the only guy he could have a match that good with.
In regards to what if he hadn't hurt his back, we are probably luckly he did. He was spinning out of control and may very well, by his own admition, be another wrestling tragedy.
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
Actually, I think this thread shows you're in the minority. Shawn is an amazing wrestler and is known as Mr. Wrestlemania for a reason.
Name one.
That match wasn't about Shawn, it was about the Undertaker and Kane. Shawn is remembered for winning the match, but anyone watching at the time knows what it was really about.
Not really, his popularity seems to have decreased lately with the ever so boring "He's old" comments.
HBK Cheerleaders? I like that. And on the contrary his opponents are often mentioned. However, when most people mention their favourite WM matches, often we have "Shawn Michaels vs...." Shawn Michaels vs...." What's the common factor there? Shawn Michaels. So unless you're arguing every one of Shawn's WM opponents have made those matches great..
Yes, yes he was...
Shawn Michaels is one of the best wrestlers of all time. With ease, he will be a hall of famer no doubt. He's had so many great matches and so many memorable feuds, one would have a tough time trying to actually rank them. He redefined the wrestling industry and has made so many legendary moments in his career. He carried the company and made a difficult choice that I think we'd all do if we were in his boots and he came back from an injury nobody ever thought he'd return from. He is more than an icon, he's a legend.
Carolina dude
Dark Match Winner
Actually, I think this thread shows you're in the minority. Shawn is an amazing wrestler and is known as Mr.Wrestlemania for a reason.
My opinion isn't wrong just because I'm in the minority.
So big deal if most folks get wet around here when watching HBK.I think many of his matches get annoyingly overrated and that's all that matters.
Yes,he's known as "Mr.Wrestlemania" but that's all hype to me.
Name one.
Easy.
Benoit/Jericho
MITB from WM 21
There's two.
That match wasn't about Shawn, it was about the Undertaker and Kane. Shawn is remembered for winning the match, but anyone watching at the time knows what it was really about.
Uh...okay?
And Brock/Taker is better.
Not really, his popularity seems to have decreased lately with the ever so boring "He's old" comments.
Maybe but I still see a lot of praise.
HBK Cheerleaders? I like that. And on the contrary his opponents are often mentioned. However, when most people mention their favourite WM matches, often we have "Shawn Michaels vs...." Shawn Michaels vs...." What's the common factor there? Shawn Michaels. So unless you're arguing every one of Shawn's WM opponents have made those matches great..
His opponents contributed just as much as him in those "classic" matches of
his.That's what I'm saying.
Yes, yes he was...
No wonder he got booed against Sid,huh?
My opinion isn't wrong just because I'm in the minority.
So big deal if most folks get wet around here when watching HBK.I think many of his matches get annoyingly overrated and that's all that matters.
Yes,he's known as "Mr.Wrestlemania" but that's all hype to me.
Name one.
Easy.
Benoit/Jericho
MITB from WM 21
There's two.
That match wasn't about Shawn, it was about the Undertaker and Kane. Shawn is remembered for winning the match, but anyone watching at the time knows what it was really about.
Uh...okay?
And Brock/Taker is better.
Not really, his popularity seems to have decreased lately with the ever so boring "He's old" comments.
Maybe but I still see a lot of praise.
HBK Cheerleaders? I like that. And on the contrary his opponents are often mentioned. However, when most people mention their favourite WM matches, often we have "Shawn Michaels vs...." Shawn Michaels vs...." What's the common factor there? Shawn Michaels. So unless you're arguing every one of Shawn's WM opponents have made those matches great..
His opponents contributed just as much as him in those "classic" matches of
his.That's what I'm saying.
Yes, yes he was...
No wonder he got booed against Sid,huh?
russyruss21
New Member
Actually, on those DVD's the said he was the first to win a triple double(2 time World, IC and Tag). I never even heard of a grand slam winner until One Night Only. Before that they mainly went by Triple Crown winners b4 the Euro title was introduced.
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
I stated you were in the minority, I didn't say that automatically meant you were wrong.
And I think he's a great wrestler who completely deserves all credit and praise.
MITB? Really? I don't have a clue why you think that is anywhere near as good, I truly don't.
But you're not going to be happy until everyone hates him or says he's boring.
But what I'm saying is that the common factor in all those classic matches is Shawn. Yes, Angle gave just as much in the WM21 classic, Taker gave just as much at WM25. But it's always Shawn who is having these classics with a random opponent, which points to the fact Shawn can have classic matches with many different people, and which is why he gets so much credit; not for individual matches, but for the entire body of work.
My mind went at HBK playgirl..there it goes again.
TheBigCheez-It
Making ankles snap since 1998.
Amen, he is a highly talented worker who puts on amazing clinics of matches with his opponents.He deserves most of the credit in my opinion.
-TheBigCheez-It-
dangerduck2
Dark Match Jobber
Give him the World Heavyweight Championship on Smackdown. Let him complete his legacy by helping the future stars get over. Specifially, John Morrison & DH Smith!!! Morrison is already a mini-shawn, so imagine a HBK's stable with HBK, Morrison, and with rivals such as Jericho, Harty Dynasty & The Miz. That'd be official!
