From reading the majority of your response to my initial post in this thread, it's clear you missed the entire point of my post.
first of all you say you are not going to debate on why kenta should lose because you dont know enough about him, if you dont know enough about him you shouldnt be voting.
On this one point I will concede to you here. You are probably right in that I shouldn't have voted in this matchup. And in matches where I wasn't very familiar with a wrestler, I tried not to vote in that matchup. Hence why I will probably not vote in the Rock/Mitsuharu Misawa matchup, as I know far more about the Rock than Misawa, but I respect Misawa's accomplishments and legacy on wrestling enough to not just blindly vote for the Rock. However, Bret Hart is one of my favorite wrestlers, and is one of the greatest in-ring performers I have ever seen. This is a case where I like Bret so much I will vote for him in every matchup, whether or not I'm familiar with the opponent. Bret is one of my favorites in this tournament, and I will do everything I can to see he advances unless he runs up against someone who I know and honestly feel is greater (like Flair, Hogan, Andre, Stone Cold, etc.). I am certainly not the only person who has voted for a favorite whether they were familiar with their opponent or not, and I'm sure I won't be the last person to do so. Everyone in this tournament has used biasedness to vote in certain matchups. In fact I happened to come across this little nugget from yourself in the Hulk Hogan/Triple H thread....
i mean ive voted for a couple of people that probabley wouldnt have won because i like them more.
Now yeah, your reasoning for your biased vote had a different circumstance then what I did in this matchup, but either way both of us have been baised in our votes for certain matches just as everyone else here has.
So sorry to the Kenta fans, but I'm not going to just stand aside and not support one of my top choices for the tournament. If Kenta had been against a lesser opponent, I may have sat on the sidelines, but not when it's against Bret Hart.
So you're probably right in your post on that one point, but the rest of your post is accusing me of stuff that's just not true at all....
next you talk about how its bullshit to use the five star ratings when you say you havent seen kentas mathces. if you had of watched them you would realize he does deserve every single one of them.
Hmmm. Way to be redundant there buddy. I already stated in my initial post that I'm sure Kenta deserved the 5 star ratings for his matches and that most of the Japanese wrestling matches that Dave Meltzer has given 5 stars to probably deserve them as well. But just in case you missed that part, let me point it out for you.....
Not to discredit Kenta and his 5 star matches. I'm sure they're great matches and deserve the 5 star ratings.
I'm not discrediting Kobashi or Japanese wrestling as a whole. It deserves the praise and credit it gets,
That's two occurances where I gave respect to Kobashi and Japanese wrestling. So quit trying to make me look like a blind, ignorant Bret Hart and WWE fan. All you're doing is showing that you're not reading my posts properly and completely misinterpreting the points I made in my post.
My argument against Dave Meltzer's five star ratings list was not meant at all to be a knock against Kobashi or Japanese wrestling. The whole point of it was to express that trying to use that list as an example of why Kobashi is better than Bret Hart is just not a fair or credible argument. I am sure of the fact that Bret Hart has put on more than 2 five star matches in his career. I'm sure Kobashi deserves the 25/26 or whatever the number is 5 star matches he has been given by Dave Meltzer, but Bret Hart deserves far more than just two five star matches. It's a bullshit support. Because Dave Meltzer is very biased against the WWE and really American wrestling, and that's the point I was bringing. So using his list as evidence that Bret Hart isn't as good as Kenta Kobashi is just not sound at all.
Don't use Dave Meltzer's list of five star matches as reasoning that Kenta Kobashi is better than Bret Hart. Use your own list of 5 star matches. (I'm speaking generally here, not directly to you just to spell out for you) If you give Kenta more 5 star matches than Bret Hart, than cool. Kenta has put on better matches in your opinion than Bret Hart. That's all I was arguing. Dave Meltzer is just not a credible source for this argument. He's very biased towards Japanese wrestling and never gives WWE or American wrestling in general the credit it deserves.
and then you go on to list all the wwe matches you think deserver them. well two of the matches you listed did get them so you shouldnt bitch about them not getting five stars. one of them was bret harts vs owen. in fact bret has had two five star matches, the same amount you listed so dont complain about how many brett has, when kenta has rightfully earned more when you even say he probly deserved them.
Here is the list of matches I put in my initial post. All are matches that DIDN'T get a 5 star rating and are matches that I feel deserves them. And for shits and giggles, I decided to also list the ratings that Dave Meltzer gave them....
Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlemania III) (1987) ****1/2
Randy Savage vs. The Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania VII) (1991) ****1/4
The Royal Rumble match (1992) ***3/4
Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog (Summerslam 92) (1992) ****1/4
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (Wrestlemania X) (1994) ****3/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (Ladder Match) (Summerslam 95) (1995) ****3/4
Owen Hart vs. The British Bulldog (WWF Raw) (1997) ****1/4
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit (Royal Rumble 2003) (2003) ****3/4
Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar (Iron Man Match) (Smackdown) (2003) ****1/4
Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H (Triple Threat Match) (Wrestlemania XX) (2004) ****1/4
Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania 21) (2005) ****3/4
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker (Wrestlemania 25) (2009)****3/4
In case you're wondering where I got those ratings from, here you are....
http://starratingslist.blogspot.com/2009/09/wwe-observer-star-ratings-1986-present.html
Did any of those matches get 5 stars like you claim they did? Ummmm no, they did not. And they are all deserving of 5 stars not only IMO but I'm sure plenty of other people here on the group would agree. Once again nice try in trying to make me look like a stupid poster who doesn't know what he's talking about. You failed
The four WWF/E matches that have gotten 5 stars are the following.....
Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (Wrestlemania X) (Ladder Match) (1994)
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (Summerslam 94) (Cage Match) (1994)
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIII) (1997)
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker (In Your House: Bad Blood) (1997)
Where you messed up on your post was with the first two matches. You obviously didn't notice which particular matches I said should have gotten 5 stars and which ones actually did. Bret and Owen did indeed get 5 stars. But it was their Summerslam 94 Cage Match that got 5 stars, when I put their Wrestlemania X match on my list of matches that should've got 5 stars.
And you were obviously thinking of the first Ladder Match at Wrestlemania X as the HBK/Razor match that got 5 stars. Indeed it did. But I didn't put that one on my list. I put their 2nd Ladder Match at Summerslam 95 on my list.
So yeah it looks like you're the one that isn't doing their research. Next time you want to chew me out and try to make me look stupid, make sure you have your facts straight.
Nitpicking aside, once again the reason I brought that list up was to further prove my point that Dave Meltzer is not a credible source in judging WWE matches nor Bret Hart matches. And to further prove my claim that he is obviously biased against WWE and American wrestling at large. I'm sure many people here would agree with at least most of the matches I listed being deserving of 5 stars. So the fact that he gave Kenta Kobashi 23 or whatever 5 star matches and Bret Hart only 2 5 star matches doesn't really matter worth a damn if you ask me.
And I'm not the only person who feels that way as I've already gotten positive rep from 3 people on this post I made.
As for the other half of that particular passage of your post, yes Bret Hart has gotten 2 five star matches according to Dave Meltzer, but I feel as I'm sure many others here do feel that he deserves far more. I'm sorry but the fact that Kenta Kobashi has gotten more 5 star ratings from Dave Meltzer than Bret Hart just isn't a credible argument to me in the idea of Kenta being a better wrestler than Bret. It just isn't. It's one guy's opinion. And the opinion of a guy who is the biggest Japanese wrestling mark on the planet and who has always had a strong bias against the WWE. So yeah I will bitch about it, because it's just not right. And it's not a credible argument against Bret nor for Kenta. Which once again, was all I was pointing out in my post.
and most of your post is complaining about dave meltzer, but im willing to bet that most of us who voted on kenta because we have seen how great he is not we were told he was. and ill let it be known now that i love bret harts work and was willng to give him a chance to earn my vote but the fact is kenta is better and nobody proved that wrong.
And I only pointed out two particular arguments against Bret Hart that I had a problem with. Tdigle's use of quotes from Ric Flair's book, and the argument that Kenta has more 5 star matches according to Dave Meltzer than Bret Hart. I agree that pretty much all of the posters here put up excellent arguments for Kenta and I had no problem whatsoever with. I have tons of respect for just about everyone here. I know this is a group of wrestling fans who know their shit and I respect just about everyone's opinions.
Once again my post was not an anti Kenta post, which seems to be what you're trying to turn it into. I never had anything against Kenta nor anyone that voted for him. My statements at the end of my post in which I talked about why people should vote for Kenta were general statements and statements to anyone that might vote in the future. It wasn't a reflection of the people that already voted for and posted about Kenta on here. I can tell that the people that posted on the thread in support of Kenta know their shit and had good reasons for voting for Kenta.
I never once in my post tried to persuade people not to vote for Kenta Kobashi. I never even tried to get people to vote for Bret Hart. I only pointed out two arguments against Bret Hart that I thought were crap arguments. Simple as that.
Your accusations of me in your post simply hold no relevance to anything my post was about at all.
and next time you really should do some research instead of just voting for who you no more about, thats just being ignorant.
And you should actually read my posts carefully and comprehend what I'm talking about before responding back.
Oh, and when trying to point out flaws in my posts and making me look stupid and like I don't know what I'm talking about, perhaps some research beforehand would do you some good as well.