Shane Douglas/VKM what happened?

[klunderbunker]

What happened was Shane Douglas wasn't that talented. I have never seen a guy that floated more on one single moment more than Shane Douglas. He was good back in 1992 with Ricky Steamboat, but who in the world isn't good with the Dragon as their partner? In 93 Shane threw the belt down and for some reason people said it was a big deal, but the NWA Title hadn't meant jack in years.

After that, what did Shane Douglas do that was of note? He was the world champion of an indy company for a long time and ranted about how people held him down and talked about how great he really was, and that's about it. What did he do in WWF? He had a bad character that went nowhere, much like many other people in the WWF in that era. Then he went back to ECW, held the world title for a long time again, talked about how great he really was, then went to WCW when things were falling apart. Once that company went under, he's worked indies, been in TNA for some totally forgettable run, and other than that he's been trying to get fans to pay for some ECW nostalgia. But the ONLY reason he hasn't come back to WWE is some grudge Vince has.

No. At the end of the day, Shane Douglas is an ok wrestler who could talk decently, but he's famous for doing one thing and he coasted on it for years. Shane Douglas didn't come back to WWE because there were more talented guys around instead. Look at his time in TNA. He was there because his name was Shane Douglas, not because he was especially talented at the time.

 

[Zack Morrison]

In my opinion Shane Douglas is the best main eventer that never happened. Its not like Curt Hennig where he was plagued by injuries from 92 onward. It just never happened. God knows why, regardless in my humble opinion he is undoubtedly the greatest ecw heavyweight champ in history. 2nd best talent from ECW after RVD.

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

What happened was Shane Douglas wasn't that talented. I have never seen a guy that floated more on one single moment more than Shane Douglas. He was good back in 1992 with Ricky Steamboat, but who in the world isn't good with the Dragon as their partner? In 93 Shane threw the belt down and for some reason people said it was a big deal, but the NWA Title hadn't meant jack in years.

After that, what did Shane Douglas do that was of note? He was the world champion of an indy company for a long time and ranted about how people held him down and talked about how great he really was, and that's about it. What did he do in WWF? He had a bad character that went nowhere, much like many other people in the WWF in that era. Then he went back to ECW, held the world title for a long time again, talked about how great he really was, then went to WCW when things were falling apart. Once that company went under, he's worked indies, been in TNA for some totally forgettable run, and other than that he's been trying to get fans to pay for some ECW nostalgia. But the ONLY reason he hasn't come back to WWE is some grudge Vince has.

No. At the end of the day, Shane Douglas is an ok wrestler who could talk decently, but he's famous for doing one thing and he coasted on it for years. Shane Douglas didn't come back to WWE because there were more talented guys around instead. Look at his time in TNA. He was there because his name was Shane Douglas, not because he was especially talented at the time.

KB is wrong once again about ECW. Shane Douglas was the best heel in wrestling in 1996(behind NWO of course). He got a shitload of heat, and put on several excellent matches that you probably have not seen. Hell I just recently watched an episode of ECW tv where Douglas took up the first 30 minutes with an awesome heel promo that I myself have never even seen, so I doubt you have seen it either. He had some interesting things to say about Ric Flair. I love Ric Flair, but I've always found their rivalry interesting.

Douglas vs HBK fued in 96 would have been awesome.

KB just hates ECW with a blind rage passion, so naturally he would hate it's Franchise.

 

[klunderbunker]

KB is wrong once again about ECW. Shane Douglas was the best heel in wrestling in 1996(behind NWO of course). He got a shitload of heat, and put on several excellent matches that you probably have not seen. Hell I just recently watched an episode of ECW tv where Douglas took up the first 30 minutes with an awesome heel promo that I myself have never even seen, so I doubt you have seen it either. He had some interesting things to say about Ric Flair. I love Ric Flair, but I've always found their rivalry interesting.

Douglas vs HBK fued in 96 would have been awesome.

KB just hates ECW with a blind rage passion, so naturally he would hate it's Franchise.

As usual, you're a blind ECW fanboy.

He was such a great heel that he didn't even win the world title. Yeah that's REAL high quality stuff there.

You mention great matches he had that year. What great matches would those be? Who were they against? My bet would be on people that are established talents in the ring who carried Shane for the majority of the match, as did the other people in any other match he had.