I personally thinks it's easy. He should be remembered as the greatest in-ring performer the business has ever seen. With the criteria that most use to "rate" such things, I don't know how it can be denied. When JR puts someone at the top of his list I do not argue. He was an innovator who put his entire life into the business so much that it almost led to his own downfall. What I personally will remember him for most is the way he has re-wrote his legacy since his 2002 return. We have all heard it before. Let's face it, Shawn's legacy would be completely different had he not ever returned. He would still be remembered as the, "that guy is an asshole, but he was always the best." I feel as though he has overcome Montreal, he has overcome his dickness of the 90's, he has overcome the majority of his ego, and he has placed himself among, literally, about three or four guys.
reddevil69
Getting Noticed By Management
uuughhh...it was said, I have the videos to prove it...Bret Hart was referred to as the first grand slam winner....shall I FedEx them to you?
Hulkamaniac
Vote Hogan, Savage, Rocky and Thesz
The esteemed Jim Cornette once said this about HHH:
I think the same applies to Shawn Michaels. He is great in the ring, but he never was a great solo draw, and there's a reason. He's kind of like Randy Savage in that way, but less of a draw. He's more the foil for the big draw then the actual draw.
I think the same applies to Shawn Michaels. He is great in the ring, but he never was a great solo draw, and there's a reason. He's kind of like Randy Savage in that way, but less of a draw. He's more the foil for the big draw then the actual draw.
dionlyone18
Pre-Show Stalwart
Well going by legacy wise...i say Hbk might go down as one of the hardest working men of the wwe....see in my eyes i see every generation has that one big star..from hogan to Hbk to rock to cena ( you might not like it but its true) hbk is that one guy you could call on for the big match and know hell throw it all on the line for that highlight reel. no matter if hes 24,34,44..every werstlemania he has been a part of left me in awe..i mean one of my fav hbk maina moments was at wrestlemania 19 before the match hbk came out and look like he never missed a beat.i mean honestly it took me back to 1998 just his aura the dancing, him being hype the whole match and making history with y2j..who also had one of his best matches. thats the legacy of shawn micheals..look at his opponents..he can change wrestling style for anyone..wheter its high flying with mysterio or submission with angle of ground and pound with cena and hhh or classic wrestling with bret hart. granted his last few years hes looked pretty pitiful and kinda sad but i know without a shadow of a doubt hbk is first ballot in the hall of fame...theres always those stars that you know are great but non compare to hbk...when everyone jumped ship to the dubya c dubya he took wwe/f and put it on his back wrestling hour long matches and going all out. so as far as leagcy goes i say ....hbk will have his own wing in the hall of fame....bar none
HatchetMan84
Pre-Show Stalwart
I want to know how long you have watched the WWE. And I am not insulting you, but i am just wondering. Because I am 25 years old, have watched the WWE solidly since the early 90's, and i remember full well the kind of draw HBK was, and still is.
When Vince was losing the Monday Night Wars, Shawn practically carried the WWF on his back, and literally broke his back for the company that made him.
Shawn headlined all the major PPV's from late 95-98, and even when he came back after 2002, he's still been as Mick Foley put it "the guy who puts asses in the seats".
I think Shawn's WWE legacy is secure...
Just on the facts alone that his work is unparalleled, that 99% of the time works the best match on any card (including every Wrestlemania he's been in since #10), and that he's been in at least half of the top 25 matches of the last 20 years in WWE, I would have to agree with Jim Ross when he says that Shawn is only 2nd to Ric Flair as the best ever. Vince McMahon says he has no peers. Vince is right. And I would say that Shawn's in-ring work was even better than Flair's, that he was the very best in that department, and I would also say that in-ring work is the most important thing, that if you're going to go down as the best in one category, that'd be the one. Shawn just didn't have the total package like Flair did to be the very best ever.....but Shawn's definately the best Vince ever had.
Shawn Michaels is the Showstopper, the Headliner, The Mainevent! Shawn is the wrestler that everyone pays to see make a magnificant match. From the Rockers, to The kliq and DX, to his back injuries, his returns and now, HBK is the best at what he does in the ring, and that is give the fans a match they want to see. He's overcomed career threatening injuries and comes back 100%. It doesn't matter if he is 24 or 44, he always makes great matches at Wrestlemania, or any PPV at that. He was the companies first grand slam champion. He's the first guy to win the Royal Rumble entering #1. He wrestled in the first ever 60 minute iron man match against Bret Hart for the WWE Championship. He revolutionised the ladder match at Wrestlemania 10 alongside Razor Ramon. And ever since Shawn returned from his back injury in 2002, he has made the best matches at Wrestlemania, from Chris Jericho to Chris Benoit to Triple H to Kurt Angle to Mr McMahon to John Cena to Ric Flair to The Undertaker, Shawn never disapoints in his matches. And this year, I'm sure that HBK will triumph uver the Undertaker and defeat the streak 17-1! HBK