As for a 30 minute promo, it says a lot about ECW that they would use half of an hour long show on a single promo.

As for Flair, there is no rivalry. Flair, who is an overrated guy to begin with, is so far out of Shane's league there isn't even a bad joke for it.

Save your fanboyism for another time, please?

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

Save your fanboyism for another time, please?

Where is the fun in that? I'll debate you all day long. You are just an irrational hater. We are the perfect match.

Douglas wasn't the top heel in ECW in 1996 because he didn't have the world title?!?!

Ok man. Its all scripted bro. You can say whatever you want about somebody carrying him, but a good match is a good match, and Shane had plenty of them in the ring in ECW in 96. Nobody drew more heat than Shane Douglas in ECW in 1996. ECW fans who have actually seen the stuff already know this.

 

[klunderbunker]

Where is the fun in that? I'll debate you all day long. You are just an irrational hater.

Douglas wasn't the top heel in ECW in 1996 because he didn't have the world title?!?!

Ok man. Its all scripted bro. You can say whatever you want, but Shane could go in the ring in ECW in 96, and he was the best heel in the company. ECW fans who have actually seen the stuff already know this.

I've seen quite a bit more ECW than you give me credit for.

As for the fans giving him heat, the fans in the ECW Arena cheered for the guy that wiped the sweat off the ropes. ANYBODY could get heat or a personalized cheer or anything from an ECW crowd. It's like using an argument of "he's over in the Impact Zone". If he's as great as you're making him out to be, he should have been able to get over in the WWF. But no, someone in ECW couldn't do ANYTHING wrong or bad ever right?

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

Who drew more heat than The Franchise in ECW in 1996? Tell me, please?

He couldn't get over in WWF because of:

1. Terrible gimmick. The Dean. Equiped with his very own wooden paddle named "The Board Of Education"

2. The Clique ran the show.

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He should have toughed it out, and he could have made something of it, much like some other guys did that got stuck with terrible gimmicks at first(*caugh, caugh, Ringmaster, caugh*).

 

[klunderbunker]

Who drew more heat than The Franchise in ECW in 1996? Tell me, please?

He couldn't get over in WWF because of:

1. Terrible gimmick. The Dean. Equiped with his very own wooden paddle named "The Board Of Education"

2. The Clique ran the show.

[youtube]x1h1WKFK4mk[/youtube]

He should have toughed it out, and he could have made something of it, much like some other guys did that got stuck with terrible gimmicks at first(*caugh, caugh, Ringmaster, caugh*).

You used Austin and Shane Douglas in the same group of people? You lost the little credibility you may have had.

As for the bad gimmick:

Dolph Ziggler - Cheerleader
Undertaker - Mortician/Zombie/Demon
Austin - Ringmaster
Rock - Plucky Young Guy
Foley - Hippie

I could go on but you get the point. People can work through bad gimmicks if they have the talent. Shane was thrown out and ran back to the only place that he ever had success in. But of course that's Vince and Flair's fault right? Paying no attention to the fact that Flair had about zero power in WCW in 96 anyway.

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

First of all you put the Undertaker's gimmick on the same list as those? You have also lost what little credibility you had with me, my ECW hating friend.

Best gimmick ever.

Actually Austin's early Stone Cold had quite a bit in common with Shane Douglas' Franchise character in ECW. Both of them were bitter about being treated wrong in the industry, and both refused to kiss anymore ass or take any more shit.

Flair didn't run the show at WCW in 96, but he did in 93 when Douglas was run out of town.

I know you just hate ECW KB, thats ok. You can have your opinion, and I'll have mine. I know you have some sort of strange grudge against the promotion, and you don't really know what you are talking about when it comes to the subject of it. You can say whatever you want about Shane's WCW/WWF runs, but Douglas had a great run in ECW, and in 96 he was one of the top heels in Wrestling, let alone ECW.

 

[klunderbunker]

First of all you put the Undertaker's gimmick on the same list as those? You have also lost what little credibility you had with me, my ECW hating friend.

Best gimmick ever.

Flair didn't run the show at WCW in 96, but he did in 93 when Douglas was run out of town.

I know you just hate ECW KB, thats ok. You can have your opinion, and I'll have mine. Douglas had a great run in ECW, and in 96 he was one of the top heels in Wrestling, let alone ECW.

Actually Austin's early Stone Cold had quite a bit in common with Shane Douglas' Franchise character in ECW. Both of them were bitter about being treated wrong in the industry, and both refused to kiss anymore ass or take any more shit.

An undead zombie is an awful gimmick. Look at the first episode of ECW on Sci-Fi. Callaway has the talent to make it work.

Except Austin had, you know, talent. You even implying Austin was below Shane in 96 is hilarious.

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

An undead zombie is an awful gimmick. Look at the first episode of ECW on Sci-Fi. Callaway has the talent to make it work.

Except Austin had, you know, talent. You even implying Austin was below Shane in 96 is hilarious.

You calling Undertaker's early Deadman gimmick terrible is hilarous. Thats just crazy talk now.

Austin had a hell of a heel run in late 96, but overall Douglas was the better heel throughout the year. Just my opinion. Austin's late 96 heel work is among my favorite of all time absolutely, but Douglas got way more heat, oh, but ECW fans are stupid. You are just irrational sometimes with the ECW hate.

Austin's Stone Cold gimmick wasn't really all that good until Hitman came into the picture. I wouldn't argue that Austin was the better wrestler that year, but Douglas was the better heel overall in 1996, in my opinion.

But aren't we digressing from the original argument. The argument you made about Douglas being shit even in ECW? Hmmm, I think somebody was wrong about ECW.....

Again.



Plus, Foley didn't enter the WWF as Dude Love, he came in as one of the best characters in the history of WWE, Mankind. The Rock was juiced in(family).

 

[donfryeismyhero]

If I remember correctly, it was going to be Benoit, Malenko, Saturn, Guerrero, Douglas and two or three of the more popular luchadores who jumped. In the end it was only the Radicalz who did so.

If I remember correctly, Rey Mysterio was one of the luchadors that was talked about on WZ at that time to possibly be leaving with the Radicalz for the WWE but Konnan ended up talking him out of it.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Shane Douglas was meh. So much hype and such a letdown. I really enjoyed ECW, it was bad for professional wrestling and especially professional wrestlers in the long run, but I found it extremely entertaining in it's time. I just didn't understand what all the hype was over Douglas, he just came off as a guy that yelled a lot. I much rather have watched Dreamer, the Pitbulls, Awesome, Raven, Sabu, Taz, Candido and Bigelow at that time. Douglas just seemed old, tired, angry, and most importantly not very entertaining.

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

I wouldn't defend Douglas' work in the ECW's pay per view years, but he was great in ECW before he first left for WWE. You have to ask yourself why would the WWE have signed him in the first place? The reason was that he was great on the microphone in ECW. You would have to dig through the weekly hardcore tv episodes in 95 to really understand that he really was one of the best guys in the industry at the time on the microphone.

When he came back to the ECW in 1996 he was in "I'll Show Them" mode. He packed on quite a bit of muscle, and went on one hell of a run as a heel. I'll put that heel run up against anybody else that year. Was he better on the microphone that Austin in 96? Not really. Was he better in the ring that Austin in 1996? No, but his overall work in the ECW in 1996 as that "Franchise" heel character outdoes what Austin did as The Ringmaster for most of 96 for sure. The early days of the Stone Cold heel were quite awesome, and I wouldn't argue against that character being the better heel, but I would disagree based on what I've seen.

Pretty much just a matter of preference, but I would take The Franchise over NWO, and Austin in 96 as the best overall heel for the year. He could go in the ring, and he had it on the microphone.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for KB's opinions, especially when it comes to WWE/WCW, but he is blinded with some sort of vendetta when it comes to ECW pretty much. Douglas wasn't ever near Austin, or Taker's level of talent, but he was very talented in his prime. The problem was that his prime was a small little window that you probably missed if you blinked. I agree with KB that he should have worked through the terrible political situation, and the crappy gimmick like some others have. If he had just toughed it out a bit longer the Clique was pretty much gone in a couple of months after he left.

To get an idea of how good Douglas was in ECW in 96 you would really have to go through the weekly episodes of Hardcore TV to really understand what exactly I'm talking about as far as his heel work is concerned. He fell off pretty hard starting in 97 through the pay per view years, but he was pretty good in 95-96 by ECW standards. Whether or not you put much value on ECW standards that is an entirely different discussion, but you can't just say he floated through his career on one or two things he did in 94(throw the belt down like KB said).

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